Pat, A couple of people were irritated by my post. Nonetheless, I suggest you look for biographies online for: Frederich Sleigh ROBERTS Horatio Herbert KITCHENER Emily HOBHOUSE You can judge for yourself. Roberts started the "scorched earth" policy of burning farms, which led to the need for refugee camps. Kitchener continued and refined the policy, to depopulate the countryside, hence the need to "concentrate" the population. Emily Hobhouse was a British social worker. Read the biographies, and judge for yourself. It's a very tragic story. I sure wish I had kept my high school history textbooks. What they didn't tell us! Best wishes, Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 02:50:11 PM EST From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> To: shayes@dunelm.org.uk, Keith Meintjes <umfundi@usa.net>, south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. Thanks Steve. As I recall this part of our history was not taught at school (certainly not during the 40/50/ Nor at University. ) I am interested because it was a very important part in the life of one of my ancestors. And I knew, and know, very little, so I am filling in that part of my family history. In fact I think it is true to say that I have learnt more about South African History since doing genealogy than I ever knew before in spite of having a BA in History. The whole eastern Province and the South African War, the old Transvaal....... Oh I could go on and on. I am the richer for what these lists have given me. In fact I depend on them. Patricia Frykberg (aka Pat) -------------------------------------------------- >> The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been >> discussed >> on this site. >> . >> >> It's history. > > It's also one of the points where family meets general history. > > A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the > camps, > and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment are > also of interest. > > > -- > Steve Hayes > E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 > Fax: 086-548-2525 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >

Afternoon all An article on Johannes Praetorius (1630-1680) - the imperial poet laureate and not the progenitor of the SA Praetoriae - by Prof Gerhild Scholz Williams of Washington University has been added to the articles page on the pretoriusfamilie.info website - direct link to the articles page is: http://www.pretoriusfamilie.info/Articles.php regards Colin

Hi Lists Headstones for letter L now available: http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=433858 Regards Carol BENEKE nee STEWART Port Elizabeth, South Africa. 083 482 1482 ________________________ Researching: STEWART, STONE, LUKE, BENEKE, BENECKE, VON BENECKE and related families.

Hi Francois Hier is my en my vrou se matriargale lyne: 1. Nantes Leonard KRUGER (1959 - 2. Maria Johann Levina CELLIERS (1925 - 2005) 3. Martha Catharina PIETERSE (1895 -1975) 4. Johanna Magdalena Elizabeth GROVE (1963 - 1947) 5. Elizabeth Magdalena PIETERSE (1821 - ?) 6. Anna Catharina PIETERSE (1800 - 1871) 7. Johanna Elizabeth SMIT (1778 - ?) 8. Catharina VAN DYK (1724 - ?) 9. Maria VISSER (1697 - ?) 10. Johanna (Janneke) Thielemans HENDRIKS (1600 - ?) 11. Mayken (Maijken) VAN DER BERG v Diest 1. My vrou Heila Magdalena Elizabeth Catharina SWANEPOEL (1959 - 2. Johanna Stephina BEKKER (1937 - 2009 ) 3. Heila Magdalena Elizabeth Catharina PRETORIUS (1904 - 1982) 4. Hermina Christina PRETORIUS (1875 - 1930) 5. Helena Cornelia Fredrika BOTES (1840 -1910) 6. Maria Helena Abigail DEYSEL (1819 - ?) 7. Helena Cornelia VAN ANTWERPEN (1791 - ?) 8. Abigail VAN TONDER (1765 - ?) 9. Susanna VAN WYK (1725 - 1773) 10. Sara FOURIE (1705 - 1771) 11. Susanna CORDIER (? - 1715) 12. Francoise MARTINET (1659 - 1698) My GEDOM file volg direk na jou toe Groetnis Nantes Kruger Moreleta Park PRETORIA 2011/12/11 Francois Greeff <goodgreeff@hiddencode.co.uk> > Jammer, spelfout. Dit is jou Vroulike DNA, jou MtDNA, jou Mitokondriale > DNA. > > Ek begin tans met ‘n DNA projek op vroulike lyne – met ander woorde, sonder > vanne wat in elke geslag herhaal word. Die projek is oop vir beide mans en > vrouens want beide geslagte het MtDNA, maar slegs vrouens kan dit vir hulle > kinders gee. Wat ons soek is jou ma se ma se ma, onafgesien of jy self ‘n > man of ‘n vrou is. > > As enigeen vrae het, vra gerus want ek sal met graagte probeer om die > onderwerp te verhelder. > > Ek het pas begin met ‘n “Register van Matriargale Lyne” in SA genealogie, > so > stuur asseblief vir my ‘n GEDCOM van jou matriargale lyn, en jou ma se > matriargale lyn. Hieronder is voorbeelde van moederslyne tot by ‘n > matriargale stammoeder, andersinds genoem jou matriargale immigrante > voorouer. Wat in hierdie voorbeelde interressant is, is dat beide Lucas > RINKEN en Willieta DE SWARDT van die selfde matriargale stammoeder afstam, > oerouma MOUY. > > Pierre MOUY se onbekende vrou is hulle gemeenskaplike matriargale > stammoeder. Dit beteken dat daar ‘n MtDNA lyn van Lucas af loop tot by > Jeanne MOUY se ma, en van haar af deur Maria MOUY tot by Willieta DE > SWARDT. > Ons kan dus MtDNA gebruik om te wys dat die stamboom tussen hulle twee eg > en > korrek is. As daar egter ‘n DNA afwyking van die stamboom is, dan sal die > MtDNA dit wys. Dan begin ‘n baie interresante soektog na die omstandighede > wat daartoe gelei het dat die stamboom afwyk van die MtDNA lyn. Ons sal > dan, > byvoorbeeld, kyk of een van hulle twee se oumas ‘n losloper kindjiie in die > ABO konsentrasiekampe opgetel het en as haar eie grootgemaak het. Sulke > dinge gebeur. > > Jeanne en Maria MOUY se ma het ongeveer 75,000 afstammelinge in Suid Afrika > – waarvan ons tot dusver weet. > > Lucas RINKEN se matriargale lyn: > > Vrou van Pierre MOUY, gebore Belgieë > > Jeanne MOUY > > Elizabeth MINNAAR > > Anna FOURIE > > Anna Christina MOOLMAN > > Anna Christina BLOMERUS > > Catherina Elizabeth BROOKS > > Catherina Elizabeth RALL > > Catherina Elizabeth Wilhelmina KOCH > > Lucas Gerhardus RINKEN > > ______________________________________________ > > Willieta DE SWARDT (gebore VAN SCHALKWYK) se matriargale lyn: > > Vrou van Pierre MOUY, gebore Belgieë > > Maria MOUY > > Anna RETIEF > > Anna Aletta HUGO > > Anna Johanna DE VILLIERS > > Margaretha Magdalena BOSMAN > > Margaretha Magdalena Catharina FAURE > > Aletta DE KOCK > > Margaretha VAN DER MERWE > > Willieta VAN SCHALKWYK > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > Annelie Els (gebore VAN DEN HEEVER) se matriargale lyn: > > Anna PREVOT > > Anna VD MERWE > > Anna Sophia BOTHA > > Magdalena PRETORIUS > > Anna Elizabeth LOUW > > Magdalena Helena VD MERWE > > Anna Elizabeth PIENAAR > > Petronella Sophia BOTHA > > Anna Elizabeth LIEBENBERG > > Petronella Sophia VD BERG > > Anna Elizabeth VILJOEN > > Petronella Sophia VREY > > Anna Elizabeth vd Heever > > > > _______________________________________________ > > My eie matriargale lyn is die selfde as my suster, Antoinette, se > matriargale lyn: > > Constantia van Bengale > > Johanna de Ryk CLAAZ > > Cornelia van SAXEN > > Johanna Constantia DEYZEL > > Maria Margaretha BEZUIDENHOUT > > Cornelia Johanna DEYSEL > > Martha Johanna NORTIER > > Cornelia Elisabeth Sophia JANSE VAN RENSBURG > > Aletta Maria ERASMUS > > Amie Marion RUDMAN > > Yvonne Amy VAN ZYL > > Antoinette Vonne GREEFF > > Angelique DE BEER > > Connor Douglas MCINTOSH > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Jaco Maree Greeff se matriargale lyn is natuurlik heeltemaal anders as die > van alle ander Greeff stamlede: > > Johanna GUILLAUMET (* Languedoc, Frankryk. x Jan Engelbrecht, 13 Sept 1733, > Paarl) > > Gloudina ENGELBRECHT > > Catharina VAN DER WESTHUIZEN > > Johanna Catharina VAN DEN HEEVER > > Anna Margaretha MOUTON > > Anna Magdalena RAS > > Barbara Jacoba ENGELBRECHT > > Barbara Jacoba SNYMAN > > Barbara Jacoba VAN DER MERWE > > Maria Magdalena MALAN > > Jaco Maree Greeff > > Kyk net hoe mooi herhaal die “Barbara Jacoba” oor drie geslagte in Jaco > Greeff se moederlyn. In moederlyne sien one dikwels ‘n voornaam wat oor > verskeie geslagte herhaal word, en hiedie herhaalde voorname kan ook mans > se > name wees. > > Hier val nou ‘n lekker vakgebied in SA genealogie oop. Die meeste van ons > weet wie ons patriargale stamvaders is, en wie hulle mee getroud was - ons > patriargale stammoeders. Ek wed dat min mense ooit gekyk het wie hulle > matriargale stammoeders is. Kyk asseblief of jy jou matriargale lyn, van ma > tot ma tot ma, kan opspoor en stuur dit dan na SA Gen, met ‘n afskrif direk > aan <mailto:Greeff@Greeff.info <mailto:Greeff%40Greeff.info> > > Greeff@Greeff.info <mailto:Greeff%40Greeff.info> . Ek sal dit dan in die > databasis sit. Wees asseblief bewus daarvan dat hierdie databasis op die > internet gesit gaan word, en dat ons in die databasis sal soek na mense > soos > Lucas en Willieta wat ‘n gemeenskaplike matriargale stammoeder het. By > hulle > sal ons ‘n MtDNA monster vra, en verder werk. > > Groete, > Francois > _____________ > Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom > Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. > Greeff Family Web Site: <http://www.Greeff.info <http://www.greeff.info/>> > www.Greeff.info <http://www.greeff.info/> > > From: Annelie Els [mailto:annelie@who-els.co.za > <mailto:annelie%40who-els.co.za> ] > Sent: 24 August 2011 13:28 > To: SAGenealogie@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SAGenealogie%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [SA-Gen] Jou ma se ma se ma... ens - Annelie > > Hi Francois, > > Ek het toe gaan kyk en as al die data in die SAG korrek is dan loop my > matriargale lyn tot by Anna Prevot die Europese immigrant ... > > Anna Elizabeth vd Heever - Petronella Sophia VREY - Anna Elizabeth VILJOEN > - > Petronella Sophia VD BERG - Anna Elizabeth LIEBENBERG - Petronella Sophia > BOTHA - Anna Elizabeth PIENAAR - Magdalena Helena VD MERWE - Anna Elizabeth > LOUW - Magdalena PRETORIUS - Anna Sophia BOTHA - Anna VD MERWE - Anna > PREVOT > ... > > Groetnis > > Annelie Els > Pretoria. > My Grootjies (Pa):-Heever x Stassen & Liebenberg x Badenhorst > (Ma):-Vrey x Scott & Viljoen x vd Berg > Paul se Grootjies (Pa):- Els x Schalkwyk & Badenhorst x Engelbrech > (Ma):- Els x Vermaak & Rainer x Bruyns > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4672 - Release Date: 12/10/11 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > __._,_.___ > > Reply to > <mailto:goodgreeff@hiddencode.co.uk > ?subject=Re%3A%20Jou%20Vrolike%20DNA%2E%2 > E%2E%2E%20Jou%20MtDNA> sender | Reply to > <mailto:SAGenealogie@yahoogroups.com > ?subject=Re%3A%20Jou%20Vrolike%20DNA%2E% > 2E%2E%2E%20Jou%20MtDNA> group | Reply > < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGenealogie/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZnY5ZGd0BF9TAz > > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjY5NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTE5MzkyOARtc2dJZAM3MDI1NARzZW > MDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMjM1NzEwMDM-?act=reply&messageNum=70254> via > web post | > < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGenealogie/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMjFjNTQ5BF9TAz > > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjY5NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTE5MzkyOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudH > BjBHN0aW1lAzEzMjM1NzEwMDM-> Start a New Topic > > Messages in this topic > < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGenealogie/message/68293;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3ZlO > > Gs0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjY5NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTE5MzkyOARtc2dJZAM3M > DI1NARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMjM1NzEwMDMEdHBjSWQDNjgyOTM-> (10) > > Recent Activity: > > · > < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGenealogie/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJoMXFicjMyBF9TA > > zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjY5NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTE5MzkyOARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z > mlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTMyMzU3MTAwMw--> New Files 1 > > > < > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGenealogie;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbHVxOXFuBF9TAzk3MzU > > 5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjY5NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTE5MzkyOARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN > 0aW1lAzEzMjM1NzEwMDM-> Visit Your Group > > SAGenealogie is ‘n poslys vir die bespreking van genealogiese en > genealogies-verwante aangeleenthede alleenlik, onderhewig aan die > voorwaardes soos uitgespel by http://www.sagenealogie.com Lede wat > aangeleenthede wil opper wat nie van 'n suiwer genealogiese aard is nie, > word versoek om dit nie op die poslys te doen nie, maar dit liefs van die > lys af direk aan die betrokkene te stuur. Probleme, klagtes en voorstelle > vir verbetering moet gestuur word aan: > SAGenealogie-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Besoek ons webblad by: > http://www.sagenealogie.com > http://www.sagenealogy.com > > > > > MARKETPLACE > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get > the Yahoo! Toolbar now. > < > http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ourf0be/M=493064.14543979.14562481.132984 > > 30/D=groups/S=1705193928:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1323578203/L=f6717d1e-23a0-11e1-bd > > 2f-7317895b245a/B=aWDmO0oGYzc-/J=1323571003431762/K=CmlbjnCEKzYYMmBwbSjXDA/A > =6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http:/us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj> > > > > > < > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlb20xaWhzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExN > > jY5NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTE5MzkyOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMyMzU3MTAwM > w--> Yahoo! Groups > > Switch to: > <mailto:SAGenealogie-traditional@yahoogroups.com > ?subject=Change%20Delivery%2 > 0Format:%20Traditional> Text-Only, > <mailto:SAGenealogie-digest@yahoogroups.com > ?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Dige > st> Daily Digest • > <mailto:SAGenealogie-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > Unsubscribe • <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Use > > . > > > < > http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=11669473/grpspId=1705193928/msgI > d=70254/stime=1323571003/nc1=5522126/nc2=5741392/nc3=5898812> > > __,_._,___ > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4672 - Release Date: 12/10/11 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Nantes Kruger Moreleta Park PRETORIA

Love I guess! Happy Christmas Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "Walter Jones" <jones3440@hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:30 AM To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > > Hello Pat, > For what it's worth, my Maternal G'father Joseph AINDOW fought > in the War 1900-02, and had some connection I believe with Middleburg > Camp, possibly as a guard? There he met? and Married a Boer widow, Maria > Magdelena MARITZ, Nee KNOETZE, her husband having died on the "Dundee" > field. What reason there was for marrying i've no idea, but it's strange > how things work out > > Kind Regards, and All the best for Christmas and the New Year to All on > the List. > > Walter Jones, Scotland. > >> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 08:50:02 +1300 >> From: patfryk@clear.net.nz >> To: shayes@dunelm.org.uk; umfundi@usa.net; south-africa@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. >> >> Thanks Steve. As I recall this part of our history was not taught at >> school >> (certainly not during the 40/50/ Nor at University. ) >> I am interested because it was a very important part in the life of one >> of >> my ancestors. And I knew, and know, very little, so I am filling in that >> part of my family history. In fact I think it is true to say that I have >> learnt more about South African History since doing genealogy than I ever >> knew before in spite of having a BA in History. The whole eastern >> Province >> and the South African War, the old Transvaal....... Oh I could go on and >> on. >> I am the richer for what these lists have given me. >> In fact I depend on them. >> Patricia Frykberg (aka Pat) >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> >> The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been >> >> discussed >> >> on this site. >> >> >> . >> >> >> >> It's history. >> > >> > It's also one of the points where family meets general history. >> > >> > A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the >> > camps, >> > and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment >> > are >> > also of interest. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Steve Hayes >> > E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk >> > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) >> > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com >> > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 >> > Fax: 086-548-2525 >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > ----- >> > No virus found in this message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >

I have been following the thread on the Boer War concentration camps. Like Pat, I enjoy learning history from real, "on the ground", stories to get a better idea of how people lived aside from official history. Are there any such records available (on line, hopefully) of First World War POW camps in South Africa? My German grandfather, arrested in what was Southern Rhodesia, spent the war in a pow camp in Pietermaritzburg. Grandpa is a major brickwall in my research and as I am retiring shortly I am looking for anything to help knock a few chinks into his family. Season's greetings from a rapidly chilling UK Lynette Surrey

Thanks Steve. As I recall this part of our history was not taught at school (certainly not during the 40/50/ Nor at University. ) I am interested because it was a very important part in the life of one of my ancestors. And I knew, and know, very little, so I am filling in that part of my family history. In fact I think it is true to say that I have learnt more about South African History since doing genealogy than I ever knew before in spite of having a BA in History. The whole eastern Province and the South African War, the old Transvaal....... Oh I could go on and on. I am the richer for what these lists have given me. In fact I depend on them. Patricia Frykberg (aka Pat) -------------------------------------------------- >> The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been >> discussed >> on this site. >> . >> >> It's history. > > It's also one of the points where family meets general history. > > A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the > camps, > and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment are > also of interest. > > > -- > Steve Hayes > E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 > Fax: 086-548-2525 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >

Jammer, spelfout. Dit is jou Vroulike DNA, jou MtDNA, jou Mitokondriale DNA. Ek begin tans met ‘n DNA projek op vroulike lyne – met ander woorde, sonder vanne wat in elke geslag herhaal word. Die projek is oop vir beide mans en vrouens want beide geslagte het MtDNA, maar slegs vrouens kan dit vir hulle kinders gee. Wat ons soek is jou ma se ma se ma, onafgesien of jy self ‘n man of ‘n vrou is. As enigeen vrae het, vra gerus want ek sal met graagte probeer om die onderwerp te verhelder. Ek het pas begin met ‘n “Register van Matriargale Lyne” in SA genealogie, so stuur asseblief vir my ‘n GEDCOM van jou matriargale lyn, en jou ma se matriargale lyn. Hieronder is voorbeelde van moederslyne tot by ‘n matriargale stammoeder, andersinds genoem jou matriargale immigrante voorouer. Wat in hierdie voorbeelde interressant is, is dat beide Lucas RINKEN en Willieta DE SWARDT van die selfde matriargale stammoeder afstam, oerouma MOUY. Pierre MOUY se onbekende vrou is hulle gemeenskaplike matriargale stammoeder. Dit beteken dat daar ‘n MtDNA lyn van Lucas af loop tot by Jeanne MOUY se ma, en van haar af deur Maria MOUY tot by Willieta DE SWARDT. Ons kan dus MtDNA gebruik om te wys dat die stamboom tussen hulle twee eg en korrek is. As daar egter ‘n DNA afwyking van die stamboom is, dan sal die MtDNA dit wys. Dan begin ‘n baie interresante soektog na die omstandighede wat daartoe gelei het dat die stamboom afwyk van die MtDNA lyn. Ons sal dan, byvoorbeeld, kyk of een van hulle twee se oumas ‘n losloper kindjiie in die ABO konsentrasiekampe opgetel het en as haar eie grootgemaak het. Sulke dinge gebeur. Jeanne en Maria MOUY se ma het ongeveer 75,000 afstammelinge in Suid Afrika – waarvan ons tot dusver weet. Lucas RINKEN se matriargale lyn: Vrou van Pierre MOUY, gebore Belgieë Jeanne MOUY Elizabeth MINNAAR Anna FOURIE Anna Christina MOOLMAN Anna Christina BLOMERUS Catherina Elizabeth BROOKS Catherina Elizabeth RALL Catherina Elizabeth Wilhelmina KOCH Lucas Gerhardus RINKEN ______________________________________________ Willieta DE SWARDT (gebore VAN SCHALKWYK) se matriargale lyn: Vrou van Pierre MOUY, gebore Belgieë Maria MOUY Anna RETIEF Anna Aletta HUGO Anna Johanna DE VILLIERS Margaretha Magdalena BOSMAN Margaretha Magdalena Catharina FAURE Aletta DE KOCK Margaretha VAN DER MERWE Willieta VAN SCHALKWYK ___________________________________________________ Annelie Els (gebore VAN DEN HEEVER) se matriargale lyn: Anna PREVOT Anna VD MERWE Anna Sophia BOTHA Magdalena PRETORIUS Anna Elizabeth LOUW Magdalena Helena VD MERWE Anna Elizabeth PIENAAR Petronella Sophia BOTHA Anna Elizabeth LIEBENBERG Petronella Sophia VD BERG Anna Elizabeth VILJOEN Petronella Sophia VREY Anna Elizabeth vd Heever _______________________________________________ My eie matriargale lyn is die selfde as my suster, Antoinette, se matriargale lyn: Constantia van Bengale Johanna de Ryk CLAAZ Cornelia van SAXEN Johanna Constantia DEYZEL Maria Margaretha BEZUIDENHOUT Cornelia Johanna DEYSEL Martha Johanna NORTIER Cornelia Elisabeth Sophia JANSE VAN RENSBURG Aletta Maria ERASMUS Amie Marion RUDMAN Yvonne Amy VAN ZYL Antoinette Vonne GREEFF Angelique DE BEER Connor Douglas MCINTOSH __________________________________________________________ Jaco Maree Greeff se matriargale lyn is natuurlik heeltemaal anders as die van alle ander Greeff stamlede: Johanna GUILLAUMET (* Languedoc, Frankryk. x Jan Engelbrecht, 13 Sept 1733, Paarl) Gloudina ENGELBRECHT Catharina VAN DER WESTHUIZEN Johanna Catharina VAN DEN HEEVER Anna Margaretha MOUTON Anna Magdalena RAS Barbara Jacoba ENGELBRECHT Barbara Jacoba SNYMAN Barbara Jacoba VAN DER MERWE Maria Magdalena MALAN Jaco Maree Greeff Kyk net hoe mooi herhaal die “Barbara Jacoba” oor drie geslagte in Jaco Greeff se moederlyn. In moederlyne sien one dikwels ‘n voornaam wat oor verskeie geslagte herhaal word, en hiedie herhaalde voorname kan ook mans se name wees. Hier val nou ‘n lekker vakgebied in SA genealogie oop. Die meeste van ons weet wie ons patriargale stamvaders is, en wie hulle mee getroud was - ons patriargale stammoeders. Ek wed dat min mense ooit gekyk het wie hulle matriargale stammoeders is. Kyk asseblief of jy jou matriargale lyn, van ma tot ma tot ma, kan opspoor en stuur dit dan na SA Gen, met ‘n afskrif direk aan <mailto:Greeff@Greeff.info <mailto:Greeff%40Greeff.info> > Greeff@Greeff.info <mailto:Greeff%40Greeff.info> . Ek sal dit dan in die databasis sit. Wees asseblief bewus daarvan dat hierdie databasis op die internet gesit gaan word, en dat ons in die databasis sal soek na mense soos Lucas en Willieta wat ‘n gemeenskaplike matriargale stammoeder het. By hulle sal ons ‘n MtDNA monster vra, en verder werk. Groete, Francois _____________ Francois Greeff, 36 Aston Road, London, SW20 8BE, United Kingdom Phone: 0044 20 8123 4224. Mobile 0044 79 6372 2345. Skype: Greefffrancois. Greeff Family Web Site: <http://www.Greeff.info> www.Greeff.info From: Annelie Els [mailto:annelie@who-els.co.za <mailto:annelie%40who-els.co.za> ] Sent: 24 August 2011 13:28 To: SAGenealogie@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SAGenealogie%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [SA-Gen] Jou ma se ma se ma... ens - Annelie Hi Francois, Ek het toe gaan kyk en as al die data in die SAG korrek is dan loop my matriargale lyn tot by Anna Prevot die Europese immigrant ... Anna Elizabeth vd Heever - Petronella Sophia VREY - Anna Elizabeth VILJOEN - Petronella Sophia VD BERG - Anna Elizabeth LIEBENBERG - Petronella Sophia BOTHA - Anna Elizabeth PIENAAR - Magdalena Helena VD MERWE - Anna Elizabeth LOUW - Magdalena PRETORIUS - Anna Sophia BOTHA - Anna VD MERWE - Anna PREVOT ... Groetnis Annelie Els Pretoria. My Grootjies (Pa):-Heever x Stassen & Liebenberg x Badenhorst (Ma):-Vrey x Scott & Viljoen x vd Berg Paul se Grootjies (Pa):- Els x Schalkwyk & Badenhorst x Engelbrech (Ma):- Els x Vermaak & Rainer x Bruyns _____ No virus found in this message. 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Hello Pat, For what it's worth, my Maternal G'father Joseph AINDOW fought in the War 1900-02, and had some connection I believe with Middleburg Camp, possibly as a guard? There he met? and Married a Boer widow, Maria Magdelena MARITZ, Nee KNOETZE, her husband having died on the "Dundee" field. What reason there was for marrying i've no idea, but it's strange how things work out Kind Regards, and All the best for Christmas and the New Year to All on the List. Walter Jones, Scotland. > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 08:50:02 +1300 > From: patfryk@clear.net.nz > To: shayes@dunelm.org.uk; umfundi@usa.net; south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > > Thanks Steve. As I recall this part of our history was not taught at school > (certainly not during the 40/50/ Nor at University. ) > I am interested because it was a very important part in the life of one of > my ancestors. And I knew, and know, very little, so I am filling in that > part of my family history. In fact I think it is true to say that I have > learnt more about South African History since doing genealogy than I ever > knew before in spite of having a BA in History. The whole eastern Province > and the South African War, the old Transvaal....... Oh I could go on and on. > I am the richer for what these lists have given me. > In fact I depend on them. > Patricia Frykberg (aka Pat) > > -------------------------------------------------- > >> The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been > >> discussed > >> on this site. > >> > . > >> > >> It's history. > > > > It's also one of the points where family meets general history. > > > > A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the > > camps, > > and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment are > > also of interest. > > > > > > -- > > Steve Hayes > > E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk > > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) > > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com > > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 > > Fax: 086-548-2525 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dr. Joseph John Ross (born in Scotland) was a doctor in one of the Free State concentration camps, perhaps Hopetown. After the war he became the town doctor at Fauresmith, and married Katie Meintjes, my great aunt. After her death, he remarried Katie's younger sister, Annie. I believe he met Katie at the concentration camp, though I believe she was not interned there. Perhaps she was a helper? There was no reason for her to be interned, as she lived in a town. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 05:01:02 PM EST From: Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. Love I guess! Happy Christmas Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "Walter Jones" <jones3440@hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:30 AM To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > > Hello Pat, > For what it's worth, my Maternal G'father Joseph AINDOW fought > in the War 1900-02, and had some connection I believe with Middleburg > Camp, possibly as a guard? There he met? and Married a Boer widow, Maria > Magdelena MARITZ, Nee KNOETZE, her husband having died on the "Dundee" > field. What reason there was for marrying i've no idea, but it's strange > how things work out > > Kind Regards, and All the best for Christmas and the New Year to All on > the List. > > Walter Jones, Scotland. > >> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 08:50:02 +1300 >> From: patfryk@clear.net.nz >> To: shayes@dunelm.org.uk; umfundi@usa.net; south-africa@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. >> >> Thanks Steve. As I recall this part of our history was not taught at >> school >> (certainly not during the 40/50/ Nor at University. ) >> I am interested because it was a very important part in the life of one >> of >> my ancestors. And I knew, and know, very little, so I am filling in that >> part of my family history. In fact I think it is true to say that I have >> learnt more about South African History since doing genealogy than I ever >> knew before in spite of having a BA in History. The whole eastern >> Province >> and the South African War, the old Transvaal....... Oh I could go on and >> on. >> I am the richer for what these lists have given me. >> In fact I depend on them. >> Patricia Frykberg (aka Pat) >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> >> The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been >> >> discussed >> >> on this site. >> >> >> . >> >> >> >> It's history. >> > >> > It's also one of the points where family meets general history. >> > >> > A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the >> > camps, >> > and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment >> > are >> > also of interest. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Steve Hayes >> > E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk >> > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) >> > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com >> > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 >> > Fax: 086-548-2525 >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > ----- >> > No virus found in this message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4071 - Release Date: 12/09/11 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Come on now everyone...enough is enough...it is not our fault the children died, or folk were treated badly otherwise one lingers over the Japanese bad treatment, the holocaust, the concentration camps much less the ill treatment in the Boer War there were bullies alive even then, as now, of all shades, colours and creeds etc etc ...who can apologise now....and why should one be answereable for the past. This is supposed to be a research site but like "Adele" I am close to unsubscribing as this subject has been done to death Jean Tuckey --------------------------------------------------

Dankie Johann 'Fraid it's 70 years since I last spoke Afrikaans and I doubt I can say more! Just an excellent site too. I did read an awful list some years ago of the deaths at Irene. Mostly children from epidemics if I remember.thanks again Beste wense vir jou and familie ook. Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "Johann H Claassen" <johann.claassen@telkomsa.net> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 9:42 AM To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > http://www.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/ > > > Beste wense > Johann > Paarl (gestig 1687) > > CLAASSEN(sedert > 1720)/CRONJE/DYER/JAMES/POZYN/ROSE/VICTOR/WAGENAAR/WATERSON > > www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/921169/paarlbooks > https://www.facebook.com/#!/johann.h.claassen > > We all grow up with the weight of history on us. Our ancestors dwell in > the > attics of our brains as they do in the spiraling chains of knowledge > hidden > in every cell of our bodies. ~ Shirley Abbott > > e-pos adres: johann.claassen@telkomsa.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pat Frykberg > Sent: 09 December 2011 10:34 PM > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > > Is there a list somewhere of the concentration camp and the numbers and > reasons for so many deaths? > > Patricia Frykberg > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4069 - Release Date: 12/09/11 > >

Surely these messages should not be on the rootsweb site for folk to see world wide, keep your dirty linen private please. this can all be sorted out privately. without trying to outdo one another. its too personal to be shown this way. we can all make mistakes, we are human are we not? Adele Clareville.NZ

Thankl you Johan. Just what I wanted.\ Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "Johan Dorey-Venter" <doreyventer@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 9:50 AM To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > Patricia, > > Have you seen this one? http://www.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/ > > Johan. > > > On 10/12/2011, Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> wrote: >> Is there a list somewhere of the concentration camp and the numbers and >> reasons for so many deaths? >> >> Patricia Frykberg >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4069 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >

Thanks Keith. I do remember reading an awful list of deaths at Irene and it was mostly measles, whooping cough and others. Mostly children too. Pat -------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Meintjes" <umfundi@usa.net> Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 10:25 AM To: <south-africa@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > Pat, > > The immediate causes of the deaths are very simple - infectious diseases. > > The reasons are rooted in the brutality of the British. I think the > current > euphemism is "collateral damage". > > Keith > > ------ Original Message ------ > Received: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 03:51:31 PM EST > From: Johan Dorey-Venter <doreyventer@gmail.com> > To: south-africa@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] List of concentration camps. SA War. > > Patricia, > > Have you seen this one? http://www.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/ > > Johan. > > > On 10/12/2011, Pat Frykberg <patfryk@clear.net.nz> wrote: >> Is there a list somewhere of the concentration camp and the numbers and >> reasons for so many deaths? >> >> Patricia Frykberg >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4069 - Release Date: 12/09/11 >

Hi all The freebies section at www.cdbooks-r-us.com/freebies has been expanded and now includes the following: • Notes of a war correspondent (±548kb) • Louw Pretorius van Rheeboksfontein (± 214kb) • A Sketch of the OFS (± 1.2mb) • Uniondale 1901 - A memento of the Anglo Boer War (± 275kb) • Stamvader Johannes Pretorius op Mauritius (± 1mb) • Johannes Meintjes 1923-1980 (± 4mb) • The Anti-British Crusade (± 97kb) • With Steyn and De Wet, by Philip Pienaar of the Transvaal Telegraph Service (± 380kb) • Private John Jackson's Boer War Diary (± 70kb) • Verslag oor of Herinnerings van Magersfontein - HL du Toit (± 68kb) • Uit de Oorlog - ML Lotter (± 1mb) • Stamouers Johannes Cornelis van Rooy en Anna Francoise Holster (± 340kb) • British South Africa, a history of the colony of the Cape of Good Hope, by Colin Turing Campbell (± 11Mb) Articles which could be made available on this page are also more than welcome Enjoy! Colin Pretorius

On 10 Dec 2011 at 0:05, Keith Meintjes wrote: > The issue of the Anglo-Boer War Concentration Camps has hardly been discussed > on this site. > > Also, I have not seen any message that blames currently living people for the > atrocities of more than a century ago. > > It's history. It's also one of the points where family meets general history. A lot of people will have relatives who were interned or died in the camps, and so the considerations and policies that led to their establishment are also of interest. -- Steve Hayes E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 Fax: 086-548-2525

Is there a list somewhere of the concentration camp and the numbers and reasons for so many deaths? Patricia Frykberg

Is daar Jordaan name? m -----Original Message----- From: south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:south-africa-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Colin Pretorius Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 4:42 AM To: south-africa@rootsweb.com Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] more free books/articles Hi all The freebies section at www.cdbooks-r-us.com/freebies has been expanded and now includes the following: • Notes of a war correspondent (±548kb) • Louw Pretorius van Rheeboksfontein (± 214kb) • A Sketch of the OFS (± 1.2mb) • Uniondale 1901 - A memento of the Anglo Boer War (± 275kb) • Stamvader Johannes Pretorius op Mauritius (± 1mb) • Johannes Meintjes 1923-1980 (± 4mb) • The Anti-British Crusade (± 97kb) • With Steyn and De Wet, by Philip Pienaar of the Transvaal Telegraph Service (± 380kb) • Private John Jackson's Boer War Diary (± 70kb) • Verslag oor of Herinnerings van Magersfontein - HL du Toit (± 68kb) • Uit de Oorlog - ML Lotter (± 1mb) • Stamouers Johannes Cornelis van Rooy en Anna Francoise Holster (± 340kb) • British South Africa, a history of the colony of the Cape of Good Hope, by Colin Turing Campbell (± 11Mb) Articles which could be made available on this page are also more than welcome Enjoy! Colin Pretorius ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOUTH-AFRICA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message