Hi, Since George W. Bush's Crawford is called a Ranchette by New Yorkers who never did a day's work on a ranch, this is a good question. Most of us in Erath County thought 1000 acres was a fair sized ranch- but if it was plowed up , clear cut, and farmed, like the Texas High Plains and McLennan County cotton and Milo farmers and dairymen have a problem getting financed with less than 1000 acres of cotton , corn or Milo, or less than 700 to 1000 cows from Wisconsin, sometimes on less than 500 acres of land In Texas usage, a farm is a ranch cleared and plowed up. My brother in law at Levelland, Texas worked 1000 acres of Cotton at one time- most irrigated. It was farm land, but some of it in 1900's was part of the Slaughter Ranch, .The one who sold it for farm land was George and Janice Wyly Slaughter of Fort Worth and Roswell. , N.M. Texas definition of a ranchette is 20 to 100 acres worked by a man who works a 40 hour job in town, and his wife cuts hay and feeds cattle or works in the Courthouse or a local ,plant. He usually has a pickup or 2, a 4 wheel Yamaha or Junker car to feed with, and the kids help with daily choires asftger they ride the bus home or drive one of the family cars noit needed that day. then go play high school football or Little League. Some of Grandad's Uncles in Georgia had the Beverly Plantation and another or two. After the war, they returned to Habersham County Mountains and several left for Texas. The Neely Plantation west of Jackson Miss. in Louisiana was one of the larger ones in the area and James Grady and Fred Wyly, his son, still owned much of it near Lake Providence. & Talula, La, . I d not know the acerage, but the modern tractors and equipment have eliminated the need for a large work force. The farms would close in 1 year if they were supporting as many as lived on the land in Plantation days. 100 acres of tobacco was a sizeable farm. with nuch hand labor, 2 or 3 people with modern equipment can handle a thousand acres or so of wheat or Milo (The hip high Hybrid Maize) and, with his own combine, may follow the harvest north as time allows as some of the family care for the home place. Texas and Georgia peanut farming has always been more labor intensive 200 acres of peanuts in 1960 would make a family a good living, if the rain and harvest were synchronized. Financing a crop of feed or turkeys or Broilers today has cost some their farm in one year. Take care, ] Charles A. Wyly On Fri, 18 May 2001 21:50:03 EDT Dgreen909h@cs.com writes: > Charles, or anyone that knows!! > > What does the word 'Plantation" mean? How large does it have to be? > Would it > compare in size to a Texas farm or ranch?? > > Family tradition called the Pledger home in GA a plantation. I have > a copy of > the land deed when it was sold, dated 1864 and recorded 1867.(I > don't > understand the delay.) And, the combined acreage was only 300-400 > acres. > > Family tradition also states that when the Pledgers moved to TX they > moved > off and left the plantation, without selling it. So much for family > tradition!! Of course, this was right after the Civil War. Times > were hard. > > Will enjoy hearing your comments. I fear I've exposed my ignorance!! > (grin) > again! > > Thanks, > Dortha McElroy Greenlee > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library >

Hi, if he knew the Indian Trails and backpacked or pack puled the trails, the shortest way to asheville, North Carolina, then Cherokee, N.C. , through the Newfound Gap then the general path of the Apalachian Trail and the Park road into Gatlainburg, Tenn. then Knoxville (White's Fort ) or Watauga, then into Kentuckyand in to Bristol, Ky. We have driven this route from Knoxville south and it is not =reccomended for trucks. Folks in Kentucky and Tennesee said it was easier to go well over into North Carolina on Interstates , then South to Clarkesville- Toccoa Georgia Route. That way, they would have crossed Walton's Ferry- if it was active , at Toccoa. Thijis was friendly Cherokee country. Another route may include the Cumberland Gp or several single path Indian trails from Knoxville East or Southeast , where the Scottish Masons walked into Holston to build Dr. J,G. M. Ramsey's father's house. Any of his books from first hand experience would help you, Also, when British Episcopalians owned all the coast line on the Atlatic, they offerred the Scottish Presbyterians and friends the land between them and the Mountains as a buffer zone to protect the cities like Charleston from Indian raids. All your ancestors on the Coast back then have their records in the Episcopal Churches., mostly Charleston . Scotch- Irish and German records are in one of the two Mecklenburg County courthouses, if they didn't burn in one small fire. In 1760's the president of Greeneville College, Tenn. Hezekiah Balch, rode his horse to Duncan Creek Presbyterian Church, , S.C. near Newbury. He ordained new Elders. My ancestor John Copeland was already an Elder. He told them the "Evils of Singing Isaac Watts Hymns and anything but the Psalters ( Psalms). " Greeneville College is now Tuscullum . Dorcas Balch, his Daughter married Robert Wyly of Tennessee . Cleveland Geneaology of 1899 says Robert and his father in law founded the college with John Sevier and William Blount as Trustees. I am sure all these used narrow trails a lot, known only to them, Indians, and Longhunters. My Great Grandmother 8 timesback, Jemima Cleveland Wyly (Col. Ben's daughter - a Coffee grandchild, ) , later married Evan Eddards or Evangelist Edwards and they and several children were walking through the Cumberland Gap in 1796 with John Hall and others and were ambushed by Indians. Evan Edwards was killed and scalpped. Jemima's son,age 12, later to be Ga. Militia General James Rutherford Wyly, contracted to "Build " the Unicoi Turnpike( Wiley's Road on some maps) from Tellico, Tenn to Toccoa Ga. , where he built a 2 storyTraveller's Rest Inn in abt 1812- 18 at the intersection of the Stage run from Charleston to Clarkesville and a third branch to Atlanta.This is now a Georgia State Park. His Uncle Alfred Henderson Wyly, youngest of Robert and Dorcas Balch Wyly, was the Capt. Alfted Henderson Wyly with Cpl. Balch and 2 other Balches, who led East Texas Redlanders to join old Tenneseean Gen Sam Houston at \Groce's Crossing the day before they defeated Santa Anna at San Jacinto. Their names are on a plaque in the theatre room of the San Jacinto Monument, and I suspect they and some "New Orleans Greys" enterred Texas near Fort Jessup,La. where Gen. Taylor was well established. on El Camino Real- the Old Spanish King's Hioghway from Natchitoches, La. to Nacodoches, Texas on to San Antonio. Check a newer Road Map and /or Atlas- it is a safe bet that the early wagon trails followed a path nearby, just like Old Hwy 80, the Bankhead Highway, never is far from I-20. We jojed about what makes the Smoky Mountains smoky was those Flatland foreigners burning their truck brakes up going through the Cumberland Gap. Don't miss the view from the Pinacle. Sorry I rambled, but perhaps the trails of my ancestors may overlap some of yours. If they were like my dad, He hated driving back the same road he went when out sightseeing. Take care- happy Hunting, Charles A. wyly On Fri, 18 May 2001 14:08:13 EDT JavaKittee@aol.com writes: > Knowledgeable listers, if a family were in S.C. about 1744 and by > 1800 were > in KY., what would be the like path they would have travelled? I'm > thinking > there couldn't have been more than a few ways to get from S.C. to > KY. at that > time but I have not been able to find anything. Thanks for any > help. > *paulette* in SunnyFlorida/researching: > Tanner-Newton-Wilkens-Glover: > SC-NC-KY-MO-ILL > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & > Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog >

Hi Southern Trailers! This is somewhat off topic, but I need the input of so many knowledgeable history experts..lol.. I'm trying to determine at what year parents would have begun to name their sons for George Washington and would there have been any reason before the American Revolution for him to be known to the population, and therefore become a namesake? And it that respect, what would have been the earliest year his name would have become known? And I too, enjoy the stories, so please don't stop. Melanie, maybe we should consider renaming this list the Southern Trail Tales...<g> Thank you for all of you, this is a great list! Linda

Knowledgeable listers, if a family were in S.C. about 1744 and by 1800 were in KY., what would be the like path they would have travelled? I'm thinking there couldn't have been more than a few ways to get from S.C. to KY. at that time but I have not been able to find anything. Thanks for any help. *paulette* in SunnyFlorida/researching: Tanner-Newton-Wilkens-Glover: SC-NC-KY-MO-ILL

Hi, I live in Central Texas, but visited South Carolina in 1990's on two occasions. My grandparents and beyond lived in Old Laurens District- Clinton, Greer- Greeneville, S.C. The Hipps (Hepp) there were descended from the North Carolina "Dutch Fork Hipps- 3 Hipp Brothers from Germany stopped long enouth in England to get a land grant from the British King. Look for descendants of Stephan or Stefan Hipp family tree posted in Ancestors.com or Rootsweb. One Charles Madison Hipp marred Sarah Copeland- my Great Granpasrents from Clinton, S.C. and moved to Arkansas where other Hipps lived . According to one advertising page the Do It Best Hardware- or HWI of Arkansas is the largest Haredware store in the world, including the Internet. Apparently the first HWI True Value lumber and Hardware store in Arkansas was started by a Hipp family. I do not know the connection, if any. One John Copeland was settled on Duncan Creek , S.C.before 1760 and was a Presbyterian Elder. - my ancestor way back 8 or more Generations. Take care, Charles A. Wyly On Thu, 17 May 2001 05:38:50 EDT Hippee547@aol.com writes: > Since you live in Calhoun County,SC--would you happen to know any > history of > the Smoak family of St. Matthews?--I have an uncle Eddie Smoak > there--I live > 55miles away in Lexington Co. > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the > #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB >

Dear Folks, Our Rees family went from DE to SC (Spartanburg) in 1745+/-. In 1790+/-, after two grandpas fought in the War and an uncle, as an attorney, helped pick the site for the first Spartanburg Co. court house (the three attys needed a jug of whiskey to fire their imaginations at the spring site), we went to KY (Christian and Trigg Cos), from there, in abt 1813, a bunch of us moved to So. Ill. in and around Perry Co. Rees Creek in Du Quoin is named after the family. I would love to know more about trails, routes, conditions, dates, etc. Rod Rees of Idaho is the most knowledgeable Rees re our early history. I will bcc him with this email. N D Rees From: JavaKittee@aol.com Reply-To: Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:08:13 EDT To: Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SouthernTrails] re: S.C. to KY. Resent-From: Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:08:32 -0700 Knowledgeable listers, if a family were in S.C. about 1744 and by 1800 were in KY., what would be the like path they would have travelled? I'm thinking there couldn't have been more than a few ways to get from S.C. to KY. at that time but I have not been able to find anything. Thanks for any help. *paulette* in SunnyFlorida/researching: Tanner-Newton-Wilkens-Glover: SC-NC-KY-MO-ILL ============================== Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate your heritage! http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog

In 1916 my grandparents traveled from Choccolocca Alabama to near Grandview TX (Watts Chapel) via covered wagon but they put at least one large trunk containing clothing on the train at Choccolocca (Calhoun County Alabama) for the trip to Johnson County, TX. Cleburne TX is where I am thinking the trunk was sent to be picked up and am wondering if Mr. Wyly or anyone might be able to verify that Cleburne was the nearest train stop to Grandview in 1916. (I am from this area). My grand parents were very poor and left AL hoping to better themselves in TX and I know it must have been very difficult to get the money for this trip. Traveling in a covered wagon with children 4 and 2, and my grandmother six months pregnant - I can't even imagine how hard this must have been in the heat of a TX summer. Also, Mr. Wyly have you any idea of the cost of shipping a clothing trunk via train in that time period? Thanks and I enjoy all your posts - fascinating! Jeri Coppock Maserang

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Don't forget, Railroads began to be part of the migration routes by 1850 but it took a little more money to put your worldly belongings in a Box car and get a seat for each family member. My wife's dad, Alvin Norman Riley married Fannie Ash in Cleburne, Texas about 1920 and they took a box car to Big Spring, Texas with their worldly possessions.His mother and step dad, Mr. Spence and Alice Marie Renfro and Mr. and Mrs. Ash all died in his home after living their "Retirement years " in his home with his 7 kids. Actually, no one retired - they found easier tasks dependint on health. All could care for milk cows and chickens and drive wagons while younger folk gatherred corn and Milo heads with a knife. Cattle were moved by rail before then, but windmills and irrigation made it possible to move west to Ranch land. When he moved to Levelland, Texas from Arkansas there were no rural roads, just wagon rut trails and Levelland had no courthouse. Now it has a Junior College. He used his team and equipment to help build the foundation for the court house. This would give him Tax exemption on his farm that year. In 1920's farmers in Erath County could pay their taxes by helping build bridges or county roads, or pay them in cash. My wife's grandad James Whitcomb O'Riley left Ireland about 1850 , age 12 and the Captain signed him on as a Tinker (Sheet Metal Aprentice . as children under 21 could not immigrate without parents. Also, the Orphan Trains from Eastern cities were moving orphans west and stopping at towns , where childless families would look them over and meet them and adopt them Some were little above a slave, but many found loving homes, and felt important and often assumed their Parent's last name. Now that could make a Geneaologist climb the wall distinguishing their birth family from their adopted family. Take care, Charles A. Wyly On Thu, 17 May 2001 19:59:07 EDT CHASMID@aol.com writes: > Sandy, I'm afraid that that story was the only one that I have any > basis for > knowing the route that they took. And that was because several > people from > the Hempstead Co., AR Historical group got out several years ago > before some > of these people died and got them to tell the stories. > > Another of my ggrandfathers left Georgia and went to Arkansas and I > can only > conjecture which route he took and how they traveled. Within a year > after > they left GA, (I know the approximately time because one of my aunts > said > that her father was three when they left) they were in Bosque Co., > TX, which > is west of Waco. Four or five years later they were in Hempstead > Co., AR > where his only daughter was born. One of his sons settled in > southern LA. > Did they travel through LA on the way to TX? Maybe. But I have > recently > found that his wife's father was in Hempstead Co., about the time > they left > GA. Did they travel through AR on the way to TX? I'm afraid that > all the > one's who could tell me that are no longer around and I didn't ask > them when > they were here. > > For those who still have someone to ask, ask. > > Charles > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & > Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog >

I briefly mentioned my family that went to Texas. Here are the details that I know. This family was Stephen Bryant Davenport and his wife Annrietta, their 7 year old son Clarence and members of Annrietta's family...the Radneys. Some of her brothers went with them to Texas. Clarence was born in 1867/68, so I figure they left Columbus, GA about 1875. Clarence later told one of his daughter's that he remembered walking beside the wagon. That is all I know. Have no idea how many wagon's were involved but I would imagine there were SEVERAL. Any one know this family? Thanks, Sandy Granmommy Jeremiah 29:11 Quixtar Independent Business Owner Future Resident of the Old Genealogists Home, best kept secret in America.

Hi, Dortha, Ever hear of Boyd Pledger of Harris Creek development and South Bosque River between Waco and McGregor? His construction company built the oldest completely air Conditioned Mall in Texas- Lake Air Mall, whis will leave Goldstein Miguel and level the rest to build a strip center of larger stores. The owner also bought the Old HEB Super Store and are converting it to a Branch Waco library and mall. The oldest Semi enclosed mall and strip center- WestView Mall at Waco Drive and Valley Mills Drive is going full occupancy.It was coverred and the back entrance was closed at night, with stores on both sides. When Cox's anchor store closed, Peter Piper Pizza game and party and dining room moved in. These Coxes were from Stephenville and also had a Fort Worth Store, still open. If your family came from Georgia to Texas by boat, they could have floated past Augusta in the Savannah River, or loaded on the Georgia Gulf of Mexico ports. They probably avoided going all the way around Florida . They were of better than average financial condition. Great Great Great Grandmother Liza Tuggle, mom of Dr. Hatchett of the Bosque Valley and Selden came that route about 1900. Take care, Charles A. Wyly On Thu, 17 May 2001 21:24:00 EDT Dgreen909h@cs.com writes: > Some of my family came from Chattooga Co., GA to Hill Co., TX. A > relative of > mine that lived with our grandmother, who was a young girl when they > came, > stated that Grandma told her they came by boat all the way to TX. > I've > wondered about their route. Our grandmother was Eliza Jane Pledger > McKinney. > Her parents were Wesley Pledger and Eliza Abagail Hamilton. Several > Hamilton > and Pledger families came with them. > > They came about 1866 and Wesley Pledger died in 1868 in Hill Co. I > understand > he is buried at Covington, TX. > > Do keep the stories coming Charles, we enjoy them. > > Sincerely, > Dortha McElroy Greenlee > > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 >

Some of my family came from Chattooga Co., GA to Hill Co., TX. A relative of mine that lived with our grandmother, who was a young girl when they came, stated that Grandma told her they came by boat all the way to TX. I've wondered about their route. Our grandmother was Eliza Jane Pledger McKinney. Her parents were Wesley Pledger and Eliza Abagail Hamilton. Several Hamilton and Pledger families came with them. They came about 1866 and Wesley Pledger died in 1868 in Hill Co. I understand he is buried at Covington, TX. Do keep the stories coming Charles, we enjoy them. Sincerely, Dortha McElroy Greenlee

Sandy, I'm afraid that that story was the only one that I have any basis for knowing the route that they took. And that was because several people from the Hempstead Co., AR Historical group got out several years ago before some of these people died and got them to tell the stories. Another of my ggrandfathers left Georgia and went to Arkansas and I can only conjecture which route he took and how they traveled. Within a year after they left GA, (I know the approximately time because one of my aunts said that her father was three when they left) they were in Bosque Co., TX, which is west of Waco. Four or five years later they were in Hempstead Co., AR where his only daughter was born. One of his sons settled in southern LA. Did they travel through LA on the way to TX? Maybe. But I have recently found that his wife's father was in Hempstead Co., about the time they left GA. Did they travel through AR on the way to TX? I'm afraid that all the one's who could tell me that are no longer around and I didn't ask them when they were here. For those who still have someone to ask, ask. Charles

Charles, Please do not stop writing your stories of the trails. They are so wonderful and educational. My familles that went west from Georgia did not leave any idea of which trail they used but they ended up in Mineola, Texas. I think that is in Wood County. They left out of Columbus, Georgia. I look forward to your postings, please don't stop. Thank you, Sandy Lunsford Granmommy Jeremiah 29:11 Quixtar Independent Business Owner Future Resident of the Old Genealogists Home, best kept secret in America.

I look forward to reading Southern Trails, the information is wonderful. Keep the history rolling along. Thanks JC

My father died at 87 years of age of emphysema . He smoked unfiltered since he was 14 years old. It finally killed him. JC -----Original Message----- From: Genealogy Research Mail <genealogyresearch@prodigy.net> To: Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com <Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, May 17, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [SouthernTrails] Wagon makers >Keitha, > >My great-grandfather Strickland was a coach painter, and his sons worked >with him. He was also a photographer for a time. A couple of his grandsons >became house painters. They liked working outside. One of them, my Uncle >Bob, was very artistic. He toyed with being a photographer for a bit, but >went back to painting to be outside. He was an artist at his work, though. >He had repeat customers and continued painting up until less than a year >from his death from lung cancer in April of this year at the age of 78. (He >just wouldn't quit smoking.) > >Carole Colquehoun >Genealogyresearch@prodigy.net > >I am not a professional genealogist (by any means). > >Searching: >Allaman, Breedlove, Broaddus, Calhoun, Carr, Garland, Lowry, Meekins, >Mullicane, Noble, Overton, Parr, Sanders, Scott, Strickland, Stump, Webster, >Winston, Wright >England, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia > >Hansen, Jensen, Larsen, Milewski, Pedersdatter, Soerensen >Denmark, Germany, Nebraska, Poland > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <KKirk6@aol.com> >To: <Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, 16 May, 2001 10:48 AM >Subject: [SouthernTrails] Wagon makers > > >> Good afternoon, I just read Carole's story and thoroughly enjoyed it!! >> >> I just found out yesterday, my ggggrandfather, Rev. Andrew Jackson West, >was >> a wagon maker here in Calhoun Co. in 1860. Had other things to do today >so I >> wasn't able to get more information. >> >> I know he was from Spartanburg, SC and may have been in GA for a short >while >> because the AL 1860 census has his daughter Sally as being born in GA >about >> 1858. His oldest daughter, born about 1856 has that she was born in SC. >> >> His parents may have been William and Margaret White West. I have not >done >> this research, just told this by a cousin. He also, may have had a >brother >> named John Pinckney West that was also a minister and moved to AL, also. >I >> am told the rest of the family stayed in SC. >> >> Hopefully, in the near future, I will have a great story to share. Until >> then, I will continue to enjoy the ones I get now from all of you. >> >> Keitha Kirk >> Calhoun Co., AL >> >> >> ============================== >> Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate >> your heritage! >> http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog >> > > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

Keitha, My great-grandfather Strickland was a coach painter, and his sons worked with him. He was also a photographer for a time. A couple of his grandsons became house painters. They liked working outside. One of them, my Uncle Bob, was very artistic. He toyed with being a photographer for a bit, but went back to painting to be outside. He was an artist at his work, though. He had repeat customers and continued painting up until less than a year from his death from lung cancer in April of this year at the age of 78. (He just wouldn't quit smoking.) Carole Colquehoun Genealogyresearch@prodigy.net I am not a professional genealogist (by any means). Searching: Allaman, Breedlove, Broaddus, Calhoun, Carr, Garland, Lowry, Meekins, Mullicane, Noble, Overton, Parr, Sanders, Scott, Strickland, Stump, Webster, Winston, Wright England, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia Hansen, Jensen, Larsen, Milewski, Pedersdatter, Soerensen Denmark, Germany, Nebraska, Poland ----- Original Message ----- From: <KKirk6@aol.com> To: <Southern-Trails-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 16 May, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: [SouthernTrails] Wagon makers > Good afternoon, I just read Carole's story and thoroughly enjoyed it!! > > I just found out yesterday, my ggggrandfather, Rev. Andrew Jackson West, was > a wagon maker here in Calhoun Co. in 1860. Had other things to do today so I > wasn't able to get more information. > > I know he was from Spartanburg, SC and may have been in GA for a short while > because the AL 1860 census has his daughter Sally as being born in GA about > 1858. His oldest daughter, born about 1856 has that she was born in SC. > > His parents may have been William and Margaret White West. I have not done > this research, just told this by a cousin. He also, may have had a brother > named John Pinckney West that was also a minister and moved to AL, also. I > am told the rest of the family stayed in SC. > > Hopefully, in the near future, I will have a great story to share. Until > then, I will continue to enjoy the ones I get now from all of you. > > Keitha Kirk > Calhoun Co., AL > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog >

In a message dated 5/17/01 4:41:57 AM Central Daylight Time, Hippee547@aol.com writes: > No, I live in Calhoun Co., AL. Andrew was from SC.

Since you live in Calhoun County,SC--would you happen to know any history of the Smoak family of St. Matthews?--I have an uncle Eddie Smoak there--I live 55miles away in Lexington Co.

In a message dated 5/16/01 8:08:32 PM Central Daylight Time, wyly1@juno.com writes: > That may well be worth looking into. According to a story in the Calhoun County Heritage Book, several of John Pinckney West's children moved to Texas. It doesn't state where or what they did. Keitha