At 11:39 AM 9/20/99 EDT, you wrote: >Another contributing factor to the the War Between the States was States >Rights. The federal government was trying to dictate to the southern states >on matters that should have been state issues and not federal issues. >I am not real well versed on all of the factors leading up to the War but I >do know that it was not just exclusively about slavery. >Sandy I remember as a kid in the 1960s hearing my southern relatives debate states rights.... and if someone was running for office, if he did not come by your house, introduce himself and shake your hand, my Grannie said she would not vote for him. Let me tell you, as far as my family was concerned in 1860 from what I can piece together, they gave a heck about the Federal government. They were more interested what the dang government was doing in Little Rock, they seem to have not cared much for politicians....no matter where they were from. Local elections were hot and furious, with lots of speech making. they sure took politics serious, and every man chose a side. Not like today when we can not be bothered to go out and vote. They seemed to think every man's vote counted. And I also hate to admit this, but many of my ancestors were in the 10th Arkansas Inf at beginning of war, and there was a bit of a mutiny there. Seems they did not agree with the way things were being run. I have always thought poor Jeff Davis had his hands full with his own officers and the feelings of different groups. Why should Texas go fight in Virginia? Why didn't Davis send troops to help on the western front - Arkansas sure needed them......and so on. Ole Peter Turney of Turney's 1st TN Regiment...he was later Governor of TN......seems he was really upset when the first vote was taken and TN voted to stay in the union, he tried to break from TN and form another state ....... seems no matter what was going on, my family was in the middle of it ready to fight somebody. Anyway, sorting out all the fussin and fightin sure has been fun. Mary

Funny how in following some of my family they followed the same trail as Abe Lincoln. I have always thought of him as a southern boy. And I have to admit, in my research I have found some of the members of my family in those plantation houses, owning slaves. They sure were not from the north, most of them were here ca 1741 and were German speaking, from Switzerland; others here 1700 by way of North Carolina, and seem to be from Irish sea area. I was not aware the large plantations were owned by northerners. I do agree that a few people owned most of the slaves, had the large plantations, controlled the government. And how my family got their land? They were always the first in a new area, getting the best land. Each generation most of them moved on leaving a few behind to pass on the land. I had them on both sides of the war - in blue and gray - but let me tell you, they were all southern. At one time it bothered me that my family seemed to keep taking Indian land, pushing them further west. It also bothers me that some owned slaves. Now I simple except them all regardless of what they did. Some I like, some I don't, but I never expected to find I was royalty when I began the search of my family. I have found a bit of everything, divorce, murder, thief, but also bravery, and honor. They were people, and trying to say one group was right and another wrong, one was better or more just than another.....it gets too complicated for me to do that. I simply accept them - warts and all, and move on, trying to learn from their mistakes. Mary

I glad to see some one out there who knows about the War. If you would allow me, here is more info on the War. The term "civil war" is a misnomer. A civil war is fought for control of the same governmet. The South left and formed their own government which they had every right to do so under the Constitution. That was also taught at West Point through a book called Rawls View of the Constitution. He was a New Englander and a stanch abolitionist. The center of the slave trade was Boston Mass. It was only New Englanders who owned the slave ships. It was the US flag that flew over them. The hugh plantations in the South which owned tens of thousands of slaves were owned by northerners. At the time of the War 80% of the Southern people did not own slaves. 15% of Southerners owned a family of 5 or less slaves. The avrage Southerner owned 1000 arces of land he farmed himself. The land was aquired through inharitence from grandparents who fought in the American Revolution. When the South seceded their constitution forbid the importation of slaves. The greedy northerners could not stand someone else making money. Their lust for power would not allow an honorable people in the South their autonomy. At the time of the War the South was the 4th wealthiest nation in the world. Mississippi was the wealthiest state north or south. When the war first broke out most northerners could care less if the South left. Lincoln had very little support from the northern people for his greedy cause. He took every opertunity to subvert the US Constitution which was very much the reason why the South left in the first place. Lincoln into the middle of the War realized he could not beat the south into submission needed a rallying point for the northern people. He used slavery as his propaganda tool. The north had a substantial number of fanatics none as abolitionist. He fanned their flames and issued the emancipation proclamation. This document only released slaves in the counties of Southern states which voted against lincoln. Because lincoln did such a great job with the slavery propaganda he has been given a place of prominance with the present day organization Liberal International in their Switzerland museum. Some interesting facts about lincoln: Lincoln as a young man was head of a militia. His militia was called to the wilderness in Wisconsin to fight Indians. Another officer, Jefferson Davis, and his unit was sent to the same area to fight. The future president lincoln USA and the future president Davis CSA would match their military skills against the Indians. Davis's skills proved superior to lincoln's skills. Lincoln was not a Christian according to his wife and his mother. Lincoln had a mental breakdown before he was elected president. Lincoln never won an election of any office he sought until he won the presidental election. Lincoln was a racist. He made statements in his campaign speeches on how he detested Black people. Lincoln gave orders to his military officers that Southern ladies were to be raped and Southern civilians were to have their possesions taken from them. Any northern officer who did not comply with lincolns orders was sent out until he did comply. They officers who did comply were promoted in rank. Harold

Thanks, Harold. It really gets my dander up when I feel like people are putting down the South. I am an American born and bred but I am a Southern Lady by the Grace of God!!! Sandy

Hi List, I've been reading the posts about slavery and the War Between the States (smile). More from my point of view later, maybe. Here is some interesting news sent to me by my genealogy collaborator, Hank Muller in NC. Marian Douglas in Macedonia [email protected] This email almost makes me feel like I'm in the USA!! But unfortunately, I am not. (not smile) >Thanks to Hank Muller in Asheville for sending me this article. > >September 1999 (no date given) >"Genealogists praise crucial link to the past" > >by KERRY WHIPPLE >THE NATCHEZ DEMOCRAT >(reprinted in the Sun Herald Newspaper > Biloxi/Gulfport MS) > > "The simply named Record Book was found in the basement of the Adams >County Courthouse by Mississippi Department of Archives and History >researchers and Chancery Clerk Tommy O'Beirne. > >The book, which had been rebound sometime this century, is a rare >discovery - and could help some people trace more of their ancestry. > >Many of the slaves are listed by first and last name, and the names of the >Kentucky owners are included as well. The records cover the period >1858-1861." ... > >Go to this URL for the whole article. > >http://www.sunherald.com/region/docs/slave083099.htm >

In a message dated 9/20/99 10:42:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << It was only New Englanders who owned the slave ships. It was the US flag that flew over them. The hugh plantations in the South which owned tens of thousands of slaves were owned by northerners. At the time of the War 80% of the Southern people did not own slaves. 15% of Southerners owned a family of 5 or less slaves. The avrage Southerner owned 1000 arces of land he farmed himself. ................ Lincoln was a racist. He made statements in his campaign speeches on how he detested Black people. Lincoln gave orders to his military officers that Southern ladies were to be raped and Southern civilians were to have their possesions taken from them. Any northern officer who did not comply with lincolns orders was sent out until he did comply. They officers who did comply were promoted in rank. >> Can you please offer some reference sources; i.e. published works to substantiate your statements?

Another contributing factor to the the War Between the States was States Rights. The federal government was trying to dictate to the southern states on matters that should have been state issues and not federal issues. I am not real well versed on all of the factors leading up to the War but I do know that it was not just exclusively about slavery. Sandy

In a message dated 9/20/99 2:42:25 PM !!!First Boot!!!, [email protected] writes: << The term "civil war" is a misnomer. >> It is referred to as The War of Northern Aggression in some parts of the South - still. Betty.

John Davis b 1810, was a sibling of Zachariah Davis , b near Shelbyville, Tn, and a son of Daniel Davis and his wife, Elizabeth Davidson. John died in 1845, never married. I may have missed it, I'm only 197 letters behind.....Zachariah is my Davis line and I do have quite a bit of history on it, so if you think this is your connection, let meknow and Iwill give more information. Jean [email protected] [email protected] wrote: > Hi All, > Charles has more knowledge in his little toe than I have in my entire body > but I have a book and a couple of sites that might help. {TN girl marries a > Texan..these guys learn to QUOTE Travis' last letter from the Alamo when the > rest of us are learning "Twinkle, twinkle.." } > > John Davis 1811-3/6/1836 25 years > Born: KY > Residence: Gonzales Texas > Pvt. rifleman, Gonzales Ranging Co. > > John Davis left KY while in his late teens. His twin brother remained behine > when he moved to Texas. > He received title to 1/4 league of land on the LaVaca Creek in Dewitt's > Colony on 10/28/1831. > In Texas, Davis gained a reputation for his actions in engagements with > Indians. > On 2/23/1836 he was mustered into service as a member of the Gonzales > Ranging Co. He entered the Alamo with this unit 3/1/1836. > from: Alamo Defenders by Bill Groneman p. 32 > http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/dewitt.htm Sons of DeWitt Colony > http://www.rootsweb.com/~txgenweb/restx.htm Residents of Texas 1782-1836 > Regards, > Karen (of Col Samuel Wear...the genes say hello through the generations, > Charles) > > ==== Southern-Trails Mailing List ==== > If someone sends a warning about an email virus or asks you to send ANY > message to everybody you know, check out these site to see if it's for real: > IBM AntiVirus Home Page > http://www.av.ibm.com > McAfee: Virus Hoaxes > http://www.mcafee.com/support/hoax.asp > or one of these sites which are very good about virus and > chainletter hoaxes or myths: > http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html > http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACChainLetters.html > http://kumite.com/myths/myths/

In a message dated 9/20/99 3:55:54 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [email protected] writes: << When the war began The Slave issue was more or less a cover to get what the North really wanted. >> And if the War was because of slavery, they sure waited a long time. If memory serves the first slaves were brought to Jamestown in 1619 on a Dutch trader. Betty.

Thank you,Mary. I didn't expect a reply so quick! I should have added that there was a vast difference in the children's ages from 1870 to 1880.Susan E.Lambert and Benjamin Moore were married 29 May,1866 in Montgomery Co. VA. Ben was born 1841 and Susan was born 1842. I feel the ages of children in 1870 was more correct. Richard E. was a child of Ben and Susan. Either he died after the 1870 census or he was with another family after they were orphaned. But he was never mentioned by any one that I know of. I will take your advice and look in the places you suggested. Thanks again,Mary. Freeda

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/ The above address is for the New Handbook of Texas, a 6 vol. set of books about Texas. Perhaps there will be something about the Alamo defender. The above URL is a good source for Texas history look-ups. db

My g.grandfather Andrew Jackson Moore was born June 7, 1874 prob. in VA to Benjamin and Susan Lambert Moore who were from Franklin and Montgomery co's VA. According to the 1870 US census of Auburn, Montgomery Co.VA the family of Benjamin Moore consisted of Susan, Henry C. Moore age 4,Edward E. Moore age 3 and George Washington Moore age 1. This is the only time we see Richard E. Moore. We next see the children on the 1880 US census,Lake Comarant,De Soto Co.,Mississippi listed as orphans in the household of Dr. T.O. McKinny and his wife Josephine. Listed were Henry C. Moore 9 years old and Jackie 7 years old. George was farmed out to a family named Dodson.           These are all the facts we have. Anything else is stories the boys told. Their father died of poisoning. We don't know when or where. They had a step father who they were with when they took the trip from VA to MS. They had set up housekeeping in a slave cabin on the Mckinney farm in Lake Comorant. We don't know when.The boys remembered their stepfather put their mother Susan in a wooden box and took the box in the wagon over a rise and never came back. There was a trunk left with the boys with a bible inside. The bible is the only thing that has survived and the only clues in it haven't helped us this far. This is the writing.."Louisa E. Deathridge,Her Bible. Presented by Alia Freeman January the ii,1864..The Lord is just and holy." In another section there is another notation: " Corinne Deathridge her name.Presented by your friend Louisa."             With these as the only clues I have is there anyone out there who might know anything at all about these names?                                                             In appreciation,Freeda in AZ PS, I forgot to mention that the boys said that they left on the journey from Bristol,VA near Little Little's Crook or Crossing.

I can not help myself here but, perhaps you can set me straight if wrong. Wasn't the Civil War actually started on the behalf of Money more then the south owning slaves. As the North was losing out to the south in sea trade, and the South growing faster in export then the North was happy to see. Do to the fact of the Slaves being the primary work force, the South was producing more then the north. Northerners owned Slaves as well as the Southerners. just in a different capacity. When the war began The Slave issue was more or less a cover to get what the North really wanted. The control of the import and export system. Abe Lincoln owned slaves prior to the War so I have read. Just a thought here, Margrett McCorkle

Hi Charles! In the present day (and to my personal knowledge for the last forty years or so), Arkansas Highway 16 which heads southeastward from Fayetteville, Arkansas in the northwest corner of the state to its junction with Arkansas Highway 23 and thence south to Ozark on the Arkansas River is regionally known as the "Pig Trail." About ten years ago, they even put rather nice carved wood signs so identifying the route. It has been used, despite its extremely narrow, winding, tree covered nature through some of the most roughest terrain in the state, as a shorter route from Fayetteville to the Arkansas River valley and central Arkansas - particularly on weekends when the Razorbacks played in Fayetteville. Stretches of it have appeared in several automobile commercials. --- Robert W. King I'm an ingenieur, NOT a bloody locomotive driver! SnailNet: 19023 TV Tower Rd, Winslow, Arkansas 72959 BellNet: 501-634-2086 InterNet: [email protected] http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/k/i/n/Robert-W-King/index.html [stuff snipped] Grandad John Henry said he came on a or the Pig Trail from Hope to Huckaby , Texas, about 1900with a stove, a pump organ, a trunk, a milk cow, and a dog. I was in Mena arkansas doing contract Discover card work a few days and folk there gave me tourists brochures on THE PIG TRAIL- A PREHISTORIC NATIVE AMERICAN TRAIL from Mena , Arkansas down a curved Ouachita Mountain ridge which comes out near the Red River betweeen Fredrick and Broken Bow. Arkansas wagon trains used this route to Texas to avoid Caddo lake and several swamps and rivers. They had a shallow ford or ferry on the Red River, from which you could go to Sulfur Springs or towards Dallas, where crossings for the Trinity and the Brazos were well developped and you were in Erath County, 50 miles southwest of Fort Worth. [more stuff snipped]

I'm sorry but I came up empty on all the names in the book I have. The book was published by the Benton County Historical Society on the anniversary of the battle. There are six unmarked graves in one cemetery and another cemetery that isn't listed. Joy

Hi All, Charles has more knowledge in his little toe than I have in my entire body but I have a book and a couple of sites that might help. {TN girl marries a Texan..these guys learn to QUOTE Travis' last letter from the Alamo when the rest of us are learning "Twinkle, twinkle.." } John Davis 1811-3/6/1836 25 years Born: KY Residence: Gonzales Texas Pvt. rifleman, Gonzales Ranging Co. John Davis left KY while in his late teens. His twin brother remained behine when he moved to Texas. He received title to 1/4 league of land on the LaVaca Creek in Dewitt's Colony on 10/28/1831. In Texas, Davis gained a reputation for his actions in engagements with Indians. On 2/23/1836 he was mustered into service as a member of the Gonzales Ranging Co. He entered the Alamo with this unit 3/1/1836. from: Alamo Defenders by Bill Groneman p. 32 http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/dewitt.htm Sons of DeWitt Colony http://www.rootsweb.com/~txgenweb/restx.htm Residents of Texas 1782-1836 Regards, Karen (of Col Samuel Wear...the genes say hello through the generations, Charles)

Hi, I have heard of this route. The New Orleans Greys- were a few thousand sent by Jackson (Covert Action?) and it was common to build log rafts up river and sell them to a sawmill near New Orleans, giving cash to enter Texas with. They could also go back upstream on a steamer to Natchitoches, La. and cross toNacodoches, Texas Martha Catherine Mitchell Wyly joined her Texas children and stepchildren by the Gulf of Mexico from Georgia, to Alvin Texas above old Indianola, on High Bank of old Brazos, which sunk during the Galveston Huricane of 1900, which set the record for Huricane deaths which still stands and gave the world the Mayor- City Manager type government before they could be reached by mainland. They were piling bodies from shallow graves and burning them in wrecked buildings for sanitary survival. The seawall was added with Burnett Texas Granite later. Take care, Charles Wyly

Hi Mary, Thanks. The inflation calculator is great. Just tried it on income and my husband reminded me that it's not a straight comparison due to our heavy taxes today. $10,000 gross income in year 1900 = @ $191,000 gross income in year 1998, but due to the extreme difference of taxes that have to be paid, the net income realized by an individual today after those taxes are paid and thus the purchase power of that $191,000 income is actually much less than the $10,000 income in 1900. Amazing.. Karen In a message dated 9/19/99 11:02:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << this just off the Smith Co TN list. want to know how much Grandpa really paid for something? www.westegg.com/inflation/ Inflation Calculator I tried it, Grandpa always said his land was purchased ca 1880 at a dollar an acre.....which in 1998 money would be $17.09 an acre....still a good buy. Mary >>

Yes, Thanks Charles Wyly