Hi Pat and the Listers SAB documents are not housed at the Archives but at the South African Library in Queen Vicoria Street, Cape Town. Regards Sharon South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and more - www.sagenealogy.co.za Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "patfryk" <patfryk@clear.net.nz> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:53 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Some kind soul? >I have just realised that there is a document in the Cape Archives that >relates directly to my Goodison. Why did I never notice this before?!! >Could someone going there look this up for me? > I should had, I realised, have asked Sharon when she did all the other > stuff. > > SAB URU Vol ll Ref 776 > 1910. Retirement & Award to C.G.GOODISON Chief Accountant late Cape > Governemnt Railways. > I'd love to have it. His granddaughter in Dorset is very interested but > believed he actually built railways!! > Many thanks who ever? > Pat > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > >

Hi to All the Listers St John's Anglican Church, Wynberg also dealt with military baptisms, marriages and burials as it was situated near to a very large garrison at Wynberg Camp. The registers run from 1831 - to present day. Regards Sharon Warr South African Genealogy - Lots of links, passenger lists, Immigrants and more - www.sagenealogy.co.za Scribes Publishing - South African historical resources on CD www.sagenealogy.co.za/scribes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "LB Seamons" <lubose@mstar2.net> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:11 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Capetown relatives named Bodily > Thanks Heather MacAlister for your off line communication. I have tried > to use the familytree.co.za website with little success. I even > subscribed and tried to find anything further I needed to do, but was > unsuccessful. It was surprising to me that I couldn't use the site as I > use all kinds of internet sites with good success. > > Also further questions to this response: > Unfortunately most passengers are not listed by their first names only > surnames and initials. In normal passenger arrivals only first and 2nd > class passengers got a mention and if you were economy or steerage their > was just > a number. > Troops unless you were the major general or of high ranking only number of > soldiers were listed. > These lists can only be found in old newspapers in the Cape Town Archives > and in KEW. > > Would the family have traveled with the troops? > If in 1st or 2nd class would they have surnamed and initialed all four or > just R Bodily and a family of 3 or something like that? > > In response to Heather MacAlister's response about: > With regards to the English churches in Cape Town - they could have > attended > the St. Georges Cathedral which is an Anglican church and was probably the > most famous for the amount for British soldiers who married in this church > from the garrison and the Chevonne Battery in Green Point. > > Was this church open in the years of 1847 to 1851? Is this one of the > churches that is shortly to be extracted and added to Ancestry? > > Thanks again to everyone for the help. > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > >

I have just realised that there is a document in the Cape Archives that relates directly to my Goodison. Why did I never notice this before?!! Could someone going there look this up for me? I should had, I realised, have asked Sharon when she did all the other stuff. SAB URU Vol ll Ref 776 1910. Retirement & Award to C.G.GOODISON Chief Accountant late Cape Governemnt Railways. I'd love to have it. His granddaughter in Dorset is very interested but believed he actually built railways!! Many thanks who ever? Pat

Thanks Heather MacAlister for your off line communication. I have tried to use the familytree.co.za website with little success. I even subscribed and tried to find anything further I needed to do, but was unsuccessful. It was surprising to me that I couldn't use the site as I use all kinds of internet sites with good success. Also further questions to this response: Unfortunately most passengers are not listed by their first names only surnames and initials. In normal passenger arrivals only first and 2nd class passengers got a mention and if you were economy or steerage their was just a number. Troops unless you were the major general or of high ranking only number of soldiers were listed. These lists can only be found in old newspapers in the Cape Town Archives and in KEW. Would the family have traveled with the troops? If in 1st or 2nd class would they have surnamed and initialed all four or just R Bodily and a family of 3 or something like that? In response to Heather MacAlister's response about: With regards to the English churches in Cape Town - they could have attended the St. Georges Cathedral which is an Anglican church and was probably the most famous for the amount for British soldiers who married in this church from the garrison and the Chevonne Battery in Green Point. Was this church open in the years of 1847 to 1851? Is this one of the churches that is shortly to be extracted and added to Ancestry? Thanks again to everyone for the help.

The Cape Town Family History Society will be holding it's next meeting on 20th August at Wynberg Boys High School. Their guest speaker will be Prof. Robert Shell talking on the Old Cape Slave Lodge. Time: 2.00 for 2:30 sharp Entrance for non members R10.00 per person including tea & biscuits R.S.V.P. Heather MacAlister on 082-8082251 or 7888188 after hours or email: heather@ancestors.co.za An afternoon not to be missed so please book your seats early kind thanks Heather Visit South Africa's premier Genealogy + Family History Web sites : www.familytree.co.za + www.ancestry.mweb.co.za

Thanks everyone for your remarks. Here is a quote from a short sketch for Robert Bodily: In December, 1845, he emigrated to Cape Colony, Africa, with his wife and two children, landing at Cape Town, Easter Sunday, 1846. The town had a population of about 10,000. Here he followed the business of an engineer in the royal service for about two years. During that time most of the batteries in Cape castle were rebuilt and every gun reset in the vicinity of Capetown. Are there records on the English side and the African side for passengar ships--or would they have been troop's deployment? Someone seems to known a fairly close departure and arrival time so it may not be so hard to find, if anyone knew where to look. Thanks again all; I have been so impressed with the current set of SA researchers.

Luan, I notice in the letter it says, "the Susan, the vessel before us." There was another ship "Athenian" the following year 1847, but you mention that your g-g-grandmother came to South Africa 1844/45. Perhaps this is just an estimate as her letter is dated 13 Sept 1847 ???? Yet, she does mention that the Winter of the previous year. Anyway, here is the reference also found at NAAIRS - I was unable to find a ref for 1844 or 1845. DEPOT KAB SOURCE GH TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 1/187 SYSTEM 00 REFERENCE 44 PART 1 DESCRIPTION PAPERS RECEIVED FROM SECRETARY OF STATE, LONDON: GENERAL DESPATCHES. ARRANGEMENTS MADE FOR TRANSPORTING EMIGRANTS FROM ENGLAND TO THE CAPE BY THE CHARTER SHIP "ATHENIAN". STARTING 1847 ENDING 1847 Perhaps worth looking into? Elva

Hi Luann, There is also a barque "Susan" which was grounded in March 1846 at Algoa Bay, listed in the Marine Casualty Database Southern African Coast. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/2216/text/MARITIME.TXT Regards, Elva >> Following is a letter written by Jane Pittam Bodily wife of Robert >> Bodily Sr. to an aunt in Great Britain: Cape Town, Sept. 13, 1847 >> Dear Aunt: I hope these few lines with our kind love will find you >> all well as it leaves us so at this time. >> My husband is still working in the engineers department. The work has >> been very slack this winter, there has been but two or three masons >> all winter. Robert and one more that came in the "Susan," the vessel >> before us.

Hi Luann, There is a reference to the ship "Susan" at the National Archives of South Africa - Database KAB (Cape Town). http://www.national.archives.gov.za/naairs.htm DEPOT KAB SOURCE GH TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 1/176 SYSTEM 00 REFERENCE 85 PART 1 DESCRIPTION PAPERS RECEIVED FROM SECRETARY OF STATE, LONDON: GENERAL DESPATCHES.ARRIVAL OF THE SHIP "SUSAN", THE FIRST VESSEL CONVEYING EMIGRANTS UNDER THE NEW BOUNTY SYSTEM. STARTING 1846 ENDING 1846 Good luck with your search, Elva > From: "LB Seamons" <lubose@mstar2.net> > Date: 26 July 2005 3:28:20 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: my Capetown ancestors named BODILY > > > Hi, I am Luann B Seamons of Preston, Idaho, USA. My Bodily ancestors > were in Capetown early in their stay in South Africa. I would like to > learn about the ship they came to South Africa in and the following > questions that I am asking along with a copy of a fun letter from my > ancestor apparently written in her own hand and here transcribed by a > descendant. They were only in Capetown for only a couple of years > while the work was going on to renew the battlements there. > > I am submitting this recently found letter from my great-great > grandmother who was born in England in 1816 came to South Africa > 1844/45 and left for the United States 1860. My hope is an exchange of > some ideas of where I can find more information about them. I am > encouraged by the transcription of the Sidbury Angelican Church done > recently where two children are baptized in 1853 & 1855. > > Mention is made of school, free school, in another history they call > it grammar school. Apparently Robert Jr and William attended school > while they were living in Cape Town. William later attended school in > about 1856 in Port Elizabeth while the family lived at the "Inn" on > Bushman's River. Are there any school records available? > > Also Grandfather Robert Bodily was a stone mason working in the > engineers department on the battery and castle. Someone please tell me > what this refers to and if there might be some records we could get > into to find out more about his work while at Cape Town? > > Also Note the mention of a church building. The Bodilys are described > as staunch members of the Church of England. What church might she > have been referring to in 1847 in Capetown? What is the likely church > to find the baptism of the son James born while in Capetown; and Mary > Ann in 1849 and Edwin in 1851 born in Port Elizabeth? > > I hope you enjoy the letter as much as I did; it was like a window > into their lives. > > Following is a letter written by Jane Pittam Bodily wife of Robert > Bodily Sr. to an aunt in Great Britain: Cape Town, Sept. 13, 1847 Dear > Aunt: I hope these few lines with our kind love will find you all well > as it leaves us so at this time. Thank God for it. My children have > been poorly with a cold or I may say complaint that most of the > children in the town have had, but thank God, they are all better. I > had the doctor to my baby for he was so ill, and there were so many of > the young children that died, that we thought it better to have > something in time, for here was four or five little children buried in > a day in the English burying ground, for days together. > > The burying ground is not joining the church as at home. I should say > it is a mile from the English church and they don't take the corpse to > the church and if they read the burial service at the grave they > demand twenty dollars, that is 30 shillings, and 15 shillings for > breaking the ground. > > My boys are grown very much, they both go to school. I have sent > William to the free school but I don't see that he learns any good at > all for there are so many boys, so that I now send them to a woman > that lives near us. I think it is better to pay a little and have them > kept more strict. > > I daresay you have heard father's letter my little boy's name is > James. He grows very nicely, is now four months old, he was born on > the 6th (sixth) of May. Most people say he is like little Robert, he > is a contended, little dear, and we don't make a little fuss with him. > > My husband is still working in the engineers department. The work has > been very slack this winter, there has been but two or three masons > all winter. Robert and one more that came in the "Susan," the vessel > before us. Now they have set two more hands on but there has been so > little work going on in town so that there has been a great many out > of employment all winter. >

Luan that is the MOST interesting letter. \thank you for sharing it. I guess there will be many on this list to reply to specific questions. So I'll watch for a while. Thank yhou. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "LB Seamons" <lubose@mstar2.net> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:28 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] my Capetown ancestors named BODILY > Hi, I am Luann B Seamons of Preston, Idaho, USA. My Bodily ancestors were > in Capetown early in their stay in South Africa. I would like to learn > about the ship they came to South Africa in and the following questions > that I am asking along with a copy of a fun letter from my ancestor > apparently written in her own hand and here transcribed by a descendant. > They were only in Capetown for only a couple of years while the work was > going on to renew the battlements there. > > I am submitting this recently found letter from my great-great grandmother > who was born in England in 1816 came to South Africa 1844/45 and left for > the United States 1860. My hope is an exchange of some ideas of where I > can find more information about them. I am encouraged by the transcription > of the Sidbury Angelican Church done recently where two children are > baptized in 1853 & 1855. > > Mention is made of school, free school, in another history they call it > grammar school. Apparently Robert Jr and William attended school while > they were living in Cape Town. William later attended school in about 1856 > in Port Elizabeth while the family lived at the "Inn" on Bushman's River. > Are there any school records available? > > Also Grandfather Robert Bodily was a stone mason working in the engineers > department on the battery and castle. Someone please tell me what this > refers to and if there might be some records we could get into to find out > more about his work while at Cape Town? > > Also Note the mention of a church building. The Bodilys are described as > staunch members of the Church of England. What church might she have been > referring to in 1847 in Capetown? What is the likely church to find the > baptism of the son James born while in Capetown; and Mary Ann in 1849 and > Edwin in 1851 born in Port Elizabeth? > > I hope you enjoy the letter as much as I did; it was like a window into > their lives. > > Following is a letter written by Jane Pittam Bodily wife of Robert Bodily > Sr. to an aunt in Great Britain: Cape Town, Sept. 13, 1847 Dear Aunt: I > hope these few lines with our kind love will find you all well as it > leaves us so at this time. Thank God for it. My children have been poorly > with a cold or I may say complaint that most of the children in the town > have had, but thank God, they are all better. I had the doctor to my baby > for he was so ill, and there were so many of the young children that died, > that we thought it better to have something in time, for here was four or > five little children buried in a day in the English burying ground, for > days together. > > The burying ground is not joining the church as at home. I should say it > is a mile from the English church and they don't take the corpse to the > church and if they read the burial service at the grave they demand twenty > dollars, that is 30 shillings, and 15 shillings for breaking the ground. > > My boys are grown very much, they both go to school. I have sent William > to the free school but I don't see that he learns any good at all for > there are so many boys, so that I now send them to a woman that lives near > us. I think it is better to pay a little and have them kept more strict. > > I daresay you have heard father's letter my little boy's name is James. He > grows very nicely, is now four months old, he was born on the 6th (sixth) > of May. Most people say he is like little Robert, he is a contended, > little dear, and we don't make a little fuss with him. > > My husband is still working in the engineers department. The work has been > very slack this winter, there has been but two or three masons all winter. > Robert and one more that came in the "Susan," the vessel before us. Now > they have set two more hands on but there has been so little work going on > in town so that there has been a great many out of employment all winter. > > We now hear that the headquarters is to be removed to the frontier so I > dare say there will be a great many men going, but I don't think Robert > will go, for as he says, there will always be work in the battery and at > the castle, and he has been very fortunate to have some good jobs there > and he thinks it better to stop a year or two and see. > > We hear that the farmers and all that can take cattle are to have them so > as people say it will be encouragement for them to try their best. Some > say it will soon be over now, some say not for years but I don't know. Who > knows? I suppose we shall have the meat cheaper when it is. Beef is now > four d mutton 3d (six cents). Butter is now a dollar and milk is now at 2 > 1/4 shilling (fifty four cents) a bottle. > > We have had a good deal of rain this winter so that there is more grass > for the cows which makes it so cheap. Vegetables are very dear. Potatoes > are now 2d (4 cents) the pound and I myself have gave 4 1/2 for a brocily > that was only just enough for dinner. When they first come in they are > gone if any size. Onions are very dear and scarce. I gave 1 three fourths > d (3 1/2 cents) for one the other day but the young ones are coming in so > they will be cheaper. > > House rent is very dear at the Cape. We have been paying $20.00 a month > for this last eight months and you can't get a place under if it is in any > respectable part. You may get houses for eight or ten dollars but then it > is up some back yard where there are all sorts of characters living. But > the houses are most of them large ones so then a person takes one and lets > rooms. We were in a part of one for eight months. We gave nine dollars for > a front room and seven for a back one, but it is not like having a place > to yourself. If there are three or four families living in one house you > all have to cook at one fireplace in the kitchen for there are very few > houses that there are fireplaces in the rooms and most of the houses have > flat roofs. There are, now and then one slated house to be seen that has > been built within a year or two and then they are only one story. But way > out of town. It is more healthy and it is near Robert's work. They tell me > that five or six years ago ther! > e was only one house dropt here and now it will soon be all buildings, for > every few days you may see some new one began. > > Robert has been buying some ground, it is about five minutes walk from > where we now live, and as soon as we can we shall run us up a little house > on it. It is about 160 feet square so that we shall have enough for to > keep goats and I say we might keep a cow as you can turn them out to graze > with getting a boy to look after them. And we shall be able to grow us a > few vegetables in the winter if we live so long, it is no good to think of > gardening in the summer as the southeasters destroy everything unless it > is mounded in with a very high wall. People make two or three times the > money he gave for it which was nine pound. (forty four dollars) as they > are buying ground farther up every little time. > > And we hear there is ground being bought to build a church very near to us > so that if we should at any time wish to go up the country we could sell > it, but I don't like the thoughts of going on the water again and if we > have plenty good luck I should rather stop at the Cape though there are a > great many going to leave, some going to Port Natal. We hear that is a > fine country and in a flourishing state. Some are going to Port Adelaide > but perhaps it may not be found as it is represented. > > It is now the Malay's new year, as they call it. They fast thirty days. > They neither eat nor drink from sunrising to sun setting for thirty days, > and when the time is up they have a feast and call it their "New Year." > They illuminate their burying ground for three nights and take coffee and > cookies, that is cakes, and set by the graves. They are a rum set of > people, they will steal anything they can. The Malay women wear red > handkerchiefs around their head, no bonnets, and they have sleeves and > their hair all combed back from their forehead, and make a great roll > which is fastened up with a very large pin. They all wear ear rings, they > are very proud and some of them dress very fine in their way. I have seen > some of the women with a nice silk dress as any lady would wear, only > sleeves of another color. > > We have had a long cold winter to what we had last year and several heavy > rains. We had one very heavy thunder storm three weeks ago, and the > hailstones lay that we could pick up a handful which is the first I have > seen since I have been in the colony, but we now begin to have the > southeaster come on again which shows us the summer is coming and the > flowers are spring that I say it makes me think of April at home. > > I forget if in my letter to father, said they had been lighting the town > with gas the beginning of winter. It looks very pretty at an evening to > stand at our door and see the lights all up the streets for we live a > little farther up, so that we have a fine view. I can't never shall say I > like the Cape as my home nor should if I had my relations living with me > but I make myself contented and think I ought to be thankful that we have > our health and are in a way of getting a good living. For, thank God, I > can say we are if Robert does but have his health as it all depends upon > him, but I would never say to any one come out, for if you look at > comforts stop at home for I often think of my poor father's words. He told > me we should not be able to get things at home and so I find it. > > Oh, how I should like a nice bucket of apples to make some apple > dumplings, for the apples we get here are not good, they have no taste as > ours have, though the fruit is plentiful in the summer, and after all it > is not the fruit we could get at home. > > My William begins to talk dutch a little, he often speaks to me in dutch, > something he has learned of the children at school, and I tell him to > speak as I can understand him for I shall never learn their talk. They > call bread "brood." The Dutch people are so very fond of coffee they get > their cup of coffee as soon as they are up and then they breakfast about > ten o'clock but their living is very different to ours. > > I shall tire you with my scribble and must say that Robert joins me in > love to my dear grandmother, father, brother and sister and Mr. Pittam. > Also to uncle and Emma and William. My children often talk of them and > William says, "When Willy cousin comes he shall show him something, and he > often talks about going to milk old Derry and going with his grandfather > to feed the pig. When you see uncle Joseph please to give our loves to > them all. I will write to some to them before long for I really are almost > ashamed that I write home so seldom, for I think you must think that I > have forgotten you all, but I put off from time to time, but I often think > you all over and can see you all in your homes though you form no ideas of > me in mine. But I must say that I shall be very happy to hear from any of > you when you can write, as I love to hear about home though I cannot see > it. Please to give our loves to Robert's friends when you see them, and I > must say to all uncles, aunts and cousi! > ns and any inquiring friends, and accept the same yourself, from your > affectionate niece, Jane Bodily > > Comments written about Jane Pittam Bodily by her grandson Joseph Bodily: > After his (Robert Bodily) death his widow, Jane Pittam Bodily, went and > lived with her daughter Jane Elizabeth Layton until her death 22 Sept. > 1904. > > The last time I saw my grandmother, was 21 July 1901. Grandmother always > impressed me as a person of unusual strength and ruggedness. She was above > average size with unusually large hands and long arms with a body which at > one time must have been as tough as a raw hide string for there was not an > ounce of surplus flesh. Bone and sinew were as self evident as the strings > on a bass fiddle. Yet she was one of the most considerate, unselfish and > nonself-centered aged persons I have ever met. > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 > >

Hello Luann What an amazing story and absolutely awesome account of your ancestors lives. Lets hope we can all help you put the final pieces of the puzzle together. With regards to the English churches in Cape Town - they could have attended the St. Georges Cathedral which is an Anglican church and was probably the most famous for the amount for British soldiers who married in this church from the garrison and the Chevonne Battery in Green Point. There were others such as the Union Congregational Church, St. Mary's Cathedral and few other smaller English Churches. The other main military churches are again St. Johns in Wynberg and St. Francis in Simonstown. The burial ground in Cape Town was probably the burial ground of St. Georges Cathedral in Somerset Road which became defunct prior to 1970. Documents of these people can be searched for on the National Archives web site at www.familytree.co.za - unfortunately it is only an index and the documents cannot be ordered or seen on line. You will need to either write personally to the archives or engage in the service of a private researcher. I did do a quick search on the archives web site and came up with this document: DEPOT KAB SOURCE CSC TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 2/2/1/107 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 10 PART 1 DESCRIPTION RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS OF PROVISIONAL CASE. JULY, AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER. ROBERT BODILY VERSUS ANTONIO CHIAPPINI. STARTING 18530000 ENDING 18530000 There are more records but I thought I would not spoil your fun. good luck and kind regards Heather Visit South Africa's premier Genealogy + Family History Web sites : www.familytree.co.za <http://www.familytree.co.za> + www.ancestry.mweb.co.za <http://www.ancestry.mweb.co.za> -----Original Message----- From: LB Seamons [mailto:lubose@mstar2.net] Sent: 25 July 2005 07:28 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] my Capetown ancestors named BODILY Hi, I am Luann B Seamons of Preston, Idaho, USA. My Bodily ancestors were in Capetown early in their stay in South Africa. I would like to learn about the ship they came to South Africa in and the following questions that I am asking along with a copy of a fun letter from my ancestor apparently written in her own hand and here transcribed by a descendant. They were only in Capetown for only a couple of years while the work was going on to renew the battlements there. I am submitting this recently found letter from my great-great grandmother who was born in England in 1816 came to South Africa 1844/45 and left for the United States 1860. My hope is an exchange of some ideas of where I can find more information about them. I am encouraged by the transcription of the Sidbury Angelican Church done recently where two children are baptized in 1853 & 1855. Mention is made of school, free school, in another history they call it grammar school. Apparently Robert Jr and William attended school while they were living in Cape Town. William later attended school in about 1856 in Port Elizabeth while the family lived at the "Inn" on Bushman's River. Are there any school records available? Also Grandfather Robert Bodily was a stone mason working in the engineers department on the battery and castle. Someone please tell me what this refers to and if there might be some records we could get into to find out more about his work while at Cape Town? Also Note the mention of a church building. The Bodilys are described as staunch members of the Church of England. What church might she have been referring to in 1847 in Capetown? What is the likely church to find the baptism of the son James born while in Capetown; and Mary Ann in 1849 and Edwin in 1851 born in Port Elizabeth? I hope you enjoy the letter as much as I did; it was like a window into their lives. Following is a letter written by Jane Pittam Bodily wife of Robert Bodily Sr. to an aunt in Great Britain: Cape Town, Sept. 13, 1847 Dear Aunt: I hope these few lines with our kind love will find you all well as it leaves us so at this time. Thank God for it. My children have been poorly with a cold or I may say complaint that most of the children in the town have had, but thank God, they are all better. I had the doctor to my baby for he was so ill, and there were so many of the young children that died, that we thought it better to have something in time, for here was four or five little children buried in a day in the English burying ground, for days together. The burying ground is not joining the church as at home. I should say it is a mile from the English church and they don't take the corpse to the church and if they read the burial service at the grave they demand twenty dollars, that is 30 shillings, and 15 shillings for breaking the ground. My boys are grown very much, they both go to school. I have sent William to the free school but I don't see that he learns any good at all for there are so many boys, so that I now send them to a woman that lives near us. I think it is better to pay a little and have them kept more strict. I daresay you have heard father's letter my little boy's name is James. He grows very nicely, is now four months old, he was born on the 6th (sixth) of May. Most people say he is like little Robert, he is a contended, little dear, and we don't make a little fuss with him. My husband is still working in the engineers department. The work has been very slack this winter, there has been but two or three masons all winter. Robert and one more that came in the "Susan," the vessel before us. Now they have set two more hands on but there has been so little work going on in town so that there has been a great many out of employment all winter. We now hear that the headquarters is to be removed to the frontier so I dare say there will be a great many men going, but I don't think Robert will go, for as he says, there will always be work in the battery and at the castle, and he has been very fortunate to have some good jobs there and he thinks it better to stop a year or two and see. We hear that the farmers and all that can take cattle are to have them so as people say it will be encouragement for them to try their best. Some say it will soon be over now, some say not for years but I don't know. Who knows? I suppose we shall have the meat cheaper when it is. Beef is now four d mutton 3d (six cents). Butter is now a dollar and milk is now at 2 1/4 shilling (fifty four cents) a bottle. We have had a good deal of rain this winter so that there is more grass for the cows which makes it so cheap. Vegetables are very dear. Potatoes are now 2d (4 cents) the pound and I myself have gave 4 1/2 for a brocily that was only just enough for dinner. When they first come in they are gone if any size. Onions are very dear and scarce. I gave 1 three fourths d (3 1/2 cents) for one the other day but the young ones are coming in so they will be cheaper. House rent is very dear at the Cape. We have been paying $20.00 a month for this last eight months and you can't get a place under if it is in any respectable part. You may get houses for eight or ten dollars but then it is up some back yard where there are all sorts of characters living. But the houses are most of them large ones so then a person takes one and lets rooms. We were in a part of one for eight months. We gave nine dollars for a front room and seven for a back one, but it is not like having a place to yourself. If there are three or four families living in one house you all have to cook at one fireplace in the kitchen for there are very few houses that there are fireplaces in the rooms and most of the houses have flat roofs. There are, now and then one slated house to be seen that has been built within a year or two and then they are only one story. But way out of town. It is more healthy and it is near Robert's work. They tell me that five or six years ago ther! e was only one house dropt here and now it will soon be all buildings, for every few days you may see some new one began. Robert has been buying some ground, it is about five minutes walk from where we now live, and as soon as we can we shall run us up a little house on it. It is about 160 feet square so that we shall have enough for to keep goats and I say we might keep a cow as you can turn them out to graze with getting a boy to look after them. And we shall be able to grow us a few vegetables in the winter if we live so long, it is no good to think of gardening in the summer as the southeasters destroy everything unless it is mounded in with a very high wall. People make two or three times the money he gave for it which was nine pound. (forty four dollars) as they are buying ground farther up every little time. And we hear there is ground being bought to build a church very near to us so that if we should at any time wish to go up the country we could sell it, but I don't like the thoughts of going on the water again and if we have plenty good luck I should rather stop at the Cape though there are a great many going to leave, some going to Port Natal. We hear that is a fine country and in a flourishing state. Some are going to Port Adelaide but perhaps it may not be found as it is represented. It is now the Malay's new year, as they call it. They fast thirty days. They neither eat nor drink from sunrising to sun setting for thirty days, and when the time is up they have a feast and call it their "New Year." They illuminate their burying ground for three nights and take coffee and cookies, that is cakes, and set by the graves. They are a rum set of people, they will steal anything they can. The Malay women wear red handkerchiefs around their head, no bonnets, and they have sleeves and their hair all combed back from their forehead, and make a great roll which is fastened up with a very large pin. They all wear ear rings, they are very proud and some of them dress very fine in their way. I have seen some of the women with a nice silk dress as any lady would wear, only sleeves of another color. We have had a long cold winter to what we had last year and several heavy rains. We had one very heavy thunder storm three weeks ago, and the hailstones lay that we could pick up a handful which is the first I have seen since I have been in the colony, but we now begin to have the southeaster come on again which shows us the summer is coming and the flowers are spring that I say it makes me think of April at home. I forget if in my letter to father, said they had been lighting the town with gas the beginning of winter. It looks very pretty at an evening to stand at our door and see the lights all up the streets for we live a little farther up, so that we have a fine view. I can't never shall say I like the Cape as my home nor should if I had my relations living with me but I make myself contented and think I ought to be thankful that we have our health and are in a way of getting a good living. For, thank God, I can say we are if Robert does but have his health as it all depends upon him, but I would never say to any one come out, for if you look at comforts stop at home for I often think of my poor father's words. He told me we should not be able to get things at home and so I find it. Oh, how I should like a nice bucket of apples to make some apple dumplings, for the apples we get here are not good, they have no taste as ours have, though the fruit is plentiful in the summer, and after all it is not the fruit we could get at home. My William begins to talk dutch a little, he often speaks to me in dutch, something he has learned of the children at school, and I tell him to speak as I can understand him for I shall never learn their talk. They call bread "brood." The Dutch people are so very fond of coffee they get their cup of coffee as soon as they are up and then they breakfast about ten o'clock but their living is very different to ours. I shall tire you with my scribble and must say that Robert joins me in love to my dear grandmother, father, brother and sister and Mr. Pittam. Also to uncle and Emma and William. My children often talk of them and William says, "When Willy cousin comes he shall show him something, and he often talks about going to milk old Derry and going with his grandfather to feed the pig. When you see uncle Joseph please to give our loves to them all. I will write to some to them before long for I really are almost ashamed that I write home so seldom, for I think you must think that I have forgotten you all, but I put off from time to time, but I often think you all over and can see you all in your homes though you form no ideas of me in mine. But I must say that I shall be very happy to hear from any of you when you can write, as I love to hear about home though I cannot see it. Please to give our loves to Robert's friends when you see them, and I must say to all uncles, aunts and cousi! ns and any inquiring friends, and accept the same yourself, from your affectionate niece, Jane Bodily Comments written about Jane Pittam Bodily by her grandson Joseph Bodily: After his (Robert Bodily) death his widow, Jane Pittam Bodily, went and lived with her daughter Jane Elizabeth Layton until her death 22 Sept. 1904. The last time I saw my grandmother, was 21 July 1901. Grandmother always impressed me as a person of unusual strength and ruggedness. She was above average size with unusually large hands and long arms with a body which at one time must have been as tough as a raw hide string for there was not an ounce of surplus flesh. Bone and sinew were as self evident as the strings on a bass fiddle. Yet she was one of the most considerate, unselfish and nonself-centered aged persons I have ever met. ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books www.sagenealogy.co.za ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Luann - how wonderful of you to share that letter of your g-g-g/mother's. One could almost see the things she was writing about. Good luck with your hunting, I am sure you will get lots of information from this site, I know I have, and am so grateful for it. Kind regards, Coral Anna (Cartwright) Foster ex Cape Town - now in Mt. Solon, VA USA. -----Original Message----- From: LB Seamons [mailto:lubose@mstar2.net] Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 1:28 PM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] my Capetown ancestors named BODILY Hi, I am Luann B Seamons of Preston, Idaho, USA. My Bodily ancestors were in Capetown early in their stay in South Africa. I would like to learn about the ship they came to South Africa in and the following questions that I am asking along with a copy of a fun letter from my ancestor apparently written in her own hand and here transcribed by a descendant. They were only in Capetown for only a couple of years while the work was going on to renew the battlements there. * CONFIDENTIALITY/PRIVACY NOTICE - The documents included in this transmission may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or action taken in reliance on the contents of these documents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of these documents.

Hi, I am Luann B Seamons of Preston, Idaho, USA. My Bodily ancestors were in Capetown early in their stay in South Africa. I would like to learn about the ship they came to South Africa in and the following questions that I am asking along with a copy of a fun letter from my ancestor apparently written in her own hand and here transcribed by a descendant. They were only in Capetown for only a couple of years while the work was going on to renew the battlements there. I am submitting this recently found letter from my great-great grandmother who was born in England in 1816 came to South Africa 1844/45 and left for the United States 1860. My hope is an exchange of some ideas of where I can find more information about them. I am encouraged by the transcription of the Sidbury Angelican Church done recently where two children are baptized in 1853 & 1855. Mention is made of school, free school, in another history they call it grammar school. Apparently Robert Jr and William attended school while they were living in Cape Town. William later attended school in about 1856 in Port Elizabeth while the family lived at the "Inn" on Bushman's River. Are there any school records available? Also Grandfather Robert Bodily was a stone mason working in the engineers department on the battery and castle. Someone please tell me what this refers to and if there might be some records we could get into to find out more about his work while at Cape Town? Also Note the mention of a church building. The Bodilys are described as staunch members of the Church of England. What church might she have been referring to in 1847 in Capetown? What is the likely church to find the baptism of the son James born while in Capetown; and Mary Ann in 1849 and Edwin in 1851 born in Port Elizabeth? I hope you enjoy the letter as much as I did; it was like a window into their lives. Following is a letter written by Jane Pittam Bodily wife of Robert Bodily Sr. to an aunt in Great Britain: Cape Town, Sept. 13, 1847 Dear Aunt: I hope these few lines with our kind love will find you all well as it leaves us so at this time. Thank God for it. My children have been poorly with a cold or I may say complaint that most of the children in the town have had, but thank God, they are all better. I had the doctor to my baby for he was so ill, and there were so many of the young children that died, that we thought it better to have something in time, for here was four or five little children buried in a day in the English burying ground, for days together. The burying ground is not joining the church as at home. I should say it is a mile from the English church and they don't take the corpse to the church and if they read the burial service at the grave they demand twenty dollars, that is 30 shillings, and 15 shillings for breaking the ground. My boys are grown very much, they both go to school. I have sent William to the free school but I don't see that he learns any good at all for there are so many boys, so that I now send them to a woman that lives near us. I think it is better to pay a little and have them kept more strict. I daresay you have heard father's letter my little boy's name is James. He grows very nicely, is now four months old, he was born on the 6th (sixth) of May. Most people say he is like little Robert, he is a contended, little dear, and we don't make a little fuss with him. My husband is still working in the engineers department. The work has been very slack this winter, there has been but two or three masons all winter. Robert and one more that came in the "Susan," the vessel before us. Now they have set two more hands on but there has been so little work going on in town so that there has been a great many out of employment all winter. We now hear that the headquarters is to be removed to the frontier so I dare say there will be a great many men going, but I don't think Robert will go, for as he says, there will always be work in the battery and at the castle, and he has been very fortunate to have some good jobs there and he thinks it better to stop a year or two and see. We hear that the farmers and all that can take cattle are to have them so as people say it will be encouragement for them to try their best. Some say it will soon be over now, some say not for years but I don't know. Who knows? I suppose we shall have the meat cheaper when it is. Beef is now four d mutton 3d (six cents). Butter is now a dollar and milk is now at 2 1/4 shilling (fifty four cents) a bottle. We have had a good deal of rain this winter so that there is more grass for the cows which makes it so cheap. Vegetables are very dear. Potatoes are now 2d (4 cents) the pound and I myself have gave 4 1/2 for a brocily that was only just enough for dinner. When they first come in they are gone if any size. Onions are very dear and scarce. I gave 1 three fourths d (3 1/2 cents) for one the other day but the young ones are coming in so they will be cheaper. House rent is very dear at the Cape. We have been paying $20.00 a month for this last eight months and you can't get a place under if it is in any respectable part. You may get houses for eight or ten dollars but then it is up some back yard where there are all sorts of characters living. But the houses are most of them large ones so then a person takes one and lets rooms. We were in a part of one for eight months. We gave nine dollars for a front room and seven for a back one, but it is not like having a place to yourself. If there are three or four families living in one house you all have to cook at one fireplace in the kitchen for there are very few houses that there are fireplaces in the rooms and most of the houses have flat roofs. There are, now and then one slated house to be seen that has been built within a year or two and then they are only one story. But way out of town. It is more healthy and it is near Robert's work. They tell me that five or six years ago ther! e was only one house dropt here and now it will soon be all buildings, for every few days you may see some new one began. Robert has been buying some ground, it is about five minutes walk from where we now live, and as soon as we can we shall run us up a little house on it. It is about 160 feet square so that we shall have enough for to keep goats and I say we might keep a cow as you can turn them out to graze with getting a boy to look after them. And we shall be able to grow us a few vegetables in the winter if we live so long, it is no good to think of gardening in the summer as the southeasters destroy everything unless it is mounded in with a very high wall. People make two or three times the money he gave for it which was nine pound. (forty four dollars) as they are buying ground farther up every little time. And we hear there is ground being bought to build a church very near to us so that if we should at any time wish to go up the country we could sell it, but I don't like the thoughts of going on the water again and if we have plenty good luck I should rather stop at the Cape though there are a great many going to leave, some going to Port Natal. We hear that is a fine country and in a flourishing state. Some are going to Port Adelaide but perhaps it may not be found as it is represented. It is now the Malay's new year, as they call it. They fast thirty days. They neither eat nor drink from sunrising to sun setting for thirty days, and when the time is up they have a feast and call it their "New Year." They illuminate their burying ground for three nights and take coffee and cookies, that is cakes, and set by the graves. They are a rum set of people, they will steal anything they can. The Malay women wear red handkerchiefs around their head, no bonnets, and they have sleeves and their hair all combed back from their forehead, and make a great roll which is fastened up with a very large pin. They all wear ear rings, they are very proud and some of them dress very fine in their way. I have seen some of the women with a nice silk dress as any lady would wear, only sleeves of another color. We have had a long cold winter to what we had last year and several heavy rains. We had one very heavy thunder storm three weeks ago, and the hailstones lay that we could pick up a handful which is the first I have seen since I have been in the colony, but we now begin to have the southeaster come on again which shows us the summer is coming and the flowers are spring that I say it makes me think of April at home. I forget if in my letter to father, said they had been lighting the town with gas the beginning of winter. It looks very pretty at an evening to stand at our door and see the lights all up the streets for we live a little farther up, so that we have a fine view. I can't never shall say I like the Cape as my home nor should if I had my relations living with me but I make myself contented and think I ought to be thankful that we have our health and are in a way of getting a good living. For, thank God, I can say we are if Robert does but have his health as it all depends upon him, but I would never say to any one come out, for if you look at comforts stop at home for I often think of my poor father's words. He told me we should not be able to get things at home and so I find it. Oh, how I should like a nice bucket of apples to make some apple dumplings, for the apples we get here are not good, they have no taste as ours have, though the fruit is plentiful in the summer, and after all it is not the fruit we could get at home. My William begins to talk dutch a little, he often speaks to me in dutch, something he has learned of the children at school, and I tell him to speak as I can understand him for I shall never learn their talk. They call bread "brood." The Dutch people are so very fond of coffee they get their cup of coffee as soon as they are up and then they breakfast about ten o'clock but their living is very different to ours. I shall tire you with my scribble and must say that Robert joins me in love to my dear grandmother, father, brother and sister and Mr. Pittam. Also to uncle and Emma and William. My children often talk of them and William says, "When Willy cousin comes he shall show him something, and he often talks about going to milk old Derry and going with his grandfather to feed the pig. When you see uncle Joseph please to give our loves to them all. I will write to some to them before long for I really are almost ashamed that I write home so seldom, for I think you must think that I have forgotten you all, but I put off from time to time, but I often think you all over and can see you all in your homes though you form no ideas of me in mine. But I must say that I shall be very happy to hear from any of you when you can write, as I love to hear about home though I cannot see it. Please to give our loves to Robert's friends when you see them, and I must say to all uncles, aunts and cousi! ns and any inquiring friends, and accept the same yourself, from your affectionate niece, Jane Bodily Comments written about Jane Pittam Bodily by her grandson Joseph Bodily: After his (Robert Bodily) death his widow, Jane Pittam Bodily, went and lived with her daughter Jane Elizabeth Layton until her death 22 Sept. 1904. The last time I saw my grandmother, was 21 July 1901. Grandmother always impressed me as a person of unusual strength and ruggedness. She was above average size with unusually large hands and long arms with a body which at one time must have been as tough as a raw hide string for there was not an ounce of surplus flesh. Bone and sinew were as self evident as the strings on a bass fiddle. Yet she was one of the most considerate, unselfish and nonself-centered aged persons I have ever met.

Situation: c.1865. A man deserts his wife and children, flees to another country, neither answers her letters nor sends her money. He is away for 9 years. On his return he sues her for divorce on the grounds of adultery as she was living with another man. Question Does the law say that after 7 years he can be considered dead and she free to remarry? Does she actually have to get a legal document agreeing to his apparent death? I'll acknowledge all your help in the final story when my family history is complete. Not too far now. Pat

NOW I have got it exactly! Thanks to you all. It must have taken some time by ox wagon or donkey cart or horseback to get there in 1860 to trade. there is a lovely site about Sutherland.(Rudoph sent the google eg). Sutherland with Amandelboom and Rogge....(partly indistinct) all appear on the document. so now I have the precise location. Again my fulsome thanks. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Lehmkuhl" <ZAFamilyHistory@yahoo.ca> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:17 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: OK I got the map Amandelboom/sutherland > >>According to P.J. Nienaber's book "Plek Naam Woordeboek" Amandelboom was >>the name of Williston in the Cape Province. >>Regards >>Sharon Warr > > More possibilities? > > Williston > On 10 July 1768, Johan Abraham NEL of Stellenbosch rested near a fountain > close to the Sak River during the birth of his son, planting an almond > tree in honour of the event. > > In 1845, Johann Heinrich LUTZ of Switzerland established a Rhenish mission > station named Amandelboom (Almond tree) at this spot. In 1883 the name was > changed to Williston, in honour of the Colonial Secretary of the time, > Colonel Hampden WILLIS. > > Williston became an official district in 1926. Today it is part of the > Karoo Highland Municipality which cover Williston, Fraserburg and > Sutherland. Williston is an important road junction that links many of the > towns of the Hantam Karoo. It lies in the heart of sheep-farming country. > The local museum is housed in an old mission station building that dates > from 1884. > > When Fraserburg was first established, there were only three roads leading > down from the plateau. These were Oukloof Pass in the direction of > Beaufort West, Komsberg Pass to the Little Roggeveld, and the Posje Pass > which followed the post coach route to Aberdeen. The road to Amandelboom > was built in 1874. > > __________/\/******\/\______ > Anne Lehmkuhl, London, UK > http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ > Information & the South African Genealogical Research Directory > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 > >

Thanks Lesley. Nostalgic isnt it? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Abelsohn" <lesdabelsohn@optusnet.com.au> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. > Pat > Claremont is not too far from Wynberg if you go along the upper roads so > from Hershel Road to Tennant Road and those areas it is very near - > Wynberg Village was my last address in Cape Town and it was all part of > "Oude Wynberg" all part of the old farmlands. > lesley > sydney > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "patfryk" <patfryk@clear.net.nz> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. > > >> Thanks Ann. And that's not far from Wynberg if I remember right.? >> If so worth a note. >> Pat >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anne Lehmkuhl" <ZAFamilyHistory@yahoo.ca> >> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 7:18 AM >> Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. >> >> >>> >>>>From: patfryk <patfryk@clear.net.nz> >>>>I still don't know what and where the divided estate "The Grove" is/was >>>>Pat >>> >>> Hi Pat >>> Maybe a possibility? >>> There is The Grove Primary School, in Grove Avenue, Claremont >>> >>> __________/\/******\/\______ >>> Anne Lehmkuhl, London, UK >>> http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ >>> Information & the South African Genealogical Research Directory >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >>> South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books >>> www.sagenealogy.co.za >>> >>> ============================== >>> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 >>> >>> >> >> >> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >> South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books >> www.sagenealogy.co.za >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 > >

Pat Claremont is not too far from Wynberg if you go along the upper roads so from Hershel Road to Tennant Road and those areas it is very near - Wynberg Village was my last address in Cape Town and it was all part of "Oude Wynberg" all part of the old farmlands. lesley sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "patfryk" <patfryk@clear.net.nz> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. > Thanks Ann. And that's not far from Wynberg if I remember right.? > If so worth a note. > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anne Lehmkuhl" <ZAFamilyHistory@yahoo.ca> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 7:18 AM > Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. > > >> >>>From: patfryk <patfryk@clear.net.nz> >>>I still don't know what and where the divided estate "The Grove" is/was >>>Pat >> >> Hi Pat >> Maybe a possibility? >> There is The Grove Primary School, in Grove Avenue, Claremont >> >> __________/\/******\/\______ >> Anne Lehmkuhl, London, UK >> http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ >> Information & the South African Genealogical Research Directory >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >> South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books >> www.sagenealogy.co.za >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 >> >> > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Wow Lesley. It is wonderful what information there is amongst the genealogy fraternity ....er sorority??? whatever. All you people have given me fantastic info. Now to sort it into some sort of narrative! Many thanks all Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lesley Abelsohn" <lesdabelsohn@optusnet.com.au> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. > Hi there > Just looked in a book I have. There were 2 estates - Weltevreden and > Feldhausen. The Grove was the latter name given to the area where Grove > School in Grove Ave Claremont stands. It was part of the Feldhausen > Estate. > The property was then sold to Mr Rice Jones and he changed the name to The > Grove and when he converted the former slave quarters into a house he took > the name along with him. > Info found in the book "The First 100Years - The Story of the Claremont > Hebrew Synagogue published last year which is in Grove Ave. Grove Ave has > allthose Pine trees which lead up to the Feldhausen Homestead. > The Grove was later sold to a syndicate which developed Paradise Estate. > Hope this helps! > lesley abelsohn > sydney australia > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anne Lehmkuhl" <ZAFamilyHistory@yahoo.ca> > To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:18 AM > Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. > > >> >>>From: patfryk <patfryk@clear.net.nz> >>>I still don't know what and where the divided estate "The Grove" is/was >>>Pat >> >> Hi Pat >> Maybe a possibility? >> There is The Grove Primary School, in Grove Avenue, Claremont >> >> __________/\/******\/\______ >> Anne Lehmkuhl, London, UK >> http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ >> Information & the South African Genealogical Research Directory >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== >> South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books >> www.sagenealogy.co.za >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> > > > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 > >

Thanks Ann. And that's not far from Wynberg if I remember right.? If so worth a note. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Lehmkuhl" <ZAFamilyHistory@yahoo.ca> To: <SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 7:18 AM Subject: [South-Africa-Cape-Town] Re: Buitenkant, Loop street etc. > >>From: patfryk <patfryk@clear.net.nz> >>I still don't know what and where the divided estate "The Grove" is/was >>Pat > > Hi Pat > Maybe a possibility? > There is The Grove Primary School, in Grove Avenue, Claremont > > __________/\/******\/\______ > Anne Lehmkuhl, London, UK > http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ > Information & the South African Genealogical Research Directory > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ==== SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN Mailing List ==== > South African Passenger Lists, Genealogy links, CDs and books > www.sagenealogy.co.za > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 > >

Hi Pat There was trading across great distances. I know of a German settler (born 1853) who was a merchant in Longmarket Street, Cape Town. He traded regularly with people in Namibia, until he died in 1905 in Cape Town. Don't know how he did it though. __________/\/******\/\______ Anne Lehmkuhl, London, UK http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/ Information & the South African Genealogical Research Directory __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com