Whoooaaa! I have read some articles, I believe in National Geographic magazine, regarding the Basques of our country as shepherds in Wyoming and Idaho... but I didn't know that they were receiving preferential treatment... as seperate ethnic groups? ************************************* Charles Wyly wrote: "The Rocky mountain Sheepherders with horse drawn camper wagons were Basque- often mistaken for Gipsies. Boise,Idaho is the largest Basque city in theU.S. and was settled by Basque sheepherders or descendants. and Over 1/2 ,some say 2/3 of Colombus's sailors were of Basque ancestry. and They are now part of the Wichita >Reservation based on linguistics and lifestyle. " And then Jim Brown wrote: "is 50% Basque. He is the grandson of an Idaho sheep herder. Believe it or not, he is entitled to preferential treatment under the Civil Rights and Affirmative Action programs of the Federal government, since he is considered "Hispanic"! ************************************************ Does this mean that these Basques, arriving in the US ca. 1490's, have gradually assimilated into both the Hispanic and Native American groups... and are receiving benefits as such? What about all the poor Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Germans, etc? Karla ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Hi, I must have been tired- the 8 th graders were wild that day. I meant to say a Courtney of Blevins, Texas , near Eddy and Cego and Troy , Texas. Now, we have another mistery: Why was the community named Blevins , where Jesse James died, and you or others reported that a Blevins family was in Grandbury about the time J. Frank Dalton- headstone says Jesse James- what was the connection of the Blevins families to the two Jesses, or was it the same man? Don't see how he could have 2 graves Another E mail this week has family records of the James Gang staying on her familiy's ranch, and this one has not been published. as the Texas Co-Op Power titled one of my letters- "Jesse here, Jesse there, Jesse everywhere. All these claims may have been a front to hide a third real identity- of other gang members. Take care, Charles Wyly On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:14:32 -0500 "Charles A. Wyly" <[email protected]> writes: >A Blevins of Eddy, Texas, north of Temple in Falls County says her >grandad at Blevins, Texas was jesse James and she has a photo of >Jesse's Choctaw mom with one arm missing, exactly like the on in the >Missouri museum. Texas Dept of Public safety labs in Austin examined >the photo and other items closely. This is in a new book and all her >cousins say they know the story but do not want Mr. Courtney's body >disturbed. This has been reported in issues of Texas Co-Op Power >members and suscribers magazine. The Austin labs say the photo has not >been tamperred with and even the print on Mrs. James's dress was a >perfect match to the Missouri Photo. > >a Frank James settled in South Bell County and 80 yeatr old men in our >church used to hunt on his land > >According to the Courtney researcher, eye witnesses said the body >exhumed in Missouri was lying face down in the coffin and the only DNA >missouri evidence came from a tooth of jesse's buried outside his >childhood home, not his grave and the corpse was the wrong size for >Jesse. a St. Cloud Minn, prof published a book about 1994 proving the >claims of his gang that he was not at Northfield Bank Robery as 2 of >the men were drunk enough to smell, one so drunk he fell. Jesse was a >businesman who did not work with drunks. The Mr. Courtney would >entertain guests by riding his horse full speed across the yard and >shoot an alarmed chicken's head off for extra meat for supper. > >One book written last year said Jesse onced visited Brushy Bill >Roberts of Hico, Texas AKA William Roberts raised as William Bonney by >his McCarty aunt and Billy's dad rode with Jesse and the Youngers >after the Civil War. According to this book Jesse and Brushy Bill >visited Cooney Caverns at Lake Whitney Brazos Bluff. They used torches >and sparklers to scare snakes back. There was supposed to be one >rattler over 12 feet. I never saw one more than 7 feet. Later, a >fishing camp operator displayed Spanish and early American coins from >the cave, but refused to return. A New Mexico judge refused to pay Pat >Garret an award for shooting Billy Barlow in the back and burying him >as Billy Bonney or Roberts. The judge said he had personal knowledge >that Billy was still alive. Marshalls and friends in Arizona said >jesse had visited Billy in an Arizona after his death.d in the >Tombstone Epitath. I knew this Billy in the 1950's. Visit the Hico >Billy the Kid Museum and study the court records closely before you >follow the Lincoln County story. Lincoln County actors performed their >version in an outdoor Hico theatre. > >If you believe theMissouri James story, you probably think the TV >Unsolved Misteries story of John Wilkes Booth showing up at Hico, >Texas. He was red headed, and had a broken and infected leg. He was >hunting a Dr. McNeil (My mom's first cousin by marriage was Dr. >McNeil's granddaughter in Stephenville. This red headed man served bar >in Grandbury about the time Jesse James was there and died in the >Grand Hotel, Enid, Okla., now a furniture store. The managed said Mr. >Booth had tb or Pneumonia, had few friends, but told one he was Booth. >An Enid dentist examined his teeth and they closely matched dental >records back east. > >Take care >Charles Wyly > >On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:57:22 EDT [email protected] writes: >>In a message dated 9/7/99 1:15:56 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [email protected] > >>writes: >> >><< I have more on Txerath Net from a lady who >> said her grandad Bishop of Chalk Mountain also rode with Quantrell, > >>and >> many say Jesse James (J.Frank Dalton of Grandbury, Texas visited >>them >> >> >>Jesse was exhumed a couple of years ago. DNA proved that the one in >>Jesse >>Woodson James' grave was Jesse, and J. Frank Dalton was not Jesse >>James. BTW >>Jesse is a descendant of Dr. John Woodson who came to Jamestown in >>1619. >>Betty. > > >==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== Please remember that real >people read the messages you post. Got a problem? Got a gripe? Don't >take it to the list! Send me a message, and I'll try to take care of >it: mailto:[email protected]

Hello Folks! Please accept my apology for not giving the SWLGS address for the "KINFOLKS" magazine.. Have had several requests.......here it is: SOUTHWEST LOUISIANA GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY, INC. P O Box 5652 Lake Charles, LA 70606-5652 Membership per calendar year (begins in January each yr.) is: $12 for individuals Inquiries are free to members! "Kinfolks" is published quarterly........should be received by the middle of March, May, September and December. Gwen Leonard

Hi, Mattie was a member of the Northwest La. Society and an officer in Natchitoches. Where is your group based? One More Question: Have you studied the court records in Clinton, which coverred the return of Jemima Cleveland Wyly Edwards to Co. Ben Cleveland, s estate- early 1800.s" Mattie had Edwards records and her son Gen. James Rutherford Wyoy, Ga. Militia, , 1812 & later, his cousin Gen. Ben Cleveland , Col. Ben' s grandson raised by him, and John Cleveland, Col. Be's son, who lived at Traveller's Rest Inn, Toccoa , Ga. with the Wylys. Mattie was descended from Elizabeth Wyly, and I from her brother Gen. James R. They were present in the Cumberland Gap, 1796 when Indians scalpped Evangelist Edwards or Evan Eddards. and injured Jemima and/or a child. Elixabeth hid Edwards children in cane breaks and held them down and quiet. . The land was in East Feliciana Parrish and Amite Co. Miss. and was restored to Col. Ben's estate, not left to Daniel Edwards, jemima's 3 rd husband. Mattie sent me a few pages of it- She said there are a few volumes with questions in one book and answers in another (Two Court Scribes or clerks?) It has info on other families . Is this the same Edwards families as Gov. Edwin Edwards of La. who flew to Stephenville, Texas a few years ago where many Edwards and Wyly families live and paid cash for an Erath County ranch, as reported in Stephenville newspaper? ?? Mattie did not reply to that question. Take care, Charles A. Wyly On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:28:04 EDT [email protected] writes: >This is a note to those who do not subscribe to the SOUTHWEST >LOUISIANA >GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY'S magazine, "KINFOLK." (Your local genealogy >library >might/should have back copies. > >"Kinfolks and Yellowed Pages" have a lot to do with our East Texas >heritage >and loaded with information........ > >In the "Kinfolks" magazine Volume 23 No. 2 there is a lot of >information on >"Transportation and Travel" (pg. 84) that takes in Natchez Trace, >Texas Road, >Nolan Road, Old Spanish Trail routes. Such interesting reading. . . . > >"Major Overland Traveling", . . . . "Historical Events Affecting >Westward >Migration" (pg. 82-83) from 1620 - 1865. > >Also, if interested SWLGS is now on line.......PAID MEMBERS: >YOU CAN SUBMIT YOUR INQUIRIES VIA EMAIL TO: > > PAT HUFFAKER.............. [email protected] > JAN CRAVENS................. [email protected] > >Hope this is helpful to you! > >Gwen Leonard > > > >==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to >[email protected] if you are subscribed to the >list, >or [email protected] if you are subscribed to the >digest. >In the body of your message put only the word unsubscribe >

Hi, I assume you know Mattie Roberts Somerville of West Monroe and your society I think she was an officer and maybe founder of the society at Natchitoches. As you may know she passed away in 1993 or 94. Her husband Bill called me andI picked up about 20 file boxes of her research. Bill said Janie Furman and Percy Wyly and I had contacted her more on our Wyly line and he wanted someone tohave it who would use it. I have, but not as much as I want to. She was a distant cousin of James Grady Wyly of Talula, La. She is a Sevier- Col. Ben Cleveland - james Wyly descendant from 1700's and we have shared gap filling info. What has me puzzled now, it seems she may have documentation on William Roberts- or Brushy Bill Roberts of Hico , Texas ( I knew him) AKA William Bonney or McCarty of Buffalo Gap, Texas and Lincoln N.M.- AKA Billy the Kid. His dad rode with Quantrell and the James Brothers in Oklahoma after the Civil War and a 12 year Billy , living with his aunt, a Bonney with McCarty connections met Jesse and others who taught him riding and shooting tricks and skills. According to the Tombstone Epitath and several books, they sometimes met n Lincoln County, and Arizona and possibly at Texas Parks and Wildlife banquets in Grandbury and at Cooney Caverns in Bosque County., among other crossroads, possibly Mayesville- Fort Smith, Ark. It is also very fascinating to see the Somerville records so many generations back into Scotland and England. I an doing some substitute teaching in Waco and collectible trading and my wife and I enjoy historical research. and visiting my 2 children and 4 grandchildren. I retired in 1989. It's a lot more challenging to stay active and not just shut down and "rust out". I will share info as time allows. Had 27 E mail notes today. 15 or 20 were geneaology related. Take care. Charles Augustine Wyly B.S. & M.Ed. Univ. of North Texas On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:28:04 EDT [email protected] writes: >This is a note to those who do not subscribe to the SOUTHWEST >LOUISIANA >GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY'S magazine, "KINFOLK." (Your local genealogy >library >might/should have back copies. > >"Kinfolks and Yellowed Pages" have a lot to do with our East Texas >heritage >and loaded with information........ > >In the "Kinfolks" magazine Volume 23 No. 2 there is a lot of >information on >"Transportation and Travel" (pg. 84) that takes in Natchez Trace, >Texas Road, >Nolan Road, Old Spanish Trail routes. Such interesting reading. . . . > >"Major Overland Traveling", . . . . "Historical Events Affecting >Westward >Migration" (pg. 82-83) from 1620 - 1865. > >Also, if interested SWLGS is now on line.......PAID MEMBERS: >YOU CAN SUBMIT YOUR INQUIRIES VIA EMAIL TO: > > PAT HUFFAKER.............. [email protected] > JAN CRAVENS................. [email protected] > >Hope this is helpful to you! > >Gwen Leonard > > > >==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to >[email protected] if you are subscribed to the >list, >or [email protected] if you are subscribed to the >digest. >In the body of your message put only the word unsubscribe >

This is a note to those who do not subscribe to the SOUTHWEST LOUISIANA GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY'S magazine, "KINFOLK." (Your local genealogy library might/should have back copies. "Kinfolks and Yellowed Pages" have a lot to do with our East Texas heritage and loaded with information........ In the "Kinfolks" magazine Volume 23 No. 2 there is a lot of information on "Transportation and Travel" (pg. 84) that takes in Natchez Trace, Texas Road, Nolan Road, Old Spanish Trail routes. Such interesting reading. . . . "Major Overland Traveling", . . . . "Historical Events Affecting Westward Migration" (pg. 82-83) from 1620 - 1865. Also, if interested SWLGS is now on line.......PAID MEMBERS: YOU CAN SUBMIT YOUR INQUIRIES VIA EMAIL TO: PAT HUFFAKER.............. [email protected] JAN CRAVENS................. [email protected] Hope this is helpful to you! Gwen Leonard

Whoooaaa! I have read some articles, I believe in National Geographic magazine, regarding the Basques of our country as shepherds in Wyoming and Idaho... but I didn't know that they were receiving preferential treatment... as seperate ethnic groups? ************************************* Charles Wyly wrote: "The Rocky mountain Sheepherders with horse drawn camper wagons were Basque- often mistaken for Gipsies. Boise,Idaho is the largest Basque city in theU.S. and was settled by Basque sheepherders or descendants. and Over 1/2 ,some say 2/3 of Colombus's sailors were of Basque ancestry. and They are now part of the Wichita >Reservation based on linguistics and lifestyle. " And then Jim Brown wrote: "is 50% Basque. He is the grandson of an Idaho sheep herder. Believe it or not, he is entitled to preferential treatment under the Civil Rights and Affirmative Action programs of the Federal government, since he is considered "Hispanic"! ************************************************ Does this mean that these Basques, arriving in the US ca. 1490's, have gradually assimilated into both the Hispanic and Native American groups... and are receiving benefits as such? What about all the poor Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Germans, etc? Karla ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Frank Beacon: My Grandmother's Voice My gramma spoke to me today Of a time long before my birth When she was a little girl like me On a different sort of earth. She spoke of recordings on vinyl; Big disks of red, yellow or black. And phones with dials, not buttons When only a cougher would hack. She said that her shoes had laces, Or buckles, velcro was still unknown. She watched TV in black and white, And washed dishes all on her own. She laughed as she talked about baseball Played in sunlight, not under the lamps. And said that his love of the old ball game Was what attracted her to dear old gramps. My father, she said, was a pill to raise, Always getting in trouble, it seemed. Yet he turned out all right, in spite of himself. As she spoke I could see her face beam. My grandmother passed on twenty years ago now, So I can't tell her how much I care. But her computerized voice still speaks to my heart, A part of her will always be there. Frank Beacon [email protected]

You'll find Basques just about anywhere the Spanish went. Today, the old Basque families in Latin America are something of an elite class, all the way from Mexico to Chile, and they still keep in touch across national boundaries via family ties. (If you notice a Latin American leader's surname that doesn't seem quite Spanish -- or French or German or English -- it's a good bet he is Basque.) What's more, there are a lot of Basque-Americans today in places like Nevada, Wyoming, Idaho and eastern Oregon. These folks are mostly descendants of sheep herders who came directly from Spain to the USA during the last 100 years or so. The most famous of this group is probably former U.S. Senator Paul Laxalt of Nevada. We even have a few Basques here in Dixie: My next-door neighbor in Virginia is 50% Basque. He is the grandson of an Idaho sheep herder. Believe it or not, he is entitled to preferential treatment under the Civil Rights and Affirmative Action programs of the Federal government, since he is considered "Hispanic"! Jim Brown ([email protected])

Hi, I understand some of myMoxley family or their ancestors were onthe Mayflour. They came to Texas from Missouri and had married into a Fleming family there or in Illinois. Great Grandad George Milton Moxley came home from Civil War, a paid substitute, and visited kin in Mecklenburg County then returned to Missouri, then to Stephenville, Texas with loom and spimming wheel. Would like to know more about them in 15 & 1600's. He lived until I was in school. Wasn't one Moxley girl in Boston , a neighbor of Ted Kennedy's sister, found dead between her home and the Kennedy grandson's home whom she had been with that day? This was on Unsolved Misteries. It is a bigger mistery to me- the Moxley family, that is. Take care, Charles Wyly On Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:25:57 -0400 Randal W Cooper <[email protected]> writes: >Dear Subscribers to the Southern Trails Mailing List, > >This is my first posting. > >The heart of my research involves attempting to trace natives of >Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Vermont to the Ohio >River >Valley, in the Ohio counties of Adams, Scioto and Lawrence and the >Kentucky counties of Mason, Lewis and Greenup. > >What routes were used, whether there were short residences along the >way, or whether the migration was done in one direct step, these are >all >issues I must constantly ponder. The journeys were presumably >undertaken >between 1812 and 1846. > >An added twist to my studies is that in the areas I am focusing on, >New >Englanders were a distinct minority sprinkled among the masses of >Virginians, Pennsylvanians, and lesser numbers of Marylanders and New >Jersians. My Yankee subjects burn like twinkling Christmas lights in >the >thick boughs of southern populations. > >If your research bears a resemblance to the above, please contact me, >so >we can discuss our strategies. Thank you! I am looking forward to >meeting researchers on this List, the latest addition for me, out of >quite a number of subscriptions. > >Randal W. Cooper mailto:[email protected] >Lorain, Ohio > > >==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== >Rootsweb is Free! But Rootsweb is supported by volunteers and >contributions. Show your support and become a member. Click here >for more information: >http://www.rootsweb.com >

Hi, John Sevier (Xavier) of Tennessee was a descendant of a brother of St. Francis Xavier's brother- and parents Marie D'Xavier and Dr. Juan Jasso of the Royal Bourbon Court of Navarre, Avalon and Pampola. Check the Sevier Family History, especially the appendix and crests in the front. Nancy Sevier Madden and Cora Bailes Sevier went to the Pamplona library and hired a Priest who could read the Basque Court records fluentlywhile researching the Sevier History. Marie gave a royal fortune for St Francis and Ignacious Loyola to start the Royal Jessuit order. John's dad and grandad were Hugenots- some of St Francis's brothers were Hugenots, but as Bourbons or Burbons they were warned to flee from their Uncle Henry, , to be king of France who converted from Hugenot to Catholic to become king- they escaped the St Bartholemew's day massacre. Dr. Juan was the first P.Hd. from the University of Bologna. John's dad, an English immigrant with Sevier- Xavier kin from Navarre and Paris whio also were already in England /. Pierre's brother went to Russia and he came to Belgium from Paris. John's dad was born 1699 and died 1803, according to some family records. Know any more 3 century folk? There is one in a Stephenville nursing home who make it-a Huey . Read what your World Book says about John Sevier, written by some Tory or Yankee and remember his dad and he spoke 6 languages fluently- some of his translators were a front to throw the Spanish , French, or Indians off guard. Not bad for an"Uneducated" frontier politician who quit VMI after the Va. Gov. sent him there. The Rocky mountain Sheepherders with horse drawn camper wagons were Basque- often mistaken for Gipsies. Boise,Idaho is the largest Basque city in theU.S. and was settled by Basque sheepherders or descendants. Remember, by the time of Columbus the empire of Navarre, Aragon, and Pamplona were crumbling and the Basque language and flag were illegal. 2/3 of the Kingdom went to Spain and 1/3 more went to France. Dr. Juan had campaigned against the inhumane running of the bulls in Pamplona. Over 1/2 ,some say 2/3 of Colombus's sailors were of Basque ancestry. One signed his name to Basque Burbon court records as Grecian Del \\Bosque or Bosque Del Rondo, one or the other. Now, wonder how the Bosque River in Texas really Got his title for a name? Want to bet that Vice President Navarro of Republic of Texas had Navarre roots? The Spanish say Bosque meant Brushy. Sounds oversimplified. Oh, yes, the present king of Spain has Basque and Burbon roots and he is a member of the longest ruling family of any European Royal Family. Saw a photo of him riding his motor scooter to Parliament without a bodyguard. Maybe we could take lessons. And that is far more than you ever wanted to know about the Basque. Take care charles Wyly On Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:33:19 +0000 Harold Miller <[email protected]> writes: > Charlie said...... >>Oh, Yes, the wood houses of the Huaco (Waco) indians by Huaco Springs >was >>older than St. Augustine or Taos. The very first Basque- Spanish >>explorers reported the Huaco Village. There has been a town ever >since, >>They named the Bosque River. >>The Huacos and Tawokani friends usually took an East Texas vacation >when >>scouts reported Comanche or Apache raiders, but always returned in a >few >>days to their Huaco home. They are now part of the Wichita >Reservation >>based on linguistics and lifestyle. > > >Do you mean the Basque who lived in mountains between France and >Spain? Now >that is something I never knew.....did they come with the Spanish? >Thought >they were a group all on their own. Would any have gone with Spanish >when >they settled places like Florida, etc? > >Mary > > >==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== >Rootsweb is Free! But Rootsweb is supported by volunteers and >contributions. Show your support and become a member. Click here >for more information: >http://www.rootsweb.com >

Well, with the info on Sevier heritage given by Charles, things are beginning to make sense about the 'Lost State of Franklin'. I knew that the Spanish were talking to some of the people in Watauga group, know I see what was going on. By the way - that group sure furnished a lot of leaders for the south. I just read where Sam Houston was real tight with Andrew Jackson....which I already knew - they were same political party. Since Jackson was a man of the people, the other political party wanted a man of the people and chose Davy Crockett....so Houston and Crockett were rivals back in Tn. Makes me wonder about poor ole Davie getting left at the Alamo. Now Sam Houston game to the Franklin group after they had chosen to join and be part of North Carolina. But his uncle - also named Sam Houston - was part of the group. He went back to VA and was a well known educator. So the Texas Sam came there as a teen-ager. I wonder how many senators, governors, etc. for other southern states came out of that Franklin group. Their fathers were involved, so they grew up learning about government, and then spread through-out the south. To all the southern states. Boy, so much becomes crystal clear when you know the politics of the times. Why people moved where they did, and with the people they did. Why they joined the side they did. mary

Dear Subscribers to the Southern Trails Mailing List, This is my first posting. The heart of my research involves attempting to trace natives of Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Vermont to the Ohio River Valley, in the Ohio counties of Adams, Scioto and Lawrence and the Kentucky counties of Mason, Lewis and Greenup. What routes were used, whether there were short residences along the way, or whether the migration was done in one direct step, these are all issues I must constantly ponder. The journeys were presumably undertaken between 1812 and 1846. An added twist to my studies is that in the areas I am focusing on, New Englanders were a distinct minority sprinkled among the masses of Virginians, Pennsylvanians, and lesser numbers of Marylanders and New Jersians. My Yankee subjects burn like twinkling Christmas lights in the thick boughs of southern populations. If your research bears a resemblance to the above, please contact me, so we can discuss our strategies. Thank you! I am looking forward to meeting researchers on this List, the latest addition for me, out of quite a number of subscriptions. Randal W. Cooper mailto:[email protected] Lorain, Ohio

Charlie said...... >Oh, Yes, the wood houses of the Huaco (Waco) indians by Huaco Springs was >older than St. Augustine or Taos. The very first Basque- Spanish >explorers reported the Huaco Village. There has been a town ever since, >They named the Bosque River. >The Huacos and Tawokani friends usually took an East Texas vacation when >scouts reported Comanche or Apache raiders, but always returned in a few >days to their Huaco home. They are now part of the Wichita Reservation >based on linguistics and lifestyle. Do you mean the Basque who lived in mountains between France and Spain? Now that is something I never knew.....did they come with the Spanish? Thought they were a group all on their own. Would any have gone with Spanish when they settled places like Florida, etc? Mary

Hi Sara, I've been looking for the "White River Road" and figure it must be the White River in Arkansas. They were traveling between southern Tennessee and Benton Co. Ark. Does your book mention anything about travel up and down the River? Laurel Burns > > > ==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to > [email protected] if you are subscribed to the list, > or [email protected] if you are subscribed to the digest. > In the body of your message put only the word unsubscribe > >

Hi, I forgot a small item of possible interest concerning Jesse James. Another man who claimed to be his grandson and bore his name came to Waco since I retired in 1989 with a cousin investor from Australia. . They got permits to dig in the boggy land of East Waco, explaining that Jesse left a message that he had a safe sent to Waco by rail. It contained little money but had many valuable papers and records inside. When the safe was moved from the train to the designated warehouse, they had to remove a few bricks from the entrance and later replaced them . The exact address was found and and it was evident where the bricks had been removed, then they went to some open area and began digging with a Diesel dragline and/or dozer. Others with the same story had dug there a few years ago, but gave up because of the soil. If you have been to Waco you can see the West side of the river is a raised rock bluff past Emmons Cliff and Lover's Leap on the Bosque overlooking the Brazos, near McClennan Community College. The east side of the river used to flood several feet deep before Whitney and other dams were built. There are no rocks on that side of the Brazos, just jelly mud and quicksand,, because of the Balconies Fault Line which roughly followed I-35 and the Old Butterfierld Stage route to San Antonio. I 35 is not a good sample of Texas. Try 281 or Hwy 6 & 77. . When the Roeblings built the Waco suspension Bridge, still standing, the east posts were poured on solid rock a few feet deep. They dug 90 feet on the other side and finally made a thick criss crossed float of 12" cedar logs and poured the concrete , then pushed the mud back in. Their next bridge was the Brooklyn Bridge- there were and are other suspension bridges on the Brazos and Paluxy Rivers. , usually hung on large tall steel oil well casing. Wonder if the Roeblings saw these other bridges and improved on them" Back to Jesse's grandsons, the local paper noted that the Texas Rangers took an active interest in the digging for the vault. They had electronic images of it , but each time a large Diesel digging engine was cranked it seemed to move down or sideways and down. They were several feet deep but ran out of money and did not seem to get closer. They, like a previous group, ran out of funds. The Rangers or Deputies watched it day and night until it was abandoned. Oh, Yes, the wood houses of the Huaco (Waco) indians by Huaco Springs was older than St. Augustine or Taos. The very first Basque- Spanish explorers reported the Huaco Village. There has been a town ever since, They named the Bosque River. The Huacos and Tawokani friends usually took an East Texas vacation when scouts reported Comanche or Apache raiders, but always returned in a few days to their Huaco home. They are now part of the Wichita Reservation based on linguistics and lifestyle. No, J. Frank Dobie says the Chisholm Trail did not come through Waco- that was the Texas Trail. Today's local Chamber of Commerce call it the Chisolm Trail each year when they drive longhorns across the suspension Bridge. I'm sure you know the difference from Jesse Chissum's ()or Chisum) trail from Broken Bow, Okla, to Illinois and Fort Sumpter, N.Mex. and John Chisholm,or was it Jesse Chissum and John Chisolm? Have to check some details lately. Mr. Chisolm was a store operator in Kansas on the Chisolm Trail, and never made a trail drive. Mr. Chissum sometimes sold to Tunstill and McSween and other of Billy The Kids employers or enemies Both John and Jesse had Indian mothers and Scottish or Irish dads. One Choctaw and one Cherokee. Take care, Charles Wyly On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:53:21 EDT [email protected] writes: >In a message dated 9/8/99 3:12:07 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [email protected] >writes: > ><< eye witnesses said the body exhumed > in Missouri was lying face down in the coffin and the only DNA >missouri > evidence came from a tooth of jesse's buried outside his childhood >home, > not his grave and the corpse was the wrong size for Jesse >> >I watched the A & E (I think that was the station) documentary. Was >under the >impression that the exhumation took much longer because the coffin was >wooden >instead of metal as they had been told. From what I remember they did >find >damage to skull that would indicate gun shot. They also measured the >skelton >and that it was the size of Jesse. I thought the tooth was taken from >the >skull and they used mitochrondial DNA to prove that skelton was Jesse. >How >would the researchers know if a tooth found outside the old homeplace >would >even belong to Jesse or a member of the James family? Guess the next >time >they show it, I will watch more closely. Betty.

I ran across this in a book by one of our local residents, William Monks, "A History of Southern Missouri and Northern Arkansas". The migrant was his father, James Monks, who was born in Tennessee and as a young man moved to northern Alabama and married there. He joined the Army and fought in the "Seminole war" in the state of Florida. When his term expired, he returned home, sold his farm with the intention of moving to Florida [which makes some of the following a little confusing to me]. He had a flatboat built and placed in the Tennessee River near Gunters Landing. They went down the river by Decatur and were piloted through the Mussell Shoals. On reaching Southern Illinois, eight miles from Paducah, he looked over the country and came to the conclusion that that country was good enough, and located in what was then Pope County, later became Massack County. He lived there for nine years, sold out and started out for Texas. They crossed the Mississippi at Green's old ferry, went by way of Jackson, Missouri, and traveled the old military road which was made by government troops in removing the Cherokee Indians from the state of Alabama - it was the only road leading west. He heard that it was very dangerous to enter Texas on account of the Indians, so crossed White Water [river?] near what was known as Bullinger's old mill. They arrived in Fulton County, Arkansas, on Bennett's river, about July of 1844, and that is where they stayed for several years before moving across the state line into Missouri. The author was then about 15 years old. Fulton County is on the state line. I hope this will be useful to someone. Sara

Hey, it just hit me- are you Bobby Gilmer Moss? My Hipp and Copeland ancestors were from Clinton, Greeneville, and Greer, S.C. as well as some Stone and Cleveland and Wyly kin. We have plenty of witnesses to Jesse living in various places in Texas and visiting friends in Tombstone, Arizona after his demise which many think was a cover to start a new life. Several who knew him before he "was shot" recognized him later. The same for Billy the Kid. John Wilkes Boot's grave has a black headed man in it, according to Unsolved Misteries folk who studied the shooting of someone called him The wounded man who recoverred with a friend's help stayed in a log cabin still standing between Iredell and Hico, Texas. I definitely do not think the FBI invented pardons and hiden identities in our lifetime. Take care, Charles Augustine Wyly Take care, Charles Wyly On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:53:21 EDT [email protected] writes: >In a message dated 9/8/99 3:12:07 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [email protected] >writes: > ><< eye witnesses said the body exhumed > in Missouri was lying face down in the coffin and the only DNA >missouri > evidence came from a tooth of jesse's buried outside his childhood >home, > not his grave and the corpse was the wrong size for Jesse >> >I watched the A & E (I think that was the station) documentary. Was >under the >impression that the exhumation took much longer because the coffin was >wooden >instead of metal as they had been told. From what I remember they did >find >damage to skull that would indicate gun shot. They also measured the >skelton >and that it was the size of Jesse. I thought the tooth was taken from >the >skull and they used mitochrondial DNA to prove that skelton was Jesse. >How >would the researchers know if a tooth found outside the old homeplace >would >even belong to Jesse or a member of the James family? Guess the next >time >they show it, I will watch more closely. Betty. > > >==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to >[email protected] if you are subscribed to the >list, >or [email protected] if you are subscribed to the >digest. >In the body of your message put only the word unsubscribe >

In a message dated 9/8/99 3:12:07 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [email protected] writes: << eye witnesses said the body exhumed in Missouri was lying face down in the coffin and the only DNA missouri evidence came from a tooth of jesse's buried outside his childhood home, not his grave and the corpse was the wrong size for Jesse >> I watched the A & E (I think that was the station) documentary. Was under the impression that the exhumation took much longer because the coffin was wooden instead of metal as they had been told. From what I remember they did find damage to skull that would indicate gun shot. They also measured the skelton and that it was the size of Jesse. I thought the tooth was taken from the skull and they used mitochrondial DNA to prove that skelton was Jesse. How would the researchers know if a tooth found outside the old homeplace would even belong to Jesse or a member of the James family? Guess the next time they show it, I will watch more closely. Betty.

In a message dated 9/8/99 3:36:17 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [email protected] writes: << High Town Path in the Bankhead forrest,The Sypsie Wilderness of North Alabama.Winston,Lawrence,counties. >> Do you subscribe to Wild Alabama? A very good magazine. Betty.