Thanks to everyone who has sent replies to me as to why a moon was carved on the outhouse door. Some of the answers have been real hooters! Wayne Walker I offer the following as to the answer to my question The only reference I can find to the practice is in Eric Sloane's The Little Red Schoolhouse: A Sketchbook of Early American Education. Discussing 18th- and 19th-century schoolhouses, Eric writes: "The woodshed was often a lean-to attached to the schoolhouse, but the most accepted arrangement was to place it between the schoolhouse and the privy, with a fence separating the boys' entrance from the girls'. The ancient designation of privy doors was to saw into them a sun (for boys' toilet) and a moon (for girls' toilet)." Eric has supplied a sketch of both versions, showing the familiar crescent moon for the girls and a radiant sun for the boys. "Luna, the ancient crescent shaped figure, was a universal symbol for womankind. A moon, sawed into a privy door, served as the 'Ladies Room' sign of early innkeeping days. Sol, a sunburst pattern, was cut into the men's room side of the outhouse. These symbols were necessary because in Colonial times only a fraction of our population could read or write. • Why are there moons on Outhouse doors? I have received lots of questions about the quarter moon seen above the door in most outhouses. The answer lies in the lighting inside because outhouses were around before electricity. The best way to let light in was to put in a window. For privacy reasons, most outhouses were designed with the window above the line of sight. Many early outhouses contained a decorative "moon cutout" covered by glass. This allowed just enough light in to take care of business! It also allowed the real moon to shine through during the night. Bringing a lit lantern into some outhouses could have caused quite a bang so the moon won out! In reality, most people had a covered pot under the bed to go in during the night. Get's mighty cold at night going outside and the varmints are something else! Here is another explanation... Probably the most recognizable symbol associated symbol with the traditional outhouse building is the familiar crescent moon carved into the privy door. Actually, the symbol is an ancient one, and was a sign for womanhood in colonial days and on the frontier. It's male counterpart, Sol, was either a star or a sun burst design also on the door. Since most male outhouses fell into disrepair rather quickly they seldom survived; while the female ones were better maintained, and were eventually used by both sexes. Although you can find outhouses still standing with the crescent moon, the original meaning for gender identification was lost by the later nineteenth century in most areas of the country. Here is another response from another person... The moon that is often found on the outhouse door stand for the ancient sign- luna- or womanhood. When the outhouse was first invented people needed these signs to discern which was the men's or women's bathroom-for most people couldn't read. Soon, however, the men's became rundown or was very unkempt and not maintained. So everybody just used the women's bathroom, and the mens sunburst or sol sign was forgotten. The moon sign was kept and is also used as a vent. Another person corrects the term "quarter moon" as follows. This person obviously knows more about the sky than I do: The first sentence states that it is a quarter moon. A quarter moon, however, is a half lit moon where the terminator is half-way between each side of the disk. It would be more accurate to refer to the moon as a crescent moon in all cases. And if you wanted to be pedantic about it you could go so far as to call it a waxing or waning crescent moon depending on which side is lit. And yet another just asked this question: "Recently my husband built an old fashioned outhouse (tool storage) in our wildflower garden in the back yard. We've been having a discussion regarding the crescent moon on the door versus a starburst. The moon means ladies only, the starburst for men only. Right? But is the crescent moon typically waxing or waning? We would like to keep it looking as authentic as possible. The wood used for the outhouse was from an old chicken house that was on the property from 1948 and has that rustic appearance." The answer is that the moon is normally a Waning Crescent Moon. Most outhouses contained two holes of DIFFERENT SIZES! There was a larger hole for the adults with big (you know whats) and there was a small hole for the children. Most children learned very early NOT to sit on the bigger hole unless they wanted to fall in!

We did not have a moon on the door but the thing I remember most of all was being afraid of "Black Widow Spiders"!!!!!!!!!!!! The children of today, just don't know what they are missing!! Mary June

Our outhouse in Western KY had a moon carved in the door, so did the outhouses of my grandparents. Always thought it was either for decoration or lighting. When I think about it now, it did not provide light very well, nor did ventilate. > [Original Message] > From: <Ljdunk52@aol.com> > To: <SOUTH-CENTRAL-KENTUCKY-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: 4/2/2006 1:28:52 PM > Subject: [SCKY] MOON CARVED IN OUTHOUSE DOOR > > Lucy, that's very interesting what you wrote about the carving of the moon > and the starburst outhouse doors; depicting the difference of which outhouse > was for woman and which was for men. I never really paid any attention when I > was younger whether the doors had carivings or not. I only remember > dreading going in there, especially at night. When my parents would take my sisters > and I on vacation up north (MI) I remember one time we did have an outhouse > at the cabin we stayed at. My sisters and I were terrified to go out at > night for fear of bears and other animals that lived in the woods so we tried > really hard to hold it until morning (which didn't always work, lol). > > > ==== SOUTH-CENTRAL-KENTUCKY Mailing List ==== >

Lucy, that's very interesting what you wrote about the carving of the moon and the starburst outhouse doors; depicting the difference of which outhouse was for woman and which was for men. I never really paid any attention when I was younger whether the doors had carivings or not. I only remember dreading going in there, especially at night. When my parents would take my sisters and I on vacation up north (MI) I remember one time we did have an outhouse at the cabin we stayed at. My sisters and I were terrified to go out at night for fear of bears and other animals that lived in the woods so we tried really hard to hold it until morning (which didn't always work, lol).

My grandparent's outhouse didn't have any shaped opening cut into the door, nor did any of the other outhouses that I remember. I've actually only seen the moon carving on cartoons and such. Robyn in Middle TN

The moon carved into the door of the outhouse was an ancient symbol. The moon means luna. It was carved in the door in the colonial and frontier times to denote that it was the outhouse for woman. The starburst was carved into the outhouse that was for men. The mens outhouse became a thing of the past because of disrepair and cleanliness and eventually only there was only the outhouse with the moon and both sexes used it. The moon also did let in a little light, both from the sun in the day time and the moon at night. The moon if left open also did let in a little ventilation. The outhouse was not usually very tightly built so there were other means of air circulation. As a child we had an outhouse, however ours did not have a carved opening in the door. I hope this answers the question you have. Lucy

My understanding is that the moon was there for ventilation. Some of my relatives say that the moon was carved into the door also to help light the interior in the daytime as well as on a moonlit night. Having used an outhouse in my youth in the 40's and 50's, I don't remember any of the outhouses I used having a moon carved in the door. It was always dark and not always the sweetest smelling place. I also remember the use of the Sear's catalog. I can only say that the outhouse experience isn't in my greatest memories of my youth book. Mike _Ar2BurnTree@aol.com_ (mailto:Ar2BurnTree@aol.com) Michael N. Arterburn 210 Marywood Avenue Claremont, CA 91711 1-800-350-5445 Ar2BurnTree@aol.com

Does anyone on the list know why our forefathers put a half moon cutting in the door of the out-house?

This is a terrific discussion about one of the major questions of American family history. I am enjoying it immensely. I have a specific example to offer and a book recommendation. Sue Parks Patterson wrote a marvelous and carefully documented family history of the Stokes, Smith, Bowker, Ingles and other families that came from Virginia and North Carolina into Tennessee and in later generations were among the first Tennesseans to move on to Arkansas and Texas. This manuscript, "The Circle Goes Unbroken," included an appendix with letters from family members who had moved to Arkansas and Texas to relatives who stayed behind. Unfortunately much of Ms. Park's manuscript appears to have been taken down from the web. But here is an example of one letter that speaks to the subject of relocation. "Abram [Smith] was not content to be in Arkansas without as many of his relatives as he could recruit to join him. In his April 17, 1832 letter to his brothers, Guy and Tom, he extolled the virtues of the area, saying, “If you will come you will never rue the trip for I will show you the best country you ever saw and the very country you and Thomas must come to for if you will come and get a start of stalk [sic?] you will never work a day and the like of health I have never seen since I left White county....” Abram chastised them for staying “in that dammed hole that you and Thomas does.” and closes his letter with “rite [sic] quick and come quick.” He goes on to comment about educating his children: "In the 1832 letter Abram complained that “Bird is the best...child in the Territory and is ruining for the want of schooling and I have no chance to give it to him. We have plenty of schools but I can’t git [sic] him to (school?) without I had money. I have plenty of propert! y but I have nary money and in consequence of that I can’t school him.” this segment of Ms. Patterson's manuscript is still on line at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~bearraid/circle/chap6.html Also, there is a wonderful pair of books by D. W. Meining called The Shaping of America: A Geographical Perspective on 500 Years of History. Volume 2, "Continental America, 1800-1867," covers many of the questions being discussed here in great detail. There are many references to Kentucky. John Newton Morrel

Sandi: Did I miss it? I saw no mention of Hancock County in your series. I realize quite possible there was nothing to report. Lyn

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Bailey-Lopez" <jbailey148@comcast.net> To: "Sandi Gorin" <sgorin@glasgow-ky.com> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [SCKY] Relocation > My Baileys of Monroe County, Ky relocated to Mo. in these ways: > > John P. and Barthenia Bailey left Monroe County for Jackson County TN. > sometime after the 1840 census. They sent his cousin William Bailey born > 1794 and his sons William Jackson, Daniel B, John C. and a somehow > connected Martin T. Bailey ahead to buy farming land in Platte and > Buchannan Counties of Mo. They purchased this land in 1846. John P. came > out and bought it from them in 1848. Martin T. Bailey moved every 3 years > from Mo to Ks. to Tx. and back. One thought on that is that he was > evading the civil unrest in the country. John P. farmed this land until > his death, and it has remained in the family until this day. William > Bailey, William Jackson, and John C. chose to farm in Atchison County, > Ks., right across the river from John P. Bailey. Daniel B. Bailey came > back to KY., took a wife and moved to DAde Co. Mo. with the McMillin in > laws, and fought for the North in the Civil war. He was a stockman. It > is thought that the Baileys that remained in Kansas stayed there to escape > the civil unrest of the country. Edward Keenan Bailey came to Benton > County Missouri from Monroe County Ky in the fall of 1848, because he had > been offered a job by Mr. Butterfield of the stage company. He preferred > to hire "mountain men" who were familiar with horses, and native > americans. E.K. established a relay station at Fairfield Mo. and also > farmed. His brother, Archie, joined him in Benton county by 1850, he was > a cabinet maker. During the Gold rush, my family established a drilling > company, called Union drilling, they moved the operation to Weld Co. > Colorado, and brought fresh water to the mining operations. This was > headed up by Daniel Bailey, but even Bennett H. Bailey came from Ark. to > help in the operation of the company. > Jeanette Bailey > Independence, Mo.

Sandi, there was a Military Tract in Illinois -- land given to veterans of the War of 1812. From "History of Mercer County, Illinois 1882" I quote: "In 1816 all that portion of the state between the Mississippi and Illinois rivers, and extending from the mouth of the latter about 170 miles north, and including the counties of which we now write, was surveyed by the government and subsequently set apart as bounties to the soldiers of the regular army who had served in the war with Great Britian, and which had just preceded the date just given. The whole tract contained 207 entire townships and several fractions." Illinois was admitted to the union as a state in 1818. This military bounty land on the western side of the state was the reason that much of the land was settled in western Illinois decades before land further east in the state was settled. The tract was probably selected specifically because the Illinois and Mississippi rivers provided navigable access to the area for settlers. However, the impact of this availability of land was not cause for immediate settlement, for it was not until after the Blackhawk War in 1832, when Indians inhabiting this area of western Illinois were forced to resettle further west, that "settlements were quite rapid". One reason given for the settlement after the war with the Indians was that the 2,000 or so Illinois soldiers traversing the land during the war liked what they saw and were eager to move there. Bill A. Bertrand

My family (McHenry) also came from KY to IL, in White County. It is interesting to check the link http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/GenealogyMWeb/landsrch.html You can put family name in and the county to search and it will show the land purchased. It use to show the cost which in the 1830 and 1840's was about $1.25 per acre. Donna

My Monroe co KY ancestors left the area for Missouri in the 1870 and went thru Summer Shade and on to Missouri and then Kansas. My great granddad Bailey left Monroe Co at about the same time and homesteaded a 160 ac farm in Elk Creek (Texas Co) Missouri and paid one dollar and twenty five cents per acre. The document I received from the Bureau of Land Management helped to prove this price and all the questions that went with procedure of homesteading the land. Wish we could find more land at that price. Talley Bailey _critt61626@aol.com_ (mailto:critt61626@aol.com)

I have to add my two cents worth into this discussion. My gggrandfather Jacob Hiser and his brother Isaac being the second and third sons from Barren Co., KY migrated to Missouri about 1830, Isaac later moved to Illinois where they both raised large families. The first son, Benjamin Hiser stayed in Kentucky and also raised a large family, all three were farmers. Their father having been born in Pennsylvania and after the Revolution migrated to Virginia, Tennessee and Kentucky. We still have Hiser's in and around Glasgow, Kentucky as well as all over the U.S. If anyone reading this is related to the Hiser's and hasn't corresponded with me in the past ten years, please write me at bcluck@telepath.com. Guyetta in Oklahoma.

CLOPTON: Charles R, 53, married, s/o William & Lettie (Hart-Hart), consumption, 22 Nov 1892 Martha, 24, married, born Taylor Co, consumption, 15 Aug 1876. Roxanna, 1 yr & 4 mos, d/o Charles & Artilla, north side, flux, 1 Aug 1856 Susan, 1 yr & 3 mos, d/o Reuben & Mary, north side, flux, 10 Aug 1856 NOTE: Flux was very similar in symptons to cholera. CLYMER: Emory, 58 yrs & 4 days, married, born Queen Ann Co MD, s/o James & Mary, south side, dyspepsia, 4 Sept 1857. John H, 4 yrs & 11 mos, s/o James S & Mary S, typhoid, 2 Sept 1852. Molly?/Ruthy?, 90, married, born Queen Ann Co MD, d/o Laban & Sarah Blunt, old age, 20 Nov 1852. Peter Taylor, 6 mos, 9 days, s/o J W & Malvina, south side, flux, 2 Sept 1854. Peter Underwood, 6 mos, s/o James W & Melvina, head dropsy, June 1852. COATS: Alice, 4 yrs, 8 mos, 15 days, d/o W S & Mary, dysentary, 31 July 1855. Elizabeth, 72 yrs, 5 mos, 15 days, married, south side, kidneys, 15 May 1856. George S, 30, s/o W? W & M E (Hart-Hardin), typhoid, 11 Sep 1892. Judith, 66, single, born Barren Co, d/o George & Judith, southside, consumption, 17 Aug 1857. COLEMAN, Sarah D, 53 yrs, 4 mos, married, born Adair Co, south side, d/o Basil & Frances WHETT? (VA-VA), typhoid, 18 Feb 1861. COLLINS: Conrade C, 6 days, s/o G W & Catherine, southside, croup, 15 Mar 1858. No First, female, 24 hours, d/o George W & Catherine, southside, premature, 28 July 1852. William, 73 yrs, 11 mos, 26 days, married, born Prince Edward Co VA, northside, s/o William & Lydia (VA-VA), killed by the falling of a porch, 8 Mar 1861 William F, 55, married, born VA, s/o William & Elizabeth (VA-VA), 17 Sep 1876. COMPTON, Cassander E, 2, d/o R W & Sarah, fever, 30 May 1852. CONNELLY, Ann, 48 yrs, 8 mos, 10 days, no marital status shown, northside, born PA, d/o John & Margaret WARNER (PA-PA), heart inflammation, 21 July 1861. CONNERS?, Robert S,13, s/o William & T M, white swelling, 27 Feb 1852. CONNERS?, K, 35 male, born Canon L--- Ireland, northside, killed accidentally. He was listed after William HENSLEY wsho was also killed acccidentally, Nov 1859. CONSTANT: Elvira, 12 yrs & 16 days d/o William B & Delila, north side, consumption, 1 Feb 1859. James W, 6 wks, s/o John & Melvisa (Larue-Hart), 6 Dec 1875. CONYERS: Araminta A, 5 mos & 15 days, d/o W J & M E, southside, brain inflamation, 10 Dec 1856 Sarah A, 2 mos & 25 days, d/o W J & Martha, cold, 21 Feb 1855. COOK, Catharine J, 1 yr & 6 mos, northside, d/o Jesse COOK (parents borrn Barren Co), 15 Sept 1861. COOMBS, Martha Ann, 22 mos, d/o Adain & Mary F, flux, 30 July 1852 to be continued next week Sandi Sandi's Puzzlers: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gensoup/gorin/puz.html SCKY Links: http://www.public.asu.edu/~moore/Gorin.html GGP: http://ggpublishing.tripod.com/

I would like to add that the people who made the real money in the California Gold Rush were those who provided services. Those services included laundries, banks, hotels, grocery stores, etc. If you look at the names of the wealthy in California, you will see that is true. The gold miners were the source of that money. Also, the land in Virginia was worn from all the tobacco growing, no crop rotation, etc. That inspired the families to move to KY where it was said that the land was rich and untouched. When George Rogers Clark and Daniel Boone started spreading the word, many decided to move west. Judy Arthur

Some years ago I bought a little book at my local antiquarian book store. It was hard bound, but originally had been a pamphlet. It was published in 1850 by the railroads and described in glowing detail all of the attributes of the state of Missouri. Timber, minerals, etc. Clearly it was trying to promote the development of the state by industry as well as to encourage settlement of the state. I don't know how these booklets were distributed but I'm sure they were on trains, at all depots and who knows? My folks came from VA, to KY, to IN, TN, IL, to MO (c 1854) and some on to OR. Of course, letters to 'back home' by the earlier migrants inspired others. JoAnn

Federal Land Patents were made available in many of these areas in the early to mid 1800s. I have several relatives who bought many pieces of land in the areas where they decided to settle. Many bought six or more plots and I have two that bought more than 9 plots in MO over the space of a few years. Consider that after two, three or more generations of very large families growing up in KY and TN and the influx of even more people from the east, fertile land of any size came at a premium. When the federal government began offering land at such cheap prices, it was not hard to decide that one's opportunity to improve the fortunes of one's family lay somewhere else besides these heavily settled states. My relatives moved to counties around St Louis and Kansas City and to the Benton/Hickory/Polk/St Clair county west central MO area. Brec Morton

I agree, what a good discussion and it is good to understand why our families moved. One branch of my family (Buchanan) that I am tracing went from VA to KY to MO (bootheel) and beyond. I am still trying to figue out what was driving them. Of course I am still trying to find exactly what line in VA my branch came from. The Buchanan family, like so many others, name their children all the same names. Very difficult. The info on the migration to Il and Mo is interesting. Thanks Debra Kirtley dak55@earthlink.net