Delia wrote: > Which is why Diana van Madagascar is presented as a candidate for the > mother of Susanna Bibault, *not* as the biological mother. In: http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/p5140.htm we find: "Lovers In 1686 Diana van Madagascar and Detlef Bibault were lovers at de Caep de Goede Hoop.4,5" Hardly sounds like "a candidate" to me. Also, "lovers" is a very curious way to describe such a relationship with a female slave. It seems the only information we have about Susanna's mother is in the baptism record for Susanna, although I believe there may be another document where Biebow acknowledges his paternity. I assume that where SA Genealogies 1 p. 275 says (BIEBOW): b1 Susanna = 23.2.1687 (moeder Diana v.d.K.) x 13.9.1711 Willem ODENDAAL that "v.d.K" is an encoding of "slavin" in the baptism entry, and it is not based on any evidence of Diana's actual birthplace. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sun, 08 May 2011 07:27:29 AM EDT From: DRobertson <delia.robertson@gmail.com> To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Diana vd Kaap, mother of Susanna Biebow (Bibault) = 1687 Richard, On 2011/05/08 12:27 PM, Richard Ball wrote: > I have always found it very difficult to follow the various write-ups > that derive slave ancestry and relate one slave transaction to another > and to baptism register and slave lodge records. > > snip > > Unless someone has more evidence available than the above I do not see > how Susanna Bibouw's mother can be given with any assurance as other > than 'Diana, slave of Cornelius Linnes'. > > I may well be missing something here, and certainly I have no > experience of Slave research, but anything else seems to me to be pure > speculation? No, it is informed speculation. Which is why Diana van Madagascar is presented as a candidate for the mother of Susanna Bibault, *not* as the biological mother. Importantly, beyond informed speculation, it also entails a process of elimination - in this case including the number of slave women at the Cape in 1686 of child-bearing age (some were too young), the number named Diana (less than 5), and the number known to have had some connection with Bibault, and the relationship or connection between Bibault and Linnes. No other slave woman named Diana has thus far presented in the records as a candidate. Delia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 2011/05/08 02:55 PM, Keith Meintjes wrote: > Delia wrote: > >> Which is why Diana van Madagascar is presented as a candidate for the >> mother of Susanna Bibault, *not* as the biological mother. > In: http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/p5140.htm > > we find: > > "Lovers In 1686 Diana van Madagascar and Detlef Bibault were lovers at de Caep > de Goede Hoop.4,5" > Hardly sounds like "a candidate" to me. Also, "lovers" is a very curious way > to describe such a relationship with a female slave. Whatever Keith, to me she is a very good candidate to be Susanna's mother. The next release will say, "may have been lovers" ... because if Diana v. Madagascar was Susanna's mother and then she is then purchased by Bibault a few years later, that indicates to me to me there was a relationship of some kind. In fact there were many relationships between free men and slave women that could be described that way, in the sense that they continued over a period of time, and they appeared to be somewhat more than master and slave. This continued up to the nineteenth century. Apart from the fact that some of these couples married after a time, the record is littered with mentions and bequests to slave women. Delia