Morning everyone Slightly off this topic in a way, but does anyone have any idea where I can find details of the burial of Angela of Bengal or her daughter Anna de Koningh. Angela was a Slave bought in 1654 by van Riebeeck together with three children and Domingo of Bengal reputedly her husband at the time, she was later sold to van Riebeeck's deputy who freed Angela and her children when he left the Cape in 1666 - making Angela the third slave freed I believe. Angela married Arnoldus Willemsz Basson in 1669. She died c 1720. Her daughter Anna de Koningh (little other than the surname is known about Anna's father) married Oloff Bergh b 1643 in Sweden. They married in the Cape c 1678 and Oloff was already a wealthy Burgher by then, later owning the farm Contantia and other farms and properties in the Cape Colony and in the Heerengracht. Is there anyone else on the list descended from Angela of Bengal or anyone researching any of the associated families who can point me in the right direction re Angela or Anna's burial place. Regards Thelma Johannesburg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:01 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave >I totally concur. Is anyone trying to do anything about it? Are they >thinking of getting up petitions, or the like? > > I remember trundling around the old cemetery in Simonstown and coming > across the graves of Fillipino sailors and 2 graves of Russian sailors, > and the feeling I had aobut these men buried so far from their homelands, > also wondering if their kin ever knew what happened to them. There are > also some Filippino graves above Kalk Bay. > > Makes my heart sore when I think of the many unmarked graves over the > centuries in all parts. All those lost souls. > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:40 PM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hello Coral Anna and Sharon M > Thanks for your emails and yes the dig was most interesting. The idea of > an > Indiana Jones or a genteel archaeologist with little paint brushes and > trowels I am sure does exist, but the truth is - excavating is back > breaking > work and it requires stamina and dedication. What amazed me was the > enthusiasm of experienced volunteers together with younger post grad > students, all under the guidance of professional historians and > archaeologists, who braved rain, mud and sun to carefully go about their > work. And always with respect for what they were dealing with. > > The question of analysing the remains is a very emotional one and one must > always take into account other people's feelings on the subject, but I > tend > to agree with Sharon M. There would be a tremendous benefit to the > communities who claim ties with those buried in these sites, if it can be > established who really is buried there, where they came from and possibly > how they died. No living person can claim descendancy from anyone buried > in > any of these unmarked or mass sites unless DNA tests etc. are done. Taking > into account that people other than slaves were also buried there - people > who did not fall within the accepted religions of the time, paupers, > unknowns and foreigners to name a few - it would make an interesting > study. > The origins of the remains and the circumstances of their lives, revealed > by > forensic tests, could put more things in perspective than would otherwise > come to light through other means. The history of Cape Town and the > descendants of the slave population that contribited so much to it I think > would be the richer for it. I also think the idea of a heritage site is > one > that should definitely be pursued. > regards > Sharon > > > > South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and > more - www.sagenealogy.co.za > Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD > www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:32 PM > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > >> First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they >> recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave >> trade >> and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage >> site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will >> the >> transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they >> wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think >> they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because >> their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east >> Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief >> that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! >> >> BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in >> downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it >> was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed >> to >> be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need >> something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below >> Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana >> Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, >> itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned >> (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that >> are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a >> small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, >> I >> think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how >> recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. >> >> The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you >> would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that >> could >> be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against >> the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the >> States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Foster, Coral A. >> To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM >> Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave >> >> >> Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must >> have >> been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have >> been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need >> to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting >> for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people >> researching slave heritage here in the states. >> from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah >> Valley of Virginia :O) >> Coral Anna >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM >> To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave >> >> >> Hi Coral Anna >> The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green >> Point. >> It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset >> Road. >> Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was >> awesome. >> Regards >> Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> >> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM >> Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave >> >> >> > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the >> exhumations >> > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any >> > designated burial ground???? >> > >> > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in >> Somerset >> > Hospital, if you don't mind? >> > >> > Thanks much >> > Coral Anna >> >> >> >> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >> Cape Town Family History Society >> www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm >> >> ============================== >> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your >> ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. >> Learn >> more: >> http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >> >> >> >> * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this >> transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally >> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or >> agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, >> distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these >> documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in >> error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or >> destruction of these documents. >> >> >> >> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >> www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >> www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > destruction of these documents. > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

According to J.D.F. Jones the author of "STORYTELLER" The many lives of Laurens van der Post, Eva (1643- 1674)married Pieter van Meerhoff at a state organised wedding and is a direct ancestor of Laurens van der Post (See page 84). The family register is setout in full at the beginning of the book. ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > I think Carol Anna's idea of initiating petition is a good one, especially now that DNA research is so much more progressed. I am off to Madagascar (from whence many of our slaves came and where Eva/Krotoa's husband, Pieter van Meerhof, was murdered on a slaving expedition in the mid-1600s) for 10 days (where incidentally they have a different 'bone' problem - thousands of ancestral bones have been stolen, and though they have no proof, it is thought they could have been used as a mystical cure for Aids), but on my return, am happy to do more in-depth research, contact the powers that be and set up a petition - I know plenty people who would sign. Any yeahs, nays or other ideas? > > Sharon M > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Heather MacAlister > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:52 AM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Morning all > > I agree with Sharon W about actually trying to identify these souls as this > would have an immense impact on the history and study on the background of > these people. We do know that there were outbreaks of all sorts of diseases > and the slaves were not the only affected people. So it would be nice to > actually know what the demise of those people were. > > I congratulate Antonia and their team for the hard work and dedication - > working on an archaeological dig like Prestwich Street was also an amazing > experience for me. > A heritage site is a must whatever the outcome may be > Not to say that I felt a real stiff the next day............ > kind regards > Heather > > > Visit South Africa's premier Genealogy + Family History Web sites : > www.familytree.co.za <http://www.familytree.co.za> + > www.ancestry.mweb.co.za <http://www.ancestry.mweb.co.za> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: 04 May 2005 10:40 PM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hello Coral Anna and Sharon M > Thanks for your emails and yes the dig was most interesting. The idea of an > Indiana Jones or a genteel archaeologist with little paint brushes and > trowels I am sure does exist, but the truth is - excavating is back breaking > work and it requires stamina and dedication. What amazed me was the > enthusiasm of experienced volunteers together with younger post grad > students, all under the guidance of professional historians and > archaeologists, who braved rain, mud and sun to carefully go about their > work. And always with respect for what they were dealing with. > > The question of analysing the remains is a very emotional one and one must > always take into account other people's feelings on the subject, but I tend > to agree with Sharon M. There would be a tremendous benefit to the > communities who claim ties with those buried in these sites, if it can be > established who really is buried there, where they came from and possibly > how they died. No living person can claim descendancy from anyone buried in > any of these unmarked or mass sites unless DNA tests etc. are done. Taking > into account that people other than slaves were also buried there - people > who did not fall within the accepted religions of the time, paupers, > unknowns and foreigners to name a few - it would make an interesting study. > The origins of the remains and the circumstances of their lives, revealed by > forensic tests, could put more things in perspective than would otherwise > come to light through other means. The history of Cape Town and the > descendants of the slave population that contribited so much to it I think > would be the richer for it. I also think the idea of a heritage site is one > that should definitely be pursued. > regards > Sharon > > > > South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and > more - www.sagenealogy.co.za > Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD > www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:32 PM > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they > > recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave trade > > and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage > > site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will the > > transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they > > wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think > > they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because > > their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east > > Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief > > that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! > > > > BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in > > downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it > > was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed to > > be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need > > something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below > > Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana > > Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, > > itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned > > (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that > > are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a > > small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, I > > think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how > > recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. > > > > The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you > > would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that could > > be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against > > the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the > > States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Foster, Coral A. > > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM > > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > > > Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have > > been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have > > been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need > > to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting > > for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people > > researching slave heritage here in the states. > > from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah > > Valley of Virginia :O) > > Coral Anna > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM > > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > > > Hi Coral Anna > > The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green > > Point. > > It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset > > Road. > > Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was > > awesome. > > Regards > > Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> > > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM > > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > > > > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the > > exhumations > > > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > > > designated burial ground???? > > > > > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in > > Somerset > > > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > > > > > Thanks much > > > Coral Anna > > > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > > Cape Town Family History Society > > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > > > ============================== > > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > > more: > > > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta > rgetid=5429 > > > > > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > > destruction of these documents. > > > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

I think Carol Anna's idea of initiating petition is a good one, especially now that DNA research is so much more progressed. I am off to Madagascar (from whence many of our slaves came and where Eva/Krotoa's husband, Pieter van Meerhof, was murdered on a slaving expedition in the mid-1600s) for 10 days (where incidentally they have a different 'bone' problem - thousands of ancestral bones have been stolen, and though they have no proof, it is thought they could have been used as a mystical cure for Aids), but on my return, am happy to do more in-depth research, contact the powers that be and set up a petition - I know plenty people who would sign. Any yeahs, nays or other ideas? Sharon M ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather MacAlister To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:52 AM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Morning all I agree with Sharon W about actually trying to identify these souls as this would have an immense impact on the history and study on the background of these people. We do know that there were outbreaks of all sorts of diseases and the slaves were not the only affected people. So it would be nice to actually know what the demise of those people were. I congratulate Antonia and their team for the hard work and dedication - working on an archaeological dig like Prestwich Street was also an amazing experience for me. A heritage site is a must whatever the outcome may be Not to say that I felt a real stiff the next day............ kind regards Heather Visit South Africa's premier Genealogy + Family History Web sites : www.familytree.co.za <http://www.familytree.co.za> + www.ancestry.mweb.co.za <http://www.ancestry.mweb.co.za> -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] Sent: 04 May 2005 10:40 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Hello Coral Anna and Sharon M Thanks for your emails and yes the dig was most interesting. The idea of an Indiana Jones or a genteel archaeologist with little paint brushes and trowels I am sure does exist, but the truth is - excavating is back breaking work and it requires stamina and dedication. What amazed me was the enthusiasm of experienced volunteers together with younger post grad students, all under the guidance of professional historians and archaeologists, who braved rain, mud and sun to carefully go about their work. And always with respect for what they were dealing with. The question of analysing the remains is a very emotional one and one must always take into account other people's feelings on the subject, but I tend to agree with Sharon M. There would be a tremendous benefit to the communities who claim ties with those buried in these sites, if it can be established who really is buried there, where they came from and possibly how they died. No living person can claim descendancy from anyone buried in any of these unmarked or mass sites unless DNA tests etc. are done. Taking into account that people other than slaves were also buried there - people who did not fall within the accepted religions of the time, paupers, unknowns and foreigners to name a few - it would make an interesting study. The origins of the remains and the circumstances of their lives, revealed by forensic tests, could put more things in perspective than would otherwise come to light through other means. The history of Cape Town and the descendants of the slave population that contribited so much to it I think would be the richer for it. I also think the idea of a heritage site is one that should definitely be pursued. regards Sharon South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and more - www.sagenealogy.co.za Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they > recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave trade > and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage > site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will the > transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they > wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think > they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because > their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east > Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief > that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! > > BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in > downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it > was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed to > be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need > something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below > Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana > Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, > itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned > (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that > are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a > small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, I > think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how > recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. > > The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you > would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that could > be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against > the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the > States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Foster, Coral A. > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have > been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have > been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need > to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting > for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people > researching slave heritage here in the states. > from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah > Valley of Virginia :O) > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hi Coral Anna > The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green > Point. > It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset > Road. > Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was > awesome. > Regards > Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the > exhumations > > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > > designated burial ground???? > > > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in > Somerset > > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > > > Thanks much > > Coral Anna > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > destruction of these documents. > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

I'm willing to do anything I can from over here to try & preserve & use every resource we have available to make families "whole" again. Enjoy your trip to Madagascar and be safe, Sharon-M. Coral Anna -----Original Message----- From: sharon marshall [mailto:smarshall@absamail.co.za] Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:59 AM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave I think Carol Anna's idea of initiating petition is a good one, especially now that DNA research is so much more progressed. I am off to Madagascar (from whence many of our slaves came and where Eva/Krotoa's husband, Pieter van Meerhof, was murdered on a slaving expedition in the mid-1600s) for 10 days (where incidentally they have a different 'bone' problem - thousands of ancestral bones have been stolen, and though they have no proof, it is thought they could have been used as a mystical cure for Aids), but on my return, am happy to do more in-depth research, contact the powers that be and set up a petition - I know plenty people who would sign. Any yeahs, nays or other ideas? Sharon M ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather MacAlister To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:52 AM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Morning all I agree with Sharon W about actually trying to identify these souls as this would have an immense impact on the history and study on the background of these people. We do know that there were outbreaks of all sorts of diseases and the slaves were not the only affected people. So it would be nice to actually know what the demise of those people were. I congratulate Antonia and their team for the hard work and dedication - working on an archaeological dig like Prestwich Street was also an amazing experience for me. A heritage site is a must whatever the outcome may be Not to say that I felt a real stiff the next day............ kind regards Heather Visit South Africa's premier Genealogy + Family History Web sites : www.familytree.co.za <http://www.familytree.co.za> + www.ancestry.mweb.co.za <http://www.ancestry.mweb.co.za> -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] Sent: 04 May 2005 10:40 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Hello Coral Anna and Sharon M Thanks for your emails and yes the dig was most interesting. The idea of an Indiana Jones or a genteel archaeologist with little paint brushes and trowels I am sure does exist, but the truth is - excavating is back breaking work and it requires stamina and dedication. What amazed me was the enthusiasm of experienced volunteers together with younger post grad students, all under the guidance of professional historians and archaeologists, who braved rain, mud and sun to carefully go about their work. And always with respect for what they were dealing with. The question of analysing the remains is a very emotional one and one must always take into account other people's feelings on the subject, but I tend to agree with Sharon M. There would be a tremendous benefit to the communities who claim ties with those buried in these sites, if it can be established who really is buried there, where they came from and possibly how they died. No living person can claim descendancy from anyone buried in any of these unmarked or mass sites unless DNA tests etc. are done. Taking into account that people other than slaves were also buried there - people who did not fall within the accepted religions of the time, paupers, unknowns and foreigners to name a few - it would make an interesting study. The origins of the remains and the circumstances of their lives, revealed by forensic tests, could put more things in perspective than would otherwise come to light through other means. The history of Cape Town and the descendants of the slave population that contribited so much to it I think would be the richer for it. I also think the idea of a heritage site is one that should definitely be pursued. regards Sharon South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and more - www.sagenealogy.co.za Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they > recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave trade > and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage > site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will the > transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they > wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think > they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because > their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east > Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief > that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! > > BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in > downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it > was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed to > be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need > something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below > Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana > Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, > itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned > (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that > are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a > small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, I > think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how > recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. > > The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you > would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that could > be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against > the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the > States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Foster, Coral A. > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have > been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have > been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need > to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting > for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people > researching slave heritage here in the states. > from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah > Valley of Virginia :O) > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hi Coral Anna > The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green > Point. > It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset > Road. > Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was > awesome. > Regards > Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the > exhumations > > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > > designated burial ground???? > > > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in > Somerset > > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > > > Thanks much > > Coral Anna > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > destruction of these documents. > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of these documents.

Morning all I agree with Sharon W about actually trying to identify these souls as this would have an immense impact on the history and study on the background of these people. We do know that there were outbreaks of all sorts of diseases and the slaves were not the only affected people. So it would be nice to actually know what the demise of those people were. I congratulate Antonia and their team for the hard work and dedication - working on an archaeological dig like Prestwich Street was also an amazing experience for me. A heritage site is a must whatever the outcome may be Not to say that I felt a real stiff the next day............ kind regards Heather Visit South Africa's premier Genealogy + Family History Web sites : www.familytree.co.za <http://www.familytree.co.za> + www.ancestry.mweb.co.za <http://www.ancestry.mweb.co.za> -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] Sent: 04 May 2005 10:40 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Hello Coral Anna and Sharon M Thanks for your emails and yes the dig was most interesting. The idea of an Indiana Jones or a genteel archaeologist with little paint brushes and trowels I am sure does exist, but the truth is - excavating is back breaking work and it requires stamina and dedication. What amazed me was the enthusiasm of experienced volunteers together with younger post grad students, all under the guidance of professional historians and archaeologists, who braved rain, mud and sun to carefully go about their work. And always with respect for what they were dealing with. The question of analysing the remains is a very emotional one and one must always take into account other people's feelings on the subject, but I tend to agree with Sharon M. There would be a tremendous benefit to the communities who claim ties with those buried in these sites, if it can be established who really is buried there, where they came from and possibly how they died. No living person can claim descendancy from anyone buried in any of these unmarked or mass sites unless DNA tests etc. are done. Taking into account that people other than slaves were also buried there - people who did not fall within the accepted religions of the time, paupers, unknowns and foreigners to name a few - it would make an interesting study. The origins of the remains and the circumstances of their lives, revealed by forensic tests, could put more things in perspective than would otherwise come to light through other means. The history of Cape Town and the descendants of the slave population that contribited so much to it I think would be the richer for it. I also think the idea of a heritage site is one that should definitely be pursued. regards Sharon South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and more - www.sagenealogy.co.za Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they > recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave trade > and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage > site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will the > transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they > wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think > they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because > their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east > Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief > that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! > > BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in > downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it > was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed to > be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need > something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below > Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana > Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, > itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned > (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that > are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a > small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, I > think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how > recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. > > The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you > would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that could > be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against > the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the > States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Foster, Coral A. > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have > been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have > been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need > to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting > for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people > researching slave heritage here in the states. > from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah > Valley of Virginia :O) > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hi Coral Anna > The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green > Point. > It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset > Road. > Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was > awesome. > Regards > Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the > exhumations > > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > > designated burial ground???? > > > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in > Somerset > > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > > > Thanks much > > Coral Anna > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > destruction of these documents. > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Hello Coral Anna and Sharon M Thanks for your emails and yes the dig was most interesting. The idea of an Indiana Jones or a genteel archaeologist with little paint brushes and trowels I am sure does exist, but the truth is - excavating is back breaking work and it requires stamina and dedication. What amazed me was the enthusiasm of experienced volunteers together with younger post grad students, all under the guidance of professional historians and archaeologists, who braved rain, mud and sun to carefully go about their work. And always with respect for what they were dealing with. The question of analysing the remains is a very emotional one and one must always take into account other people's feelings on the subject, but I tend to agree with Sharon M. There would be a tremendous benefit to the communities who claim ties with those buried in these sites, if it can be established who really is buried there, where they came from and possibly how they died. No living person can claim descendancy from anyone buried in any of these unmarked or mass sites unless DNA tests etc. are done. Taking into account that people other than slaves were also buried there - people who did not fall within the accepted religions of the time, paupers, unknowns and foreigners to name a few - it would make an interesting study. The origins of the remains and the circumstances of their lives, revealed by forensic tests, could put more things in perspective than would otherwise come to light through other means. The history of Cape Town and the descendants of the slave population that contribited so much to it I think would be the richer for it. I also think the idea of a heritage site is one that should definitely be pursued. regards Sharon South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and more - www.sagenealogy.co.za Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they > recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave trade > and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage > site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will the > transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they > wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think > they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because > their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east > Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief > that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! > > BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in > downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it > was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed to > be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need > something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below > Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana > Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, > itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned > (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that > are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a > small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, I > think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how > recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. > > The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you > would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that could > be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against > the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the > States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Foster, Coral A. > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have > been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have > been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need > to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting > for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people > researching slave heritage here in the states. > from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah > Valley of Virginia :O) > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hi Coral Anna > The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green > Point. > It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset > Road. > Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was > awesome. > Regards > Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the > exhumations > > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > > designated burial ground???? > > > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in > Somerset > > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > > > Thanks much > > Coral Anna > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > destruction of these documents. > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave trade and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will the transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed to be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, I think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that could be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... ----- Original Message ----- From: Foster, Coral A. To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people researching slave heritage here in the states. from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia :O) Coral Anna -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Hi Coral Anna The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green Point. It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset Road. Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was awesome. Regards Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the exhumations > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > designated burial ground???? > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in Somerset > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > Thanks much > Coral Anna ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of these documents. ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

I totally concur. Is anyone trying to do anything about it? Are they thinking of getting up petitions, or the like? I remember trundling around the old cemetery in Simonstown and coming across the graves of Fillipino sailors and 2 graves of Russian sailors, and the feeling I had aobut these men buried so far from their homelands, also wondering if their kin ever knew what happened to them. There are also some Filippino graves above Kalk Bay. Makes my heart sore when I think of the many unmarked graves over the centuries in all parts. All those lost souls. Coral Anna -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:40 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Hello Coral Anna and Sharon M Thanks for your emails and yes the dig was most interesting. The idea of an Indiana Jones or a genteel archaeologist with little paint brushes and trowels I am sure does exist, but the truth is - excavating is back breaking work and it requires stamina and dedication. What amazed me was the enthusiasm of experienced volunteers together with younger post grad students, all under the guidance of professional historians and archaeologists, who braved rain, mud and sun to carefully go about their work. And always with respect for what they were dealing with. The question of analysing the remains is a very emotional one and one must always take into account other people's feelings on the subject, but I tend to agree with Sharon M. There would be a tremendous benefit to the communities who claim ties with those buried in these sites, if it can be established who really is buried there, where they came from and possibly how they died. No living person can claim descendancy from anyone buried in any of these unmarked or mass sites unless DNA tests etc. are done. Taking into account that people other than slaves were also buried there - people who did not fall within the accepted religions of the time, paupers, unknowns and foreigners to name a few - it would make an interesting study. The origins of the remains and the circumstances of their lives, revealed by forensic tests, could put more things in perspective than would otherwise come to light through other means. The history of Cape Town and the descendants of the slave population that contribited so much to it I think would be the richer for it. I also think the idea of a heritage site is one that should definitely be pursued. regards Sharon South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and more - www.sagenealogy.co.za Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "sharon marshall" <smarshall@absamail.co.za> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > First Sharon speaking: if only we could get Unesco to budge SAHRA...they > recently held an exhibition at the Slave Lodge on the Atlantic slave trade > and I think it's been motivated that the Lodge be made a World Heritage > site, so moves there are...along with the new TESPC project which will the > transcription of slave and estate papers...just makes no sense that they > wouldn't want to analyse the bones. I stand to correction, but I think > they did once analyse a batch they found on the foreshore and because > their teeth were cut to fine points they could tell they were from east > Africa, which, along with other isotopic analysis, led them to the belief > that they were from a slave ship which ran aground. So interesting! > > BTW, I made a special effort to visit the African Slave Burial ground in > downtown Manhattan when I was in New York a couple of years ago, but it > was before they'd put any memorials in place, so was a bit disappointed to > be greeted by a patch of green grass. But I feel we really do need > something similar here in SA, seeing as how much of Green Point below > Somerset Road was a burial ground for anonymous slaves. I know the Tana > Baru overlooking Somerset Road has a few old Muslim graves, but that, > itself is a controversial issue as much of the land is privately owned > (and very valuable, having such a great view of the bay). The graves that > are there are overgrown, but it would make so much sense to make just a > small portion of it an official resting place for slaves of all origins, I > think. I also spotted a brass plaque on the highway - don't know how > recently that was put there, but I didn't see any publicity about it. > > The there's the old slave tree, which has a plaque on a stump which you > would step right over if you didn't know it was there...so much that could > be done, so little interest because slavery is largely forgotten against > the context of apartheid and marginalisation of indigenes...unlike the > States where 'apartheid' was the imported slave issue... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Foster, Coral A. > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:58 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have > been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have > been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need > to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting > for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people > researching slave heritage here in the states. > from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah > Valley of Virginia :O) > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > Hi Coral Anna > The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green > Point. > It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset > Road. > Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was > awesome. > Regards > Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > > > > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the > exhumations > > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > > designated burial ground???? > > > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in > Somerset > > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > > > Thanks much > > Coral Anna > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > destruction of these documents. > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of these documents.

Hi Coral Anna The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green Point. It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset Road. Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was awesome. Regards Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the exhumations > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > designated burial ground???? > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in Somerset > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > Thanks much > Coral Anna

Don't know if anyone's interested, but some more possible slave skeletons have been discovered in Chiappini Street, Cape Town - raising the debate once again about the 3000 or so skeletons exhumed in Green Point last year. After all the furore about actually allowing them to be exhumed in the first place, SAHRA has ordered that they be kept in closed boxes in Somerset Hospital - which archaeologists call a 'futile exercise', because besides diet, age and causes of death, forensic examination may even be able to throw more light on their place of ethnic origin. Don't know about anyone else, but I agree - can't see what the reason for exhuming them in the first place was if not to analyse. Perhaps others have an alternative view or suggestions on how we can move this motivation forward? Quite serendipitously, a symbolic burial service for all slaves was held earlier in the week on Freedom Day in an effort to 'restore identity' of the many Capetonians who descend from slaves. Just thought I'd mention it for those not in cape Town. Regards Sharon

Hello Other Sharon - thanks for info, now I can picture it. It must have been awesome. I think for that kind of thing, I would have loved to have been a forensic scientist. So many parts to the jigsaw puzzle that need to be put in place. The country of origin would be the most interesting for me. This is something that, of course, is major among the people researching slave heritage here in the states. from a beautifully gentle, blossom-filled spring day in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia :O) Coral Anna -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:31 AM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave Hi Coral Anna The location of the first excavation was at Prestwich Street, Green Point. It is quite close to the other 'official' burial grounds off Somerset Road. Quite an amazing thing to see unfolding - spent a day on site and it was awesome. Regards Sharon Warr - the other Sharon :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave > Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the exhumations > @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any > designated burial ground???? > > Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in Somerset > Hospital, if you don't mind? > > Thanks much > Coral Anna ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== Cape Town Family History Society www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of these documents.

Hello Listers I am looking for descendants of Dean STEWART & Jane ORR. Last appearance was on the 1881 census for Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland where Dean was a baker. A daughter, Catherine,(Kate) Orr STEWART bn 1859, New Kilpatrick, Dunbarton, SCT married Duncan DUNSMORE in Port Elizabeth in 1883 and by 1887 they had emigrated to Adelaide, South Australia. My query is did she travel to South Africa alone or with her parents as they seem to have disappeared from Scotland about that time. Witnesses to this marriage were George & Elizabeth SLATERN. Duncan DUNSNORE was a tailor. Other STEWART children were James, born 1846, Lanark, Jane born 1848, Lanark, Henry bn 1851, married Sarah WILSON, Margaret Orr, bn 1855, Cumbraes, Bute, SCT, Sarah, bn 1857 New Kilpatrick, Dunbarton, Dean bn 1861, New Kilpatrick married Helen RITCHIE, Peter Orr bn 1862 New Kilpatrick, married Annie T CREE & Annabella Orr STEWART bn 1871 Ayr. Henry died Cumbernaud, Dunbarton, SCT 1915 and Peter & Annie appear 1891 Census for Dunfermline,Fife, SCT Any bells ringing here! Regards - Monica Stanway, Hamilton, New Zealand

Thanks Sharon, how sad it all is. I missed the info about the exhumations @ Green Point - what was the location in GP? I don't recall any designated burial ground???? Would like to know what is finally decided about those placed in Somerset Hospital, if you don't mind? Thanks much Coral Anna -----Original Message----- From: sharon marshall [mailto:smarshall@absamail.co.za] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:26 AM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Fw: New slave grave * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of these documents.

Good morning everyone. And Sharon. Just joined this list ! and I have so many CT connections. My first queries..... 1. where can I find out about railway life/info of Charles GOODISON "Retired Union Railwayman" according to his DN He was born in Cape Town 31 October 1859 and died in England 16 January 1918. I have his will and his DN because he still owned property in CT at the time of his death. 2. He married Annie SALMON reportedly born at sea. Any information about her too would be very welcome. I have just discovered his granddaughter in Dorset. She is my second cousin. She wants to know as they were told he went FROM England to build the SA Railway. She did not know he had been born there. I believe this is because Charles' father was a bit of a baddie, embezzlement, fraud, desertion, divorce, jail.... you name it. Even my grandmother Charles' sister refused to tell us anything about their papa. Please point me in the right direction? Pat

Hi Pat Nice to see you on the list - There is a section in the Cape Archives which deals with railway matters but I cannot recall what the Prefix is. The railways made use of many artisans from Britain in the late 1850's early sixties and a lot of them are documented in Esmé Bull's book on British Immigration. A bit too early for your man. I will try and find out what section of the Cape Archives deals with the railways and let you know. Cheers Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Frykberg" <patfryk@clear.net.nz> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:00 PM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Railways > > > > Good morning everyone. And Sharon. Just joined this list ! and I have so > many CT connections. > My first queries..... > 1. where can I find out about railway life/info of Charles GOODISON > "Retired Union Railwayman" according to his DN > He was born in Cape Town 31 October 1859 and died in England 16 January > 1918. I have his will and his DN because he still owned property in CT at > the time of his death. > 2. He married Annie SALMON reportedly born at sea. Any information about > her too would be very welcome. > I have just discovered his granddaughter in Dorset. She is my second > cousin. She wants to know as they were told he went FROM England to build > the SA Railway. She did not know he had been born there. I believe this is > because Charles' father was a bit of a baddie, embezzlement, fraud, > desertion, divorce, jail.... you name it. Even my grandmother Charles' > sister refused to tell us anything about their papa. > Please point me in the right direction? > Pat > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > www.sagenealogy.co.za - passenger lists, genealogy links,CDs and books > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Will be back at end of May.

Thank you for this information Heather, it all helps to build a picture of my Grandfather's short visit to SA. I wonder if he had visited before for any reason and that was what made him join the police force there, or if it was the result of an advert in UK newspapers? I will email the Police Museum and see if they can provide me with any further details. I really appreciate your help, thank you, Cathy In a message dated 29/03/2005 07:01:05 GMT Standard Time, SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: Hello Cathy Have you obtained the death notice from the National Archives on Wilfred Webber ? DEPOT KAB SOURCE MOOC TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 6/9/455 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 2431 PART 1 DESCRIPTION WEBBER, WILFRED MARTIN. DEATH NOTICE. STARTING 19020000 ENDING 19020000 The head office for Familytree.co.za is just around the corner from Kloof Street and sadly I know little about this police station. I don't think that they could help you in anyway. I suggest that you write to: South African Police Force Museum Carries records of all ex-policeman in South African from 1900 - 1972. Tel: 012-3536190 E-mail: sapsmuseum@saps.org.za Kloof Street however is one of the trendiest places in Cape Town to eat and be seen. kind regards Heather

Hi Michael, I have just done a search on NAAIRS for you in the Cape Town Archives Repository and I couldn't find anything on Emma NEVILLE but found 4 on Robert NEVILLE, so am sending them on to you in case they are of any use. Good luck, Kind regards Carol Nortje (Australia) Document 1 of 4 DEPOT KAB SOURCE MOOC TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 6/9/187 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 4011 PART 1 DESCRIPTION NEVILLE, ROBERT HEDDLESTON. DEATH NOTICE. STARTING 18820000 ENDING 18820000 DEPOT KAB SOURCE MOOC TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 6/9/192 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 6000 PART 1 DESCRIPTION NEVILLE, ROBERT HENRY. DEATH NOTICE. STARTING 18830000 ENDING 18830000 DEPOT KAB SOURCE MOOC TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 13/1/437 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 20 PART 1 DESCRIPTION NEVILLE, ROBERT HENRY. LIQUIDATION AND DISTRIBUTION ACCOUNT. STARTING 18840000 ENDING 18840000 DEPOT KAB SOURCE MOOC TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 13/1/650 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 111 PART 1 DESCRIPTION NEVILLE, ROBERT HENRY. LIQUIDATION AND DISTRIBUTION ACCOUNT. SECOND AND FINAL ACCOUNT. STARTING 18920000 ENDING 18920000 ----- Original Message ----- From: <Submariner12345@aol.com> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 1:48 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] New Listing > Hi Everyone. > This is my first posting on the list so here goes. My name is Michael > and I live in Plymouth, England. > I am interested in trying to trace the family of Emma NEVILLE who was > born in Capetown, in 1848. Her fathers name was Robert. I know she left > Capetown and moved to England as she married one of my descendants, a Joseph COE, in > London on 11th June 1871, they then moved to Brighton, Sussex, England where > they lived until their death. I am not sure if Emma's parents were born or > married in Capetown. Can anyone help please. > > Many thanks > Michael > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Hi Everyone. This is my first posting on the list so here goes. My name is Michael and I live in Plymouth, England. I am interested in trying to trace the family of Emma NEVILLE who was born in Capetown, in 1848. Her fathers name was Robert. I know she left Capetown and moved to England as she married one of my descendants, a Joseph COE, in London on 11th June 1871, they then moved to Brighton, Sussex, England where they lived until their death. I am not sure if Emma's parents were born or married in Capetown. Can anyone help please. Many thanks Michael

I must confess Coral Anna that I have never been to St Saviours in Claremont. Think I should rectify that someday. I know that St George's Cathedral in Cape Town has quite a number of commemorative plaques - most interesting. Cheers Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Foster, Coral A." <Coral.Anna.Foster@wwrc.virginia.gov> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 7:53 PM Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Introduction > That's what I like Sharon....more pressure from the rear, what? > :O) > > Does St. Saviours in Claremont have aught of the ilk too? > luv > Coral Anna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Warr [mailto:snw@absamail.co.za] > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 2:59 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Introduction > > > Hi Colyn > Christchurch Kenilworth is part of the St John's Anglican Parish and is > situated in Summerley Road, Kenilworth. By the way, the interior of St > John's Church, Wynberg has a Book of Remembrance and numerous plaques > inside > the church. Worth looking at. St Paul's Anglican in Rondebosch also has a > memorial. The Reverend Pratt there is most helpful and an avid > genealogist!! > Regards > Sharon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Colyn Brookes" <culvwrcm@bmh.co.za> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:54 AM > Subject: RE: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Introduction > > >> >> >> Hi >> >> >>>That's very kind of you. I don't know the exact location of Oupa's >>>grave, >> but I can ask my >>>cousin before you go scrambling through a thousand pathways. >> >> Ok >> >>>The plaques - I'm assuming that they haven't been removed - were on the >> walls of Christ Church >>>in Kenilworth. When we worshipped there, Rev. Wakeling and Rev. Akehurst >> were the ministers as I >remember. I believe the names on the plaques >> would >> be JOHN DEAN CARTWRIGHT, FRANK EDWIN >>>CARTWRIGHT, and I can't remember the other, but any of CARTWRIGHT would >>>be >> my kin. >> >> No problem, which is Christ Church? I have had no reason the visit this >> church as yet. >> >> >>>I dimly remember & family cemetery and that the graves were moved out to >> Woltemade, but I >>>have no idea where they are situated. >> >> If the graves were moved, they will probably be in a section near the >> Crematorium opposite the >> Old Mutual building. There are a large number of graves that were moved >> from >> various cemeteries in the Cape Town area. >> >>>But, please, do not go out of your way. >> >> No porblem. I will do it when I am passing, which could be antyime.... >> But >> I will probably look into it next weekend. >> >> Colyn >> >> >> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >> Heather's South African Genealogy Help List >> www.genealogy.co.za >> >> ============================== >> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >> New content added every business day. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >> >> >> > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this > transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or > agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these > documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in > error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or > destruction of these documents. > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > Cape Town Family History Society > www.genealogy.co.za/society/socweb.htm > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > >