Thank you Keith, I'm with you on this one, I did history until matric at DGHS, but only now that I'm seeing the history in terms of the effect it had on my forebears lives has it come alive and I have the desire to learn more. My great grandfather and 4 of his brothers were boers in concentration camps, and my paternal great grandparents were of English descent. I make no judgements it was the times but the knowledge and understanding of history helps to to put their lives and times in context. Thank you to all on this site each day I learn a little more. A safe and merry xmas to you all Dee I am much more interested in >> what >> some call "social history", the experiences of common people, than I am >> in >> accounts of the exploits of generals and politicians. I suppose >> genealogy, >> with its emphasis on the lives of individuals, makes you that way. >> -------------------------------------------------- From: <south-africa-request@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 6:33 PM To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: SOUTH-AFRICA Digest, Vol 6, Issue 355 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Scorched Earth Policy..... (Johan Dorey-Venter) > 2. Re: History as taught then (Tombi Peck) > 3. Re: Scorched Earth Policy..... (Pat Frykberg) > 4. Re: History as taught then (Jean Tuckey) > 5. Re: Scorched Earth Policy..... (Tombi Peck) > 6. Re: Scorched Earth Policy..... (Steve Hayes) > 7. Re: History as taught then (Daniel Jacobs) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:41:53 +0800 > From: Johan Dorey-Venter <doreyventer@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Scorched Earth Policy..... > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CAATw6JMcr2rCmCUGdwcY5nYv4gfS4A7oxa2m3S6Cmf8dkmhf5w@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Tombi, > > The "Elke steek is n steek in die hart van God!" remark was from the > ultra-conservative Calvinistic upbringing that a lot of Afrikaners > had. Any form of needle-work on a Sunday was taboo. > > I used to hate history as a school subject, but I could never hear > enough of the history I learnt at home. > > My great-grandfather's younger brother, Frank Dorey, lived and worked > amongst the "uitlanders" in Johannesburg, but he fought on the South > African side, was captured and sent to St Helena as a POW. Three of my > grandfather's older brothers were on commando, and my > great-grandparents with the younger children were in the concentration > camp at Balmoral. All "engelse" on the Boer side. > > Johan. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 00:01:09 -0000 > From: "Tombi Peck" <tombipeck@talktalk.net> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <348DE7F49A96477E82B40654AE797D6A@tombipeck> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > One of the saddest things (apart from all the people being killed) was the > fact that the British got through 500,000 horses many of which came from > Australia, New Zealand and Argentina!! > There is now a memorial somewhere in South AFrica to this dreadful waste. > Best wishes, > Tombi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jean Tuckey" <ronjeantuc@clear.net.nz> > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:07 PM > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then > > >> Despite me getting all uppity earlier on this is proving fascinating and >> I >> shall look up those biographies and have a good read. I know little of >> south african history; my father in law left New Zealand with a horse >> contingent to fight in the Boer War and his diary is most interesting and >> informative. He didn't write of the fighting, remember he was writing to >> his Mum and by the time the letters got to her she would have been >> frantic >> with worry about it all...they are utterly charming and he mentions >> Bulawayo >> (where we lived eventually) and so on on his ride from Beira to Mafeking >> and >> beyond. His brother became a Policeman in that era in S.A. and his diary >> too is really good reading chasing horse thieves etc and living >> eventually >> in Botswana as it is now. I have a photograph album of sketches of >> folk >> during that period very clever but not signed, and some photos of "Boer >> families" but no names...then he wrote one on his Kalahari campaign in >> WW1 >> as by that time he had fallen in love with S.A. and settled in Sydney on >> Vaal he rode through the desert to S.W.A - once again I have typed those >> letters too and through them I know something about your history. >> >> I was educated in India so only knew about Indian history. Then we went >> to >> Rhodesia now Zimbabwe and children there these days only have terrorist >> victory stuff...every country seems prejudiced from one angle only very >> sad. >> >> Now I am off to see if the comprehensive Auckland History Library has >> anything to help me >> >> Merry Christmas everyone >> Jean in Auckland >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Keith Meintjes" <umfundi@usa.net> >> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 11:44 AM >> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then >> >>> Tombi wrote: >>> >>>> Keith, >>>> You were very lucky! I did history to matric but being at an English >>>> Medium school in the Transvaal although ... >>> >>> Tombi, >>> >>> I said I wish I had the textbooks, because then I could see what they >>> left >>> out. I finished High School in the Transvaal in 1968. >>> >>> It seemed to me that South African history ended about van der Stel's >>> time. >>> We got a dose of indoctrination in classes called Social Studies and one >>> called Race Studies, but they were not history. There was no 20th >>> Century >>> history from anywhere. I learned a lot about Metternich and Bismarck, >>> and >>> the >>> Industrial Revolution. British and European colonialism was not >>> history, >>> it >>> was in a class called Geography. >>> >>> Which is too bad. 20th Century South African history, particularly the >>> first >>> half, is fascinating. The rest also is. I am much more interested in >>> what >>> some call "social history", the experiences of common people, than I am >>> in >>> accounts of the exploits of generals and politicians. I suppose >>> genealogy, >>> with its emphasis on the lives of individuals, makes you that way. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Keith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4674 - Release Date: 12/11/11 >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 13:24:04 +1300 > From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Scorched Earth Policy..... > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <352E03A4CE5D4CA0B64A9A14D34AC223@PatricaPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > I certainly did not expect to see so much reaction to my simple request > for > information about deaths at the concentration camps. > I simply want the facts. > They do not seem to be so readily available as so much information is from > the more knowledgeable people on these lists. > I have been so lucky in the past with an ask-and-you-will-receive. > Some good references for me to get hold of. And a lot of reading. I have > read much about Emily Hobhouse. > Thanks all. > Pat Frykberg > > : Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. >>> >>>Pat, >>> >>>A couple of people were irritated by my post. Nonetheless, I suggest >> you look >>>for biographies online for: >>> >>>Frederich Sleigh ROBERTS >>> >>>Horatio Herbert KITCHENER >>> >>>Emily HOBHOUSE >>> >>>You can judge for yourself. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 13:29:11 +1300 > From: Jean Tuckey <ronjeantuc@clear.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <FBBA019DF59B491289DB79A5134758E6@jeanxp> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > I have photographs of the many dead horses...its terrible...my > Father-in-law > took his back to New Zealand but then he was a lucky one!! Jean > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Tombi Peck" <tombipeck@talktalk.net> > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:01 PM > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then > >> One of the saddest things (apart from all the people being killed) was >> the >> fact that the British got through 500,000 horses many of which came from >> Australia, New Zealand and Argentina!! >> There is now a memorial somewhere in South AFrica to this dreadful waste. >> Best wishes, >> Tombi >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jean Tuckey" <ronjeantuc@clear.net.nz> >> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then >> >> >>> Despite me getting all uppity earlier on this is proving fascinating and >>> I >>> shall look up those biographies and have a good read. I know little of >>> south african history; my father in law left New Zealand with a horse >>> contingent to fight in the Boer War and his diary is most interesting >>> and >>> informative. He didn't write of the fighting, remember he was writing >>> to >>> his Mum and by the time the letters got to her she would have been >>> frantic >>> with worry about it all...they are utterly charming and he mentions >>> Bulawayo >>> (where we lived eventually) and so on on his ride from Beira to Mafeking >>> and >>> beyond. His brother became a Policeman in that era in S.A. and his >>> diary >>> too is really good reading chasing horse thieves etc and living >>> eventually >>> in Botswana as it is now. I have a photograph album of sketches of >>> folk >>> during that period very clever but not signed, and some photos of "Boer >>> families" but no names...then he wrote one on his Kalahari campaign in >>> WW1 >>> as by that time he had fallen in love with S.A. and settled in Sydney on >>> Vaal he rode through the desert to S.W.A - once again I have typed >>> those >>> letters too and through them I know something about your history. >>> >>> I was educated in India so only knew about Indian history. Then we went >>> to >>> Rhodesia now Zimbabwe and children there these days only have terrorist >>> victory stuff...every country seems prejudiced from one angle only very >>> sad. >>> >>> Now I am off to see if the comprehensive Auckland History Library has >>> anything to help me >>> >>> Merry Christmas everyone >>> Jean in Auckland >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Keith Meintjes" <umfundi@usa.net> >>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 11:44 AM >>> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> >>> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then >>> >>>> Tombi wrote: >>>> >>>>> Keith, >>>>> You were very lucky! I did history to matric but being at an English >>>>> Medium school in the Transvaal although ... >>>> >>>> Tombi, >>>> >>>> I said I wish I had the textbooks, because then I could see what they >>>> left >>>> out. I finished High School in the Transvaal in 1968. >>>> >>>> It seemed to me that South African history ended about van der Stel's >>>> time. >>>> We got a dose of indoctrination in classes called Social Studies and >>>> one >>>> called Race Studies, but they were not history. There was no 20th >>>> Century >>>> history from anywhere. I learned a lot about Metternich and Bismarck, >>>> and >>>> the >>>> Industrial Revolution. British and European colonialism was not >>>> history, >>>> it >>>> was in a class called Geography. >>>> >>>> Which is too bad. 20th Century South African history, particularly the >>>> first >>>> half, is fascinating. The rest also is. I am much more interested in >>>> what >>>> some call "social history", the experiences of common people, than I am >>>> in >>>> accounts of the exploits of generals and politicians. I suppose >>>> genealogy, >>>> with its emphasis on the lives of individuals, makes you that way. >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> >>>> Keith >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4674 - Release Date: >>> 12/11/11 >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 01:04:28 -0000 > From: "Tombi Peck" <tombipeck@talktalk.net> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Scorched Earth Policy..... > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <DDD11B8F0BF74986BF8BDFDD891BDC48@tombipeck> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > She was a remarkable woman....Emily Hobhouse. > Did a lot of wonderful work! > Best wishes, > Tombi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Frykberg" <patfryk@clear.net.nz> > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:24 AM > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Scorched Earth Policy..... > > >>I certainly did not expect to see so much reaction to my simple request >>for >> information about deaths at the concentration camps. >> I simply want the facts. >> They do not seem to be so readily available as so much information is >> from >> the more knowledgeable people on these lists. >> I have been so lucky in the past with an ask-and-you-will-receive. >> Some good references for me to get hold of. And a lot of reading. I have >> read much about Emily Hobhouse. >> Thanks all. >> Pat Frykberg >> >> : Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. >>>> >>>>Pat, >>>> >>>>A couple of people were irritated by my post. Nonetheless, I suggest >>> you look >>>>for biographies online for: >>>> >>>>Frederich Sleigh ROBERTS >>>> >>>>Horatio Herbert KITCHENER >>>> >>>>Emily HOBHOUSE >>>> >>>>You can judge for yourself. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4674 - Release Date: 12/11/11 >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 03:48:38 +0200 > From: "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Scorched Earth Policy..... > To: "tombipeck@talktalk.net" <tombipeck@talktalk.net>, > south-africa@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4EE57996.20601.3B664C@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 11 Dec 2011 at 20:47, tombipeck@talktalk.net wrote: > >> I have a very sad photograph of own of my relations, a little girl, >> taken in a concentration camp....it certainly sharpens the mind! >> I worked with a woman at the Mines Benefit Society in Braamfontein who >> disliked me thoroughly as I was English Speaking...her grandmother had >> been in one of the concenration camps. One Monday morning I said I'd >> been embroidering a bib for my expected first child the previous day... >> her comment to me was "Elke steek is n steek in die hart van God!".... >> not terribly charitable I didn't think! > > <snipped for brevity> > > Thanks very much for that, Tombi. An interesting example of how family > history is affected by general history. > > > -- > Steve Hayes > E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 > Fax: 086-548-2525 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:33:40 +0200 > From: Daniel Jacobs <danielmalanjacobs@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] History as taught then > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CAKxK6KyHymctNOfCY06cjsJD3n0vL+sa=tc1Lns0S0GT5jPfzw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear Keith > > I am collecting old history text books. I however do not have an > English secondary school one for the 1960's The authors of an > Afrikaans one was among other Wiid and Geyer. I can scan you the > contents page as I guess the syllabus would have been the same for the > English schools? > > Kind regards > > Daniel Jacobs > > On 12/12/11, Keith Meintjes <umfundi@usa.net> wrote: >> Tombi wrote: >> >>> Keith, >>> You were very lucky! I did history to matric but being at an English >>> Medium school in the Transvaal although ... >> >> Tombi, >> >> I said I wish I had the textbooks, because then I could see what they >> left >> out. I finished High School in the Transvaal in 1968. >> >> It seemed to me that South African history ended about van der Stel's >> time. >> We got a dose of indoctrination in classes called Social Studies and one >> called Race Studies, but they were not history. There was no 20th >> Century >> history from anywhere. I learned a lot about Metternich and Bismarck, >> and >> the >> Industrial Revolution. British and European colonialism was not history, >> it >> was in a class called Geography. >> >> Which is too bad. 20th Century South African history, particularly the >> first >> half, is fascinating. The rest also is. I am much more interested in >> what >> some call "social history", the experiences of common people, than I am >> in >> accounts of the exploits of generals and politicians. I suppose >> genealogy, >> with its emphasis on the lives of individuals, makes you that way. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > -- > Vir gratis Genealogiese Handleiding: > http://gendata.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13&Itemid=28 > > Siebrits/du Toit/Meyer/Zeeman/De Villiers (Franschhoek/Paarl) > Jacobs/Oberholster/Smith (Graaff-Reinet/Fauresmith) > Le Roux/Van der Merwe (Villiersdorp) > Louw/Brink (Kaapstad/Wellington) > De Vos (De Doorns/Wellington) > Malan (Wellington/Zeerust) > Ungerer (Swellendam) > Smith (Wellington) > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the SOUTH-AFRICA list administrator, send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the SOUTH-AFRICA mailing list, send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of SOUTH-AFRICA Digest, Vol 6, Issue 355 > ********************************************