Hello All Check www.sagenealogy.co.za/Scribes.htm for more on this book - now available on CD. Regards Sharon View 1800s SOUTH AFRICAN PASSENGER LISTS at http://www.sagenealogy.co.za/DataArchive.htm SCRIBES PUBLISHING for Colonial Books on CD - visit http://www.sagenealogy.co.za/Scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "David and Mary Bossenger" <dmbza@telkomsa.net> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:59 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Under Lion's Head > Hi list, > I have access to the book, 'Under Lion's Head' by Marischal Murray, for 14 > days. It is the history of the area of Green/Sea Point from pre Dutch to > +-1964. It is full of names of prominent Capetonians. If anybody > suspects that they might have a mentioned name just ask and I will check the > index for you. > A fascinating snippet is that one of the little coves along the sea front > was known as Bosenberg's Bay after Dr Bosenberg. Fascinating in that I > grew up in CT and never knew that and that I went to school with the > grandson of that Bosenberg! > Regards, > David B > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Heather's South African Genealogy Help List > www.genealogy.co.za > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

How interesting! Could you check on the Cartwright family, and also Hutin Green(e) (commercial artist)? I would be so grateful. Thanks for the offer and have a great day. Coral Anna (Cartwright) Foster Mt. Solon, VA USA (ex CTN) -----Original Message----- From: David and Mary Bossenger [mailto:dmbza@telkomsa.net] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:00 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Under Lion's Head Hi list, I have access to the book, 'Under Lion's Head' by Marischal Murray, for 14 days. It is the history of the area of Green/Sea Point from pre Dutch to +-1964. It is full of names of prominent Capetonians. If anybody suspects that they might have a mentioned name just ask and I will check the index for you. A fascinating snippet is that one of the little coves along the sea front was known as Bosenberg's Bay after Dr Bosenberg. Fascinating in that I grew up in CT and never knew that and that I went to school with the grandson of that Bosenberg! Regards, David B ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Heather's South African Genealogy Help List www.genealogy.co.za ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hi list, I have access to the book, 'Under Lion's Head' by Marischal Murray, for 14 days. It is the history of the area of Green/Sea Point from pre Dutch to +-1964. It is full of names of prominent Capetonians. If anybody suspects that they might have a mentioned name just ask and I will check the index for you. A fascinating snippet is that one of the little coves along the sea front was known as Bosenberg's Bay after Dr Bosenberg. Fascinating in that I grew up in CT and never knew that and that I went to school with the grandson of that Bosenberg! Regards, David B

Hi Anne, Funny, but I was contemplating asking you about Nicolas (sic) SMITH yesterday after reading your thrilling news. What a lucky strike! No, I do not have a Charles William SMITH. I had just reached the SMITH name quite recently by finding Charlotte Maria SMITH was the mother one of my paternal great grandfathers, Jacob (Japie) Gabriel LODEWYKS. From her DN I find that Charolotte died at age 92 on 15 Nov 1939 (year of birth 1847) of Batts Road, Wynberg CP. She married Frederick LODEWYKS in Cape Town. Charolotte's parents are given as Nicholas SMITH and Caroline (maiden name unknown) and both deceased at the time. Their children were Benjamin, Jacob, Dora and Charolotte (married to Wentzel) If you find any connection please let me know. I have a few DNs on file for various Nicolas and Nicholas SMITHs but they do not appear to be connected. From various other DNs I find this family lived in Knutsford Road and Ottery Road, Wynberg. Also Hazendal Estate-Athlone , Herbrandt Street, Sevenoaks Road-Heathfield. This is most of what I have found so far. Regards, Elva > X-Message: #1 > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:57:37 -0400 > From: Lehmkuhl <rsa2can@sympatico.ca> > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040817205516.01c7a620@pop1.sympatico.ca> > Subject: SMITH - Wynberg > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > From: Elva Hanly <theaviary@bigpond.com> > I am originally from the Wynberg district, in fact I left 40 years ago > and > have taken on the job of searching for my families. > The families I am working on right now are: > SMITH - Nicolas and Caroline (Wynberg) - born about 1820's > Elva > Australia > > Hi Elva > I see that you're working on SMITH in Wynberg. > Do you perhaps have a Charles William SMITH in that line? > > __________/\/*******\/\______ > Anne Lehmkuhl > Ottawa, Canada > South African genealogy without borders: http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ > NEW BOOK - Routes to Roots >

Hi to all Listers, Wow! This List is certainly livening up. Let's keep up the momentum. Well, I have come to many dead ends right now. Over the last few weeks, after tidying my desk (weird behaviour), I started sorting computer files and taking stock of what I have gleaned so far. This lead to me once again reading over the Death Notices I have from the Cape Archives searching for any more clues or hidden agenda that I may have missed earlier. Decided to look at ancestors and their occupations etc. and realised that at least 3 Cape relatives I know of had worked in SW Africa (now Namibia) at various times. One had been involved in Fishing (pilchards, if I remember correctly but could be wrong) around Walvis Bay, another is said to have been a Guano collector (another smelly business) on Ichaboe Island and recently from a DN of a possible rellie that worked and died on Halifax Island. My grand uncle Johnny (grandfather's older brother by 18 years) apparently spent some time on these islands in the earlier part of 1900's. What he did I am not sure (probably part of the Guano "rush") but we seem to have the most photos of him, very well attired and posing with flashy cars and even a race-horse. I've heard that he 'did alright' and even had a bus service going at one time. I feverishly trawled the Internet for anything I could find, becoming side -tracked many times by information on Birdlife and Travel, but managed to get quite a bit of History as well. <<As early as 1828 an American captain Benjamin Morrel reported in great detail on the marine wealth of our coast which included ''whales, crawfish, scalefish, sea-bird eggs and seals''. Of Ichaboe island he writes ''The surface of this island is covered with bird manure to a depth of 25 ft''. Ichaboe is the best known of 14 off-shore islands with interesting names like Possession, Plum Pudding, Roast Beef, Halifax, Pomona, etc. on which bird and seal colonies exist, but it was only in 1844, after the worth of guano had become fully acknowledged in Europe, that the ''rush'' began. It is estimated that on Ichaboe alone 700 000 - 800 000 tons of guano were removed in a few years and that at times 300 ships were active among the islands. The guano layers were broken up and crushed by labourers, who at some point counted over 2000, loaded onto flat bottom rowing boats and transported to the ships anchored out at sea. This was arduous, dangerous work and at times squabbles broke out to the extent, that the British Navy had to dispatch a warship from Cape Town to maintain law and order. In 1867 the islands were incorporated into the Cape Colony and Britain even retained ownership after Germany colonised the mainland. Not until 1994 did South Africa hand over the islands to Namibia, together with the Walvis Bay enclave.>> I also noticed a DN was signed by the Superintendant at Government Guano Islands Office, Cape Town in 1912. I wonder if it would be possible to obtain documents from Cape archives or if there was a List of Men from Cape Town who were recruited in Guano-collecting. Any enlightenment would be appreciated. Regards, Elva

Hi Sharon, I noticed the FAMILY NAMES you mentioned and remembered seeing them amongst Church Records that I have. These may not be connected with yours but may be of benefit to someone else. Feel free to sift through this lot from Hans Heese Records of Paarl Marriages. If anyone knows where I can access Paarl Birth Registers please holler. The Pniel Congregational Church: Hendrik FORTUINSE X Wilhelmina ABRAHAMSE 25.4.1876 The Zionskerk Paarl: Willem CLAYTON X Elizabeth SYLVESTER 19.5.1863 Christian FORTUIN X sophia HENDRIKS 22.4.1873 David FORTUIN (Occ: cooper) age 22 X Rosina HENDRIKS age 22 on 17.8.1875 Jan FORTUIN age 25 X Sara SCHEEPERS age 22 on 20.4.1874 The Anglican Church Paarl: James CLAYTON X Sophy SYLVESTER 9.11.1908 Johannes Jacobus CLETON X Philida Elizabeth SYLVESTER 6.6.1899 Carolus FORTUIN X Elizabeth WILLEMSE (no date) David Pieter Johannes FORTUIN (carpenter, age 21) X Magdalena Johanna Cathleen WILLEMSE (age 20) 22.5.1883 Hendrik Jacobus CLATYON X Elizabeth Johanna ABRAHAMS 12.10.1891 Paarl Strooidak Kerk(Thatched Roof) Church: Josef Jacob Johannes FORTUIN X maria Johanna ABRAHAMS 17.6.1872 Jacobus Johannes FORTUIN X Sara Frederika WILLEMSE 4.8.1851 Kind regards, Elva > X-Message: #5 > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:20:47 +0200 > From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <002201c48477$ed571b60$7c4b27c4@chrish> > Subject: HECTOR/SYLVESTER > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="Windows-1252" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Back again - perhaps someone can help on other elements of the > HENDRICKSE family just posted: > > Wilhelmina Florina HECTOR (b 1916, Stellenbosch, d 1993 Diep River) was > granddaughter of Adonis Stephanus HECTOR and Magdalena GROENEWALD(T) - > looking for any info on them or Wilhelmina's mother Margaretha > SYLVESTER (1884-1961) whose mother was Grieta SYLVESTER. Grieta > apparently conceived Margaretha after the husband-to-be was killed by a > falling wall at the Volkskerk in Stellenbosch - this could be a huge > clue if it is documented somewhere. She went on to marry an ABRAMS. > > During the search for these people, I came across a death notice for > widow Caroline Henry (nee Sylvester) - non-European born in St Helena > in 1860. Died in Coningsby Str, Athlone 24/3/1934. No living children. > Nephew Edward Sylvester. Witnesses Francis Maria Hendricks, Geo H Zerf. > Though it doesn't necessarily point to a connection, it is amazing that > all the surnames of the HENDRICKSE family are mentioned here. Also > interesting is that the Sylvesters may be of St Helena origin - does > anyone know? > > Once again, all clues appreciated, > Sharon

Hello Elva Gee this is a real stinky subject - as far as I know they used to collect Guano from Robben Island and I think they collect it still from places like Lamberts Bay where there are tens of thousands of gannets that sit and poo on the harbour wharf. My ancestors lived in the hell hole of a place Port Nolloth in the 1800's commonly know as "port dump" - it is a town made of tin house's a bit like and an Victorian squatter camp !! Not that far away from South West Africa kind regards Heather Heather's South African Genealogy Help List at www.genealogy.co.za is soon due to be re-vamped and re-launched. This web site will have more content and more surprises.......please keep watching my home page for the latest announcements. Join the Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm Join the Cape Town Mailing list at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elva Hanly" <theaviary@bigpond.com> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:03 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] SW Africa-NAMIBIA connections Hi to all Listers, Wow! This List is certainly livening up. Let's keep up the momentum. Well, I have come to many dead ends right now. Over the last few weeks, after tidying my desk (weird behaviour), I started sorting computer files and taking stock of what I have gleaned so far. This lead to me once again reading over the Death Notices I have from the Cape Archives searching for any more clues or hidden agenda that I may have missed earlier. Decided to look at ancestors and their occupations etc. and realised that at least 3 Cape relatives I know of had worked in SW Africa (now Namibia) at various times. One had been involved in Fishing (pilchards, if I remember correctly but could be wrong) around Walvis Bay, another is said to have been a Guano collector (another smelly business) on Ichaboe Island and recently from a DN of a possible rellie that worked and died on Halifax Island. My grand uncle Johnny (grandfather's older brother by 18 years) apparently spent some time on these islands in the earlier part of 1900's. What he did I am not sure (probably part of the Guano "rush") but we seem to have the most photos of him, very well attired and posing with flashy cars and even a race-horse. I've heard that he 'did alright' and even had a bus service going at one time. I feverishly trawled the Internet for anything I could find, becoming side -tracked many times by information on Birdlife and Travel, but managed to get quite a bit of History as well. <<As early as 1828 an American captain Benjamin Morrel reported in great detail on the marine wealth of our coast which included ''whales, crawfish, scalefish, sea-bird eggs and seals''. Of Ichaboe island he writes ''The surface of this island is covered with bird manure to a depth of 25 ft''. Ichaboe is the best known of 14 off-shore islands with interesting names like Possession, Plum Pudding, Roast Beef, Halifax, Pomona, etc. on which bird and seal colonies exist, but it was only in 1844, after the worth of guano had become fully acknowledged in Europe, that the ''rush'' began. It is estimated that on Ichaboe alone 700 000 - 800 000 tons of guano were removed in a few years and that at times 300 ships were active among the islands. The guano layers were broken up and crushed by labourers, who at some point counted over 2000, loaded onto flat bottom rowing boats and transported to the ships anchored out at sea. This was arduous, dangerous work and at times squabbles broke out to the extent, that the British Navy had to dispatch a warship from Cape Town to maintain law and order. In 1867 the islands were incorporated into the Cape Colony and Britain even retained ownership after Germany colonised the mainland. Not until 1994 did South Africa hand over the islands to Namibia, together with the Walvis Bay enclave.>> I also noticed a DN was signed by the Superintendant at Government Guano Islands Office, Cape Town in 1912. I wonder if it would be possible to obtain documents from Cape archives or if there was a List of Men from Cape Town who were recruited in Guano-collecting. Any enlightenment would be appreciated. Regards, Elva ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

>From: Elva Hanly <theaviary@bigpond.com> >I am originally from the Wynberg district, in fact I left 40 years ago and >have taken on the job of searching for my families. >The families I am working on right now are: >SMITH - Nicolas and Caroline (Wynberg) - born about 1820's >Elva >Australia Hi Elva I see that you're working on SMITH in Wynberg. Do you perhaps have a Charles William SMITH in that line? __________/\/*******\/\______ Anne Lehmkuhl Ottawa, Canada South African genealogy without borders: http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ NEW BOOK - Routes to Roots

Please find below then next instalment ADSHADE Meaning: Probably from Adshead, Lancashire. Charles, b. London 29.6.1819, d. 1896. Cooper Swellendam. M. Swellendam 19.4.1841 Elizabeth S. Batten, b. Ireland 6.11.1823, d. Swellendam 1.9.1855, d.o. W. H. Batten, 8 c. AINSLIE* Meaning: From Annesley (Nottinghamshire) or Ansley (Warwickshire). William, b. Jedburgh, Scotland 6.10.1789, d. Spring Grobe, Eastern Cape, 5.3.1855. S.o. William Ainslie and Jane Plenderleith. Arr. 1.4.1833 on the Asia. Eastern Province pioneer. M. 4.9.1817 Jessie Pringle, sister of the poet Thomas Pringle, 6 c. AITCHESON Meaning: Son of Adam. Henry, b. Scotland 1789, d. Graaff-Reinet 18.5.1844. M. Graaff-Reinet 22.3.1829 Aletta J. Agron, 5 c. AITCHINSON Meaning: Son of Adam. Alexander, fr. Edinburgh, b. 1781, d. Cape Town 1825. Merchant. M. Cape Town 21.8.1819 Ann Hay, fr. Dublin, 3 c. AKERMAN Meaning: Farmer. (Sir) John William, b. Plymouth 16.8.1825, d. London 25.6.1905. S.o. James Akerman and Elizabeth Long. Arr. 1850. Natal businessman, politician and speaker of the Natal colonial parliament. M. 1850 Jane Stantial fr. Corsham; rem. 1878 Emma E. Brock née Brumby, 5 c. ALCOCK Meaning: Pet form of personal name Hal. Cornelius Bolton, b. England, ca. 1783, d. 1845. M. as wid. Cape Town 3.5.1813 Frances Murphy, b. ca. 1784, wid. E. Size, 2 c. ALDRED Meaning: Old counsel. William, b. Suffolk 1780, d. Cape Town 30.1.1852. M. Elizabeth Farrand, b. Manchester 1779, d. Cape Town 17.11.1852, 6 c. ALDRICH Meaning: Noble ruler. George, b. Beccles, Norfolk 4.7.1791, d. Glen Lynden 14.12.1855. S.o. Jeremiah and Susannah Aldrich. M. Graaff-Reinet 6.7.1818 Margaretha D. M. Botha, 6 c: ALEXANDER Meaning: Defender of men. Henry A., b. Londonderry, Ireland 1763, d. Cape Town 6.5.1818. Arr. 1808. Colonial Secretary and agricultural developer. M. 14.2.1807 Dorothy Rivers, b. 1788, d. 1864, 7 c. kind regards Heather Heather's South African Genealogy Help List at www.genealogy.co.za is soon due to be re-vamped and re-launched. This web site will have more content and more surprises.......please keep watching my home page for the latest announcements. Join the Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm Join the Cape Town Mailing list at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html

Whoops - spot the mistake - good thing this didn't go into print: "Grieta apparently conceived Margaretha after the husband-to-be was killed by a falling wall" Sorry - 'conceived' should be 'gave birth to' SA may have shades of Eden, but immaculate conceptions? Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:20 PM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] HECTOR/SYLVESTER > > Back again - perhaps someone can help on other elements of the HENDRICKSE family just posted: > > Wilhelmina Florina HECTOR (b 1916, Stellenbosch, d 1993 Diep River) was granddaughter of Adonis Stephanus HECTOR and Magdalena GROENEWALD(T) - looking for any info on them or Wilhelmina's mother Margaretha SYLVESTER (1884-1961) whose mother was Grieta SYLVESTER. Grieta apparently conceived Margaretha after the husband-to-be was killed by a falling wall at the Volkskerk in Stellenbosch - this could be a huge clue if it is documented somewhere. She went on to marry an ABRAMS. > > During the search for these people, I came across a death notice for widow Caroline Henry (nee Sylvester) - non-European born in St Helena in 1860. Died in Coningsby Str, Athlone 24/3/1934. No living children. Nephew Edward Sylvester. Witnesses Francis Maria Hendricks, Geo H Zerf. Though it doesn't necessarily point to a connection, it is amazing that all the surnames of the HENDRICKSE family are mentioned here. Also interesting is that the Sylvesters may be of St Helena origin - does anyone know? > > Once again, all clues appreciated, > Sharon > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Sharon As a child their used to be a Dr. Hector who was dentist in Wynberg who was partner to Dr. Nocke - the dentist with the terrible drill that terrified thousands of children !!! cheers Heather - whose teeth still are all her own Heather's South African Genealogy Help List at www.genealogy.co.za is soon due to be re-vamped and re-launched. This web site will have more content and more surprises.......please keep watching my home page for the latest announcements. Join the Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm Join the Cape Town Mailing list at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:20 PM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] HECTOR/SYLVESTER Back again - perhaps someone can help on other elements of the HENDRICKSE family just posted: Wilhelmina Florina HECTOR (b 1916, Stellenbosch, d 1993 Diep River) was granddaughter of Adonis Stephanus HECTOR and Magdalena GROENEWALD(T) - looking for any info on them or Wilhelmina's mother Margaretha SYLVESTER (1884-1961) whose mother was Grieta SYLVESTER. Grieta apparently conceived Margaretha after the husband-to-be was killed by a falling wall at the Volkskerk in Stellenbosch - this could be a huge clue if it is documented somewhere. She went on to marry an ABRAMS. During the search for these people, I came across a death notice for widow Caroline Henry (nee Sylvester) - non-European born in St Helena in 1860. Died in Coningsby Str, Athlone 24/3/1934. No living children. Nephew Edward Sylvester. Witnesses Francis Maria Hendricks, Geo H Zerf. Though it doesn't necessarily point to a connection, it is amazing that all the surnames of the HENDRICKSE family are mentioned here. Also interesting is that the Sylvesters may be of St Helena origin - does anyone know? Once again, all clues appreciated, Sharon ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hi Sharon Great to see you back in the swing of things...............maybe this can help Apparently the St. Helena Society held a meeting at Wynberg Boys High School last week which is where the Cape Town Family History Society meet as well. Keith Richardson the principal and friend of mine told me he would pass on the society details to me. Will let you have them as soon as I get it. kind regards Heather Heather's South African Genealogy Help List at www.genealogy.co.za is soon due to be re-vamped and re-launched. This web site will have more content and more surprises.......please keep watching my home page for the latest announcements. Join the Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm Join the Cape Town Mailing list at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:20 PM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] HECTOR/SYLVESTER Back again - perhaps someone can help on other elements of the HENDRICKSE family just posted: Wilhelmina Florina HECTOR (b 1916, Stellenbosch, d 1993 Diep River) was granddaughter of Adonis Stephanus HECTOR and Magdalena GROENEWALD(T) - looking for any info on them or Wilhelmina's mother Margaretha SYLVESTER (1884-1961) whose mother was Grieta SYLVESTER. Grieta apparently conceived Margaretha after the husband-to-be was killed by a falling wall at the Volkskerk in Stellenbosch - this could be a huge clue if it is documented somewhere. She went on to marry an ABRAMS. During the search for these people, I came across a death notice for widow Caroline Henry (nee Sylvester) - non-European born in St Helena in 1860. Died in Coningsby Str, Athlone 24/3/1934. No living children. Nephew Edward Sylvester. Witnesses Francis Maria Hendricks, Geo H Zerf. Though it doesn't necessarily point to a connection, it is amazing that all the surnames of the HENDRICKSE family are mentioned here. Also interesting is that the Sylvesters may be of St Helena origin - does anyone know? Once again, all clues appreciated, Sharon ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

The third part of the HENDRICKSE saga follows: Am looking for more info on Samuel DUDLEY (d 1883) and Elizabeth Ann WATSON (b 1823, d 1909, Cyprus Cottage, Newlands) - their son, Samuel Thomas, was classified as 'of mixed race' who married Rachel Magdalena VAN BLOMME(N)STEIN (have been unable to trace her parents), which means that either one (or both) of his parents were of 'mixed race'. There is a soldier Samuel DUDLEY listed in Philip's British immigrants - if he was this person, his wife must've have had mixed parentage. Has anyone encountered these people, or even these surnames who married 'mixed'? Also looking for parents of Sophia Maria FORDE (1889-1962), who married Samuel Thomas's son, Alfred David. Apparently her dad was of Italian origin and his name was sometimes spelt FORD. As with the others - any hints welcome! Sharon

Back again - perhaps someone can help on other elements of the HENDRICKSE family just posted: Wilhelmina Florina HECTOR (b 1916, Stellenbosch, d 1993 Diep River) was granddaughter of Adonis Stephanus HECTOR and Magdalena GROENEWALD(T) - looking for any info on them or Wilhelmina's mother Margaretha SYLVESTER (1884-1961) whose mother was Grieta SYLVESTER. Grieta apparently conceived Margaretha after the husband-to-be was killed by a falling wall at the Volkskerk in Stellenbosch - this could be a huge clue if it is documented somewhere. She went on to marry an ABRAMS. During the search for these people, I came across a death notice for widow Caroline Henry (nee Sylvester) - non-European born in St Helena in 1860. Died in Coningsby Str, Athlone 24/3/1934. No living children. Nephew Edward Sylvester. Witnesses Francis Maria Hendricks, Geo H Zerf. Though it doesn't necessarily point to a connection, it is amazing that all the surnames of the HENDRICKSE family are mentioned here. Also interesting is that the Sylvesters may be of St Helena origin - does anyone know? Once again, all clues appreciated, Sharon

Having posted all that Clarke info, I thought it might be worthwhile posting the 'mixed marriage' ancestors I am after. First off, Alfred HENRY (b 1868 St Helena, d 1922 Wynberg) married Eva Cornelia ROODE (b 1870 Wynberg, d 1924 Wynberg) - I know Eva's parents were Jacob and Sarah, but have been unable to trace any more info on this couple. It is possible that Jacob was Jacob Hartwieg, son of Helmon Hartwieg ROODE (b 1785 Paarl, died 1864, Vogelvallei, Piquetberg) and Maria Margaretha RYKHEER, as Eva's will states that her brother was Helmon. If anyone has come acrss any of these people or possible links to them I would be most grateful). Alfred and Eva had 4 children, William Richard, Jacob Daniel, Sarah Penelope and Vernon Robert. Which brings me to the next part. Sarah Penelope HENRY (b 1900, probably Wynberg) married Hendrik Jacobus or Johannes HENDRICKSE Jnr (b 1890, probably Stellenbosch), son of Hendrik HENDRI(C)KSE and Maria Johanna Margaretha HARTOGH (son of Pieter and Leentje), who lived in Ida's Valley, Stellenbosch. Hendrik's second wife was Sara(h) Johanna JORDAAN. Hendrik Jnr's father was also Hendrik, but his death notice says father was unknown and mother was Carolina KOOPMAN. The KOOPMANs and HARTOGHs I know were descended from Dutch men whose descendants married slaves, but I have been unable to find any direct links to these people. I am told that I might be able to find info on bapstisms, marriages etc in the DRC archives in Stellenbosch, which recently moved from Roeland Street - is it true that it costs R50 an hour? Are the Rhenish Church records also held here? Any feedback greatly appreciated, Sincerely Sharon Marshall

Hi Chandre, Also can't help unfortunately, and I don't want to raise false hopes (as there must have been loads of Clarkes form UK), but noting that your grandmother's second name was Young (possibly passed down from her mother or another ancestor - do you know?), I thought the following entry in Peter Philip's 'British Residents at the Cape 1795-1819' was worth quoting: YOUNG, William, master mariner. Arrived Table Bay 20.1.13 ex St Helena. 2.2.13 marriage of William Young, master of English merchantman 'Bonetta' of London, aged 23, and Catherine CLARKE of Portsmouth, aged 23. As master of 'Bonetta' he also arrived Table Bay 27.4.13 ex St Helena. As master of 'Brilliant' he arrived Table Bay ex Spithead on 17.6.15; ex Downs 26.6.16, 4.6.17, 3.8.18; ex Torbay 3.7.19. On 10.12.20 in English Church their twin daughters, Mary and Ann were baptised. On 31.7.21 permission to leave the colony for London in the 'William' was granted to the family. (the master of the 'William' was Capt RF Young). As I say, I don't want to raise any false hopes - there are 14 other YOUNGs (mainly soldiers) listed in this book and 16 CLARK(E)s - but what stands out that there may be a connection between these particular CLARK(E) and YOUNG families. The entry for CLARK, Andrew, single says he was a Moodie settler (Moodie was a Scotsman who brought out a group of artisans before the 1820 settlers) who arrived on the 'Brilliant' ex Downs on 4.6.17 (note this is the same ship which Young captained), requested permission to remain in the colony on 6.6.17. On 28.6.17 he and Thomas Spence opened a turner, cabinetmaker and joiner's shop at 38 Long Street. There is also a George YOUNG, Moodie settler, who arrived at the Cape with his wife, asked permission to remain in the colony on 30.3.18 under indenture to Moodie. On 31.5.18 their son George was baptised. On 26.5.48 he was witness to the will of William Young (if this was the above William Young - possibly a brother - it indicates he came back to the Cape after leaving in 1821). The point I am trying to make is that families of a feather did tend to flock together and cousins often married cousins etc, so it's not impossible that, if they were connected to start off with, there were more marriages down the line in these two families. That said, there are no less than 11 CLARK(E)s and 3 YOUNGs under the 1820 settler parties, not to mention all those that came out later - oh, another possibility: many families of those already here came out under subsidised joint emigration schemes in the 1850s. (Esme Bull's 'Aided Emigration to the Cape' lists many families who came out in this way.) It probably won't help you at this stage, as you'll need to work from yourself backwards, but,as one of the listers said, us genies are like dogs with a bone! Would be most interested to hear if it does though, and if anyone else has any more info on the above. Please shout if you would like any more look-ups from this book - or any help at all, Hang in there Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elva Hanly" <theaviary@bigpond.com> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: Re:[South-Africa-Cape-Town] Hi from new member to this list. > Hi Chandre and a warm welcome to the List. > > I am unable to help with your CLARK-CLARKE surname interest. However, > you may want to post your other family names as well. For instance, your > other grandmother's maiden, spouse and married name, dates as well. > > I am originally from the Wynberg district, in fact I left 40 years ago > and have taken on the job of searching for my families. > The families I am working on right now are: > SMITH - Nicolas and Caroline (Wynberg) - born about 1820's > LODEWYK/S - Frederick and Charlotte (Wynberg) - born about 1845-1847 > CLAYTON - Johnannes Jacobus and Spasie Katrina ( Paarl) - born about > 1850's > FORTUNE - Arthur and Maria (Paarl) - born about mid-late 1870's > > Besides searching for ancestors, this List is a great way of learning > about History, Culture and Family Traditions etc. > > All the best with your search, > > Elva > Australia > > > X-Message: #1 > > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:06:15 +0200 > > From: Chandre De Wet <chandre@tsf.org.za> > > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > > Message-Id: <1092650775.23403.36.camel@server.ltsp> > > Subject: Hi from new member to this list. > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Hi there, I am Chandre De Wet, from the northern suburbs of Cape Town, > > and I am interested in tracking down my family roots, although this is > > now a bit overdue, as my gran(my main source of info) died in January > > this year... As an introductory e-mail I will put down all I know, but I > > can possibly get more info from my mother and aunts. > > > > My grandmother (Anne Young Clarke) was a coloured woman born in 1922,I > > think near Kakamus, Upington area. Although she has spent many years in > > Franschoek and Strand. Her grandfather was one of 2 white brothers from > > England,and His name was Jesse Clark. His brother married white, while > > he married a "baster vrou" as she put it... ( i am not too sure if the > > surname is Clarke or Clark). > > > > We do have a photograph of him, and a painting too,although no > > information is written on it. > > > > Hope you guys can help me. > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Chandre and a warm welcome to the List. I am unable to help with your CLARK-CLARKE surname interest. However, you may want to post your other family names as well. For instance, your other grandmother's maiden, spouse and married name, dates as well. I am originally from the Wynberg district, in fact I left 40 years ago and have taken on the job of searching for my families. The families I am working on right now are: SMITH - Nicolas and Caroline (Wynberg) - born about 1820's LODEWYK/S - Frederick and Charlotte (Wynberg) - born about 1845-1847 CLAYTON - Johnannes Jacobus and Spasie Katrina ( Paarl) - born about 1850's FORTUNE - Arthur and Maria (Paarl) - born about mid-late 1870's Besides searching for ancestors, this List is a great way of learning about History, Culture and Family Traditions etc. All the best with your search, Elva Australia > X-Message: #1 > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:06:15 +0200 > From: Chandre De Wet <chandre@tsf.org.za> > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-Id: <1092650775.23403.36.camel@server.ltsp> > Subject: Hi from new member to this list. > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi there, I am Chandre De Wet, from the northern suburbs of Cape Town, > and I am interested in tracking down my family roots, although this is > now a bit overdue, as my gran(my main source of info) died in January > this year... As an introductory e-mail I will put down all I know, but I > can possibly get more info from my mother and aunts. > > My grandmother (Anne Young Clarke) was a coloured woman born in 1922,I > think near Kakamus, Upington area. Although she has spent many years in > Franschoek and Strand. Her grandfather was one of 2 white brothers from > England,and His name was Jesse Clark. His brother married white, while > he married a "baster vrou" as she put it... ( i am not too sure if the > surname is Clarke or Clark). > > We do have a photograph of him, and a painting too,although no > information is written on it. > > Hope you guys can help me. >

And a few of mine: BOUCHER I have found spelt BOWSHER, BOUCHIER, BOURCHIER. TALJAARD: TALLIARD, TALIARD TROLLIP: TROLLOPE, TROLLOP MICHEL: MICHIEL, MICHELS HENDRICKS(E:) HENDRIKS(E), HENDRIKZ(E), HENDRIKSZ(E) HECTOR: HECHTER ROODE: ROOD, RODE, RHODE HARTOGH: HARTOG, HARTOCH Leentje short for Magdalen(a) Ettie short for Henrietta Grieta short for Margaretha Appolonia: Aplonia, Apollonia The list goes on... Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 7:32 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] FAMILY NAMES Variations > Here's my penny's worth...ancestors in Scotland last name PHILP, but before immigrating to SA, decided to anglicize the name by adding another "i" to become PHILIP. > > German WASSERMEIER to English WATERMEYER > > First names: (male) FRANCIS to FRANK - my g/father's name & this I only found out this past week! > Regards > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Elva Hanly [mailto:theaviary@bigpond.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:31 PM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] FAMILY NAMES Variations > > > Hello to all Listers, > > Very often we become stuck with a Family Name, sometimes our very own > surname, and cannot find references when searching databases, church > records and various lists. > > Many have discovered that for various reasons their surname had changed > in spelling or pronunciation over the centuries, sometimes many times. > Occasionally we find a baptism entry, marriage entry and death notice > for the same person, but the name is recorded quite differently each > time. > > There would be many reasons for this, ie. illiteracy (shock and horror > at first but one gets over it), also Dutch, Huguenot and German names > changed in spelling and then some names were anglicised. > > For the experienced genealogist living in South Africa, very often this > is no problem. Many overseas listers with roots in SA are also familiar > with the variations having lived and grown up there. However, there must > be some younger listers who have never lived there and are at a total > loss for clues which would help them with searches. > Examples: > FAMILY NAMES > Villion - Viljoen > Snyman - Snijman > de Klerk - le Clerq > > NICKNAMES-PETNAMES > Johanna - Jannetje > Jacob/Jacobus - Japie > > Then there are instances in names with double letters where one is > dropped. > eg. Greeff - Greef > Some surnames ending with "s" have an "e" added > eg. Davids - Davidse, Abrahams/e, Jacobs/e > > And, one could go on and on............. > Perhaps other Listers could contribute by listing just a few examples > they have come across when doing their own searches. This will surely > help us all when we don't know what else to try. > > Regards, > > Elva > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Coral It is a diseases that I cannot get rid of - my husband has given up with me when he knows that genealogy is more important than South Africans' wining gold at the Olympic games - I give gold advice to people - and that I just love . kind regards Heather Join the Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm Join the Cape Town Mailing list at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> To: "Heather MacAlister" <heather@ancestors.co.za> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Hi from new member to this list. Heather MacAlister...I could picture each step along the way as you'd written it for Chandre...thanks for a delightful glimpse back into my past beloved Cape Town! Have a good evening, Coral Anna PS: Chandre, good luck w/ your research, as heather says, once the "bug" bites, it will get into your bloodstream and you are "hooked" for life! I hope you find all the info you need. You sound as though you have a lovely interesting ancestry to trace too! CA -----Original Message----- From: Heather MacAlister [mailto:heather@ancestors.co.za] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:13 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Hi from new member to this list. Hi Chandre Welcome to our mailing list. OK so you want to trace your family tree, be warned it is highly addictive and is a very powerful drug. You are lucky enough to have what I call "fresh bones" - you will have to make a trip to the Master of the Supreme Court in Parade Street, Cape Town. The Master's Office - Street Address: Parade Street, Cape Town. Opposite Wooltru House. This repository holds the Estate Papers of deceased persons from 1958 until present as well as Trusts. Also Insolvencies from 1986 onwards. You can search the indexes in the reading room, then make sure you have brought pen and paper with, and then you can proceed to the vault underneath the building where you will be handed the papers for your perusal. Be very wary as under normal circumstances will only let you have three estate papers per day. This office is open from 7.45 am until 1.0'clock on Mondays to Fridays. Tel 021-4108300. Park on the Grand Parade facing the City Hall - Parade street is the road to the left of the City Hall. Walk up one block - cross over to the right hand side of the road and it is the second building on your right after the barriers in the road - not even three minutes walk from the car park. You can then go into the main building and before you get to the counter there is a small passage and a room on the right hand side with a few ladies tying away on their computers. Ask one of them to look up the estate number on the computer - if she cannot help you go straight to the counter and ask the ladies there. Then ask them what room the estate will be in - they are kept in separate "groups" until the files are sent down to the vault underneath the building. Once you get to your correct destination you will be given a brown manila folder with "everything you need to know" - do take along pencil and a note book and if you have digital camera tuck it in your hand bag as the security chaps have a fetish for women with digital camera's for some unknown reason. In this folder there should be a death notice which "should" give details of parents, place of birth, age, ID number, place of marriage, marital status, spouse details, details on children and heirs etc, copy of ID book, will, liquidation and distribution account, tax certificates, newspaper clippings, burial details etc. Do let us know when you have been and if it was a success. kind regards Heather - wet and rainy, Lakeside Heather's South African Genealogy Help List at www.genealogy.co.za is soon due to be re-vamped and re-launched. This web site will have more content and more surprises.......please keep watching my home page for the latest announcements. Join the Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm Join the Cape Town Mailing list at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandre De Wet" <chandre@tsf.org.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:06 PM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Hi from new member to this list. Hi there, I am Chandre De Wet, from the northern suburbs of Cape Town, and I am interested in tracking down my family roots, although this is now a bit overdue, as my gran(my main source of info) died in January this year... As an introductory e-mail I will put down all I know, but I can possibly get more info from my mother and aunts. My grandmother (Anne Young Clarke) was a coloured woman born in 1922,I think near Kakamus, Upington area. Although she has spent many years in Franschoek and Strand. Her grandfather was one of 2 white brothers from England,and His name was Jesse Clark. His brother married white, while he married a "baster vrou" as she put it... ( i am not too sure if the surname is Clarke or Clark). We do have a photograph of him, and a painting too,although no information is written on it. Hope you guys can help me. ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Heather's South African Genealogy Help List www.genealogy.co.za ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hello Dunia Welcome to our mailing list - we are here to help you. There are plenty of experience genealogists on this mailing list although many of them are lurkers but it just takes someone like you to pull them out of the cupboard. Please send to the list your query or problem along with as many names, dates and places as possible and we will see what we can do to help you. kind regards Heather - wet, cold and rainy Lakeside Heather's South African Genealogy Help List at www.genealogy.co.za is soon due to be re-vamped and re-launched. This web site will have more content and more surprises.......please keep watching my home page for the latest announcements. Join the Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm Join the Cape Town Mailing list at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dunia mcMaster" <duniamac@telkomsa.net> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:02 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] New Hi Heather and Members, As a new member [and very new to searching]I shall introduce myself-- my name is Dunia McMaster and I also live back in the Fairest Cape [although wet at the moment] after being a mother and farmers wife in Ladysmith, KZN for 24 years. My maternal grandfather was born in Paneveyzs, Lithuania, went to the UK then came to SA. My grandmother's side, which was German and French but not sure if they came out in 1820 or not. My father's grandfather also came out here from Russia, he landed in PE, went to Bloemfontein where he worked and later married. This is what I'd like to trace and do some searching, so hopefully some kind member will be able to help steer me in the right direction! So far the 'brick walls' don't want to open! So I am also desperate for help. Regards Dunia ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Heather's South African Genealogy Help List www.genealogy.co.za ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237