I am withdrawing from this discussion thread because I did not advocate co-operation between genealogical organizations (charitable and commercial), and support for all, and using the services of all, to be personally attacked and reviled by those who read the mail on the lists. I did not advocate co-operation to be called "hateful", nor to be stabbed in the back by people I regarded as friends. People have attacked me in letters to me personally and in letters to the lists. I am fed up of being attacked for trying to get people to work together, as though they were all part of one human race, one mankind. Here is my final word on the subject, a quotation from John Donne: "No man is an island, entire of itself every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls it tolls for thee." Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: Francois Greeff [mailto:goodgreeff@hiddencode.co.uk] Sent: 04 December 2011 19:14 To: 'south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com' Cc: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com; SAGenealogie@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project Well said, Trixie! I think that everyone can win if this new passenger list project devoted its efforts to enlarging the largest pool of information, instead of starting from scratch again. Besides that Ancersty24 has a great deal of other information too, and I have found their membership fee very cheap, considering the data they have given the Greeff clan (R395 generally, and half price for members of the Cape Town branch of GSSA). In other words, membership of GSSA is about R150 and membership of Ancestry24 is about R200 in the end. The cost of joining is thus more or less the same, but Ancestry24 has 59,578 Passenger records and 2,879 shipping records and one million transcribed and fully searchable records overall, and access to 8 million South African names. Synergy is a word that describes how two plus two can make six. Synergy is part of the logic behind mergers and acquisitions in corporate governance. When two organizations join forces and work together instead of in competition to each other there are massive savings: One head office, one set of accountants and auditors, one web site, mutually supporting advertising instead of adverts that cancel each other out, better use of transport, and united databases, as well as increased benefits to both customer sets. Jan Smuts first thought up the philosophy of Holism, and he said that "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts". That is easy to understand when you have a pile of spare parts, as opposed to all the same parts assembled to make a useful, working motor car. The whole assembled car is worth far more than the sum of its parts. I sincerely hope that GISA is about to enter into a new phase of co-operation with GSSA and other organizations. I urge their managements to consider the financial and practical advantages of synergy. The leaders in South African genealogy should also consider that Naspers is fully aware of it that the days of paper newspapers are over. The newspapers that have not shifted into electronic media are going insolvent. (See: http://newspaperdeathwatch.com/) The survivors are investing heavily in digital media: the internet, Pay TV, and all sorts of online activities. See http://www.naspers.com/company-structure.php There is no doubt that genealogy is the fastest growing internet hobby in the world, and these financial giants are investing billions of Dollars in genealogy. Even governments see genealogy as a source of big revenue. The British Government is making a fortune from world wide internet sales because you can order official birth, marriage and death certificates for events registered in England and Wales from the General Register Office (GRO) for just £9.25. Each. Per certificate. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevent s/Birthmarriageanddeathcertificates/dg_175628 Ancestry24 is investing a fortune in South African genealogy, and the leaders of all genealogy groups should get together and meet with the finance directors behind Ancestry24. It makes sense for Ancestry24 to offer discounts to members of GSSA, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to host all the GSSA web sites free of charge, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to participate in all GSSA projects. There is already too much senseless duplication in the passenger lists, and the transcription of voters rolls, and in transcription of paper records to digital records. In the latter Ancestry24 is way ahead of all the other players put together, so why not work together to find ways in which GSSA members can benefit from greater co-operation? Regards, Francois -----Original Message----- From: Trixie [mailto:verneukpan@gmail.com] Sent: 04 December 2011 05:41 To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project This looks like the same passenger lists that Ancestry24 have done years ago - does anybody communicate with one another to see whether they are not dulicating work already done? Trixie On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Sue Mackay <sue@sausalito.demon.co.uk>wrote: > The first phase of its new Passenger List Project has gone live on the > web site of the eGGSA Branch of the Genealogical Society of South > Africa. The transcribing is being done by volunteers, members of the > eGGSA, Natal Midland and Western Cape branches of the GSSA: > > http://www.eggsa.org/arrivals/eGGSA%20Passenger%20Project.html > > > Posted on behalf of Richard Ball > www.eggsa.org > > Sue >