On 22 May 2011, Trudie Marais wrote: > Dear Friends. > Is there anybody who has more info on the Lawyer Marais on this > extracted > 1914 diary list? What was his name, birth etc? Knowing this would > make it > easier to place him. Sorry, have I missed out on mail? Can anybody > please > tell me where and what the Bizana camp was. > I shall really appreciate it. > Thank you very much. > Regards. > Trudie Marais. I don't know what Bizana Camp WAS historically, but Google says it IS now the location a holiday resort situated in the Eastern Cape, one of a chain of holiday facilities. The chain's website links only to its own members and its map is not really satisfactory, but Map Studio's Road Atlas shows it about half-way in a straight line between Kokstad and Port Edward, fairly close to the Provincial border and on the R61. Andrew Rodger rodgera@audioio.com

On 21 May 2011, glynis wrote: > Morning All, > > I have an exercise book that was hand written and copied in 1921 in > Johannesburg, SA from the original by Gustarus Maxwell HALL to > sell for a > friend who acquired it, in a book sale. It has the HALL > genealogical record > of ancestors and descendants and some collateral relations of John > HALL > Esquire formally of Mollance, Kirkcudbrightshire (I presume > Scotland). It > was commenced by Maxwell HALL and completed in Nov 1892 by Charles > E. HALL. You presume correctly, though that county no longer exists as such. There was a re-organization of counties in the UK, mainly consolidation into larger units, though the largest, Yorkshire, was divided into two parts and a new county of Tyne and Wear, around Newcastle and Sunderland, came into existence; examples in Scotland were combining West Lothian, Midlothian and East Lothian to form "Lothians", Roxburgh, Berwick and Selkirk to form "Borders", Ayr, Lanark and Renfrew to form "Strathclyde", and (this case) Kirkcudbright and Dumfries to form "Dumfries and Galloway" and everything north and south-west of Inverness plus the Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland and the islands off the Mull of Kintyre to form "Highlands". In addition, some larger counties were simply further enlarged by absorption of small adjoining counties. Other new counties are Grampians and Central. England and Wales were changed similarly, but Northern Ireland seems to have retained its original six counties without change. I have a copy of "The Faber Atlas" (Sinclair), published by GEO, Oxford, in 1956, which shows all the old counties, and the Michelin Motoring Atlas of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, published in 1996, which shows the new counties. The above list is the best I can manage by comparing two maps compiled in very different formats. By "formally" I presume you mean "formerly": I cannot see Mollance on the Michelin map, but it may have been the name of a property rather than of a village; properties would be unlikely to appear on a tourist map, if they are not historic sites like Scone Palace or Balmoral Castle. Andrew Rodger rodgera@audioio.com

Dear Friends. Is there anybody who has more info on the Lawyer Marais on this extracted 1914 diary list? What was his name, birth etc? Knowing this would make it easier to place him. Sorry, have I missed out on mail? Can anybody please tell me where and what the Bizana camp was. I shall really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Regards. Trudie Marais.

Morning All, I have an exercise book that was hand written and copied in 1921 in Johannesburg, SA from the original by Gustarus Maxwell HALL to sell for a friend who acquired it, in a book sale. It has the HALL genealogical record of ancestors and descendants and some collateral relations of John HALL Esquire formally of Mollance, Kirkcudbrightshire (I presume Scotland). It was commenced by Maxwell HALL and completed in Nov 1892 by Charles E. HALL. As I have skimmed through this, I notice this family come from Scotland and the UK. Towards the back of the book I noticed that a branch of the HALL family arrived in South Africa - Edward B. HALL and married Ethel Marian YOUNG in 1918. Some name mentioned are: Stephenson, Bird, Vaux and Kirkbride. Decent from HALLS of Carlaton Family of William PARKE Esquire and Descendants of John HALL Esquire and some more. The exercise book has got some water damage, however it is readable, however very interesting to read. If interested, please contact me off list as my friend would dearly love it to go to a HALL family or descendant who would find value and interest in it. Regards, Glynis

Good morning Con, My sister went to school with an ASHBURNER in Port Elizabeth between 1951 and 1956. That was primary school. Maybe this can give you a domicile to work from. Regards, Lynette from OZ -------------------------------------------------- From: "Con Mercer" <mercon@global.co.za> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 1:18 AM To: <south-africa-l@rootsweb.com> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Researching ASHBURNER/PEAD/HARRISON/WENTZEL/ROSSFamilies > Hi All, > > A friend of mine has asked me to help him research his ASHBURNER family > tree, for which he has the following information > > He is the son of Andrew Allen ASHBURNER who was born on the 23 March 1926 > in Goodwood, and who died on the 2 Feb 1974 in Springs and Lorraine Iris > PEAD, born on the18 June 1925 in Salt River - they were married on the 6 > Nov > 1948 in Wynberg > > > Andrew Allen ASHBURNER was the son of Harry John ASHBURNER who was born in > about 1881 and who married Rosina HARRISON on the 4 Sept 1905. place > unknown. > > > > Iris PEAD was the daughter of Cecil Wyngard PEAD and Lulu Ross WENTZEL who > was born in about 1912 at Sea Point and who died on the 14 Sept 1959 in > Kenilworth, Cape Town > > > > Lulu Ross WENTZEL was the daughter of Lodewyk Willem WENTZEL and > Gerrindina > Louisa ROSS > > > > That is all the information we have at present, save for the brothers and > sister of Andrew Allen ASHBURNER - Does anyone see any connections to > their > own research or have any ideas on how to proceed to find the parents of > Harry John ASHBURNER - there is no reference to him in the Archives Data > Base? > > > > Any assistance greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Con Mercer > <http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/> http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We recently visited the Queenstown cemetery, where my great grandparents are buried. A lot of graves seem to have been vandalised. See: http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com/2011/05/cemetery-vandalism-in-queenstown.html -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com http://hayesfam.posterous.com/ E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk

Hi All, A friend of mine has asked me to help him research his ASHBURNER family tree, for which he has the following information He is the son of Andrew Allen ASHBURNER who was born on the 23 March 1926 in Goodwood, and who died on the 2 Feb 1974 in Springs and Lorraine Iris PEAD, born on the18 June 1925 in Salt River - they were married on the 6 Nov 1948 in Wynberg Andrew Allen ASHBURNER was the son of Harry John ASHBURNER who was born in about 1881 and who married Rosina HARRISON on the 4 Sept 1905. place unknown. Iris PEAD was the daughter of Cecil Wyngard PEAD and Lulu Ross WENTZEL who was born in about 1912 at Sea Point and who died on the 14 Sept 1959 in Kenilworth, Cape Town Lulu Ross WENTZEL was the daughter of Lodewyk Willem WENTZEL and Gerrindina Louisa ROSS That is all the information we have at present, save for the brothers and sister of Andrew Allen ASHBURNER - Does anyone see any connections to their own research or have any ideas on how to proceed to find the parents of Harry John ASHBURNER - there is no reference to him in the Archives Data Base? Any assistance greatly appreciated. Regards, Con Mercer <http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/> http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/

Hi All, I have two books that I am trying to sell, as follows: 1. War and Peace in South Africa 1879 - 1881 - The writings of Philip Anstruther and Edward Essex - By Dr Paul H Butterfield - ISBN 0 947025 18 9 2. A Narrative of the Boer War by Thomas Fortescue Carter - ISBN 0 947025 05 7 Both books are from Scripta Africana and both are limited editions (1 of only 1000 printed, with both books having validation certificates). Both bools are in good condition. If you are interested in purchasing either of these books or both, please contact me directly off list. Regards, Con Mercer http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/

Hello Donna I looked in the Kimberley Directory for 1914/5 and I see there is a Pieter H. Coetzee living at 4 Central Road Beaconsfield and he was a carpenter. They may have made a mistake with his second initial. Contact the Kimberley Africana Library with your query they should be able to help. Africana@solplaatje.org.za Regards Basil Brown From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Donna Mac Farlane Sent: 19 May 2011 09:30 AM To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com; south-africa-immigrants-british@rootsweb.com; south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] COETZEE / HAVENGA Hi I wonder if anyone can help on any of these lines: My uncle’s mothers grandfather was Pieter Benjamin COETZEE, born 2/6/1859 Cape of Good Hope (exact place not known) Died 27/6/1937 (death certificate number 19079/1937 held Dept. Interior, Pretoria) in Nazareth House, Kimberly. Buried 29/6/1973 ,West End Cemetery, Kimberly. His mother’s Grandmother was Martha Johanna HAVENGA, Born 9/1/1877, Cape of Good Hope (Don't know where) Died 20/12/1929 presumably in Kimberly but not sure—That is all the info we have. No marriage date, place etc. I do believe they always lived in Kimberly but don't know what they did there. If you can follow up on these lines I would be most grateful. Regards, Donna ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1509/3647 - Release Date: 05/19/11

Hi Nothing "happened" to it. It is still there. It is situated very close to the City Hall, immediately to the North, in Church Walk. See www.durban.gov.za/durban/discover/religion/churches/5748 for more information. Incidentally, it is not referred to as a Cathedral locally. It is St Pauls Anglican Church. If you google "St Pauls Durban" you will find more info. Hope that helps Ron Barnard > > My parents were married in St Paul's Catghederal, Durban around 1954. > > I can find very little about the Cathederal on the web. Is there anyone > out > there who has any information about the Cathederal and what happened to it > ? > > I would appreciate it very much > > Kind Regards > > Iain > > <email.iainwilson@gmail.com> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3644 - Release Date: 05/17/11 >

On 19 May 2011, at 6:48 AM, Iain Wilson wrote: > Hi All > > My parents were married in St Paul's Catghederal, Durban around 1954. > > I can find very little about the Cathederal on the web. Is there > anyone out > there who has any information about the Cathederal and what > happened to it ? > > I would appreciate it very much > > Kind Regards > > Iain > > <email.iainwilson@gmail.com> I don't know if you've googled it but it might help if you spelt Cathedral correctly! (Spelt two ways, both wrong.) Try Googling the name of the church: "Anglican Church of South Africa" or "Roman Catholic Church South Africa", as the case may be, using quotes to screen out irrelevant links. The Anglicans have an Archbishop (in Cape Town) and a large number of bishops (more than when I lived there 50 years ago) scattered across the several political Provinces of the country and beyond (for example, Cape Town has jurisdiction in Namibia, Angola and several other countries neighbouring South Africa. I haven't found one that gives all their names and there don't seem to be separate websites for the different dioceses. The Roman Catholic Church has four ecclesiastical Provinces (i.e. archdioceses) and a huge number of dioceses. There are e-mail addresses on both Churches' webpages so you could try e- mailing them with specific queries. Googling the (correct) name of the Cathedral, again with quotes, gives only four hits, the last dated 2009, so I guess the place is still around. I'm from Cape Town and have only ever visited Durban twice, with no occasion to seek out an Anglican Church, so I can't say from experience.

Hi Andrew Sorry for the incorrect spelling but It only on the email. Late at night and not paying attention. I will try your suggestions. Many thanks regards Iain On 19 May 2011 08:05, Andrew Rodger <rodgera@audioio.com> wrote: > On 19 May 2011, at 6:48 AM, Iain Wilson wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > My parents were married in St Paul's Catghederal, Durban around 1954. > > > > I can find very little about the Cathederal on the web. Is there > > anyone out > > there who has any information about the Cathederal and what > > happened to it ? > > > > I would appreciate it very much > > > > Kind Regards > > > > Iain > > > > <email.iainwilson@gmail.com> > > I don't know if you've googled it but it might help if you spelt > Cathedral correctly! (Spelt two ways, both wrong.) > > Try Googling the name of the church: "Anglican Church of South > Africa" or "Roman Catholic Church South Africa", as the case may be, > using quotes to screen out irrelevant links. The Anglicans have an > Archbishop (in Cape Town) and a large number of bishops (more than > when I lived there 50 years ago) scattered across the several > political Provinces of the country and beyond (for example, Cape Town > has jurisdiction in Namibia, Angola and several other countries > neighbouring South Africa. I haven't found one that gives all their > names and there don't seem to be separate websites for the different > dioceses. The Roman Catholic Church has four ecclesiastical > Provinces (i.e. archdioceses) and a huge number of dioceses. There > are e-mail addresses on both Churches' webpages so you could try e- > mailing them with specific queries. Googling the (correct) name of > the Cathedral, again with quotes, gives only four hits, the last > dated 2009, so I guess the place is still around. I'm from Cape Town > and have only ever visited Durban twice, with no occasion to seek out > an Anglican Church, so I can't say from experience. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Iain <email.iainwilson@gmail.com>

I have extracted this list from the diary, and checked it against the sparce information I already have. I have added context where I have it. I have not checked it against NAAIRS yet. (CMR) refers to the military officials in the Bizana Camp. About this time the name changed to SAMR. If anyone has any additional information about any of the people on this list I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you Veronica People mentioned in the 1914 Diary of Dr G.B. Thompson of Bizana Antel, R.W. Labour agent. Arbuthart [?](CMR?), Austin & Co, A.L. traders1913 Barnes (Missionary?) Bellamy, Bennett (CMR) Bishop, (CMR) Bismark (CMR), Booker, Sgt Maj (CMR) Bowhill, E Hotel prop Brain, Mrs (CMR?) Brodhead, Miss (Missionary) Burns, Mr of K[ing] W[illiam's] T[ow]n. A traveller of Cuthberts & a Baptist. Calloway(Anglican Bishop) Capt. Hale (CMR) Capt. Hole (CMR) Cavie, Edward Chisnall Clark, Rev S minister (missionary) Cochrane (CMR) Collier, Corp. (SAMR/CMR) Collins (CMR?) Coster, Mr William (Missionary at Ebeneser), Daly, S (Bizana trader), Davis (CMR?) Dawe, Garry Dennis, C.H. trader Dobie Engelbrecht, Lettie Ethne Larrington, Fisher, Bella Fisher, Muriel Fuller (trader?), Fynn, Mrs Mark Gall, Bishop of Mashonaland Gamble, Fred Garner, D.A. (Assistant Resident Magistrate) Graham Grant, Dr. Gunthier Hale, Blanche Halliwell Hamilton, Capt. Hargreaves, Pat Hathwell, Mrs (CMR?) Heale, Mrs. (wife of Capt. Heale, music teacher), Henderson from Makwantini Hully, Augusta Hully, Mary Hully, Mrs Charles Hully, Mrs (Midwife) Human, Leonard at Mpisi Jackson (Piano tuner) Jacobs, Mrs Jannerman, Jenkins, H.C. Jones, T labour agent Jordan., Daphne Joyce, J.W. Missionary - Impisi Kaiser Keeys, Mrs. (trader) Kennedy, Sheila Kvalsvig Leary, Rev. Leonard, traveling with Stone & Maas Leslie, J. A. Sheep inspector Leslie, Trooper Lewis, George (trader) Lewis, George (trader) Lundie, Marshall Maas, traveling with Stone & Leonard Marais (Lawyer) McClure, A trader -Entholzela McCord, Dr of Durban McLeod, Myrtle McLeod, .N. labour agent McLeod, A.B.G attorney McLeod,Madge Millard, Dr of Hershell Miller, F. J. trader Miller, Gowan Miller, Mary Montgomery of Port Shepstone, who says was in India P.W.D. & at Harrow & Edinburgh University. Mortimer, Miss (Missionary?) Murdoch, Dr of Klipdam Nicol,(Dr.) Burton, Kokstad Norman, W carpenter Norris, Miss (with. Von der Heydes), O'Donovan.(CMR), Petersen, Scott, John Short (trader) Shuttleworth (possibly working for Lewis) Sinclair (CMR?) Small (CMR?) Smith, Rev C & Miss Smith f from Imbambane Snook, E.J.L bookkeeper Stanford, Claud <sic> Stone, traveling with Maas & Leonard Stuart (CMR) Tait,(Dentist, Kokstad) Tatchell. Taylor, l & Mr. & Mrs. (Kokstad) Trollip, Percy, clerk Turner, Father , of St Cuthberts Underhill (CMR?) van Aswegen., Constable Van Wyk, John Von der Heyde, R.L. Von der Heyde; Irene Walsh, Capt at Aldershot Wardell, E Wiegardt (CMR?),

Hi I wonder if anyone can help on any of these lines: My uncle’s mothers grandfather was Pieter Benjamin COETZEE, born 2/6/1859 Cape of Good Hope (exact place not known) Died 27/6/1937 (death certificate number 19079/1937 held Dept. Interior, Pretoria) in Nazareth House, Kimberly. Buried 29/6/1973 ,West End Cemetery, Kimberly. His mother’s Grandmother was Martha Johanna HAVENGA, Born 9/1/1877, Cape of Good Hope (Don't know where) Died 20/12/1929 presumably in Kimberly but not sure—That is all the info we have. No marriage date, place etc. I do believe they always lived in Kimberly but don't know what they did there. If you can follow up on these lines I would be most grateful. Regards, Donna

Hi All My parents were married in St Paul's Catghederal, Durban around 1954. I can find very little about the Cathederal on the web. Is there anyone out there who has any information about the Cathederal and what happened to it ? I would appreciate it very much Kind Regards Iain <email.iainwilson@gmail.com>

I am looking for family ties of Welza Marcelle Puckle and Helen Jemima Margaret Puckle. I don't know if Puckle is a birth name or a married name. If anyone can help find ties with other Puckle family members in South Africa I would appreciate it very much. Also Helen Vida (Puckle) Nicholson, of Cape Town. She married Thomas Nicholson 29 Mar 1913. Thank you for any assistance, Jean in Arizona

I am looking for the name of Mr BRADFIELD who married Eliza Sophia ARNOT. She was the daughter of David ARNOT (Moodie settler) and Mary TURVEY (1820 settler). I know of only one nameless daughter born of this union, but would love more information on descendants etc. Joan

Hi All, I'm looking for information on Edward Morton aka Edward Glowinsky - b.c1922, Warsaw, Poland. Edward served with the RAF during WW2 as a Warrant Officer, service no 705579. He married Norma Jean Vearncombe (b.1928, Bridgwater, Somerset, UK) on 29/12/1946, in Bridgwater, Somerset. He changed his surname to Morton before he and Norma had a child in 1951, and they emigrated to South Africa possibly 1951/2. I believe they settled in or around Johannesburg. His wife returned to the UK with Gerda 1952/3 and they were divorced in 1953. Edward stayed in South Africa and married Patricia Devine, but they were divorced in 1960. I've found basic divorce info on NAAIRS but any further info on Edward Morton/Glowinsky gratefully received. Phil Curtis in Brittany, France

I am looking for a marriage and death of James HAMILTON. I have very little to go on. He was supposed to have married Elizabeth WILSON in 1895 in Johannesburg. Elizabeth came (back ? I have lost her between 1871 in Scotland and 1896 in NZ) to New Zealand and gave birth to a son in 1896. Not sure if James came as well. James dies in South Africa around 1908. He might have had some thing to do with mining. I have had a quick look on Ancestry24 but there are so many records for a James Hamilton plus I was struggling with the site. Any advice gratefully accept Annette

Wow! On 9 May 2011, at 12:22 PM, Keith Meintjes wrote: > Richard, > > I cannot answer your question of Delia. > > However, "Bibault" is given as an alternate spelling in SA > Genealogies. I > suppose it is a plausible French spelling. I did search NAAIRS on > all the > variations of the name I could think of, and did not find much of > anything. > > That form of the surname is used in the Huisgenoot article of 1928, > which > contributes to the Afrikaner mythology (where Detleef's son, Hendrik, > proclaims himself an Afrikaner). > > So, we have all the elements: An illegitimate child by a slave. > Marriage to > a weesmeisie (orphan girl) from the Berg China. A son who is the > first person > to proclaim himself an Afrikaner. A man who later becomes a > surgeon, and > purchases the slave mother of his illegitimate child, while still > fathering > children by his wife. > > Someone should write a novel. > > Keith Fascinating parallels with the story of Thomas Jefferson's family, which I first became aware of during a visit to Monticello, his home (depicted on the US 5c coin), near Charlottesville, VA, and explored further in a volume of his papers and Conor Cruise O'Brien's "The Long Affair", Sinclair-Stevenson, London 1996, ISBN 1 85619 637 2 (hardback) or 1 85619 628 3 (paperback). As I recall it, though, Jefferson at least waited until his wife was dead before taking up with her personal slave-lady's maid; but that slave was actually his wife's half-sister, fathered on one of his slaves by Jefferson's father-in-law. Their descendants separated into two camps, primarily on the basis of their skin colour: those who looked whiter married white and their families became "white", while those who were darker married black and their descendants identified as "black". This, too, could make quite a novel -- perhaps on similar lines to Dan Sleigh's "Islands"; but I reckon Bibault's story in the right hands could be better than either! Andrew Rodger rodgera@audioio.com