Hi all, I'm looking for a Presbyterian marriage which according to their Death Notices took place in Cape Town I'd think it would've been before 1916 Thomas ARNOTT and Maggie Brown ANDREW both from Scotland I have written to the Presbyterian church Cape Town but received no answer. Any and all help will be much appreciated. Help Please! Thank you Regards Lynn

Hallo Steve The closest I get to Arries is Ariamsvlei - the Namibian side of the borderpost between South Africa and Namibia. Maybe there was an Ariamsdrift across the Oranje River near Ariamsvlei ? Just a wild guess ! Regards Dennis Pretorius Krugersdorp South Africa Tel - 011-762-8911 Cel - 083-679-8541 Fax - 086-609-8541 -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes via Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 8:28 PM To: afgen@yahoogroups.com; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Arries or Arris Drift Does anyone know where I can find Arries or Arris Drift across the Orange River between South Africa and Namibia? Google maps shows me Yale University or somewhere in Wales, so that's no good. An ancestor crossed it in July 1862 taking cattle from Damaraland to sell in the Cape, and I'm trying to see the route they took. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know where I can find Arries or Arris Drift across the Orange River between South Africa and Namibia? Google maps shows me Yale University or somewhere in Wales, so that's no good. An ancestor crossed it in July 1862 taking cattle from Damaraland to sell in the Cape, and I'm trying to see the route they took. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk

The Library of Umfundi triumphs, once again. ------ Original Message ------ Received: 02:47 PM EDT, 03/16/2015 From: Dennis Pretorius via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: <shayes@dunelm.org.uk>, "'Steve Hayes'" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Arries or Arris Drift Hallo Steve The closest I get to Arries is Ariamsvlei - the Namibian side of the borderpost between South Africa and Namibia. Maybe there was an Ariamsdrift across the Oranje River near Ariamsvlei ? Just a wild guess ! Regards Dennis Pretorius Krugersdorp South Africa Tel - 011-762-8911 Cel - 083-679-8541 Fax - 086-609-8541 -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes via Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 8:28 PM To: afgen@yahoogroups.com; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Arries or Arris Drift Does anyone know where I can find Arries or Arris Drift across the Orange River between South Africa and Namibia? Google maps shows me Yale University or somewhere in Wales, so that's no good. An ancestor crossed it in July 1862 taking cattle from Damaraland to sell in the Cape, and I'm trying to see the route they took. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter Raper, New Dictionary of South African Place Names: ARRIESDRIF: Ford in the Orange River some 30 km ENE of its mouth, at 28 30 S, 16 43 E. Then, there is a bunch of stuff about where the name comes from. According to my maps, there is not a road crossing there today. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: 02:28 PM EDT, 03/16/2015 From: Steve Hayes via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: afgen@yahoogroups.com, south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Arries or Arris Drift Does anyone know where I can find Arries or Arris Drift across the Orange River between South Africa and Namibia? Google maps shows me Yale University or somewhere in Wales, so that's no good. An ancestor crossed it in July 1862 taking cattle from Damaraland to sell in the Cape, and I'm trying to see the route they took. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have now completed indexes for three of Lawrence G. Green's books: - Full many a glorious morning - So few are free - Thunder on the Blaauwberg I discovered that the indexes printed in the books themselves are inadequate, as they leave out many people, places and things. Even when people are included, they are sometimes mentioned in other places that are not shown in the index. The information given in the books is not always accurate, but can nevertheless give valuable clues. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk

James Dalgleish's second wife, Eliza Felton died at the Castle in Cape Town on the 10th April 1811, leaving James with two small children. James born in 1807, and Eliza 1809. I have a tree if anyone is interested. Cheers Fay -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Keith Meintjes via Sent: 15 March 2015 08:10 PM To: SA List; Sasa Malan; Peter Ross Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Deacon, Dalgleish,and Powrie: Royal Artillery families at the Cape In 2006 Max White published a very nice article in Capensis, "Early 19th Century Progenitors in the Royal Regiment of Artillery: James Deacon and Ester McLane, and their RA relatives, Dalgleish and Powrie". Mr. White does a fine job of connecting the dots, but there are still gaps. The situation is not helped by the fact that the progenitor information for all three of these families in SA Genealogies is incomplete or simply incorrect. Also, records such as the St. Georges' registers have bee incompletely or incorrectly transcribed. Sue Mackay, in her kind and quiet way, has now provided information that may cause this whole wall to come tumbling down. Sue's information is: > Esther Deacon born 1 Feb 1800, daughter of James Deacon and Ester McClane. > Family Search has a baptism for Esther Deacon, daughter of James > Deacon and Esther McLean, born 1 Feb 1800 and baptised 9 March 1800 > in Christ Church, > Tynemouth, Northumberland. The story is confusing, first of all because it is a confusing story. Also, the records are incomplete. Since these men and their families were part of the British military, they show up intermittently (if at all) in the usual civilian records. Also, some of the characters died while in service, so there are no military records (discharge papers) for them. The facts are these: James Deacon, James Dalgleish, and Robert Powrie were members of the Royal Artillery. (Deacon is not fully proven, I believe.) The Deacons are reputed to be from Ireland, but this (to me) is doubtful. Dalgleish and Powrie were Scottish. Dalgleish's county of origin, Lanarkshire, has been mis-transcribed as Lancashire. James Dalgleish married Eliza Felton. They had a son, James, often confused with his father. James Deacon married Esther McClane. (Ester, Hester, McLane, ...) James and Esther had a daughter, Esther Deacon (see above.) Esther Deacon has been confused with her mother. Esther is not in SA Genealogies. Two sons were born in Cape Town. Esther Deacon married Thomas Marrin. No children. James Deacon died. Eliza Felton died. Esther McClane remarried James Dalgleish. Thomas Marrin died. Robert Powrie married (she remarried) Esther Deacon. Dalgleish stayed in Cape Town. He later moved to Port Elizabeth without his wife but with his namesake son. Presumably, she had died. Robert Powrie's first child, James, was born in Cape Town. The family returned to England, where a second child, Martha, was born. They filed a petition to be 1820 Settlers, but were refused for the formal scheme. Notwithstanding, they returned to Cape Town in 1820. Keith ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Fay, Do you mean first wife, Eliza Felton? I think the second wife was Esther McClean, formerly Deacon. There are also sources that give Maria Schrambiel as a wife, but she was the wife of his namesake son, James Edwin Dalgleish. I'd be interested to see the tree. Best wishes, Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: 04:26 PM EDT, 03/15/2015 From: "Fay Lea" <cancun@icon.co.za> To: "'Keith Meintjes'" <umfundi@usa.net>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: RE: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Deacon, Dalgleish,and Powrie: Royal Artillery families at the Cape James Dalgleish's second wife, Eliza Felton died at the Castle in Cape Town on the 10th April 1811, leaving James with two small children. James born in 1807, and Eliza 1809. I have a tree if anyone is interested. Cheers Fay -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Keith Meintjes via Sent: 15 March 2015 08:10 PM To: SA List; Sasa Malan; Peter Ross Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Deacon, Dalgleish,and Powrie: Royal Artillery families at the Cape In 2006 Max White published a very nice article in Capensis, "Early 19th Century Progenitors in the Royal Regiment of Artillery: James Deacon and Ester McLane, and their RA relatives, Dalgleish and Powrie". Mr. White does a fine job of connecting the dots, but there are still gaps. The situation is not helped by the fact that the progenitor information for all three of these families in SA Genealogies is incomplete or simply incorrect. Also, records such as the St. Georges' registers have bee incompletely or incorrectly transcribed. Sue Mackay, in her kind and quiet way, has now provided information that may cause this whole wall to come tumbling down. Sue's information is: > Esther Deacon born 1 Feb 1800, daughter of James Deacon and Ester McClane. > Family Search has a baptism for Esther Deacon, daughter of James > Deacon and Esther McLean, born 1 Feb 1800 and baptised 9 March 1800 > in Christ Church, > Tynemouth, Northumberland. The story is confusing, first of all because it is a confusing story. Also, the records are incomplete. Since these men and their families were part of the British military, they show up intermittently (if at all) in the usual civilian records. Also, some of the characters died while in service, so there are no military records (discharge papers) for them. The facts are these: James Deacon, James Dalgleish, and Robert Powrie were members of the Royal Artillery. (Deacon is not fully proven, I believe.) The Deacons are reputed to be from Ireland, but this (to me) is doubtful. Dalgleish and Powrie were Scottish. Dalgleish's county of origin, Lanarkshire, has been mis-transcribed as Lancashire. James Dalgleish married Eliza Felton. They had a son, James, often confused with his father. James Deacon married Esther McClane. (Ester, Hester, McLane, ...) James and Esther had a daughter, Esther Deacon (see above.) Esther Deacon has been confused with her mother. Esther is not in SA Genealogies. Two sons were born in Cape Town. Esther Deacon married Thomas Marrin. No children. James Deacon died. Eliza Felton died. Esther McClane remarried James Dalgleish. Thomas Marrin died. Robert Powrie married (she remarried) Esther Deacon. Dalgleish stayed in Cape Town. He later moved to Port Elizabeth without his wife but with his namesake son. Presumably, she had died. Robert Powrie's first child, James, was born in Cape Town. The family returned to England, where a second child, Martha, was born. They filed a petition to be 1820 Settlers, but were refused for the formal scheme. Notwithstanding, they returned to Cape Town in 1820. Keith ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

In 2006 Max White published a very nice article in Capensis, "Early 19th Century Progenitors in the Royal Regiment of Artillery: James Deacon and Ester McLane, and their RA relatives, Dalgleish and Powrie". Mr. White does a fine job of connecting the dots, but there are still gaps. The situation is not helped by the fact that the progenitor information for all three of these families in SA Genealogies is incomplete or simply incorrect. Also, records such as the St. Georges' registers have bee incompletely or incorrectly transcribed. Sue Mackay, in her kind and quiet way, has now provided information that may cause this whole wall to come tumbling down. Sue's information is: > Esther Deacon born 1 Feb 1800, daughter of James Deacon and Ester McClane. > Family Search has a baptism for Esther Deacon, daughter of James Deacon > and Esther McLean, born 1 Feb 1800 and baptised 9 March 1800 in Christ Church, > Tynemouth, Northumberland. The story is confusing, first of all because it is a confusing story. Also, the records are incomplete. Since these men and their families were part of the British military, they show up intermittently (if at all) in the usual civilian records. Also, some of the characters died while in service, so there are no military records (discharge papers) for them. The facts are these: James Deacon, James Dalgleish, and Robert Powrie were members of the Royal Artillery. (Deacon is not fully proven, I believe.) The Deacons are reputed to be from Ireland, but this (to me) is doubtful. Dalgleish and Powrie were Scottish. Dalgleish's county of origin, Lanarkshire, has been mis-transcribed as Lancashire. James Dalgleish married Eliza Felton. They had a son, James, often confused with his father. James Deacon married Esther McClane. (Ester, Hester, McLane, ...) James and Esther had a daughter, Esther Deacon (see above.) Esther Deacon has been confused with her mother. Esther is not in SA Genealogies. Two sons were born in Cape Town. Esther Deacon married Thomas Marrin. No children. James Deacon died. Eliza Felton died. Esther McClane remarried James Dalgleish. Thomas Marrin died. Robert Powrie married (she remarried) Esther Deacon. Dalgleish stayed in Cape Town. He later moved to Port Elizabeth without his wife but with his namesake son. Presumably, she had died. Robert Powrie's first child, James, was born in Cape Town. The family returned to England, where a second child, Martha, was born. They filed a petition to be 1820 Settlers, but were refused for the formal scheme. Notwithstanding, they returned to Cape Town in 1820. Keith

Thank you for your input, I have looked under the EGGSA site but they do not have any article that corresponds with my question. Regards Andrea On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Keith Meintjes <umfundi@usa.net> wrote: > There is an index to Familia on the eGGSA site. > > Keith > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > Received: 10:20 AM EDT, 03/14/2015 > From: andrea franks via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > To: "SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com" <SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Re the Carsten brothers > > Dear All, > > In the FAMILIA a number of years ago, there was an article about the > CARSTEN brothers who took on the Alabama, according to the Author the > CARSTEN brothers and their very fast sloop, did a lot of damage to the > Alabama, a rematch was agreed upon, and when the Alabama returned to the > Cape the US Marshals were waiting for the the Captain, who had stolen the > ship, while supposing to delivering it to the US, has any one got that > FAMILIA or knows of this version (in the correct format). > > Regards > Andrea > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hi Keith, From online source, images of cards available. Name: Martha Powrie Birth Date: 28 Aug 1819 Gender: Female Event Type: Baptism Father: Robert Powrie Mother: Esther Powrie Baptism Date: 5 Sep 1819 Baptism Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Denomination: Wesleyan Piece Title: Piece 1048: Liverpool, Brunswick Chapel, Moss Street (Wesleyan), 1809-1837 On 14/03/2015 5:04 PM, Keith Meintjes via wrote: > Sue, > > Thank you very much! New information on my Oldham ancestors. > > I wonder if you have encountered the curious case of the Powrie family? > > Robert Powrie was born 16 May 1785 in Ballendean, Perth, Scotland. He was a > soldier in the Royal Artllery at the Cape, where in 1816 he married Esther > Deacon, the widow of Thomas Marrin, also of the RA. Their son, James, was > born (at the Castle in Cape Town) on 23 Jul 1817. > > The family returned to London, where Robert was discharged. He applied as an > 1820 Settler, but was refused. The family was, however, given passage to Cape > Town on a navy vessel (landing in Simonstown), where Robert was a boot and > shoemaker. > > So, the Powries are "independent" 1820 settlers, not part of the formal > scheme, and never went near the Eastern Frontier. I often joke that my > ancestor (James Powrie) is the only 1820 Settler born in South Africa! > > James Powrie married Josepha Dorcas Oldham, so I do have a legitimate 1820 > ancestor claim. > > The mystery here is Esther Deacon. Family lore says she was from Ireland, but > I doubt it. More likely, she was from London. > > So, my questions (not just for you): > > A) Is there any record of a marriage for Thomas MARRIN and Esther DEACON, > probably in London or at the Cape? I have a marriage date of 15 Apr 1814 with > no source. > > B) What documents are there on Robert Powrie's failed petition to be a > Settler? I hear they exist, but I have not seen them, and do not know where > they are. Hopefully, they will have some information on Esther's origins. > > By the way, Robert and Esther's second child, Martha, was born in London on 28 > Aug 1819. Again, I have no proof of this fact. > > Their third child, Robert, was born in Cape Town on 3 Jul 1821 and died young. > There were nine (!) more children. > > Sue, > > I will appreciate any help you or others can provide. I have the Powries > pretty well, it is Esther Deacon who is the mystery. (And Thomas Marrin.) > > Best wishes, > > Keith > > > ------ Original Message ------ > Received: 12:34 PM EDT, 03/13/2015 > From: Sue Mackay via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > To: SA List <south-africa-l@rootsweb.com>, ZA-IB List > <south-africa-immigrants-british-l@rootsweb.com>, EC List > <south-africa-eastern-cape-l@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] 1820 Settler Update > > I have now completed the Settler Returns up to the end of the letter R (there > is nothing for Russell's Party in the file) and hope to complete them before I > go to Portugal at the end of next week. I was exceedingly grateful for the > short respite while the eggsa site was down yesterday, as it gave me time to > recover from transcribing the return for PARKER's Party. The man drove me mad > with his correspondence and he did so again with his non standard returns! > > > http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/settler-returns > > > I have added a couple of extra information files. PARKER did at least give me > the clue for James ALLISON, by stating that he was a pensioner of the 23rd > Light Dragoons, and once I had found his discharge papers it was easy enough > to track down his baptism and marriage in Scotland. Although his wife is > listed as Ann, she was actually Agnes MAXWELL. The Settler Handbook lists > Sarah (15) and Anne (1), whereas PARKER's Return at Kew lists them the other > way around. As James ALLISON wrote a letter from Bury St.Edmunds in 1819 and > there is a Suffolk baptism for Sarah ALLISON in 1819, it seems clear that > Sarah was in fact the youngest child. > > http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/additional-information/a-surnames/1955-allison-james-extra-data > > > The other file I have added is for Thomas ROWLES, leader of ROWLES' Party. > Recent access to original Gloucestershire parish records revealed the family > in Stroud. > > > http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/additional-information/r-surnames/1958-rowles-thomas-extra-data > > > Sue > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Dear All, In the FAMILIA a number of years ago, there was an article about the CARSTEN brothers who took on the Alabama, according to the Author the CARSTEN brothers and their very fast sloop, did a lot of damage to the Alabama, a rematch was agreed upon, and when the Alabama returned to the Cape the US Marshals were waiting for the the Captain, who had stolen the ship, while supposing to delivering it to the US, has any one got that FAMILIA or knows of this version (in the correct format). Regards Andrea

Hi List Looking for any sightings of the MORGAN family baptized (received into) the Holy Trinity Church King Williamstown Nov 29 1892 The transcribed Parish record is indexed on LDS https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-23580-60379-79?cc=1468076 Parents are: David James MORGAN Amelia ? Witnesses (possibly grandparents?): Robert MORGAN Mary Children: William Savone (I think?) b Apr 1 1883 Violet Mary b Apr 26 1884>>>>>>>>>>this is the ancestor I am really interested in >>>I believe she married James Donald WILSON Frederick (??) Bruid (??) b Dec 28 1885 John Savone (?) b Oct 6 1887 I believe the family was originally from Wales….. Thanks Marcella Findlay Shames

There is an index to Familia on the eGGSA site. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: 10:20 AM EDT, 03/14/2015 From: andrea franks via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: "SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com" <SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Re the Carsten brothers Dear All, In the FAMILIA a number of years ago, there was an article about the CARSTEN brothers who took on the Alabama, according to the Author the CARSTEN brothers and their very fast sloop, did a lot of damage to the Alabama, a rematch was agreed upon, and when the Alabama returned to the Cape the US Marshals were waiting for the the Captain, who had stolen the ship, while supposing to delivering it to the US, has any one got that FAMILIA or knows of this version (in the correct format). Regards Andrea ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

[Speculative]: Hello: [b:14-03-1837]: Although GAL writes this date himself, it needs to be checked. The Hudson area is quite small, so can’t be too difficult to find his record there ?. His sister maintains he is b:1841/2. === About seven months before the Alabama's arrival, two young seamen from New York named George Albert Lloyd and Cornelius Gallagher slipped on shore from a Yankee clipper berthed in Table Bay Docks. "Yes, stare hard sonny, for if s not every day you'll see a man who came off the Alabama," said the storekeeper. George Albert Lloyd, the American sailor who founded Church Haven on the lagoon at Langebaan. Storekeeper had mixed up Lloyd's history a bit. "George left home for a sea voyage in October 1858, when he was sixteen. (I was eight)." Two young Americans reached the Paarl district feeling extremely hungry. They came to the lagoon on Christmas Eve (1862?). At Schryver's Hoek he was welcomed by Peter de Montfort owner of the fishery, invited young Lloyd to join them round their barrel of wine. De Montfort was a married man with several daughters. He had seen the world, it was more comfortable than the forecastle of an American clipper ship, and he stayed on. Often after a good catch De Montfort and Lloyd loaded an ox-wagon with smoked and salt fish and made leisurely journeys from village to village. Without previous warning the Alabama steamed into Saldanha Bay on the morning of July 29 1863. Among the boats that clustered round the Alabama was one with De Montfort and Lloyd on board. At the end of the day's hunting occurred the tragedy which Lloyd often described to his children in late years. Simeon W. Cummings had forgotten to unload his shotgun, the buckshot shattered his chest and fell dead on the sand. Lloyd had been a silent observer of the entertaining of the Alabama's crew. All the farmers attended the funeral of Cummings, and Lloyd went too. Marriage register "March 26, 1867. George Albert Lloyd (full age), fisherman of Schryver's Hoek, and Ellen de Montfort (17)." === [About seven months before the Alabama's arrival, two young seamen from New York named George Albert Lloyd and Cornelius Gallagher slipped on shore from a Yankee clipper berthed in Table Bay Docks]; [They came to the lagoon on Christmas Eve]; [CSS Alabama arrived 29-07-1863. GAL arrived about 7 months before]: The 7 months back here seems to go to December 1862 !. GAL was also at the funeral of Simeon W. Cummings, so I guess GAL saw the Alabama. There seemed to be a fair number of them, at least 15 when the Alabama was around here: I would be pointless maybe to list these, GAL came the years before this. === Peter Montfort (?) m. Ellen Wilhelmina \\, they have William Johannes Montfort bp:27-09-1865, and Peter Montfort dies before this birth. His wife Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort then m2 George Albert Lloyd. What should be Peter Montfort's brother William Montfort m. Catharine \\, they have a dg named after his brother's wife, Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort bp:16-12-1863. Their first 5 children are all bp:09-04-1862 !!!. George Albert Lloyd m:1854-1866 Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort, probably 1866 ?. [This is partly speculative!]. === https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3AMontfort%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22Cape%20of%20Good%20Hope%22~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22South%20Africa%22 Parents : William + Catharine Montfort. Carl Christian Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXR4 Cornelia Johanna Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXR6 John William Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXRZ Maria Magdalena Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXRK Peter Alexander Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXRN Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TJRQ === Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort has son bp:27-09-1865: William Johannes Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TFQ1 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-23604-14644-68 You can note no mention of her husband, probably died ?. Abode: Schryvershoek. Occ: Fisherman(/woman) (Crossed out). So I suspect Ellen Wilhelmina \\ m1. Peter? Montfort, m2:1867 George Albert Lloyd. This obviously needs more research and m. records etc. She would have been 14-15 years old when she m1. to Peter? Montfort. I have her bp:31-08-1850, but not sure of her maiden name. You need to know her maiden name to see if she is dg Montfort, or the wife of a Montfort. It seems to me the latter. === I suspect only that Peter Montfort has a brother [William Montfort m. Catharine \\] whose first 5 children all bp:09-04-1862. The 6th child Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort bp:16-12-1863, probably named after Peter Montfort’s wife/future wife [Ellen Wilhelmina \\]. === One can download several of his books here: https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator:%22Lawrence+GREEN%22 https://archive.org/download/AGiantInHiding/AGiantInHiding.pdf http://archive.org/stream/InTheLandOfAfternoon/InTheLandOfAfternoon_djvu.txt The PDF versions would make much quicker indexing ?, the texts can be copied etc. === Just reading further: [March 26, 1867. George Albert Lloyd (full age), fisherman of Schryver's Hoek, and Ellen de Montfort (17)]. === https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22George%20Albert%22~%20%2Bsurname%3ALloyd%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22Cape%20of%20Good%20Hope%22~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22South%20Africa%22 Catharina Maria Lloyd Ellen Wilhelmina Lloyd Margaret Catharina Lloyd Samuel Henry Lloyd Maria Almyra Lloyd William John Lloyd Emma Jane Isabella George Charles Lloyd Charles Alexander Lloyd Cornelia Magdelena Lloyd Ellen Wilhelmina Lloyd George Albert Lloyd === Bart. -----Original Message-----

Sue, Thank you very much! New information on my Oldham ancestors. I wonder if you have encountered the curious case of the Powrie family? Robert Powrie was born 16 May 1785 in Ballendean, Perth, Scotland. He was a soldier in the Royal Artllery at the Cape, where in 1816 he married Esther Deacon, the widow of Thomas Marrin, also of the RA. Their son, James, was born (at the Castle in Cape Town) on 23 Jul 1817. The family returned to London, where Robert was discharged. He applied as an 1820 Settler, but was refused. The family was, however, given passage to Cape Town on a navy vessel (landing in Simonstown), where Robert was a boot and shoemaker. So, the Powries are "independent" 1820 settlers, not part of the formal scheme, and never went near the Eastern Frontier. I often joke that my ancestor (James Powrie) is the only 1820 Settler born in South Africa! James Powrie married Josepha Dorcas Oldham, so I do have a legitimate 1820 ancestor claim. The mystery here is Esther Deacon. Family lore says she was from Ireland, but I doubt it. More likely, she was from London. So, my questions (not just for you): A) Is there any record of a marriage for Thomas MARRIN and Esther DEACON, probably in London or at the Cape? I have a marriage date of 15 Apr 1814 with no source. B) What documents are there on Robert Powrie's failed petition to be a Settler? I hear they exist, but I have not seen them, and do not know where they are. Hopefully, they will have some information on Esther's origins. By the way, Robert and Esther's second child, Martha, was born in London on 28 Aug 1819. Again, I have no proof of this fact. Their third child, Robert, was born in Cape Town on 3 Jul 1821 and died young. There were nine (!) more children. Sue, I will appreciate any help you or others can provide. I have the Powries pretty well, it is Esther Deacon who is the mystery. (And Thomas Marrin.) Best wishes, Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: 12:34 PM EDT, 03/13/2015 From: Sue Mackay via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: SA List <south-africa-l@rootsweb.com>, ZA-IB List <south-africa-immigrants-british-l@rootsweb.com>, EC List <south-africa-eastern-cape-l@rootsweb.com> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] 1820 Settler Update I have now completed the Settler Returns up to the end of the letter R (there is nothing for Russell's Party in the file) and hope to complete them before I go to Portugal at the end of next week. I was exceedingly grateful for the short respite while the eggsa site was down yesterday, as it gave me time to recover from transcribing the return for PARKER's Party. The man drove me mad with his correspondence and he did so again with his non standard returns! http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/settler-returns I have added a couple of extra information files. PARKER did at least give me the clue for James ALLISON, by stating that he was a pensioner of the 23rd Light Dragoons, and once I had found his discharge papers it was easy enough to track down his baptism and marriage in Scotland. Although his wife is listed as Ann, she was actually Agnes MAXWELL. The Settler Handbook lists Sarah (15) and Anne (1), whereas PARKER's Return at Kew lists them the other way around. As James ALLISON wrote a letter from Bury St.Edmunds in 1819 and there is a Suffolk baptism for Sarah ALLISON in 1819, it seems clear that Sarah was in fact the youngest child. http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/additional-information/a-surnames/1955-allison-james-extra-data The other file I have added is for Thomas ROWLES, leader of ROWLES' Party. Recent access to original Gloucestershire parish records revealed the family in Stroud. http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/additional-information/r-surnames/1958-rowles-thomas-extra-data Sue ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

[Speculative]: Hello: [b:14-03-1837]: Although GAL writes this date himself, it needs to be checked. The Hudson area is quite small, so can’t be too difficult to find his record there ?. His sister maintains he is b:1841/2. === About seven months before the Alabama's arrival, two young seamen from New York named George Albert Lloyd and Cornelius Gallagher slipped on shore from a Yankee clipper berthed in Table Bay Docks. "Yes, stare hard sonny, for if s not every day you'll see a man who came off the Alabama," said the storekeeper. George Albert Lloyd, the American sailor who founded Church Haven on the lagoon at Langebaan. Storekeeper had mixed up Lloyd's history a bit. "George left home for a sea voyage in October 1858, when he was sixteen. (I was eight)." Two young Americans reached the Paarl district feeling extremely hungry. They came to the lagoon on Christmas Eve (1862?). At Schryver's Hoek he was welcomed by Peter de Montfort owner of the fishery, invited young Lloyd to join them round their barrel of wine. De Montfort was a married man with several daughters. He had seen the world, it was more comfortable than the forecastle of an American clipper ship, and he stayed on. Often after a good catch De Montfort and Lloyd loaded an ox-wagon with smoked and salt fish and made leisurely journeys from village to village. Without previous warning the Alabama steamed into Saldanha Bay on the morning of July 29 1863. Among the boats that clustered round the Alabama was one with De Montfort and Lloyd on board. At the end of the day's hunting occurred the tragedy which Lloyd often described to his children in late years. Simeon W. Cummings had forgotten to unload his shotgun, the buckshot shattered his chest and fell dead on the sand. Lloyd had been a silent observer of the entertaining of the Alabama's crew. All the farmers attended the funeral of Cummings, and Lloyd went too. Marriage register "March 26, 1867. George Albert Lloyd (full age), fisherman of Schryver's Hoek, and Ellen de Montfort (17)." === [About seven months before the Alabama's arrival, two young seamen from New York named George Albert Lloyd and Cornelius Gallagher slipped on shore from a Yankee clipper berthed in Table Bay Docks]; [They came to the lagoon on Christmas Eve]; [CSS Alabama arrived 29-07-1863. GAL arrived about 7 months before]: The 7 months back here seems to go to December 1862 !. GAL was also at the funeral of Simeon W. Cummings, so I guess GAL saw the Alabama. There seemed to be a fair number of them, at least 15 when the Alabama was around here: I would be pointless maybe to list these, GAL came the years before this. === Peter Montfort (?) m. Ellen Wilhelmina \\, they have William Johannes Montfort bp:27-09-1865, and Peter Montfort dies before this birth. His wife Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort then m2 George Albert Lloyd. What should be Peter Montfort's brother William Montfort m. Catharine \\, they have a dg named after his brother's wife, Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort bp:16-12-1863. Their first 5 children are all bp:09-04-1862 !!!. George Albert Lloyd m:1854-1866 Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort, probably 1866 ?. [This is partly speculative!]. === https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3AMontfort%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22Cape%20of%20Good%20Hope%22~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22South%20Africa%22 Parents : William + Catharine Montfort. Carl Christian Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXR4 Cornelia Johanna Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXR6 John William Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXRZ Maria Magdalena Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXRK Peter Alexander Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TXRN Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TJRQ === Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort has son bp:27-09-1865: William Johannes Montfort : https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS4-TFQ1 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-23604-14644-68 You can note no mention of her husband, probably died ?. Abode: Schryvershoek. Occ: Fisherman(/woman) (Crossed out). So I suspect Ellen Wilhelmina \\ m1. Peter? Montfort, m2:1867 George Albert Lloyd. This obviously needs more research and m. records etc. She would have been 14-15 years old when she m1. to Peter? Montfort. I have her bp:31-08-1850, but not sure of her maiden name. You need to know her maiden name to see if she is dg Montfort, or the wife of a Montfort. It seems to me the latter. === I suspect only that Peter Montfort has a brother [William Montfort m. Catharine \\] whose first 5 children all bp:09-04-1862. The 6th child Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort bp:16-12-1863, probably named after Peter Montfort’s wife/future wife [Ellen Wilhelmina \\]. === One can download several of his books here: https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator:%22Lawrence+GREEN%22 https://archive.org/download/AGiantInHiding/AGiantInHiding.pdf http://archive.org/stream/InTheLandOfAfternoon/InTheLandOfAfternoon_djvu.txt The PDF versions would make much quicker indexing ?, the texts can be copied etc. === Just reading further: [March 26, 1867. George Albert Lloyd (full age), fisherman of Schryver's Hoek, and Ellen de Montfort (17)]. === Bart. -----Original Message-----

I have now completed the Settler Returns up to the end of the letter R (there is nothing for Russell's Party in the file) and hope to complete them before I go to Portugal at the end of next week. I was exceedingly grateful for the short respite while the eggsa site was down yesterday, as it gave me time to recover from transcribing the return for PARKER's Party. The man drove me mad with his correspondence and he did so again with his non standard returns! http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/settler-returns I have added a couple of extra information files. PARKER did at least give me the clue for James ALLISON, by stating that he was a pensioner of the 23rd Light Dragoons, and once I had found his discharge papers it was easy enough to track down his baptism and marriage in Scotland. Although his wife is listed as Ann, she was actually Agnes MAXWELL. The Settler Handbook lists Sarah (15) and Anne (1), whereas PARKER's Return at Kew lists them the other way around. As James ALLISON wrote a letter from Bury St.Edmunds in 1819 and there is a Suffolk baptism for Sarah ALLISON in 1819, it seems clear that Sarah was in fact the youngest child. http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/additional-information/a-surnames/1955-allison-james-extra-data The other file I have added is for Thomas ROWLES, leader of ROWLES' Party. Recent access to original Gloucestershire parish records revealed the family in Stroud. http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/additional-information/r-surnames/1958-rowles-thomas-extra-data Sue

Some years ago I was in correspondence with Linda Olivier (aka Linda-Lea Olivier) about the LINDHOLM family of Namibia and Namaqualand, but the e-mail addresses I had for her are not working. She was fairly active in genealogical circles 5-10 years ago, and I wondered if anyone had a current address for her. The last address I had for her was olindalea@yahoo. com, but that does not seem to be working. If anyone else is researching the LINDHOLM family, I'd be interested in hearing from them too. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk

Hello: That info is for one George Ellis Lloyd: <<< This is the only estate for 1916 for an George Lloyd: [DEPOT KAB; DESCRIPTION LLOYD, GEORGE ELLIS. DEATH NOTICE; STARTING 1916 ENDING 1916] >>>. === DEPOT KAB DESCRIPTION HISTORICAL INFORMATION. MISCELLANEOUS ENQUIRIES BY THE PUBLIC. AMERICAN SAILOR GEORGE ALBERT LLOYD. === George Arrived in Table Bay on a Yankee clipper 7 months before the arrival of the Alabama. d:1916. b:1842 Hudson, New York. A sister wrote a letter saying 'George left home for a sea voyage in 1858 when he was 16 years old (I was 8 years old) we had a civil war and he never returned home'. >>> Some things don't add up: 1858-16=1842, what DoB do you have for GAL (14-03-1837) ?. That would make him 21 in 1858. The civil war started 1861, so probably means the civil war started whilst he was still away. His sister should know she was 8 in 1858, do you have this sister b:1850 ?. http://www.examiner.com/article/the-american-who-welcomed-the-css-alabama-into-african-waters : The CSS Alabama arrived here 29-07-1863, and said GAL arrived about 7 months before. [He became a sailor and travelled extensively before deserting ship in Cape Town]: If he left NY in 1858, arrived CT about 01-1863, that is 4-5 years of ship(s) and ports to look into ?. [George Albert Lloyd; Cornelius Gallagher]: Both on same ship etc. It can also be asked why [Cornelius Gallagher] isn't mentioned as also being [The American who welcomed the CSS Alabama into African waters] ???. I assume he was American ?. https://books.google.co.za/books?id=2BL2AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA1194#v=onepage&q&f=false : It seems the Alabama came into the Cape a second time in 03-1864. It is about 7/8 months from 08-1863. === The Yankee Clipper seems to be a 3 mast and fast merchant sailing ship, in this case, probably carrying goods for export/sale in the Cape. There seemed to be a fair number of them, at least 15 when the Alabama was around here. [GAL in 1850C NY, not in 1860C]; [Lawrence Green inaccurate: GAL not associated with the Alabama]. === Peter Montfort (?) m. Ellen Wilhelmina \\, they have William Johannes Montfort bp:27-09-1865, and Peter Montfort dies before this birth. His wife Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort then m2 George Albert Lloyd. What should be Peter Montfort's brother William Montfort m. Catharine \\, they have a dg named after his brother's wife, Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort bp:16-12-1863. Their first 5 children are all bp:09-04-1862 !!!. George Albert Lloyd m:1854-1866 Ellen Wilhelmina Montfort, probably 1866 ?. === >From what I can see: [George Arrived in Table Bay on a Yankee clipper 7 months before the arrival of the Alabama]: You would want the original reference for this. The book was written on facts and also family stories. If this part is based on family stories, it is quite possible he never even saw the CSS Alabama at all!. Bart.