Keith, Always sad to say goodbye to any book. I trust we will still be able to tap from your wisdom and experience as you have assisted many through the years. Regards, Willie Willie Lötz Bothaville,FS 9660 South Africa On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 9:01 AM, <south-africa-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Donating my library ... (Keith Meintjes) > 2. Re: Donating my library ... (Pat Frykberg) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:28:31 -0400 > From: "Keith Meintjes" <umfundi@usa.net> > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Donating my library ... > To: "SA List" <SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <471TFdabf3088S06.1435624111@web06.cms.usa.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > As I pack up my library to take it to the Allen County Public Library in > Fort > Wayne, Indiana, some thoughts and reminiscences: > > http://www.genealogycenter.org/ > > The collection is catalogued at librarything.com: Look for kmeintjes. > > de Villiers / Pama: > > About 2000 I bought the 2-volume set published by Balkema 1981. I was very > early (and fortunate) to get into buying books on the internet. > > SA Genealogies: > > Volumes 1-4 hardbound, the rest to Vol 17 in shaky glued softcover > bindings. > I > particularly remember being at GISA the day they received V8 (Pi-Q) and > being > given the first copy they unpacked. > > Keith > > More to come. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 17:02:24 +1200 > From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Donating my library ... > To: Keith Meintjes <umfundi@usa.net>, south-africa@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <509ECEE566A8416CB34F68B6EA01FBA4@PatricaPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > heartbreaking. Why do we LOVE our books so much. My ordinary sorts of books > get weighed shall-I-do-I-really-want-to-keep-this every year when they keep > falling out of the bookcases. But those of yours and like the SA ones I > had.............painful. > At least you will know where yours are. > Pat > - > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Keith Meintjes via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 12:28 PM > To: "SA List" <SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Donating my library ... > > > > > As I pack up my library to take it to the Allen County Public Library in > > Fort > > Wayne, Indiana, some thoughts and reminiscences: > > > > http://www.genealogycenter.org/ > > > > The collection is catalogued at librarything.com: Look for kmeintjes. > > > > de Villiers / Pama: > > > > About 2000 I bought the 2-volume set published by Balkema 1981. I was > very > > early (and fortunate) to get into buying books on the internet. > > > > SA Genealogies: > > > > Volumes 1-4 hardbound, the rest to Vol 17 in shaky glued softcover > > bindings. > > I > > particularly remember being at GISA the day they received V8 (Pi-Q) and > > being > > given the first copy they unpacked. > > > > Keith > > > > More to come. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1434 / Virus Database: 4311/9619 - Release Date: 06/29/15 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the SOUTH-AFRICA list administrator, send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the SOUTH-AFRICA mailing list, send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of SOUTH-AFRICA Digest, Vol 10, Issue 183 > ********************************************* >

As I pack up my library to take it to the Allen County Public Library in Fort Wayne, Indiana, some thoughts and reminiscences: http://www.genealogycenter.org/ The collection is catalogued at librarything.com: Look for kmeintjes. de Villiers / Pama: About 2000 I bought the 2-volume set published by Balkema 1981. I was very early (and fortunate) to get into buying books on the internet. SA Genealogies: Volumes 1-4 hardbound, the rest to Vol 17 in shaky glued softcover bindings. I particularly remember being at GISA the day they received V8 (Pi-Q) and being given the first copy they unpacked. Keith More to come.

Thank you Johann. Yes I think you are right about the Kameeldoring. I shall, in the morning, go to the soetdoring which sounds just what I am after. It was such lovely stuff to eat, picked off the bark, hardened by the air outside but like runny honey inside. Red or yellow. I can taste it still and that was 80 years ago! many thanks Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "Johann Hanekom via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:03 PM To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA (Pat Frykberg) > Hi Pat > > I think the trees you refer to are the 'Soetdoring' (Acacia karroo), see > https://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soetdoring, which produces a sweet gum as > you > described. > The other one could be the 'Kameeldoring' (Acacia erioloba), see > https://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kameeldoring > > Johann Hanekom > Lancaster UK > http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967&ged=hanekom.ged > > -----Original Message----- > From: south-africa-request@rootsweb.com > [mailto:south-africa-request@rootsweb.com] > Sent: 28 June 2015 08:01 > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: SOUTH-AFRICA Digest, Vol 10, Issue 180 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. The HUDSON family (Laquita Belinfante) > 2. Re: Name of two trees common in SWA (danielmalanjacobs) > 3. Re: The HUDSON family (Eighteen-Twenty Settlers) > 4. Re: Name of two trees common in SWA (Pat Frykberg) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 11:37:59 +0200 > From: "Laquita Belinfante" <belinfante@telkomsa.net> > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] The HUDSON family > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000b01d0b0bc$f5af9710$e10ec530$@telkomsa.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Megan > > I am hoping that you and fellow Listers can help me make a Hudson > connection. > > I am aware that two Hudson men came to South Africa. Maybe they were > brothers, Hougham and Henry. > > My HUDSON branch are descendant from Henry. The little information I have > is as follows: > > Henry *abt 1778 X Mary NN, Two sons, Richard and James. > > James HUDSON X Antoinette Annie LEHMAN. > > I have found two children, a daughter, Annie Antoinette HUDSON *1854 -1937 > X > Francis William JAMES in 1872 (son of 1820 settler Elizabeth KNIBBS) XX > Cornelis MOSTERT 1890. > And son, Charles William HUDSON *1862-1933 X Johanna Eveldina BRANDT > 1864-1934 in Potchefstroom. > > That is all the snippets of information that I have and a little on the > BRANDT family. > > I have assumed here that Annie Antoinette HUDSON and Charles William > HUDSON, > are sibling. > > Sincerely hoping someone can help here. > > Lucky > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 10:42:26 -0500 > From: danielmalanjacobs <danielmalanjacobs@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > To: Colin M?hr <mohr@lantic.net>, "south-africa@rootsweb.com" > <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <ydctx8yxrt9xg3g1um7mwpp4.1435419746995@email.android.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Pat I think the first one is what we call in Afrikaans a 'Karee boom' The > fancy name of probably one of the most common one's is Rhus Africanus. The > only fancy name of a tree I know.? > > Regards > > Daniel > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Colin M?hr via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Date: 27/06/2015 01:59 (GMT-04:00) > To: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz>,south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > > Hi Pat, > If you click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/species_a.htm > and scroll through, you will probably recognise the second tree, probably > a > smaller sort of ACACIA. > Kind Regards, > Colin Mohr > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > > >> There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have >> these answers for me ? >> >> 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It >> carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp >> taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty >> beige > >> and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? >> Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. >> >> 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet >> gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick >> honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red,? or dried in yellowish sweet >> crisp? lumps. >> >> These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the >> answers, please. >> Many thanks >> Patricia Frykberg. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 12:01:45 +0000 (UTC) > From: Eighteen-Twenty Settlers <eighteentwenty@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] The HUDSON family > To: Laquita Belinfante <belinfante@telkomsa.net>, > "south-africa@rootsweb.com" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <159843622.1188938.1435406505750.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Lucky, > Good luck with this one!? > I have had quite a lot of correspondence over the years with various > family > researchers on the Hudsons, and they are a challenge. ?Unfortunately I > don't > think we will ever get the truth behind all this. ?I have it thata) Henry > died at sea on the John en route or before sailing to South Africa - The > Settler Handbook, page 80, Hayhurst's partyb) There is some doubt that > Henry > was actually married to Mary (Mary Hugget Hudson, born May 1797, sister of > Hougham Hudson). ?It is thought that they declared as man and wife by > Hayhurst, to save on the costs of the scheme and that their children, > Richard and James, were actually her younger brothers. ?Their reported > ages > differ between Morse Jones and Nash. > I do have quite a few notes on this 'family' under the respective persons > on > my www.1820Settlers.com,?mainly written by Rob Prestwich, a Hudson and > Robinson researcher. ?We also have it that James married a Rosa Collier, > but > no source. > Regards > Paul TT?-- > Paul Tanner-Tremaine > Hampshire, England > email : eighteentwenty@btinternet.com > website : www.1820Settlers.com > > > On Saturday, 27 June 2015, 10:42, Laquita Belinfante via > <south-africa@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Megan > > I am hoping that you and fellow Listers can help me make a Hudson > connection. > > I am aware that two Hudson men came to South Africa. Maybe they were > brothers, Hougham and Henry. > > My HUDSON branch are descendant from Henry.? The little information I have > is as follows: > > Henry *abt 1778 X Mary NN, Two sons, Richard and James. > > James HUDSON X Antoinette Annie LEHMAN. > > I have found two children, a daughter, Annie Antoinette HUDSON *1854 -1937 > X > Francis William JAMES in 1872 (son of 1820 settler Elizabeth KNIBBS)? XX > Cornelis MOSTERT 1890.? > And son, Charles William HUDSON *1862-1933 X Johanna Eveldina BRANDT > 1864-1934 in Potchefstroom. > > That is all the snippets of information that I have and a little on the > BRANDT family. > > I have assumed here that Annie Antoinette HUDSON and Charles William > HUDSON, > are sibling. > > Sincerely hoping someone can help here. > > Lucky > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 05:29:52 +1200 > From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > To: danielmalanjacobs <danielmalanjacobs@gmail.com>, > south-africa@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <448FD66DBA6B4A0A932B7AC7B4C57211@PatricaPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8; > reply-type=original > > Thanks Dan. I'll explore that. The name is certainly familiar. > Pat > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "danielmalanjacobs via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 3:42 AM > To: "Colin M?hr" <mohr@lantic.net>; <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > >> Pat I think the first one is what we call in Afrikaans a 'Karee boom' The >> fancy name of probably one of the most common one's is Rhus Africanus. >> The > >> only fancy name of a tree I know. >> >> Regards >> >> Daniel >> >> >> Sent from Samsung Mobile >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Colin M?hr via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> >> Date: 27/06/2015 01:59 (GMT-04:00) >> To: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz>,south-africa@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA >> >> Hi Pat, >> If you click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/species_a.htm >> and scroll through, you will probably recognise the second tree, probably >> a >> smaller sort of ACACIA. >> Kind Regards, >> Colin Mohr >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> >> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> >> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM >> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA >> >> >>> There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have >>> these answers for me ? >>> >>> 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It >>> carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp >>> taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty >>> beige >>> and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? >>> Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. >>> >>> 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the >>> sweet >>> gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very >>> thick >>> honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red, or dried in yellowish sweet >>> crisp lumps. >>> >>> These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the >>> answers, please. >>> Many thanks >>> Patricia Frykberg. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1434 / Virus Database: 4311/9605 - Release Date: 06/27/15 >> > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the SOUTH-AFRICA list administrator, send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the SOUTH-AFRICA mailing list, send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of SOUTH-AFRICA Digest, Vol 10, Issue 180 > ********************************************* > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1434 / Virus Database: 4311/9611 - Release Date: 06/28/15 >

On 28 Jun 2015 at 21:20, Pat Frykberg via wrote: > Thank you Johann. Yes I think you are right about the Kameeldoring. I shall, > in the morning, go to the soetdoring which sounds just what I am after. It was > such lovely stuff to eat, picked off the bark, hardened by the air outside but > like runny honey inside. Red or yellow. I can taste it still and that was 80 > years ago! many thanks Pat We have a large thorn tree in the corner of aour garden, which might be similar to the ones at Okahandja. as it is the kind that would grow best next to rivers, and I seem to remember similar trees along the banks of the Swakop. I'd interested if anyone could tell us the name of our tree too. Pictures here, all over catkins in the spring: https://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/springtime-and-catkins/ and being trimmed after a bit fell off last autumn: https://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/trimming-a-tree/ -- Keep well, Steve & Val Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Phone: 073-759-0353 (cell) 012-333-6727 (landline) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Many thanks for the suggestion, Terry. I will definitely follow through on this. Kind regards Megan Hudson From: Terry <turner@thewebsurfer.co.za> Date: Friday, 26 June 2015 19:19 To: Megan Hudson <megan@business-zone.co.za>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: RE: [SOUTH-AFRICA] FW: Cecelia Margaret Frances (nee Duncan) and Florence Katherine Louise Frances You may find your local LDS genealogical library has a copy of the Scottish parochial records. Terry -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Megan Hudson via Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 16:37 To: Nivard Ovington; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] FW: Cecelia Margaret Frances (nee Duncan) and Florence Katherine Louise Frances Dear Nivard Many thanks for your troubles and the recommendation to look in Crockfords or the clerical directory (hadn't heard of these before). In response to your queries: I am embarrassed to say that I do not have a marriage certificate for Frederick Harris and Florence Katherine Louisa Francis ­ in fact, now that the matter has been raised, I can't track down where I got that date from! I am also not able to supply you with a page reference from Scotland's People. The information that I received from a search very kindly undertaken by Emma Maxwell was "We¹ve had a wee look and we can say that the Cecil/Cecilia Duncan you found living in Langholm in the 1851 census was still in the UK in 1901. This means that if the family record you have is correct (stating that Cecilia moved to Queenstown in South Africa in 1885) this cannot be your Cecilia either. " The only additional piece of (anecdotal) information that I can add ­ having revisited all of the sources of my information ­ is that Florence Katherine Louisa Frances may have been born in Nelson, Lancashire in about September 1878/9 (this info was passed on verbally from my grandmother to my mother with no documentary evidence supporting it). In fact, if it wasn't for the existence of her gravestone giving her name and date of death, I would almost be inclined to think that she was a figment of someone's imagination! Once again, many thanks for your suggestions and for searching your resources. Kind regards Megan From: <south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com> on behalf of Nivard Ovington via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, 26 June 2015 12:48 To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] FW: Cecelia Margaret Frances (nee Duncan) and Florence Katherine Louise Frances Having cast around I have nothing firm for you I thought I was onto something with a family in Hull Father John, mother Lucy , James, George & a Florence as children But they are still in the UK in 1911 and Florence married a LAKE so not them after all Does not the 1900 marriage cert record the fathers name and occupation? For the FRANCIS/FRANCES clergyman, have you checked through Crockfords or the Clerical directory for any in Lancashire of the right period? Where did scotlandspeople find her in 1901 in England? do you have the page reference as I cannot locate her Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/06/2015 08:22, Megan Hudson via wrote: > Dear Listers > > I am genetically-challenged by my great-great-grandmother, > Cecilia/Cecelia Margaret Frances/Francis (nee Duncan). > > What I have unearthed to date is the following: > > Birth year: 1847 in either England or Scotland. (she was described as > a "broad scot") Date of death: unknown, but may have been in South > Africa either in the Eastern Cape or in Durban > Siblings: George Duncan, James Duncan > Father: first name unknown but said to be "of private means". > Surname Duncan > Mother: called "Lucy" but this may have been a nickname. Maiden name > unknown but also said to have been "of private means". Lucy came out > to ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1549 Spam messages and set aside 3748 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com

Dear Nivard This has been a wonderful tutorial in research from you, and I thank you so much ­ I never knew one could search "FRANC*S"! Again, I can't find the origin of the date of birth for F.K.L.!!! I will start with the birth certificate and marriage certificate routes. Many, many thanks once again for all your time and valued advice. Kind regards Megan Hudson From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> Date: Friday, 26 June 2015 20:05 To: Megan Hudson <megan@business-zone.co.za>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] FW: Cecelia Margaret Frances (nee Duncan) and Florence Katherine Louise Frances Hi Megan I suspect your best course of action is to find that marriage if you can, then the fathers of each party will be known and with their occupations should help get you further back with more confidence In your tree on Ancestry you have Florence's birth date as 27th July 1878, is that from her gravestone/death cert ? Of course that could be faulty information from the informant but in my experience whilst the year might be a year of so out the date when stated is usually correct I found no births for a Florence Katherine FRANC*S anywhere in Eng/Wales 1876 to 1880 If born in Nelson the birth should be registered in the Burnley registration district Only four FRANC*S births registered in Burnley reg dist 1876 to 1880 Births Dec 1878 Francis Minnie Burnley 8e 298 Born Colne with parents John & Marg in 1881 Colne Births Mar 1879 Francis Ernest James Burnley 8e 257 Births Jun 1879 Francis William Burnley 8e 226 Born Burnley with parents William & Sarah H in Habergham Eaves Lancs 1881 Births Sep 1880 FRANCIS Ann Burnley 8e 286 Only one FRANC*S death reg in Burnley 1876 to 1880 Deaths Jun 1880 Frances John 42 Burnley 8e 160 No marriage found between a FRANC*S & a DUNCAN anywhere in England, Wales or Scotland 1863 to 1880 Ancestry have some Crockfords, relevant to your search 1874 & 1885, checked for any FRANC*S with a Lancashire connection, I checked through but none appeared to fit the bill, however Crockfords was published annually and there may be some FRANC*S in the intervening issues Another ploy you might like to try, is to order a birth certificate for your Florence Katherine FRANCIS b1878 If you order online with no GRO index reference, it gives the option of checking points, you might say mother surnamed DUNCAN, I would add to much as you may stop them issuing the very cert you want You pay for a standard certificate, if they find a match you get the certificate, if they don't you get a refund Only in the highly unlikely event of there being two matching certs would there be a problem My guess is they wouldn't find one but its worth trying Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/06/2015 15:36, Megan Hudson wrote: > Dear Nivard > > Many thanks for your troubles and the recommendation to look in > Crockfords or the clerical directory (hadn't heard of these before). In > response to your queries: > > I am embarrassed to say that I do not have a marriage certificate for > Frederick Harris and Florence Katherine Louisa Francis ­ in fact, now > that the matter has been raised, I can't track down where I got that > date from! > > I am also not able to supply you with a page reference from Scotland's > People. The information that I received from a search very kindly > undertaken by Emma Maxwell was "We¹ve had a wee look and we can say that > the Cecil/Cecilia Duncan you found living in Langholm in the 1851 census > was still in the UK in 1901. This means that if the family record you > have is correct (stating that Cecilia moved to Queenstown in South > Africa in 1885) this cannot be your Cecilia either. " > > The only additional piece of (anecdotal) information that I can add ­ > having revisited all of the sources of my information ­ is that Florence > Katherine Louisa Frances may have been born in Nelson, Lancashire in > about September 1878/9 (this info was passed on verbally from my > grandmother to my mother with no documentary evidence supporting it). > In fact, if it wasn't for the existence of her gravestone giving her > name and date of death, I would almost be inclined to think that she was > a figment of someone's imagination! > > Once again, many thanks for your suggestions and for searching your > resources. > > Kind regards > Megan

Hi Lucky Hmmm ­ I recall looking through the info that I have on the Hudsons a few months ago in response to an email from you, but research continually yields new threads. My husband is a direct descendent of Hougham. I've looked through all my info and include what I have on that generation below. The parents and siblings that I have on record for Hougham Hudson (1820 settler) are: Father: Hougham Hudson b. 1769 (son of Samuel Hougham Hudson) Mother: Mary Hugget b. 1770 Children: Anne George Hougham b. 1798 d. 1860 m. Elizabeth Ann Walker Mary May b. 1797 (Presumably the Mary Hugget Hudson that Paul refers to) Thomas b. 1800 Richard b. 1803 William b. 1809 d. 1869 m. Adriana Maria Margaretha Rademeyer Most of my information on the Hudson family came from a document written by a lady, Daphne Childs, which I sent to Paul a while ago and which you should be able to access on his website (www.1820settlers.com). Kind regards Megan Hudson (née Burgess) From: <south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com> on behalf of Eighteen-Twenty Settlers via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: Eighteen-Twenty Settlers <eighteentwenty@btinternet.com>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, 27 June 2015 14:01 To: Laquita Belinfante <belinfante@telkomsa.net>, "south-africa@rootsweb.com" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] The HUDSON family Hi Lucky, Good luck with this one! I have had quite a lot of correspondence over the years with various family researchers on the Hudsons, and they are a challenge. Unfortunately I don't think we will ever get the truth behind all this. I have it thata) Henry died at sea on the John en route or before sailing to South Africa - The Settler Handbook, page 80, Hayhurst's partyb) There is some doubt that Henry was actually married to Mary (Mary Hugget Hudson, born May 1797, sister of Hougham Hudson). It is thought that they declared as man and wife by Hayhurst, to save on the costs of the scheme and that their children, Richard and James, were actually her younger brothers. Their reported ages differ between Morse Jones and Nash. I do have quite a few notes on this 'family' under the respective persons on my www.1820Settlers.com, mainly written by Rob Prestwich, a Hudson and Robinson researcher. We also have it that James married a Rosa Collier, but no source. Regards Paul TT -- Paul Tanner-Tremaine Hampshire, England email : eighteentwenty@btinternet.com website : www.1820Settlers.com On Saturday, 27 June 2015, 10:42, Laquita Belinfante via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> wrote: Megan I am hoping that you and fellow Listers can help me make a Hudson connection. I am aware that two Hudson men came to South Africa. Maybe they were brothers, Hougham and Henry. My HUDSON branch are descendant from Henry. The little information I have is as follows: Henry *abt 1778 X Mary NN, Two sons, Richard and James. James HUDSON X Antoinette Annie LEHMAN. I have found two children, a daughter, Annie Antoinette HUDSON *1854 -1937 X Francis William JAMES in 1872 (son of 1820 settler Elizabeth KNIBBS) XX Cornelis MOSTERT 1890. And son, Charles William HUDSON *1862-1933 X Johanna Eveldina BRANDT 1864-1934 in Potchefstroom. That is all the snippets of information that I have and a little on the BRANDT family. I have assumed here that Annie Antoinette HUDSON and Charles William HUDSON, are sibling. Sincerely hoping someone can help here. Lucky --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pat, Would have answered sooner but been battling with a combination of rolling blackouts and genuine power failures. There is a central american tree called Prosopis and these are widespread as invasives in Namibia and in some of the drier areas of SA. The pods, which are long and constricted between the seeds like beans, make excellent animal fodder. I think this is why they were imported in the first place. The Acacia erioloba (Camel Thorn) has a short, broad, grey pod and looks very different to Prosopis. Sorry I can't help with the other plant. Paddy On 27 June 2015 at 03:50, Pat Frykberg via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> wrote: > There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have > these answers for me ? > > 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It > carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp > taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty beige > and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? > Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. > > 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet > gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick > honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red, or dried in yellowish sweet > crisp lumps. > > These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the > answers, please. > Many thanks > Patricia Frykberg. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Pat I think the trees you refer to are the 'Soetdoring' (Acacia karroo), see https://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soetdoring, which produces a sweet gum as you described. The other one could be the 'Kameeldoring' (Acacia erioloba), see https://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kameeldoring Johann Hanekom Lancaster UK http://www.hanekom.org.uk/gedview/individual.php?pid=I1967&ged=hanekom.ged -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-request@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-request@rootsweb.com] Sent: 28 June 2015 08:01 To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: SOUTH-AFRICA Digest, Vol 10, Issue 180 Today's Topics: 1. The HUDSON family (Laquita Belinfante) 2. Re: Name of two trees common in SWA (danielmalanjacobs) 3. Re: The HUDSON family (Eighteen-Twenty Settlers) 4. Re: Name of two trees common in SWA (Pat Frykberg) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 11:37:59 +0200 From: "Laquita Belinfante" <belinfante@telkomsa.net> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] The HUDSON family To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000b01d0b0bc$f5af9710$e10ec530$@telkomsa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Megan I am hoping that you and fellow Listers can help me make a Hudson connection. I am aware that two Hudson men came to South Africa. Maybe they were brothers, Hougham and Henry. My HUDSON branch are descendant from Henry. The little information I have is as follows: Henry *abt 1778 X Mary NN, Two sons, Richard and James. James HUDSON X Antoinette Annie LEHMAN. I have found two children, a daughter, Annie Antoinette HUDSON *1854 -1937 X Francis William JAMES in 1872 (son of 1820 settler Elizabeth KNIBBS) XX Cornelis MOSTERT 1890. And son, Charles William HUDSON *1862-1933 X Johanna Eveldina BRANDT 1864-1934 in Potchefstroom. That is all the snippets of information that I have and a little on the BRANDT family. I have assumed here that Annie Antoinette HUDSON and Charles William HUDSON, are sibling. Sincerely hoping someone can help here. Lucky --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 10:42:26 -0500 From: danielmalanjacobs <danielmalanjacobs@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA To: Colin M?hr <mohr@lantic.net>, "south-africa@rootsweb.com" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <ydctx8yxrt9xg3g1um7mwpp4.1435419746995@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Pat I think the first one is what we call in Afrikaans a 'Karee boom' The fancy name of probably one of the most common one's is Rhus Africanus. The only fancy name of a tree I know.? Regards Daniel Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Colin M?hr via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Date: 27/06/2015 01:59 (GMT-04:00) To: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz>,south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA Hi Pat, If you click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/species_a.htm and scroll through, you will probably recognise the second tree, probably a smaller sort of ACACIA. Kind Regards, Colin Mohr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have > these answers for me ? > > 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It > carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp > taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty beige > and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? > Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. > > 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet > gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick > honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red,? or dried in yellowish sweet > crisp? lumps. > > These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the > answers, please. > Many thanks > Patricia Frykberg. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 12:01:45 +0000 (UTC) From: Eighteen-Twenty Settlers <eighteentwenty@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] The HUDSON family To: Laquita Belinfante <belinfante@telkomsa.net>, "south-africa@rootsweb.com" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <159843622.1188938.1435406505750.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Lucky, Good luck with this one!? I have had quite a lot of correspondence over the years with various family researchers on the Hudsons, and they are a challenge. ?Unfortunately I don't think we will ever get the truth behind all this. ?I have it thata) Henry died at sea on the John en route or before sailing to South Africa - The Settler Handbook, page 80, Hayhurst's partyb) There is some doubt that Henry was actually married to Mary (Mary Hugget Hudson, born May 1797, sister of Hougham Hudson). ?It is thought that they declared as man and wife by Hayhurst, to save on the costs of the scheme and that their children, Richard and James, were actually her younger brothers. ?Their reported ages differ between Morse Jones and Nash. I do have quite a few notes on this 'family' under the respective persons on my www.1820Settlers.com,?mainly written by Rob Prestwich, a Hudson and Robinson researcher. ?We also have it that James married a Rosa Collier, but no source. Regards Paul TT?-- Paul Tanner-Tremaine Hampshire, England email : eighteentwenty@btinternet.com website : www.1820Settlers.com On Saturday, 27 June 2015, 10:42, Laquita Belinfante via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> wrote: Megan I am hoping that you and fellow Listers can help me make a Hudson connection. I am aware that two Hudson men came to South Africa. Maybe they were brothers, Hougham and Henry. My HUDSON branch are descendant from Henry.? The little information I have is as follows: Henry *abt 1778 X Mary NN, Two sons, Richard and James. James HUDSON X Antoinette Annie LEHMAN. I have found two children, a daughter, Annie Antoinette HUDSON *1854 -1937 X Francis William JAMES in 1872 (son of 1820 settler Elizabeth KNIBBS)? XX Cornelis MOSTERT 1890.? And son, Charles William HUDSON *1862-1933 X Johanna Eveldina BRANDT 1864-1934 in Potchefstroom. That is all the snippets of information that I have and a little on the BRANDT family. I have assumed here that Annie Antoinette HUDSON and Charles William HUDSON, are sibling. Sincerely hoping someone can help here. Lucky --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 05:29:52 +1200 From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA To: danielmalanjacobs <danielmalanjacobs@gmail.com>, south-africa@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <448FD66DBA6B4A0A932B7AC7B4C57211@PatricaPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8; reply-type=original Thanks Dan. I'll explore that. The name is certainly familiar. Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "danielmalanjacobs via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 3:42 AM To: "Colin M?hr" <mohr@lantic.net>; <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > Pat I think the first one is what we call in Afrikaans a 'Karee boom' The > fancy name of probably one of the most common one's is Rhus Africanus. The > only fancy name of a tree I know. > > Regards > > Daniel > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Colin M?hr via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Date: 27/06/2015 01:59 (GMT-04:00) > To: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz>,south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > > Hi Pat, > If you click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/species_a.htm > and scroll through, you will probably recognise the second tree, probably > a > smaller sort of ACACIA. > Kind Regards, > Colin Mohr > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > > >> There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have >> these answers for me ? >> >> 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It >> carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp >> taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty >> beige >> and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? >> Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. >> >> 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet >> gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick >> honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red, or dried in yellowish sweet >> crisp lumps. >> >> These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the >> answers, please. >> Many thanks >> Patricia Frykberg. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1434 / Virus Database: 4311/9605 - Release Date: 06/27/15 > ------------------------------ To contact the SOUTH-AFRICA list administrator, send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SOUTH-AFRICA mailing list, send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SOUTH-AFRICA Digest, Vol 10, Issue 180 *********************************************

Thanks Dan. I'll explore that. The name is certainly familiar. Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "danielmalanjacobs via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 3:42 AM To: "Colin Möhr" <mohr@lantic.net>; <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > Pat I think the first one is what we call in Afrikaans a 'Karee boom' The > fancy name of probably one of the most common one's is Rhus Africanus. The > only fancy name of a tree I know. > > Regards > > Daniel > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Colin Möhr via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > Date: 27/06/2015 01:59 (GMT-04:00) > To: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz>,south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > > Hi Pat, > If you click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/species_a.htm > and scroll through, you will probably recognise the second tree, probably > a > smaller sort of ACACIA. > Kind Regards, > Colin Mohr > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> > To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > > >> There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have >> these answers for me ? >> >> 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It >> carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp >> taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty >> beige >> and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? >> Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. >> >> 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet >> gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick >> honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red, or dried in yellowish sweet >> crisp lumps. >> >> These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the >> answers, please. >> Many thanks >> Patricia Frykberg. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1434 / Virus Database: 4311/9605 - Release Date: 06/27/15 >

There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have these answers for me ? 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty beige and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red, or dried in yellowish sweet crisp lumps. These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the answers, please. Many thanks Patricia Frykberg.

Hi Lucky, Good luck with this one!  I have had quite a lot of correspondence over the years with various family researchers on the Hudsons, and they are a challenge.  Unfortunately I don't think we will ever get the truth behind all this.  I have it thata) Henry died at sea on the John en route or before sailing to South Africa - The Settler Handbook, page 80, Hayhurst's partyb) There is some doubt that Henry was actually married to Mary (Mary Hugget Hudson, born May 1797, sister of Hougham Hudson).  It is thought that they declared as man and wife by Hayhurst, to save on the costs of the scheme and that their children, Richard and James, were actually her younger brothers.  Their reported ages differ between Morse Jones and Nash. I do have quite a few notes on this 'family' under the respective persons on my www.1820Settlers.com, mainly written by Rob Prestwich, a Hudson and Robinson researcher.  We also have it that James married a Rosa Collier, but no source. Regards Paul TT -- Paul Tanner-Tremaine Hampshire, England email : eighteentwenty@btinternet.com website : www.1820Settlers.com On Saturday, 27 June 2015, 10:42, Laquita Belinfante via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> wrote: Megan I am hoping that you and fellow Listers can help me make a Hudson connection. I am aware that two Hudson men came to South Africa. Maybe they were brothers, Hougham and Henry. My HUDSON branch are descendant from Henry.  The little information I have is as follows: Henry *abt 1778 X Mary NN, Two sons, Richard and James. James HUDSON X Antoinette Annie LEHMAN. I have found two children, a daughter, Annie Antoinette HUDSON *1854 -1937 X Francis William JAMES in 1872 (son of 1820 settler Elizabeth KNIBBS)  XX Cornelis MOSTERT 1890.  And son, Charles William HUDSON *1862-1933 X Johanna Eveldina BRANDT 1864-1934 in Potchefstroom. That is all the snippets of information that I have and a little on the BRANDT family. I have assumed here that Annie Antoinette HUDSON and Charles William HUDSON, are sibling. Sincerely hoping someone can help here. Lucky --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Megan I am hoping that you and fellow Listers can help me make a Hudson connection. I am aware that two Hudson men came to South Africa. Maybe they were brothers, Hougham and Henry. My HUDSON branch are descendant from Henry. The little information I have is as follows: Henry *abt 1778 X Mary NN, Two sons, Richard and James. James HUDSON X Antoinette Annie LEHMAN. I have found two children, a daughter, Annie Antoinette HUDSON *1854 -1937 X Francis William JAMES in 1872 (son of 1820 settler Elizabeth KNIBBS) XX Cornelis MOSTERT 1890. And son, Charles William HUDSON *1862-1933 X Johanna Eveldina BRANDT 1864-1934 in Potchefstroom. That is all the snippets of information that I have and a little on the BRANDT family. I have assumed here that Annie Antoinette HUDSON and Charles William HUDSON, are sibling. Sincerely hoping someone can help here. Lucky --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Pat I think the first one is what we call in Afrikaans a 'Karee boom' The fancy name of probably one of the most common one's is Rhus Africanus. The only fancy name of a tree I know.  Regards Daniel Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Colin Möhr via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Date: 27/06/2015 01:59 (GMT-04:00) To: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz>,south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA Hi Pat, If you click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/species_a.htm and scroll through, you will probably recognise the second tree, probably a smaller sort of ACACIA. Kind Regards, Colin Mohr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have > these answers for me ? > > 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It > carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp > taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty beige > and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? > Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. > > 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet > gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick > honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red,  or dried in yellowish sweet > crisp  lumps. > > These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the > answers, please. > Many thanks > Patricia Frykberg. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pat, If you click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantoftheweek/species_a.htm and scroll through, you will probably recognise the second tree, probably a smaller sort of ACACIA. Kind Regards, Colin Mohr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have > these answers for me ? > > 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It > carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp > taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty beige > and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? > Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. > > 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet > gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick > honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red, or dried in yellowish sweet > crisp lumps. > > These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the > answers, please. > Many thanks > Patricia Frykberg. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Pat, Click on http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantab/acaciaeriol.htm and at least one tree wil be sorted. Kind regards, Colin Mohr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Frykberg via" <south-africa@rootsweb.com> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <enquiry@puccini-namibia.com> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 3:50 AM Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Name of two trees common in SWA > There are botanists and naturalists out there who I am sure will have > these answers for me ? > > 1. The tree in question is, from my childhood's viewpoint quite tall. It > carried long pods we called boointjies, edible, green at first and sharp > taste, but later dried out a brown colour with the flesh now a dusty beige > and dry. I have had one description ---- is it called prosopis. ? > Camelthorn? I remember these from Okahandja, mainly. > > 2. On a smallish shrubby tree with I think thorns, we would eat the sweet > gum that oozed from a wound in the bark. Sometimes the gum was very thick > honey-like and sweet/woody and blood red, or dried in yellowish sweet > crisp lumps. > > These are memories going back to the 1930s. I would Love to have the > answers, please. > Many thanks > Patricia Frykberg. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You may find your local LDS genealogical library has a copy of the Scottish parochial records. Terry -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Megan Hudson via Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 16:37 To: Nivard Ovington; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] FW: Cecelia Margaret Frances (nee Duncan) and Florence Katherine Louise Frances Dear Nivard Many thanks for your troubles and the recommendation to look in Crockfords or the clerical directory (hadn't heard of these before). In response to your queries: I am embarrassed to say that I do not have a marriage certificate for Frederick Harris and Florence Katherine Louisa Francis ­ in fact, now that the matter has been raised, I can't track down where I got that date from! I am also not able to supply you with a page reference from Scotland's People. The information that I received from a search very kindly undertaken by Emma Maxwell was "We¹ve had a wee look and we can say that the Cecil/Cecilia Duncan you found living in Langholm in the 1851 census was still in the UK in 1901. This means that if the family record you have is correct (stating that Cecilia moved to Queenstown in South Africa in 1885) this cannot be your Cecilia either. " The only additional piece of (anecdotal) information that I can add ­ having revisited all of the sources of my information ­ is that Florence Katherine Louisa Frances may have been born in Nelson, Lancashire in about September 1878/9 (this info was passed on verbally from my grandmother to my mother with no documentary evidence supporting it). In fact, if it wasn't for the existence of her gravestone giving her name and date of death, I would almost be inclined to think that she was a figment of someone's imagination! Once again, many thanks for your suggestions and for searching your resources. Kind regards Megan From: <south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com> on behalf of Nivard Ovington via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, 26 June 2015 12:48 To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] FW: Cecelia Margaret Frances (nee Duncan) and Florence Katherine Louise Frances Having cast around I have nothing firm for you I thought I was onto something with a family in Hull Father John, mother Lucy , James, George & a Florence as children But they are still in the UK in 1911 and Florence married a LAKE so not them after all Does not the 1900 marriage cert record the fathers name and occupation? For the FRANCIS/FRANCES clergyman, have you checked through Crockfords or the Clerical directory for any in Lancashire of the right period? Where did scotlandspeople find her in 1901 in England? do you have the page reference as I cannot locate her Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/06/2015 08:22, Megan Hudson via wrote: > Dear Listers > > I am genetically-challenged by my great-great-grandmother, > Cecilia/Cecelia Margaret Frances/Francis (nee Duncan). > > What I have unearthed to date is the following: > > Birth year: 1847 in either England or Scotland. (she was described as > a "broad scot") Date of death: unknown, but may have been in South > Africa either in the Eastern Cape or in Durban > Siblings: George Duncan, James Duncan > Father: first name unknown but said to be "of private means". > Surname Duncan > Mother: called "Lucy" but this may have been a nickname. Maiden name > unknown but also said to have been "of private means". Lucy came out > to ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1549 Spam messages and set aside 3748 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com

Hi Megan I suspect your best course of action is to find that marriage if you can, then the fathers of each party will be known and with their occupations should help get you further back with more confidence In your tree on Ancestry you have Florence's birth date as 27th July 1878, is that from her gravestone/death cert ? Of course that could be faulty information from the informant but in my experience whilst the year might be a year of so out the date when stated is usually correct I found no births for a Florence Katherine FRANC*S anywhere in Eng/Wales 1876 to 1880 If born in Nelson the birth should be registered in the Burnley registration district Only four FRANC*S births registered in Burnley reg dist 1876 to 1880 Births Dec 1878 Francis Minnie Burnley 8e 298 Born Colne with parents John & Marg in 1881 Colne Births Mar 1879 Francis Ernest James Burnley 8e 257 Births Jun 1879 Francis William Burnley 8e 226 Born Burnley with parents William & Sarah H in Habergham Eaves Lancs 1881 Births Sep 1880 FRANCIS Ann Burnley 8e 286 Only one FRANC*S death reg in Burnley 1876 to 1880 Deaths Jun 1880 Frances John 42 Burnley 8e 160 No marriage found between a FRANC*S & a DUNCAN anywhere in England, Wales or Scotland 1863 to 1880 Ancestry have some Crockfords, relevant to your search 1874 & 1885, checked for any FRANC*S with a Lancashire connection, I checked through but none appeared to fit the bill, however Crockfords was published annually and there may be some FRANC*S in the intervening issues Another ploy you might like to try, is to order a birth certificate for your Florence Katherine FRANCIS b1878 If you order online with no GRO index reference, it gives the option of checking points, you might say mother surnamed DUNCAN, I would add to much as you may stop them issuing the very cert you want You pay for a standard certificate, if they find a match you get the certificate, if they don't you get a refund Only in the highly unlikely event of there being two matching certs would there be a problem My guess is they wouldn't find one but its worth trying Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/06/2015 15:36, Megan Hudson wrote: > Dear Nivard > > Many thanks for your troubles and the recommendation to look in > Crockfords or the clerical directory (hadn't heard of these before). In > response to your queries: > > I am embarrassed to say that I do not have a marriage certificate for > Frederick Harris and Florence Katherine Louisa Francis – in fact, now > that the matter has been raised, I can't track down where I got that > date from! > > I am also not able to supply you with a page reference from Scotland's > People. The information that I received from a search very kindly > undertaken by Emma Maxwell was "We’ve had a wee look and we can say that > the Cecil/Cecilia Duncan you found living in Langholm in the 1851 census > was still in the UK in 1901. This means that if the family record you > have is correct (stating that Cecilia moved to Queenstown in South > Africa in 1885) this cannot be your Cecilia either. " > > The only additional piece of (anecdotal) information that I can add – > having revisited all of the sources of my information – is that Florence > Katherine Louisa Frances may have been born in Nelson, Lancashire in > about September 1878/9 (this info was passed on verbally from my > grandmother to my mother with no documentary evidence supporting it). > In fact, if it wasn't for the existence of her gravestone giving her > name and date of death, I would almost be inclined to think that she was > a figment of someone's imagination! > > Once again, many thanks for your suggestions and for searching your > resources. > > Kind regards > Megan

Dear Nivard Many thanks for your troubles and the recommendation to look in Crockfords or the clerical directory (hadn't heard of these before). In response to your queries: I am embarrassed to say that I do not have a marriage certificate for Frederick Harris and Florence Katherine Louisa Francis ­ in fact, now that the matter has been raised, I can't track down where I got that date from! I am also not able to supply you with a page reference from Scotland's People. The information that I received from a search very kindly undertaken by Emma Maxwell was "We¹ve had a wee look and we can say that the Cecil/Cecilia Duncan you found living in Langholm in the 1851 census was still in the UK in 1901. This means that if the family record you have is correct (stating that Cecilia moved to Queenstown in South Africa in 1885) this cannot be your Cecilia either. " The only additional piece of (anecdotal) information that I can add ­ having revisited all of the sources of my information ­ is that Florence Katherine Louisa Frances may have been born in Nelson, Lancashire in about September 1878/9 (this info was passed on verbally from my grandmother to my mother with no documentary evidence supporting it). In fact, if it wasn't for the existence of her gravestone giving her name and date of death, I would almost be inclined to think that she was a figment of someone's imagination! Once again, many thanks for your suggestions and for searching your resources. Kind regards Megan From: <south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com> on behalf of Nivard Ovington via <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com>, <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, 26 June 2015 12:48 To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] FW: Cecelia Margaret Frances (nee Duncan) and Florence Katherine Louise Frances Having cast around I have nothing firm for you I thought I was onto something with a family in Hull Father John, mother Lucy , James, George & a Florence as children But they are still in the UK in 1911 and Florence married a LAKE so not them after all Does not the 1900 marriage cert record the fathers name and occupation? For the FRANCIS/FRANCES clergyman, have you checked through Crockfords or the Clerical directory for any in Lancashire of the right period? Where did scotlandspeople find her in 1901 in England? do you have the page reference as I cannot locate her Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/06/2015 08:22, Megan Hudson via wrote: > Dear Listers > > I am genetically-challenged by my great-great-grandmother, Cecilia/Cecelia > Margaret Frances/Francis (nee Duncan). > > What I have unearthed to date is the following: > > Birth year: 1847 in either England or Scotland. (she was described as a > "broad scot") > Date of death: unknown, but may have been in South Africa either in the > Eastern Cape or in Durban > Siblings: George Duncan, James Duncan > Father: first name unknown but said to be "of private means". Surname > Duncan > Mother: called "Lucy" but this may have been a nickname. Maiden name > unknown but also said to have been "of private means". Lucy came out to ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Having cast around I have nothing firm for you I thought I was onto something with a family in Hull Father John, mother Lucy , James, George & a Florence as children But they are still in the UK in 1911 and Florence married a LAKE so not them after all Does not the 1900 marriage cert record the fathers name and occupation? For the FRANCIS/FRANCES clergyman, have you checked through Crockfords or the Clerical directory for any in Lancashire of the right period? Where did scotlandspeople find her in 1901 in England? do you have the page reference as I cannot locate her Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/06/2015 08:22, Megan Hudson via wrote: > Dear Listers > > I am genetically-challenged by my great-great-grandmother, Cecilia/Cecelia > Margaret Frances/Francis (nee Duncan). > > What I have unearthed to date is the following: > > Birth year: 1847 in either England or Scotland. (she was described as a > "broad scot") > Date of death: unknown, but may have been in South Africa either in the > Eastern Cape or in Durban > Siblings: George Duncan, James Duncan > Father: first name unknown but said to be "of private means". Surname > Duncan > Mother: called "Lucy" but this may have been a nickname. Maiden name > unknown but also said to have been "of private means". Lucy came out to