Patricia, Have you seen this one? http://www.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/ Johan. On 10/12/2011, Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> wrote: > Is there a list somewhere of the concentration camp and the numbers and > reasons for so many deaths? > > Patricia Frykberg > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Fellow Listers and List Administrators, Thus far I have held my peace, but enough is enough. In this last message Mr Greeff calls me a fool, in a previous message, off-list to another list member, he called me a "vuilgat". Can this type of abusive behaviour continually be tolerated from anyone on a rootsweb list? I know he is considered to be some kind of "hero" by some list members. Is this abusive behaviour, and his soap-box oratory tolerated because he is considered to be a "hero" by some? Johan.

Jean, I am missing your point. The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been discussed on this site. Also, I have not seen any message that blames currently living people for the atrocities of more than a century ago. It's history. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 10:43:23 PM EST From: Jean Tuckey <ronjeantuc@clear.net.nz> To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. Come on now everyone...enough is enough...it is not our fault the children died, or folk were treated badly otherwise one lingers over the Japanese bad treatment, the holocaust, the concentration camps much less the ill treatment in the Boer War there were bullies alive even then, as now, of all shades, colours and creeds etc etc ...who can apologise now....and why should one be answereable for the past. This is supposed to be a research site but like "Adele" I am close to unsubscribing as this subject has been done to death Jean Tuckey -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

http://www.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/ Beste wense Johann Paarl (gestig 1687) CLAASSEN(sedert 1720)/CRONJE/DYER/JAMES/POZYN/ROSE/VICTOR/WAGENAAR/WATERSON www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/921169/paarlbooks https://www.facebook.com/#!/johann.h.claassen We all grow up with the weight of history on us.  Our ancestors dwell in the attics of our brains as they do in the spiraling chains of knowledge hidden in every cell of our bodies.  ~ Shirley Abbott e-pos adres: johann.claassen@telkomsa.net -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat Frykberg Sent: 09 December 2011 10:34 PM To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. Is there a list somewhere of the concentration camp and the numbers and reasons for so many deaths? Patricia Frykberg

I am withdrawing from this discussion thread because I did not advocate co-operation between genealogical organizations (charitable and commercial), and support for all, and using the services of all, to be personally attacked and reviled by those who read the mail on the lists. I did not advocate co-operation to be called "hateful", nor to be stabbed in the back by people I regarded as friends. People have attacked me in letters to me personally and in letters to the lists. I am fed up of being attacked for trying to get people to work together, as though they were all part of one human race, one mankind. Here is my final word on the subject, a quotation from John Donne: "No man is an island, entire of itself every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls it tolls for thee." Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: Francois Greeff [mailto:goodgreeff@hiddencode.co.uk] Sent: 04 December 2011 19:14 To: 'south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com' Cc: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com; SAGenealogie@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project Well said, Trixie! I think that everyone can win if this new passenger list project devoted its efforts to enlarging the largest pool of information, instead of starting from scratch again. Besides that Ancersty24 has a great deal of other information too, and I have found their membership fee very cheap, considering the data they have given the Greeff clan (R395 generally, and half price for members of the Cape Town branch of GSSA). In other words, membership of GSSA is about R150 and membership of Ancestry24 is about R200 in the end. The cost of joining is thus more or less the same, but Ancestry24 has 59,578 Passenger records and 2,879 shipping records and one million transcribed and fully searchable records overall, and access to 8 million South African names. Synergy is a word that describes how two plus two can make six. Synergy is part of the logic behind mergers and acquisitions in corporate governance. When two organizations join forces and work together instead of in competition to each other there are massive savings: One head office, one set of accountants and auditors, one web site, mutually supporting advertising instead of adverts that cancel each other out, better use of transport, and united databases, as well as increased benefits to both customer sets. Jan Smuts first thought up the philosophy of Holism, and he said that "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts". That is easy to understand when you have a pile of spare parts, as opposed to all the same parts assembled to make a useful, working motor car. The whole assembled car is worth far more than the sum of its parts. I sincerely hope that GISA is about to enter into a new phase of co-operation with GSSA and other organizations. I urge their managements to consider the financial and practical advantages of synergy. The leaders in South African genealogy should also consider that Naspers is fully aware of it that the days of paper newspapers are over. The newspapers that have not shifted into electronic media are going insolvent. (See: http://newspaperdeathwatch.com/) The survivors are investing heavily in digital media: the internet, Pay TV, and all sorts of online activities. See http://www.naspers.com/company-structure.php There is no doubt that genealogy is the fastest growing internet hobby in the world, and these financial giants are investing billions of Dollars in genealogy. Even governments see genealogy as a source of big revenue. The British Government is making a fortune from world wide internet sales because you can order official birth, marriage and death certificates for events registered in England and Wales from the General Register Office (GRO) for just £9.25. Each. Per certificate. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevent s/Birthmarriageanddeathcertificates/dg_175628 Ancestry24 is investing a fortune in South African genealogy, and the leaders of all genealogy groups should get together and meet with the finance directors behind Ancestry24. It makes sense for Ancestry24 to offer discounts to members of GSSA, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to host all the GSSA web sites free of charge, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to participate in all GSSA projects. There is already too much senseless duplication in the passenger lists, and the transcription of voters rolls, and in transcription of paper records to digital records. In the latter Ancestry24 is way ahead of all the other players put together, so why not work together to find ways in which GSSA members can benefit from greater co-operation? Regards, Francois -----Original Message----- From: Trixie [mailto:verneukpan@gmail.com] Sent: 04 December 2011 05:41 To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project This looks like the same passenger lists that Ancestry24 have done years ago - does anybody communicate with one another to see whether they are not dulicating work already done? Trixie On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Sue Mackay <sue@sausalito.demon.co.uk>wrote: > The first phase of its new Passenger List Project has gone live on the > web site of the eGGSA Branch of the Genealogical Society of South > Africa. The transcribing is being done by volunteers, members of the > eGGSA, Natal Midland and Western Cape branches of the GSSA: > > http://www.eggsa.org/arrivals/eGGSA%20Passenger%20Project.html > > > Posted on behalf of Richard Ball > www.eggsa.org > > Sue >

Dear Mr Wynne, I fully agree with your view that discussion should not degenerate to the level of personal attacks:- nor to the level of paranoia where people imagine that they are being attacked. Please see the original letter and accept that I, Francois Greeff, was simply advocating greater co-operation between genealogists and genealogical organizations, both charitable and commercial. Please see my original letter to ZA-EC on 04/12/2011, at 21:14. Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: John Wynne [mailto:jw_email2004-clwyd@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 09 December 2011 20:33 To: south-africa@rootsweb.com; south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] "Getting something for free" Grow up, and take this off-line. [The letter above was in response to a letter from Johan Dorey-Venter, and NOT in response to the original causal letters below.] -----Original Message----- From: Francois Greeff [mailto:goodgreeff@hiddencode.co.uk] Sent: 04 December 2011 19:14 To: 'south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com' Cc: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com; SAGenealogie@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project Well said, Trixie! I think that everyone can win if this new passenger list project devoted its efforts to enlarging the largest pool of information, instead of starting from scratch again. Besides that Ancersty24 has a great deal of other information too, and I have found their membership fee very cheap, considering the data they have given the Greeff clan (R395 generally, and half price for members of the Cape Town branch of GSSA). In other words, membership of GSSA is about R150 and membership of Ancestry24 is about R200 in the end. The cost of joining is thus more or less the same, but Ancestry24 has 59,578 Passenger records and 2,879 shipping records and one million transcribed and fully searchable records overall, and access to 8 million South African names. Synergy is a word that describes how two plus two can make six. Synergy is part of the logic behind mergers and acquisitions in corporate governance. When two organizations join forces and work together instead of in competition to each other there are massive savings: One head office, one set of accountants and auditors, one web site, mutually supporting advertising instead of adverts that cancel each other out, better use of transport, and united databases, as well as increased benefits to both customer sets. Jan Smuts first thought up the philosophy of Holism, and he said that "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts". That is easy to understand when you have a pile of spare parts, as opposed to all the same parts assembled to make a useful, working motor car. The whole assembled car is worth far more than the sum of its parts. I sincerely hope that GISA is about to enter into a new phase of co-operation with GSSA and other organizations. I urge their managements to consider the financial and practical advantages of synergy. The leaders in South African genealogy should also consider that Naspers is fully aware of it that the days of paper newspapers are over. The newspapers that have not shifted into electronic media are going insolvent. (See: http://newspaperdeathwatch.com/) The survivors are investing heavily in digital media: the internet, Pay TV, and all sorts of online activities. See http://www.naspers.com/company-structure.php There is no doubt that genealogy is the fastest growing internet hobby in the world, and these financial giants are investing billions of Dollars in genealogy. Even governments see genealogy as a source of big revenue. The British Government is making a fortune from world wide internet sales because you can order official birth, marriage and death certificates for events registered in England and Wales from the General Register Office (GRO) for just £9.25. Each. Per certificate. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevent s/Birthmarriageanddeathcertificates/dg_175628 Ancestry24 is investing a fortune in South African genealogy, and the leaders of all genealogy groups should get together and meet with the finance directors behind Ancestry24. It makes sense for Ancestry24 to offer discounts to members of GSSA, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to host all the GSSA web sites free of charge, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to participate in all GSSA projects. There is already too much senseless duplication in the passenger lists, and the transcription of voters rolls, and in transcription of paper records to digital records. In the latter Ancestry24 is way ahead of all the other players put together, so why not work together to find ways in which GSSA members can benefit from greater co-operation? Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: Trixie [mailto:verneukpan@gmail.com] Sent: 04 December 2011 05:41 To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project This looks like the same passenger lists that Ancestry24 have done years ago - does anybody communicate with one another to see whether they are not dulicating work already done? Trixie On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Sue Mackay <sue@sausalito.demon.co.uk>wrote: > The first phase of its new Passenger List Project has gone live on the > web site of the eGGSA Branch of the Genealogical Society of South > Africa. The transcribing is being done by volunteers, members of the > eGGSA, Natal Midland and Western Cape branches of the GSSA: > > http://www.eggsa.org/arrivals/eGGSA%20Passenger%20Project.html > > > Posted on behalf of Richard Ball > www.eggsa.org > > Sue >

I honestly thought this mailing list was for helping each other out with finding information on our ancestors or the ancestors of others. Seriously though, and I mean this with all due respect, get over yourselves and get back to the point of this mailing list. Please, for my sake and the sake of the others subscribers to this mailing list, take this fight and debate offline. Kind regards, Matthew Fritz On 09 Dec 2011, at 8:27 PM, "B J Venter" <twyfelpoort@gmail.com> wrote: > Francois, > > Your very apt description of yourself > > "And you waste your time picking on an inconsequential little idiot like me" > > prompted me to add all e-mails from you to my black list. > > Your ravings contribute anything to the science of genealogy. > > To Richard Ball who is one of the unsung heroes of Genealogy, I would like > to say BRAVO! > > > Barend Venter > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Grow up, and take this off-line. ----- Original Message ----- > From: Johan Dorey-Venter <doreyventer@gmail.com> > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com; south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com > Cc: > Sent: Friday, 9 December 2011, 20:04 > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] "Getting something for free" > > Fellow Listers and List Administrators, > > Thus far I have held my peace, but enough is enough. > > In this last message Mr Greeff calls me a fool, in a previous message, > off-list to another list member, he called me a "vuilgat". > > Can this type of abusive behaviour continually be tolerated from > anyone on a rootsweb list? > > I know he is considered to be some kind of "hero" by some list > members. Is this abusive behaviour, and his soap-box oratory tolerated > because he is considered to be a "hero" by some? > > Johan. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Francois, Your very apt description of yourself "And you waste your time picking on an inconsequential little idiot like me" prompted me to add all e-mails from you to my black list. Your ravings contribute anything to the science of genealogy. To Richard Ball who is one of the unsung heroes of Genealogy, I would like to say BRAVO! Barend Venter

Dear Matthew, This discussion is a defence of YOUR right to suggest to another member of the list that they consult page 26 of volume two of the SAG series, which contains the information they need. You may suggest that someone buy Janet Melville's excellent book on the van der Merwe clan. You do have the right to point out to others that those books give very good value for money. You may and should recommend useful sources to other members, even if they are services that must be paid for. I very strongly recommend that South African genealogists PAY TO JOIN the Genealogical Society of South Africa (GSSA) and its electronic branch (eGSSA). I also recommend paying for other genealogical sites, books, CDs, data, photos, and services because they help you to move forward quickly and easily. Please do not tell me that I have 200 "free minutes" on my phone. They are prepaid minutes, and I paid for them. The phone companies should not use my money to make themselves look good. Equally, GSSA and eGSSA should not use our annual subscription fee money to make themselves look good because they publish "FREE INFORMATION" on their web sites. Free information that they would not be able to publish without our money, says Richard Ball. How is that free, if we have to pay for it? Above all, do not burn Galileo's books and research papers and put him in house arrest because he dares to express a view that the Holy Roman Catholic church disagrees with. Equally, do not silence Francois Greeff because he dares to express an opinion that Hendrik Louw and Richard Ball disagree with. Freedom of speech is one of the cornerstones of progress. My original argument was that GSSA, eGSSA and Ancestry24 should work together instead of in opposition to each other. Now they tell me that I am dividing the genealogical community because I suggest co-operation. Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Fritz [mailto:matthew@fritzfamily.co.za] Sent: 09 December 2011 18:45 To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Cc: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] "Getting something for free" I honestly thought this mailing list was for helping each other out with finding information on our ancestors or the ancestors of others. Seriously though, and I mean this with all due respect, get over yourselves and get back to the point of this mailing list. Please, for my sake and the sake of the others subscribers to this mailing list, take this fight and debate offline. Kind regards, Matthew Fritz On 09 Dec 2011, at 8:27 PM, "B J Venter" <twyfelpoort@gmail.com> wrote: > Francois, > > Your very apt description of yourself > > "And you waste your time picking on an inconsequential little idiot like me" > > prompted me to add all e-mails from you to my black list. > > Your ravings contribute anything to the science of genealogy. > > To Richard Ball who is one of the unsung heroes of Genealogy, I would like > to say BRAVO! > > > Barend Venter > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4669 - Release Date: 12/09/11

Let us examine logic: What is free? Richard Ball writes: "Your selective quotes from the two web sites, conveniently ignored, the large amount of data and information on those web sites which is freely available to all researchers, members or not, WITHOUT PAYMENT OF ANY KIND, the society does provide value for money." One assumes that he meant to say: "Your selective quotes from the two web sites conveniently ignored the large amount of data and information on those web sites, which is freely available to all researchers, members or not, WITHOUT PAYMENT OF ANY KIND. The society does provide value for money." Richard Ball also says: "If your aim as outlined in your plug for your favoured organisation is achieved, that is subscriptions to the GSSA to cease and be transferred to the organisation that you aim to promote, the only result would be that the two web sites http://www.genza.org.za and http://www.eggsa.org would cease to exist and the information they now provide be lost to all." One assumes that he meant to say: "If your aim, as outlined in your plug for your favoured organisation, is achieved (that is: subscriptions to the GSSA to cease and be transferred to the organisation that you [delete "aim to"] promote), the only result would be that the two web sites, http://www.genza.org.za and http://www.eggsa.org, would cease to exist and the information they now provide would be lost to all." The meaning of the above is: "If GSSA and eGSSA lost their income they would cease to exist, and cease to provide information". The logic is contradictory. 1a) the websites do make infromation available 1b) WITHOUT PAYMENT OF ANY KIND 2a) the websites would not be able to make the same information available 2b) without payment in the form of membership fees. NEW SUBJECT. If one says that the ocean contains more water than the swimming pool: 1. it is not an attack on the swimming pool 2. it does not mean that one should stop using the swimming pool 3. that the pool is bad and that one hates the swimming pool 4. that everyone should stop paying to use the swimming pool and pay to use the ocean instead. The same applies if one says that Ancestry24 has more data and information than GSSA and eGSSA. Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: Richard Ball [mailto:richardonrootsweb@ballfamilyrecords.co.uk] Sent: 09 December 2011 12:15 To: Francois Greeff Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] "Getting something for free" Dear Francois Greeff, I was sorry to see that, in your long puff to boost subscriptions to one particular South African Genealogical organisation, which you sent to a number of the Rootsweb Mailing lists, you felt it necessary and desirable to denigrate and attempt to rubbish the Genealogical Society of South Africa (GSSA) and its eGGSA branch. It seems to me a pity that there is so much jealousy and exclusiveness within the South African genealogical community, of which your message is but one example, but this sort of thing does seem to obtain in most academic disciplines, I am sorry to say. Despite your negative criticism the Genealogical Society of South Africa and its branches, will, however, continue to provide what they can to promote and aid genealogical study in South Africa. Your selective quotes from the two web sites, conveniently ignored, the large amount of data and information on those web sites which is freely available to all researchers, members or not, without payment of any kind, the society does provide value for money. You wrote: TO SUM UP, FOR ABOUT R150 GSSA OFFERS MEMBERSHIP, FAMILIA AND ONE BRANCH JOURNAL OR NEWSLETTER AND YOU CAN BUY BOOKS AND CDS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND ACCESS TO THE OTHER NEWSLETTERS AND JOURNALS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND PHOTOS OF DOCUMENTS IN SOME ARCHIVES, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND ACCESS TO THE 1984 VOTERS' ROLL, IF YOU PAID EXTRA.: but neglected to mention among the above the free Funeral Programs and Church Photographs, originally collected by the SAGenealogie email group and now maintained and daily increased by the GSSA on its web site: http://www.genza.org.za/biblio/ http://www.genza.org.za/bonus/main.php?g2_itemId=12 And as to eGGSA you wrote: eGSSA OFFERS VARIOUS UTTERLY VALUABLE TRANSCRIPTIONS, IMAGES OF GRAVESTONES ETC, BUT NOTHING ON THE SCALE OF ANCESTRY24. and the smaller scale of its provision presumably justifies your suggestion that people cease to enrol as members? If your aim as outlined in your plug for your favoured organisation is achieved, that is subscriptions to the GSSA to cease and be transferred to the organisation that you aim to promote, the only result would be that the two web sites http://www.genza.org.za and http://www.eggsa.org would cease to exist and the information they now provide be lost to all. I quote from the FAQ on membership: http://www.eggsa.org/FAQ-membership.htm#goodies your annual subscription to eGGSA will help to fund the web site which makes available a huge collection of genealogical materials freely available to all. Yours, Richard Ball Chair of the eGGSA branch of the GSSA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4669 - Release Date: 12/09/11

Pat, The immediate causes of the deaths are very simple - infectious diseases. The reasons are rooted in the brutality of the British. I think the current euphemism is "collateral damage". Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 03:51:31 PM EST From: Johan Dorey-Venter <doreyventer@gmail.com> To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. Patricia, Have you seen this one? http://www.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/ Johan. On 10/12/2011, Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> wrote: > Is there a list somewhere of the concentration camp and the numbers and > reasons for so many deaths? > > Patricia Frykberg > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Richard, At no point have I ever suggested or said that people should not subscribe to GSSA or to eGSSA, nor that they "cease to enrol as members", so kindly get your facts straight, and see to it that they remain unimpaired by your emotions. My own subscription is paid up. Lucas paid it for me when I did not have the money, but it was paid. Secondly, my statements about Ancestry24.co.za should be read in context. Trixie mentioned that GSSA is starting a passenger list when Ancestry24 compiled one "years ago". I replied in support, saying that holism and co-operation in South African Genealocical organization is sorely needed. (See original letter below) Some fool attacked me and said that I am so lucky to be able to pay for Ancestry24 in Pounds, while he is a poor pensioner, for whom R395 is a month's worth of food, which is why he prefers to stick with "FREE" services. I objected to his "poor me, lucky you" attitude and took the trouble to point out that GSSA is NOT a free service, but costs R150 pa (R180, someone said). My point was that nothing is free, and that R395 for Ancestry24 gave one more than ten times the information that GSSA did for R150. I also described what poor really is, in contrast to griping about not being able to afford luxuries - our hobbies and pastimes, computers, telephones, broadband, electricity, vaccinations, literacy, etc. Immediately after these comparisons were launched on the email lists Ancestry24 offered a special offer, reducing the cost of membership from R395 to R199 for a Christmas Special Offer. More reason to subscribe immediately. Act now! Go to http://ancestry24.com/upgrade-options/ Hurry before the offer ends! Francois Greeff says it is a good offer that will benefit most genealogists, particularly those who do one name studies. I am also an avid supporter of other paid web sites and software, such as Ancestry.com, which gives one a vast amount of American data; and Ancestry.co.uk, which gives access to millions of British records; and Legacy; and Family Tree Maker; and eSAGI; and SAG; and Tanap's products; and the Drakensteinse Erfenis; all genealogical books and web sites; Cyndi's list; Dennis Pretorius' shop; and GSSA and its branches, web sites, shops and various journals - to which I have consistently contributed over many years. During the past six months I contributed more than 60,000 photographs of genealogical documents to a South African genealogical project, and in order to achieve that I slept on the floor next to my computer at night, while it and I ran night and day on the project. I defy every bastard who says that I am anti anything in South African genealogy, with the exception of the "Shoe Box Mentality". I strongly oppose the Shoe Box Mentality, which describes a situation in which people take, take, take and do not give information to others, since they hide their 'secret' genealogy in a shoe box under the bed. It is petty and mean. I am surprised that you and Hendrik Louw can assume that I am anti-GSSA when both of you have seen my consistent input and support over several years. Hendrik Louw actually wrote to me to ask why I am so "hateful" towards GSSA. "Haatdraend" was the word he used. The pair of you make me think of my neighbour's wife, who makes his life a misery with her insane jealousy. She repeatedly attacks him because he loves his (very elderly) mother and phones her and helps her with the chores she can no longer manage. It is folly for a wife to be jealous of her husband's mother, siblings and cousins. These deeply caring relationships do not mean that he hates his wife. In the same way it is petty in the extreme when you and Hendrik Louw accuse me of infidelity when I point out that one of the best methods of solving problems, globally, is to throw money at the problem. Another good way is to get the help of others in a team effort. Brick walls crumble when one uses the services of professional genealogical researchers (as I know you do) and the services of the commercial genealogical data giants on the internet. If you, Richard, want to cast the first stone at me you must first stop using professional genealogists outside of eGSSA - and that is a very stupid requirement, isn't it? Especially since you, Richard Ball, use those services BECAUSE they are better than GSSA and eGSSA services. I do not say that you are disloyal to GSSA or eGSSA. I am not that stupid. You and I have worked together to clarify relationships in the family of Matthias Greeff and his wife, Susanna Claassen. http://www.eggsa.org/articles.htm. Does eGSSA hate you for that? I still say that one should spend money on your garden (mowing, sowing and growing) AND on your other pursuits and interests, including genealogy. Nothing is free - if you did not pay for directly, you paid indirectly through higher goods prices on account of advertising in genealogy, or taxes for archives. I expect the officers and executives of GSSA and eGSSA to react intellectually instead of emotionally. I also expect the officers and executives of GSSA and eGSSA to display an attitude of friendship and co-operation to ALL other genealogical organizations, instead of viewing them as competitors and enemies. I suggest that eGSSA create a special page on its web site to point out to members the enormous advantages of commercial services and web sites. I have also argued for some time that GISA or GSSA should set standards for professional genealogists and maintain a register of properly educated and qualified genealogical researchers. At present any clown can call himself a professional genealogist and fleece the public. I dare you and Hendrik Louw to organize a "Conference for Effective Co-operation" for GISA, GSSA, eGSSA, Ancestry24, the LDS, Cape Town Genealogical Society, the Universities that teach genealogy, and similar organizations. As far as I see GSSA and eGSSA cannot even agree to have one webmaster and one web site (www.eggsa.org and www.genza.org.za), but duplicate effort and cost. I also suspect that the tail is wagging the dog, since big eGSSA is a member of little GSSA. Members must join GSSA and one local branch, while it makes far more sense to join one local branch and eGSSA. In other words, we should have a branch at which we meet in person and a head office at which we meet online. All journals should be emailed to all members as a standard part of membership, but this does not happen because the branches bicker about money and memberships instead of working together. Your emotional reactions to each other and genealogical issues prevent you from organizing the structure of GSSA and eGSSA and branches rationally, in a manner that becomes the electronic age of the 21st century. And you waste your time picking on an inconsequential little idiot like me. Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: Richard Ball [mailto:richardonrootsweb@ballfamilyrecords.co.uk] Sent: 09 December 2011 12:15 To: Francois Greeff Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] "Getting something for free" Dear Francois Greeff, I was sorry to see that, in your long puff to boost subscriptions to one particular South African Genealogical organisation, which you sent to a number of the Rootsweb Mailing lists, you felt it necessary and desirable to denigrate and attempt to rubbish the Genealogical Society of South Africa (GSSA) and its eGGSA branch. It seems to me a pity that there is so much jealousy and exclusiveness within the South African genealogical community, of which your message is but one example, but this sort of thing does seem to obtain in most academic disciplines, I am sorry to say. Despite your negative criticism the Genealogical Society of South Africa and its branches, will, however, continue to provide what they can to promote and aid genealogical study in South Africa. Your selective quotes from the two web sites, conveniently ignored, the large amount of data and information on those web sites which is freely available to all researchers, members or not, without payment of any kind, the society does provide value for money. You wrote: TO SUM UP, FOR ABOUT R150 GSSA OFFERS MEMBERSHIP, FAMILIA AND ONE BRANCH JOURNAL OR NEWSLETTER AND YOU CAN BUY BOOKS AND CDS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND ACCESS TO THE OTHER NEWSLETTERS AND JOURNALS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND PHOTOS OF DOCUMENTS IN SOME ARCHIVES, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND ACCESS TO THE 1984 VOTERS’ ROLL, IF YOU PAID EXTRA.: but neglected to mention among the above the free Funeral Programs and Church Photographs, originally collected by the SAGenealogie email group and now maintained and daily increased by the GSSA on its web site: http://www.genza.org.za/biblio/ http://www.genza.org.za/bonus/main.php?g2_itemId=12 And as to eGGSA you wrote: eGSSA OFFERS VARIOUS UTTERLY VALUABLE TRANSCRIPTIONS, IMAGES OF GRAVESTONES ETC, BUT NOTHING ON THE SCALE OF ANCESTRY24. and the smaller scale of its provision presumably justifies your suggestion that people cease to enrol as members? If your aim as outlined in your plug for your favoured organisation is achieved, that is subscriptions to the GSSA to cease and be transferred to the organisation that you aim to promote, the only result would be that the two web sites http://www.genza.org.za and http://www.eggsa.org would cease to exist and the information they now provide be lost to all. I quote from the FAQ on membership: http://www.eggsa.org/FAQ-membership.htm#goodies your annual subscription to eGGSA will help to fund the web site which makes available a huge collection of genealogical materials freely available to all. Yours, Richard Ball Chair of the eGGSA branch of the GSSA -----Original Message----- From: Francois Greeff [mailto:goodgreeff@hiddencode.co.uk] Sent: 04 December 2011 19:14 To: 'south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com' Cc: SOUTH-AFRICA-L@rootsweb.com; SAGenealogie@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project Well said, Trixie! I think that everyone can win if this new passenger list project devoted its efforts to enlarging the largest pool of information, instead of starting from scratch again. Besides that Ancersty24 has a great deal of other information too, and I have found their membership fee very cheap, considering the data they have given the Greeff clan (R395 generally, and half price for members of the Cape Town branch of GSSA). In other words, membership of GSSA is about R150 and membership of Ancestry24 is about R200 in the end. The cost of joining is thus more or less the same, but Ancestry24 has 59,578 Passenger records and 2,879 shipping records and one million transcribed and fully searchable records overall, and access to 8 million South African names. Synergy is a word that describes how two plus two can make six. Synergy is part of the logic behind mergers and acquisitions in corporate governance. When two organizations join forces and work together instead of in competition to each other there are massive savings: One head office, one set of accountants and auditors, one web site, mutually supporting advertising instead of adverts that cancel each other out, better use of transport, and united databases, as well as increased benefits to both customer sets. Jan Smuts first thought up the philosophy of Holism, and he said that "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts". That is easy to understand when you have a pile of spare parts, as opposed to all the same parts assembled to make a useful, working motor car. The whole assembled car is worth far more than the sum of its parts. I sincerely hope that GISA is about to enter into a new phase of co-operation with GSSA and other organizations. I urge their managements to consider the financial and practical advantages of synergy. The leaders in South African genealogy should also consider that Naspers is fully aware of it that the days of paper newspapers are over. The newspapers that have not shifted into electronic media are going insolvent. (See: http://newspaperdeathwatch.com/) The survivors are investing heavily in digital media: the internet, Pay TV, and all sorts of online activities. See http://www.naspers.com/company-structure.php There is no doubt that genealogy is the fastest growing internet hobby in the world, and these financial giants are investing billions of Dollars in genealogy. Even governments see genealogy as a source of big revenue. The British Government is making a fortune from world wide internet sales because you can order official birth, marriage and death certificates for events registered in England and Wales from the General Register Office (GRO) for just £9.25. Each. Per certificate. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevent s/Birthmarriageanddeathcertificates/dg_175628 Ancestry24 is investing a fortune in South African genealogy, and the leaders of all genealogy groups should get together and meet with the finance directors behind Ancestry24. It makes sense for Ancestry24 to offer discounts to members of GSSA, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to host all the GSSA web sites free of charge, and it makes sense for Ancestry24 to participate in all GSSA projects. There is already too much senseless duplication in the passenger lists, and the transcription of voters rolls, and in transcription of paper records to digital records. In the latter Ancestry24 is way ahead of all the other players put together, so why not work together to find ways in which GSSA members can benefit from greater co-operation? Regards, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info -----Original Message----- From: Trixie [mailto:verneukpan@gmail.com] Sent: 04 December 2011 05:41 To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project This looks like the same passenger lists that Ancestry24 have done years ago - does anybody communicate with one another to see whether they are not dulicating work already done? Trixie On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Sue Mackay <sue@sausalito.demon.co.uk>wrote: > The first phase of its new Passenger List Project has gone live on the > web site of the eGGSA Branch of the Genealogical Society of South > Africa. The transcribing is being done by volunteers, members of the > eGGSA, Natal Midland and Western Cape branches of the GSSA: > > http://www.eggsa.org/arrivals/eGGSA%20Passenger%20Project.html > > > Posted on behalf of Richard Ball > www.eggsa.org > > Sue >

Hi Denise, I'm sorry I can' help with your question, but just as a matter of interest, my grandfather, Harry Wild, was on the same ship - on his way to England to join the RNAS. I have a copy of the record - would you like to have it? Cheers, Carol On 30 November 2011 22:22, Ian Thirlwell <thirlwell.it@ntlworld.com> wrote: > findmypast.co.uk has the outgoing passenger lists from the UK. There are a > few May passengers to South Africa between 1911 and 1916 but no full names > are given. > Ian Thirlwell > > -----Original Message----- > From: Denise Whitehead > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:39 AM > To: SOUTH-AFRICA@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Frederick James May > > Dear list members > Can anyone please tell me where I can find information on when and  how > Frederick James May arrived in South Africa from the UK. He was still living > in Chelsea England in 1911. > He married Elsie Sturdy in Johannesburg in 1915 and returned to England on > The Saxon in 1916. He had TB and died on his return to England in 1917. > thanks for all your help > Dee Whitehead > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Francois Greeff, I was sorry to see that, in your long puff to boost subscriptions to one particular South African Genealogical organisation, which you sent to a number of the Rootsweb Mailing lists, you felt it necessary and desirable to denigrate and attempt to rubbish the Genealogical Society of South Africa (GSSA) and its eGGSA branch. It seems to me a pity that there is so much jealousy and exclusiveness within the South African genealogical community, of which your message is but one example, but this sort of thing does seem to obtain in most academic disciplines, I am sorry to say. Despite your negative criticism the Genealogical Society of South Africa and its branches, will, however, continue to provide what they can to promote and aid genealogical study in South Africa. Your selective quotes from the two web sites, conveniently ignored, the large amount of data and information on those web sites which is freely available to all researchers, members or not, without payment of any kind, the society does provide value for money. You wrote: TO SUM UP, FOR ABOUT R150 GSSA OFFERS MEMBERSHIP, FAMILIA AND ONE BRANCH JOURNAL OR NEWSLETTER AND YOU CAN BUY BOOKS AND CDS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND ACCESS TO THE OTHER NEWSLETTERS AND JOURNALS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND PHOTOS OF DOCUMENTS IN SOME ARCHIVES, IF YOU PAY EXTRA AND ACCESS TO THE 1984 VOTERS’ ROLL, IF YOU PAID EXTRA.: but neglected to mention among the above the free Funeral Programs and Church Photographs, originally collected by the SAGenealogie email group and now maintained and daily increased by the GSSA on its web site: http://www.genza.org.za/biblio/ http://www.genza.org.za/bonus/main.php?g2_itemId=12 And as to eGGSA you wrote: eGSSA OFFERS VARIOUS UTTERLY VALUABLE TRANSCRIPTIONS, IMAGES OF GRAVESTONES ETC, BUT NOTHING ON THE SCALE OF ANCESTRY24. and the smaller scale of its provision presumably justifies your suggestion that people cease to enrol as members? If your aim as outlined in your plug for your favoured organisation is achieved, that is subscriptions to the GSSA to cease and be transferred to the organisation that you aim to promote, the only result would be that the two web sites http://www.genza.org.za and http://www.eggsa.org would cease to exist and the information they now provide be lost to all. I quote from the FAQ on membership: http://www.eggsa.org/FAQ-membership.htm#goodies your annual subscription to eGGSA will help to fund the web site which makes available a huge collection of genealogical materials freely available to all. Yours, Richard Ball Chair of the eGGSA branch of the GSSA

Hello I have been asked to pass on that the Pretoria Archives will be closed tomorrow Friday 9 Dec 2011 for their Christmas party, again next Friday 16th Dec public holiday and will close for Christmas on Thursday 22 Dec until reopening on 2nd Jan 2012. I would advise that you contact the Archives before visiting them around these dates to confirm that the reading room is available. Best wishes Paxie

Hi All   Obituary of Marcus Van den BERG   Marcus Van den BERG was born at Groningen in Holland on the 15th January 1846. Being of Jewish parentage he was intended for, and educated to become a Rabbi, but having come under the influence of a Missionary of the Presbyterian Church he was convinced of the truth of the Christian faith, and at great personal sacrifice he abandoned Judaism, embraced Christianity and was received by baptism into the Presbyterian Church at Norwood in England. He was then 27 years of age.   He arrived in South Africa in 1873 and for some time laboured in connection with a Railway Mission. A Study of Methodist Literature and Doctrine led him eventually to join the Wesleyan Methodist Church. After a term of service as Catechist, at McGregor, in the Robertson Circuit, he was admitted in 1880 a Probationer for the Wesleyan Ministry, and received into Full Connexion at the Conference of 1883.   The whole of his active Ministry was spent in the Coloured Mission Circuits in the Cape District. During his 13 years in which he travelled in the Cape Town and Mowbray Circuit the scattered Coloured congregations in Cape Town were united in the Buitekant Street Church and the work consolidated and extended. Previous to that he had charge of the Robertson Circuit and afterwards was Superintendent of the Somerset West and Strand Circuit for a period of four years. At the Conference of 1900 he became a Supernumerary and retired to Roodepoort in the Transvaal, where, with undiminished zeal, he laboured  as opportunity offered, chiefly among the Coloured and Native population, with greatacceptance. During 1907 his health began to fail. Early in the present year it became necessary for him to undergo an operation, an on the 31st of January he passed away in Johannesburg Hospital.  He was devotedly attached to the doctrines and discipline of the Weslyan Methodist Church - a man of studios habits and possessed with a burning zeal for the salvation of souls. He laboured with untiring energy, was a master of the Dutch language (his mother tongue), had considerable linguistic skill, and his pulpit ministrations were of a high order. He was a good man, of reverent and pouis spirit and brotherly affection, and he cheerfully suffered the loss of much for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus Christ his Lord. Transcribed from Minutes of Wesleyan Methodist Conference 1908 Pages 6 & 7 Darryl Allwright P O Box 166 Grahamstown South Africa 6140 Tel: 046-622-8134 Cell: 076-091-2764 Fax: 086-513-3779

-----Original Message----- From: Tessa King [mailto:tessking@mweb.co.za] Sent: 06 December 2011 10:27 To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] "Getting something for free" Hi All Becky I hope I am not overstepping the line here, but since we are on this topic I will mention it. Ancestry24 has a special on at the moment - 50% off. Both Ancestry24 and GSSA and eGGSA are very valuable tools and so many have given of their time, money and resources to make these sites successful. Websites cost money and to keep them running smoothly requires special skills that have to be paid for and don't come cheap and this comes out of the subscriptions we pay. You can donate transcripts to Ancestry24 and request that these not be included in the subscribers section. Right now it will cost you R16 per month to access their records. All those who go out and do cemetery readings have to travel to these various cemeteries and spend hours laboriously photographing and transcribing the info so that we can benefit. I have not heard one of these people complain about how much it has cost them to do this on behalf of the genealogical community. Petrol costs, time costs, uploading to the website costs in terms of bandwidth used (we don't all have the luxury of ADSL or unlimited bandwidth), camera equipment to photograph these graves also cost money. But this group of people has done it all willingly. There are so many who have given and given of their time doing transcripts and I won't mention names for fear of leaving someone off the list. I think we all know who they are. If it weren't for all the transcribers and those who post their Death notices and photo's of gravestones where would we be? Yes this is giving something to places like Ancestry24 and GSSA because they have the resources to put it out there on the internet which we don't have. In many instances there are transcribers who are paid and resources for which Ancestry24 has to pay in order to publish them on their sites like the Government Gazettes where the latest estates are listed. This all costs money. There aren't many sites that are free, whether it is here in SA or overseas, so if we want to pursue our hobby and build our trees it is going to cost us a bit of money. Sadly, so many expect others to just give and give and do the work for them without thinking of the cost involved in supplying that info, whether it be a website or a fellow lister. I too am a pensioner and have had to trim my budget and although it may be frustrating when you can't afford something you just get on with life and see what you can do to help others. Thanks Becky for allowing us the freedom to respond to this topic. You are the best! Take care Tessa -----Original Message----- From: Johan Dorey-Venter Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:53 AM To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] "Getting something for free" Hi Francois, You have convinced me. I have not yet paid the GSSA sub, which I am now cancelling. By the way, eGGSA membership is now R180, not R150. Johan. On 05/12/2011, Francois Greeff <goodgreeff@hiddencode.co.uk> wrote: > Dear Johan, > > You write: "From my Christmas bonus, I could at least treat myself to a > GSSA > membership. With the result that at least I am grateful for getting > something for free!" > > > > Please tell me exactly what it is that you get "for free", when you > actually > PAY to enjoy the limited advantages of GSSA membership. My point is that > the > ratio of membership fees is 150 to 400, or 15 to 40, or 3 to 8. In other > words membership of GSSA is a bit less than half the price of membership > at > Ancestry24. > > > > Now, lets have a look at what you get for your money. “For free”, as you > say. GSSA gives you a journal (Familia) and a newsletter (Genesis or > Maiores > or Famnea, etc, depending on your branch). GSSA has a web site that offers > you: > > > > > > Goals and Objectives > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44%3Ag > oals-and-objectives&catid=126%3Aintro-page&Itemid=125&lang=en> > > Written by administrator. > > To promote and facilitate interest and research in genealogy and family > history to present members, to the genealogical hobbyist and to all > members > of the public who may be interested in genealogy and/or family history. > > To promote general understanding of Genealogy and its value, to understand > and MAINTAIN PROFESSIONAL STATUS AND DIGNITY for genealogists amongst > members of the Genealogical Society of South Africa and the general > public. > > To encourage the OBSERVANCE OF THE HIGHEST STANDARDS OF RESEARCH by > members > of the Society. > > To provide a WIDE RANGE OF EDUCATIONAL COURSES, research programmes and > services for the general benefit of GSSA branches and members, as well as > any other service or assistance as may from time to time be decided upon > by > the National Council of the GSSA. > > TO ENCOURAGE AND DEVELOP LINKS WITH FAMILY HISTORY SOCIETIES. > > TO ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN CONTACT WITH LIKE MINDED SOCIETIES THROUGHOUT > THE > WORLD. > > TO ESTABLISH A CERTIFICATION PROGRAM TO PROMOTE THE RELIABILITY, > PROFESSIONALISM AND INTEGRITY of all South African Genealogists and Record > Researchers. > > To assist in the preservation of all genealogical records and memorabilia. > > > > In contrast to this dedication to professionalism Ferdie van Wyk writes: > > We serve a community of dedicated AMATEUR family researchers. > > The advantages of joining the GSSA are numerous. > > a) One becomes part of a family of likeminded researchers with vast > experience and one can interact with them on a personal level. > > b) You know that you can call on the help of people that is > supportive > and accommodating. > > c) You will gain access to research and educational resources and > remain up to date with developments in the world of genealogy. > > d) You get the opportunity to go on outings to sites of genealogical > significance and listen to experts in the research field. > > e) Benefits include discount on genealogy books, DVDs and CDs. > > > > > > GSSA offers various projects: > > 1. > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=44%3A > cemetery-recording-project&layout=default&Itemid=181&lang=en> Cemetery > Recording Project ( 5 Articles ) > > 2. > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=37%3A > gssa-google-earth-cemetery-initiative&layout=default&Itemid=182&lang=en> > GSSA Google Earth Cemetery Initiative ( 6 Articles ) > > 3. > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=38%3A > 1984-voters-roll&layout=default&Itemid=296&lang=en> 1984 Voter's Roll > ( 1 > Article ) > > 4. > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=69%3A > funeral-programs&layout=default&Itemid=297&lang=en> Funeral Programs ( 2 > Articles ) > > 5. > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=118%3 > Achurch-photographs&layout=default&Itemid=298&lang=en> Church Photographs > ( 1 Article ) > > 6. > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=119%3 > Acape-masters-office-death-notice-index&layout=default&Itemid=300&lang=en> > Cape Master's Office Death Notice Index ( 1 Article ) The digitization > of > the Cape Death Notice Index was a project undertaken by GSSA many years > ago. > The searchable database will appear on our website soon. > > > > GSSA offers various publications (Plural). These are: > > 1. Familia. (Yes, just the one.) > > http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&id=19&Ite > mid=1&lang=en> &view=section&id=19&Itemid=1&lang=en > > > > For some peculiar reason the newsletters of each branch do not count as > publications of GSSA. Consequently they are not listed on the publications > page. > > East Cape Branch publishes a quarterly journal called "Chronicles." > > eGGSA does not mention on the GSSA web page that it has a newsletter, > Genesis. It does offer “eGGSA Downloads, of which “Newsletter 2011 no 2” > yields the “Western Cape Newsletter”. > > The page for the Free State Branch does not mention that it publishes a > newsletter, Maiores. > > http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content > <http://www.genza.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=b > log&id=56&Itemid=292&lang=en> > &view=category&layout=blog&id=56&Itemid=292&lang=en > > The Northern Transvaal Branch does not mention a newsletter on the web > site. > > The North West Branch does not mention its newsletter, Famnea. > > The West Gauteng branch does mention its newsletter, West Gauteng News. > > The Western Cape branch does mention its newsletter, Western Cape > newsletter, but it does not mention its quarterly journal, Capensis. > > > > I also discovered another list of benefits of membership at > http://www.eggsa.org/benefits_e.htm > > > The Benefits of Membership! > > > Genealogy will put you on fascinating paths where you will learn not only > about your ancestors, but also about your history and culture. By joining > eGSSA you become part of the genealogical community at large. > > Membership will bring you the following: > > · Stay up to date with genealogical developments with four issues > of > eFamilia, the official journal of the <http://www.ggsa.info/> > Genealogical > Society of South Africa (GSSA), and four issues of genesis, the eGSSA > newsletter > > · Refine your research skills with our learning resources > > · Save at the eGSSA Bookstore where you will find useful CD > products > and other publications > > · You can complete your application on-line and submit it via the > Internet > > · For those people who are not currently GSSA members, or cannot > join a current branch, this is an ideal opportunity to become part of GSSA > and to step into this exciting era. > > · Members of the GSSA can use our online shop to order photographs > <http://www.eggsa.org/sales/help_archive_docs.htm> of documents in three > repositories of the South African Archives, those in Bloemfontein, > Pietermaritzburg, Cape Town and Pretoria at a special price. > > NB. The Cape Town Archives Repository has banned mechanical copying by any > means of documents in their care. The KAB offers its own copying service > (printed, not digital, copies). We cannot, therefore, accept any orders > for > KAB documents. We are still offering this service for documents from the > Bloemfontein, Pietermaritzburg and Pretoria Archive repositories. Please > see our <http://www.eggsa.org/sales/help_archive_docs.htm> FAQ for the > details of this service. > > eGSSA is an indispensable resource for genealogists and family historians > seeking research guidance, publications and materials, and opportunities > to > interact with others who share the same interest > > > > TO SUM UP, FOR ABOUT R150 GSSA OFFERS MEMBERSHIP, FAMILIA AND ONE BRANCH > JOURNAL OR NEWSLETTER > > AND YOU CAN BUY BOOKS AND CDS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA > > AND ACCESS TO THE OTHER NEWSLETTERS AND JOURNALS, IF YOU PAY EXTRA > > AND PHOTOS OF DOCUMENTS IN SOME ARCHIVES, IF YOU PAY EXTRA > > AND ACCESS TO THE 1984 VOTERS’ ROLL, IF YOU PAID EXTRA. > > > > eGSSA OFFERS VARIOUS UTTERLY VALUABLE TRANSCRIPTIONS, IMAGES OF > GRAVESTONES > ETC, BUT NOTHING ON THE SCALE OF ANCESTRY24. > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > > > Ancestry24 should now be examines to see what you get for your R395. > > > > > AVAILABLE DATABASES > > > Ancestry24 is the most comprehensive online information source for South > African family history. Here is a list of just some of our databases, > which > grow daily. > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=379> Birth records > > 14,000+ records from various registers covering 1895 - 1921 > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=384> Baptism records > > 1000,000+ records from 1600's until the 1950's > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=352> Death Notice records > > Over 5,000 in a growing collection > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=388> Burials > > 50,000+ from various parish records and cemeteries > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=394> Marriage records > > >From Namaqualand, Eastern Cape, Johannesburg, Cape and Natal > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=380> Passenger records > > 50,000+ recorded persons travelling between England and South Africa > > Government Gazettes > > Legal announcements of deceased persons in South Africa 1992 - current > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=377> Deceased Estates Index > > 500,000+ individuals from the Transvaal and Cape from 1838 - 1900's > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=368> Cape Almanacs > > Lists of Inhabitants of the Cape 1813 - 1891 > > <http://ancestry24.com/collection-type/?id=371> Military > > various records including indexes to Anglo Boer War, Rhodesian Rebellion > and > Boer War Prisoners in Bermuda > > Newspaper Domestic Announcements > > Daily birth, marriage, death notices from national newspapers 2005 - > current > > > > > > Ancestry24 offers ten times better value for money than GSSA. Johan, if > you > are a prudent pensioner, don’t waste your meagre resources on GSSA, invest > them where you get a better return: at Ancestry24. > > > > > > Regards, > > Francois > > _____________ > > Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom > > Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. > > Greeff Family Web Site: www.Greeff.info > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Johan Dorey-Venter [mailto:doreyventer@gmail.com] > Sent: 04 December 2011 21:31 > To: south-africa-eastern-cape@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] eGGSA South African Passenger List Project > > > > Trixie and Francois, > > > > Some of us, having to live on a meagre pension in South Africa, > > actually find Ancestry24 subscription prohibitively expensive. > > > > >From my Christmas bonus, I could at least treat myself to a GSSA > membership. > > > > With the result that at least I am grateful for getting something for > free! > > > > R395, paid in british £'s is cheap, in South Africa it feeds the > > average pensioner for 4 weeks. > > > > Johan. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > <mailto:SOUTH-AFRICA-EASTERN-CAPE-request@rootsweb.com> > SOUTH-AFRICA-EASTERN-CAPE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com> www.avg.com > > Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4656 - Release Date: 12/04/11 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-EASTERN-CAPE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-EASTERN-CAPE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. 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Dear Friends I want to do a Jacobs DNA project with Christoff Eramus of the University of Pretoria. We need another six male descendants of the Huguenot Pierre Jacob plus two descendants of one of the other Jacobs progenitors (maybe Jan Jacobs of Ter Vere?) as well as two members of a Coloured Jacobs family. At http://web.up.ac.za/default.asp?ipkCategoryID=17064&subid=17064 Christoff said: "I am currently doing PhD and my focus is on combining genealogical records and genetic data for the Afrikaner population. By taking the genealogical records into consideration and collecting DNA marker data, we can estimate population genetic parameters, like mutation rates and infidelity. We also aim to create a publicly available database explaining the genetic make-up of the Afrikaner population and linking typical y-chromosome STR profiles to certain surnames. From 2006 to 2010, I joined the Genographic Project for the sub-Saharan region at the National Health Laboratory Service in Braamfontein, Johannesburg. The aim of the Genographic Project is to collect mitochondrial and y-chromosome data from at least 100 000 samples from around the world and to create a publicly available genotypic database. Each centre divides their sample quota into smaller research projects. I was involved in collecting samples, typing DNA in the lab and publishing research for these smaller research projects." I would appreciate it if you can assist me to get Jacobs men who want to be part of this study. Kind regards Daniel Jacobs Vir gratis Genealogiese Handleiding: http://gendata.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13&Itemid=28 Siebrits/du Toit/Meyer/Zeeman/De Villiers (Franschhoek/Paarl) Jacobs/Oberholster/Smith (Graaff-Reinet/Fauresmith) Le Roux/Van der Merwe (Villiersdorp) Louw/Brink (Kaapstad/Wellington) De Vos (De Doorns/Wellington) Malan (Wellington/Zeerust) Ungerer (Swellendam) Smith (Wellington)

Thanks Colin - I thought I knew what was on there but no... It would be grate if there were similar listings for the other archives.. This is a very helpful one for those looking for info in Natal.. (http://www.eggsa.org/arrivals/eGGSA%20Passenger%20Project.html) List of Natal Estate files 1852-1928 (not indexed in Naairs) Take care Lynn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Pretorius" <lists@fmxau.com> To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com>; <buitenposten@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 1:33 AM Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] free resources > Hi all > > > > It may be an appropriate time to remind list-members of some of the free > resources which are available on the eGGSA website - that is, FREE OF > CHARGE > to ANYONE, whether they be members or non-members. > > > > Gravestone photographs, with transcriptions: 350,000+ > > (http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=43) > > Death notices and other archive documents: 20,000+ > > (http://www.eggsa.org/documents/main.php?g2_itemId=54) > > Books of genealogical/historical interest (9) > > (http://www.eggsa.org/documents/main.php?g2_itemId=15) > > Family Bible photos, with transcriptions: some 900+ images > > (http://www.eggsa.org/documents/main.php?g2_itemId=383991) > > Cremation records at the Cambridge crematorium in E-London, some 20,000+ > entries > > > (http://www.eggsa.org/transcriptions/CambridgeCrematorium/CambridgeCrematori > um.htm) > > Baptismal register transcriptions > > (http://www.eggsa.org/bdms/Baptisms.html) > > Marriage register transcriptions > > (http://www.eggsa.org/bdms/Marriages.html) > > Burial registers > > (http://www.eggsa.org/bdms/Burials.html) > > Newspaper Extracts (from the UK National Archives and the British > Newspaper > Library) > > (http://www.eggsa.org/newspapers/) > > 1820 settler correspondence (housed at the UK National Archives) > > (http://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/) > > Passenger lists (in various South African Archives) > > (http://www.eggsa.org/arrivals/eGGSA%20Passenger%20Project.html) > > List of Natal Estate files 1852-1928 (not indexed in Naairs) > > > (http://eggsa.org/Pietermaritzburg%20Masters%20Office%20estate%20files.htm) > > Muster roll of the Free Settlers at the Cape of Good Hope in 1685 > > (http://eggsa.org/transcriptions/monsterrollen/mr_intro.htm)