Pat, A couple of people were irritated by my post. Nonetheless, I suggest you look for biographies online for: Frederich Sleigh ROBERTS Horatio Herbert KITCHENER Emily HOBHOUSE You can judge for yourself. Roberts started the "scorched earth" policy of burning farms, which led to the need for refugee camps. Kitchener continued and refined the policy, to depopulate the countryside, hence the need to "concentrate" the population. Emily Hobhouse was a British social worker. Read the biographies, and judge for yourself. It's a very tragic story. I sure wish I had kept my high school history textbooks. What they didn't tell us! Best wishes, Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 02:50:11 PM EST From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> To: shayes@dunelm.org.uk, Keith Meintjes <umfundi@usa.net>, south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. Thanks Steve. As I recall this part of our history was not taught at school (certainly not during the 40/50/ Nor at University. ) I am interested because it was a very important part in the life of one of my ancestors. And I knew, and know, very little, so I am filling in that part of my family history. In fact I think it is true to say that I have learnt more about South African History since doing genealogy than I ever knew before in spite of having a BA in History. The whole eastern Province and the South African War, the old Transvaal....... Oh I could go on and on. I am the richer for what these lists have given me. In fact I depend on them. Patricia Frykberg (aka Pat) -------------------------------------------------- >> The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been >> discussed >> on this site. >> . >> >> It's history. > > It's also one of the points where family meets general history. > > A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the > camps, > and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment are > also of interest. > > > -- > Steve Hayes > E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 > Fax: 086-548-2525 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >

Keith, You were very lucky! I did history to matric but being at an English Medium school in the Transvaal although we did the Great Trek to death we learned absolutely nothing about the Anglo-Boer war and even less about the Concentration Camps. I was probably more aware of the problems suffered at the time; my first cousin 3 times removed Sir Theophilus Shepstone annexed the Transvaal to the British Crown; my 4th cousin 3 times removed was Pres. Paul Kruger. My gg grandparents farm Haverklip near Delmas had all the buildings destroyed by a New Zealand Battalion as part of the scorched earth policy...my gg grandparents middle son was married to a 'Dutch Woman' he was imprisoned in Springs because of supplying her brothers and cousins with supplies (he said unwillingly). My gg grandmother received compensation after the war. Amazingly 100 years later the walls of the main house are still standing. To add insult to injury the British built a blockhouse not many yards from the rear of the house. Judging by he number of 'doppies' that can be found around the house there must have been a heck of a scrap there!. Ranging bullet holes can still be seen in the plasterwork of the sittingroom obviously fired from the window. My gg grandmother wasn't in residence at the time...my great grandfather having been made bankrupt during the rinderpest outbreak of 1895 had lost his farm at Heidelberg and was working down in the Cape at De Aar.....although my gg grandmother Maria Susanna Wilhelmina BROWNE born HART was compensated the son who was imprisoned, Charles Lennox Stretch BROWNE went on claiming compensation for the same damage (why we don't know the farm didn't belong to him but to his mother)...his son wrote the last letter claiming compensation as late as 1934. Fortunately for me Tessa King kindly photographed the file for me.... it makes interesting reading!! Charles Lennox Stretch BROWNE's sister Maria Susannah Wilhemina MULCAHY, born BROWNE was married to Major Sir Francis MULCAHY who was with the Commissary in the British Army...he was sent to South Africa during the first Anglo Boer War which was when he and 'Minnie' met. I probably knew more about what had happened than most English speaking girls because the family discussed what had happened. Another 4th cousin of mine twice removed was sent in open cattle truck from the Orange Free State to Natal with his mother when he was 3 (so I understand)....he was Pres. Blackie SWART who understandibly held a grudge against the British thereafter. I have a very sad photograph of own of my relations, a little girl, taken in a concentration camp....it certainly sharpens the mind! I worked with a woman at the Mines Benefit Society in Braamfontein who disliked me thoroughly as I was English Speaking...her grandmother had been in one of the concenration camps. One Monday morning I said I'd been embroidering a bib for my expected first child the previous day... her comment to me was "Elke steek is n steek in die hart van God!".... not terribly charitable I didn't think! Best wishes, Tombi Peck >----Original Message---- >From: umfundi@usa.net >Date: 11/12/2011 20:19 >To: "Pat Frykberg"<patfryk@clear.net.nz>, <shayes@dunelm.org.uk>, "Keith Meintjes"<umfundi@usa.net>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> >Subj: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > >Pat, > >A couple of people were irritated by my post. Nonetheless, I suggest you look >for biographies online for: > >Frederich Sleigh ROBERTS > >Horatio Herbert KITCHENER > >Emily HOBHOUSE > >You can judge for yourself. Roberts started the "scorched earth" policy of >burning farms, which led to the need for refugee camps. Kitchener continued >and refined the policy, to depopulate the countryside, hence the need to >"concentrate" the population. Emily Hobhouse was a British social worker. > >Read the biographies, and judge for yourself. It's a very tragic story. > >I sure wish I had kept my high school history textbooks. What they didn't tell >us! > >Best wishes, > >Keith > >------ Original Message ------ >Received: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 02:50:11 PM EST >From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> >To: shayes@dunelm.org.uk, Keith Meintjes <umfundi@usa.net>, >south-africa@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > >Thanks Steve. As I recall this part of our history was not taught at school >(certainly not during the 40/50/ Nor at University. ) >I am interested because it was a very important part in the life of one of >my ancestors. And I knew, and know, very little, so I am filling in that >part of my family history. In fact I think it is true to say that I have >learnt more about South African History since doing genealogy than I ever >knew before in spite of having a BA in History. The whole eastern Province >and the South African War, the old Transvaal....... Oh I could go on and on. >I am the richer for what these lists have given me. > In fact I depend on them. >Patricia Frykberg (aka Pat) > >-------------------------------------------------- >>> The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been >>> discussed >>> on this site. >>> >. >>> >>> It's history. >> >> It's also one of the points where family meets general history. >> >> A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the >> camps, >> and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment are >> also of interest. >> >> >> -- >> Steve Hayes >> E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk >> Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) >> Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com >> Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 >> Fax: 086-548-2525 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >> > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Tombi, The "Elke steek is n steek in die hart van God!" remark was from the ultra-conservative Calvinistic upbringing that a lot of Afrikaners had. Any form of needle-work on a Sunday was taboo. I used to hate history as a school subject, but I could never hear enough of the history I learnt at home. My great-grandfather's younger brother, Frank Dorey, lived and worked amongst the "uitlanders" in Johannesburg, but he fought on the South African side, was captured and sent to St Helena as a POW. Three of my grandfather's older brothers were on commando, and my great-grandparents with the younger children were in the concentration camp at Balmoral. All "engelse" on the Boer side. Johan.

HI Tombi" We all grew up with that saying. I can still hear my grandmother muttering "Elke steek is n steek in die oog van die Here" If you dared sewing a botton on while wearing the shirt, you were told you "you are sewing poverty to your life" My bank manager did not acccept that explanation :) The sum total of my English after I passed matric was "yes and no and let me go Kind Regards Magda ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4073 - Release Date: 12/10/11