Hi, according to your info, the shawnee Trail could have been near Waco. I suspect there were 2 or more trails, but some misinformed journalist said the Roebling suspension bridge in Waco was finished in tome for cattle to cross on the Chisolm Trail. Why would they cross unless they planned to go up the Bosque and East Bosque , past Chalk Mountain and up the Paluxy then to Mineral Wells or due west. - the Stevens Ox Cart route, and possibly used by Rocky Martin after the Chidester Stage Fort Worth to Yuma, Arizona stopped running. These Freighters loaded at Elm Mott or Ross Railroad freight depot. Also, some drove calm cattle across the suspension bridge a few years ago They were not happy campers at first- did you ever try to cross a high wood bottom bridge with a horse or a cow, with holes between the planks a pencil fell through? I don.t think they did , unless they had a "Judas Goat" type steer. Col. Charles Goodnight used a boss lead steer on 5 or 6 cattle drives to the newest Kansas Depot at the time and drove him back to the Yellowhouse Canyon, and retired him there. When the rail were extended to Colorado City and the town east of it , Goodnight nd others on High plains started driving south not north , across the High plains, still unfenced Also, why did Indians leave Goodnight Cattle alone? Could it have been that when he saw Quannah Parker and men dressing one of his steers in the Palo Duro Canyon. He stopped and to Quannah Parker guns,&told him he knew his mother Cynthia Ann Parker and he knew the buffalo were gone, so eat his steers but don't waste any? It this tale is true, do you suppose that Quannah Parker's band passed the word that they would protect Goodnight Cattle from unreasonable slaughter from other Tribes. ? hey, why we just stop and write our own books? Take care, Charles A. Wyly On Mon, 21 May 2001 07:52:45 -0500 "Coffee" <j.coff@verizon.net> writes: > These cattle trails in Texas must have been called various names > at > various times and apparently the State Historical Society does not > monitor > their roadside markers. According to a roadside marker, The > Shawnee Trail > ran north from the Austin, Texas area through Dallas to Coffee's > Trading > Post on the Red River and on through Oklahoma to Dodge City Kansas. > There is > a roadside marker in Frisco,Texas on Hwy. 289 (Preston Road), just > north of > SH-121 that indicates the route of the Shawnee Trail. The Chisholm > Trail ran > through Comanche County according to the roadside marker on Hwy-67 > just west > of Comanche, Texas. Most historians agree that the Chisholm Trail > only ran > through Oklahoma starting at Doans Crossing. Doan's Crossing is > located on > the Red River north of Vernon, Texas. According to some historians, > The > Texas Trail started in south Texas and ran north through what is > now > Gillispie, Kimball, San Saba, Coleman, Callahan, Shackleford (Ft. > Griffin), Throckmorton, Baylor Counties and connecting to the so > called > Chisholm Trail at Doans Crossing in Wilbarger County. > > In 1870, The Western Trail started at the Texas Trail at > Thrickham, > Texas in Coleman County and went due west through John Chisum's > Texas > ranching operations east of Paint Rock, Texas to San Angelo and > on to > Pecos, Texas. The roadside marker on US-83, north of Paint Rock, > Texas > indicates the ranching area of John Chisum before he moved to New > Mexico > and was involved with Billy The Kid and the Lincoln County War. I > don't > recall how he was involved in the Lincoln County War. Billy The Kid > worked > for him at some point in time. I don't think Chisum was to involved > in the > war. > > At Pecos, the Western Trail turned north through New Mexico to > Colorado. The small community of Trickham, Texas was a supply point > for the > drovers that were starting to Chisum's ranch on the Western Trail. > The town > got it's name from a store keeper named Cheatham. He watered down > his > whiskey and sold it to the cowboys. He was the first person in the > world to > put flour in cotton sacks rather than in barrels, in order to > increase his > profits of the sale of flour to the drovers and make it easier to > carry > flour on the chuck wagons. Keys Crossing on the Colorado River was > the > westernmost dry weather cattle crossing of the Colorado River in > 1870. It > is located just southeast of Trickham near Indian Creek, Texas. > Many > outlaws and gun fighters hid out in the area around Keys Crossing, > waiting > for the cattle drives to come through. They would join the drovers > and offer > their guns in the range wars in the counties that the drive would > pass > through to the north. The land along Western Trail was not opened to > farmers > in the 1870s. > > In the 1870s the fence cutting range wars were common between the > drovers > and the farmers as they fenced the land in the counties along the > Texas > Trail. A Texas Ranger captain named Ira Aten joined the cattle > drives near > Keys Crossing as a undercover officer to find out who the gunmen > were and > make arrests later after the gun battles. One of the largest gun > battles was > northwest of Brownwood, Texas near the Brown-Coleman County line. A > gun-hand named Harlow was the leader of the drover's gunfighters. He > was > arrested by ranger Ira Aten. > > Jerry Coffee > > > -----Original Message-----a.om: Barbara Vaillancourt > <Valcourt@dfn.com> > To: Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com <Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:52 PM > Subject: Re: [SouthernTrails] Chisum Trail > > > >Charles, There is a Chisum trail that run or ran through Roswell, > New > >Mexico. The City just put up a big statue of John Chisum. Barbara > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Charles A. Wyly <wyly1@juno.com> > >To: <Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:21 PM > >Subject: Re: [SouthernTrails] Chisum Trail > > > > > >> Hi, Jim > >> > >> I think the info below is in Southern Trails or Txerath-L > archives. > >> > >> I have found 4 jesse- John Chisolms- chisums. . One in an older > >> generation was a John Chisolm, an U.S. Army officer from > Tennessee.I want > >> to find more on him, but he had a distinguished record. i do not > know the > >> connections- if any in Anglo or Indian ancestors. > >> > >> 1. Jesse or John Chisum of Broken bow, Oklahoma and there is a > historic > >> marker for him near Broken Bow saying he was a farmer- rancher > who drove > >> his and some neighbors cattle across Missouri to Illinois- the > Chicago > >> market and an early railhead- before Refrigeration but not much. > This > >> one is buried in Oklahoma. His mother was Cherokee. > >> > >> 2. Jesse Chisolm-- half Choctaw laid out the Chisolm Trail- one > source > >> said from Red River north. Another said from Yukon, Okla. to his > Kansas > >> store. He ox carted freight from Oklahoma City area to his store > south of > >> Abilene, kansas, centrally located as each new rail head opened. > He also > >> ox carted food and supplies to Indian Reservations to the north > and West. > >> There is no record of him driving any cows but his milk cow at > his Store. > >> > >> > >> The Texas Trail, sometimes called the Chisolm Trail through Waco > was > >> planned by an enterprising man who was planning the trail at one > end and > >> working with the Railroads to have a certain number of Catle to > Abilene, > >> Kansas by a given date. It should be the McCoy or Texas Trail. > Texas > >> Trail was on older maps- but I think evidence points to two > trails > >> through Waco- one from South Texas to the Oklahoma Chisolm > Freight trail > >> and one from East Texas across the low water crossing at Rock > Creek near > >> Gholson, then west to the Concho Valleythrough Bosque or Erath > County > >> with stocker cattle driven by #3 to dip and fatten before > hitting the > >> Goodnight - Loving Trail to Colorado and Wyoming pastures, > Indians and > >> Army posts. > >> > >> #3- John Chisum half Indian of Denton County and later the Concho > >> Valleypast San Angelo. Now, this man is NOT the same man as the > John or > >> jesse Chisum of Broken Bow, Oklahoma, > >> This man drove cattle from Denton County up the Oklahoma Chisolm > Trail, > >> confusing a lot of cowboys and secondary source writers . He also > drove > >> them across the High Plains to the Rio Grande then north during a > wet > >> spring or down the Goodnight- Loving Trail to Pecos then across > to the > >> Rio Grand and up to Colorado. These routes would allow cattle to > fatten > >> on the way, compared to East Texas piney woods. > >> > >> Some in Keller- Southlake- Saginaw area say an Indian or mixed > woman > >> cooked for this Chisum's chuck wagon and he left her and 2 sons > Denton- > >> Tarrant county acerage. They ran stores there until they died. > Other > >> reports say one branch of Goodnight- Loving Trail from Parker- > Tarrant > >> County down the Goodnight- Loving Trail. When the train came to > Colorado > >> City, trail drives ended there- Upper end of the Concho valley. > .I talked > >> to an 80 year old man in Meridian, Texas about 20 years ago who > said he > >> drove cattle with John Chisum of San Angel as a teenager. Does > that > >> time fit? Some of this trail crossed Erath County at one timefrom > >> Weatherford,,Texas. and it makes sense they would have driven > East Texas > >> cattle from Waco across Bosque County through Cranfils Gap to > Lampassas. > >> then Concho pastures, depending on rain and new fences. > >> > >> Would have driven cattle from Waco up the rough country to > Ranger- Strawn > >> area, or would have driven them on thw west side of the Brazos > and cut > >> across Erath County up to the Brazos via the Bosque River- the > latter is > >> several miles shorter and easier travelling. Kuykendall land and > Cattle > >> of Clifton drove cattle on these trails and later used Diesels to > carry > >> East Texas cattle to Wyoming summer pastures , especially during > a dry > >> year in Central Texas. > >> > >> #3 was the one that Lonesome Dove Movie was copied after, not the > Jesse > >> Chisolm or the one from Broken Bow. Both #1 and #3 did work the > Red River > >> Valley drives at about the same time. Try telling all this to a > Waco > >> Chamber of Commerce worker- I did and don't confuse them with > truth. > >> > >> Take care, Charles A. Wyly > >> > >> J. Frank Dobie and Walter Prescott Webb list all the above > Chisums- > >> Chisolms. Some books in Waco school libraries combine legends > from > >> secondary sources into 2- sometimes 1 man. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, 19 May 2001 11:41:21 -0500 Jim <coach@Hillsboro.net> > writes: > >> > My Great Grandfather, Andrew Jackson Davis, passed along many > tales > >> > of > >> > his days herding cattle north out of Texas on the old Chisum > Trail. > >> > "Jack" and his brother, George Washington Davis, were first > rate > >> > working > >> > cowboys who made many trips driving cows up the Chisum to > markets > >> > further north. They lived in Navarro Co, Texas and later George > >> > moved > >> > with his family to the area around Tolar, Texas. There were > many > >> > obstacles to face along the trail in those days, including > Indians. > >> > Jack > >> > Davis said that one night, while camped out in Indian > territory, he > >> > "rubbed chewing tobacco in his eyes" so he would not fall > asleep > >> > while > >> > guarding the cattle. Another time he found a man hanging from a > >> > tree. He > >> > rode into the nearest town and went into the saloon to ask for > the > >> > sheriff, to report that "there is a man hanging outside town". > Three > >> > men > >> > inside slowly turned and stared at him but said nothing. Jack > >> > immediately figured that the hanging was none of his business > and > >> > slowly > >> > backed out the door, got on his horse, and rode back to the > safety > >> > of > >> > his friends at their camp. > >> > He was also the "veterinarian" who was called on by any > neighbors > >> > who > >> > had animals in need of medical attention. If a cow was > "bloated" > >> > from > >> > eating too much clover, Jack knew just where to insert the > knife to > >> > "let > >> > the air out". > >> > When he got old he continued to wear his white hat and white > >> > handlebar mustache. > >> > Jim > >> > > >> > > >> > ============================== > >> > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to > the > >> > #1 > >> > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > >> > > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > >> > > >> > >> > >> ============================== > >> Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to > the #1 > >> Source for Family History Online. Go to: > >> > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > >> > >> > > > > > >============================== > >Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & > Celebrate > >your heritage! > >http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > > > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com >