My experience is limited to the Cape Town Archives, which I visited during 2013, looking for information about my wife's family (Beelders-Fulton). The staff were affable and friendly, and tried hard, but the systems there are either shambolic or unintelligible to a new-comer and, by all appearances, to the staff also. If it hadn't been for Heather McAllister's sister who happened to be there when we were, we'd have got nowhere at all. This kind lady saw us in our state of helplessness, and accosted us, offering to take us to all the right places, help us navigate the Death Notices index, and provided other tips which got us quite a long way. Unfortunately a great many of those we already knew of from family folk-lore were either remiss in complying with the Administration of Estates Act and the preceding Roman-Dutch common law requirements, or too poor to require a Death Notice, even when the threshold was only 100 pounds. But the Western Cape Telephone Directory provided us with a lot of telephone numbers of people with the Beelders surname, and while we were there we took advantage of local call rates to follow up several of these names, though a number of them turned out to be dead, while others were not available in work hours. Still, we got at least as much out of that as from the Archives. It therefore doesn't surprise me that other Archives round the country show the same symptoms; indeed, we encountered similar failings in Government Departments and Agencies around the country, and the few efficient and hard-working officers we did encounter uniformly attributed the general malaise to rampant political correctness, reflected in the old joke about appointing "whoever is best for the job, provided she's black"! Andrew Rodger rodgera@audioio.com On 14/04/2015, at 5:21 AM, Denise Igesund via wrote: > > The archives in Pietermaritzburg are very much open . I regularly do > research and document copying. I will check my details for their correct > email address. I think it has changed. I have a little booklet with their > contact details on. I have just moved so not really at my finger tips. I > will get it out tomorrow. > > -----Original Message----- > From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Keith Meintjes via > Sent: 26 October 2014 04:14 AM > To: rayhayes@bigpond.net.au; south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or > do they not respond to emails? > > Ray, > > The eggsa service is probably the most reliable way to get photos of > documents. > > www.eggsa.org > > Keith > > ------ Original Message ------ > Received: 08:08 PM EDT, 10/25/2014 > From: Ray Hayes via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > To: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do > they not respond to emails? > > Hi, > > I sent emails to the addresses from their website, but each "bounced". > > I then sent an email to Enquiries2@dac.gov.za to ask how to obtain a copy of > a record held at Pietermaritzberg Archives. > > Someone called "Granny" replied and provided an email address, which was not > valid. I replied and asked for a valid email address and "Granny" > provided pmbarchives@kzndac.gov.za > > I sent my request to that email address just over a month ago but have not > received a response. > > Has anyone on the list had any recent successful contact with the > Pietermaritzberg Archives? > > Regards > > Ray Hayes > > Hobart, Tasmania, Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 14 Apr 2015 at 7:04, Milly & Adrian Rowe wrote: > Yes the renovations are complete, but when I was there about 1 month ago, > their lift had broken down owing to load shedding! This meant that all > documents/registers requested had to be carried down however many flights of > stairs from wherever they normally resided! There was therefore a delay and > rather weary staff! Thanks for that. We've got a huge list of stuff to look up there, but last time we were there the whole place spelt of wet cement, the archivalia were in boxes up and down the staircase4s, and they only let you look at 3 records in a day. Not sure when we'll next make it there, but I wanted to make sure that it was working when we do go! -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk

Hi Steve Yes the renovations are complete, but when I was there about 1 month ago, their lift had broken down owing to load shedding! This meant that all documents/registers requested had to be carried down however many flights of stairs from wherever they normally resided! There was therefore a delay and rather weary staff! Adrian Rowe -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes via Sent: 13 April 2015 11:22 PM To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do they not respond to emails? On 13 Apr 2015 at 21:21, Denise Igesund via wrote: > The archives in Pietermaritzburg are very much open . I regularly do > research and document copying. I will check my details for their > correct email address. I think it has changed. I have a little > booklet with their contact details on. I have just moved so not > really at my finger tips. I will get it out tomorrow. That is useful to know, as last time I was there they were having renovations done, which seemed to be taking a long time. Are the renovations complere? -- Steve Hayes E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 Fax: 086-548-2525

Good morning all I have received the following: _________________________________________________________ Joshua Connection Day 2015 Are you connected in any way to the JOSHUA family in South Africa? If so, this is for YOU! Date: Monday 27 April 2015 (Public Holiday) Time: 10am to 2pm Venue: Recreation HALL, Pollsmoor Correctional Centre, Tokai, Cape Town Entrance fee: R10 (children under 18 enter free !) IMPORTANT !!! To attend this event, you have to REGISTER !! E-mail joshuafamilyinsa@gmail.com or CALL us at 083 285 6724

Try this address NelP@kzndac.gov.za . Pieter Nel is the man in charge, he will ensure that things happen. -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Denise Igesund via Sent: 13 April 2015 21:22 To: 'Keith Meintjes'; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do they not respond to emails? The archives in Pietermaritzburg are very much open . I regularly do research and document copying. I will check my details for their correct email address. I think it has changed. I have a little booklet with their contact details on. I have just moved so not really at my finger tips. I will get it out tomorrow. -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Keith Meintjes via Sent: 26 October 2014 04:14 AM To: rayhayes@bigpond.net.au; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do they not respond to emails? Ray, The eggsa service is probably the most reliable way to get photos of documents. www.eggsa.org Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: 08:08 PM EDT, 10/25/2014 From: Ray Hayes via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do they not respond to emails? Hi, I sent emails to the addresses from their website, but each "bounced". I then sent an email to Enquiries2@dac.gov.za to ask how to obtain a copy of a record held at Pietermaritzberg Archives. Someone called "Granny" replied and provided an email address, which was not valid. I replied and asked for a valid email address and "Granny" provided pmbarchives@kzndac.gov.za I sent my request to that email address just over a month ago but have not received a response. Has anyone on the list had any recent successful contact with the Pietermaritzberg Archives? Regards Ray Hayes Hobart, Tasmania, Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 13 Apr 2015 at 21:21, Denise Igesund via wrote: > The archives in Pietermaritzburg are very much open . I regularly do > research and document copying. I will check my details for their correct > email address. I think it has changed. I have a little booklet with their > contact details on. I have just moved so not really at my finger tips. I will > get it out tomorrow. That is useful to know, as last time I was there they were having renovations done, which seemed to be taking a long time. Are the renovations complere? -- Steve Hayes E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 Fax: 086-548-2525

I will do a lookup for you when I go again if you wish. -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ray Hayes via Sent: 26 October 2014 02:05 AM To: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do they not respond to emails? Hi, I sent emails to the addresses from their website, but each "bounced". I then sent an email to Enquiries2@dac.gov.za to ask how to obtain a copy of a record held at Pietermaritzberg Archives. Someone called "Granny" replied and provided an email address, which was not valid. I replied and asked for a valid email address and "Granny" provided pmbarchives@kzndac.gov.za I sent my request to that email address just over a month ago but have not received a response. Has anyone on the list had any recent successful contact with the Pietermaritzberg Archives? Regards Ray Hayes Hobart, Tasmania, Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The archives in Pietermaritzburg are very much open . I regularly do research and document copying. I will check my details for their correct email address. I think it has changed. I have a little booklet with their contact details on. I have just moved so not really at my finger tips. I will get it out tomorrow. -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Keith Meintjes via Sent: 26 October 2014 04:14 AM To: rayhayes@bigpond.net.au; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do they not respond to emails? Ray, The eggsa service is probably the most reliable way to get photos of documents. www.eggsa.org Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: 08:08 PM EDT, 10/25/2014 From: Ray Hayes via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Pietermaritzberg Archives - Have they closed or do they not respond to emails? Hi, I sent emails to the addresses from their website, but each "bounced". I then sent an email to Enquiries2@dac.gov.za to ask how to obtain a copy of a record held at Pietermaritzberg Archives. Someone called "Granny" replied and provided an email address, which was not valid. I replied and asked for a valid email address and "Granny" provided pmbarchives@kzndac.gov.za I sent my request to that email address just over a month ago but have not received a response. Has anyone on the list had any recent successful contact with the Pietermaritzberg Archives? Regards Ray Hayes Hobart, Tasmania, Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If, so, would it be possible to do a quick lookup for me? I am looking for the mother's name of William Brooks born 1810 in England, married to Eva Johanna Luck. The ref I have is D/N....MOOC.....6/9/117...reference 3132 Liq. and Dist account. A transcription has William's mother's name as Marian, but I think it should be Hannah. I'm looking for a confirmer either way Many thanks -- Paul Tanner-Tremaine Hampshire, England email : eighteentwenty@btinternet.com website : www.1820Settlers.com

Sue, If there was a geni award for work above and beyond, you would surely get it. Thank you for your selfless effort over the years in revealing our ancestors to us. Eira Sent from my iPhone > On 11 Apr 2015, at 4:31 pm, Sue Mackay <rhoosesue@outlook.com> wrote: > > Just to let you know that I am back from holiday and the eggsa 1820 settler and newspaper sections are as up to date as I can make them. > > > Clive Jones has completed 1883 for BMDs from the Cape Times and all his transcriptions from 1881-1883 can be viewed at > http://www.eggsa.org/newspapers/index.php/cape-times > > > All the Settler Returns have been completed and can be viewed at > http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/settler-returns > > I have also improved the tables in the rest of the correspondence for ease of viewing and updated some links. The setting has now been restored to show Recently Updated files, so keep an eye out for any Extra Info files that have been added/amended. > > http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/ > > > I hope to photograph some more Grahamstown Journals in the next few weeks. > > > Sue >

Hi! I am a new member to the list, I am hoping there is SKS able to help with this query. James McDougall born c. 1845 Glasgow married 10 August 1881. Inverary. Scotland to Henrietta Elizabeth Jane Harrison born 23 December Isle of Man. They arrived South Africa sometime before 21 September 1882 when their son James Augustus Thyne McDougall was born, in East London South Africa. Chr. 14 Nov. 1882 at Home, East London. (there was a small newspaper clipping) James b1845 died in South Africa, because Henrietta and son came to Australia where Henrietta remarried. The two questions that need answers are. What ship and when did they arrive in South Africa. What happened to James McDougall (when and how did he die) Brenda Melbourne

Good Morning, Is anyone researching or have this family in their tree. Thomas JONES who married Amelia no name. In 1903 they were living in the Colesburg/Noupoort area. Regards Rod g Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

Just to let you know that I am back from holiday and the eggsa 1820 settler and newspaper sections are as up to date as I can make them. Clive Jones has completed 1883 for BMDs from the Cape Times and all his transcriptions from 1881-1883 can be viewed at http://www.eggsa.org/newspapers/index.php/cape-times All the Settler Returns have been completed and can be viewed at http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/settler-returns I have also improved the tables in the rest of the correspondence for ease of viewing and updated some links. The setting has now been restored to show Recently Updated files, so keep an eye out for any Extra Info files that have been added/amended. http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/ I hope to photograph some more Grahamstown Journals in the next few weeks. Sue

Once again we need a bit of help.  I have had a batch of 22 photographs submitted by the grand-daughter of Julia Dorothy Lloyd  for identification.  It is possible that they are of the Clarke or Sheppard family as the album came from Julia Dorothy who married Frances Lloyd: Thomas Clarke 1780 m. Eleanor Adelaide (Taylor) 1785. on the La Belle Alliance Son Thomas John Clarke 1807 m. Frances Clarke 1813-1845 then m Julia Ann Clarke (Muir). Daughter from second marriage was Jesse Agnes Clarke. 1865 married David Frederick Sheppard who d. 1926 Daughter Julia Dorothy 1894 m Frances Lloyd. The photos are at: www.1820settlers.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3657 Any help in identifying those in these photos will be appreciated. Many Thanks paul@1820settlers.com -- Paul Tanner-Tremaine Hampshire, England email      : eighteentwenty@btinternet.com website    : www.1820Settlers.com

Apologies to all- the date on the Wrapper is 1923.

I make that either 1760 or MDCCCLX. That fits better with the date on the piece of paper dated 1823. Andrew Rodger rodgera@audioio.com On 08/04/2015, at 6:23 PM, Bev via wrote: > > Have found a bible wrapped up in brown paper which I thought was a family > member of mine. Indirectly it is, but to my mother's brother. > > The Bible has the following written on the front board- John WINFIELD > Stanton by Dale April 20th 1862 and the publication date of the bible is > MDCCLX [1860] . The brown paper wrapper is actually a piece of paper from > Greenacres and the sticker says Mrs MITCHELL 210 Windermere Road 16/1/1823. > This is the address of my uncle's second wife-one of the older wood and iron > houses, and perhaps an original house, on the corner of Windermere and > Churchill I think. We called her Babs and this bible belongs to the MITCHELL > family. I know that she had a brother and 3 neices. Ring any bells out > there???? I certainly would like to give it back to the family.Bev > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Have found a bible wrapped up in brown paper which I thought was a family member of mine. Indirectly it is, but to my mother's brother. The Bible has the following written on the front board- John WINFIELD Stanton by Dale April 20th 1862 and the publication date of the bible is MDCCLX [1860] . The brown paper wrapper is actually a piece of paper from Greenacres and the sticker says Mrs MITCHELL 210 Windermere Road 16/1/1823. This is the address of my uncle's second wife-one of the older wood and iron houses, and perhaps an original house, on the corner of Windermere and Churchill I think. We called her Babs and this bible belongs to the MITCHELL family. I know that she had a brother and 3 neices. Ring any bells out there???? I certainly would like to give it back to the family.Bev

https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/book-of-common-prayer/table-of-kindred-and-affinity.aspx -----Original Message-----

On 7 Apr 2015 at 14:19, Irene de Villiers wrote: > > On Apr 7, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Deacon Stephen Hayes wrote: > > And ir was partly as a result of Darwin's ideas that the eugenics > > movement arose, which led to the banning on cousin marriage in the > > USA that you mention. > > On the contrary, both Charles Darwin and George Darwin supported cousin > marriage. I didn't say that Darwin himself deprecated it, but rather that the eugenics movement arose partly as a result of the spread of his ideas. As far as I am aware there has never been a legal prohibition against any kind of cousin marriage in South Africa, and it was the eugenics movement in the USA (which later spread to Nazi Germany) that deprecated it. I am also not aware of any rules in the UK that forbid cousin marriage. The Church of England's "Book of Common Prayer{" has a table of kindred and affinity who may not, according to the church's rules, marry each other. It begins by saying that a man may not marry his grandmother and a woman may not marry her grandfather, and this was largely in accordance with the law of the land, in England at least. I'm not sure about Scotland. There was a discrepancy a few decades ago when the secular government passed a law allowing a man to marry his deceased wife's sister, which the table of kindred and affinity did not allow. The secular law may now allow a man to marry his grandfather. . But at no point was there any law against cousin marriage. The deprecation of cousin marriage is found mainly in the USA. There are some societies that favour cousin marriage. On of the interesting things about this is that most of them favour cross-cousin marriage, and relatively few favour parallel cousin marriage. Anthropological studies tend to show that the reasons for this are mostly economic, based on the systems of inheritance in those societies. One interesting example is the Hereros of Namibia, who have both patrilineal and matrilineal systems of inheritance. The orozu is based on patrilineal descent, and eanda on matrilineal descent, with different herds of cattle belonging to each. My own church (the Orthodox Church) prohibits cousin marriages in its canon law -- you can find the details here: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/03/prohibited-marriages-in-orthodox- church.html Short URL: http://tinyurl.com/q2yhx9n This does not seem to have affected South African law, which is surprising in a way, because South African law is based on Roman-Dutch Law, and that is ultimately based on the Institutes of Justinian, which also affected Orthodox canon law. -- Dr Stephen Hayes Freelance writer, editor, missiologist and teacher PO Box 7648, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa Tel: 012-333-6727 or 083-342-3563 Fax: 086-548-2525 Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com

At the least, please give photographs of the bible and the genealogy information to eggsa. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: 04:29 AM EDT, 04/08/2015 From: Bev via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] John WINFIELD born 1862 Derbyshire Have found a bible wrapped up in brown paper which I thought was a family member of mine. Indirectly it is, but to my mother's brother. The Bible has the following written on the front board- John WINFIELD Stanton by Dale April 20th 1862 and the publication date of the bible is MDCCLX [1860] . The brown paper wrapper is actually a piece of paper from Greenacres and the sticker says Mrs MITCHELL 210 Windermere Road 16/1/1823. This is the address of my uncle's second wife-one of the older wood and iron houses, and perhaps an original house, on the corner of Windermere and Churchill I think. We called her Babs and this bible belongs to the MITCHELL family. I know that she had a brother and 3 neices. Ring any bells out there???? I certainly would like to give it back to the family.Bev ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message