Good Morning Can anyone tell me if the Port Elizabeth Library has a collection of "Red Books"? If so, how complete is it? Are they readily available and how easy is it to access them? I have to decide whether to take a trip to East London, or if I can do my research in Port Elizabeth during a very short trip to South Africa in February. This is urgent for me as I must book my flights this week. I am not able to get through on the phone to the library (perhaps it is closed for Mandela tributes) to ask them. Thank you Veronica in Canada

Good Morning Can anyone tell me if the Port Elizabeth Library has a collection of "Red Books"? If so, how complete is it? Are they readily available and how easy is it to access them? I have to decide whether to take a trip to East London, or if I can do my research in Port Elizabeth during a very short trip to South Africa in February. This is urgent for me as I must book my flights this week. I am not able to get through on the phone to the library (perhaps it is closed for Mandela tributes) to ask them. Thank you Veronica in Canada

Hello good people. I've indexed the 1966 EC Estate files (1 - 3064) and have uploaded the index, sorted alphabetically, to recordsandresources.com Privacy laws here in The Netherlands prohibit me publishing this information for the general public. Registered users on the site can access and use this index for personal research purposes. Content available now for registered users include : Index Estate Files 1966 Eastern Cape Index Estate Files 1974 Western Cape The related images of these files are available to view on familysearch.org. As usual, please feel free to mail any additions, corrections and suggestions/comments or queries to [email protected] best wishes, Leanne

Ken, My point was simply that this statement is incorrect: > The [van Rheede van Oudtshoorn] family is a specific Oudtshoorn family > that married into van Rheede family etc. and that there is also a separate, unrelated, Oudshoorn family. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 05:08:24 PM EST From: "Bart Simon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Danie (?) van Oudtshoorn (?) [!!!} Thank you for the reply. I always read your posts. I am looking for a very specific person. His first name given elsewhere was 'Donie' and then 'Dornie', which I am assuming is probably 'Danie'. The [van Rheede van Oudtshoorn] family is a specific Oudtshoorn family that married into van Rheede family etc. I do not know if he is part of that vRvO family. This person I am calling Danie van Oudtshoorn, was probably b:1930-1937 or so, probably South Africa. 1958: Probably living in (Lusaka?) Zambia or thereabouts, a mechanic there. I am stuck on this one, can everybody help here ?. B.S. ========================== ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for the reply. I always read your posts. I am looking for a very specific person. His first name given elsewhere was 'Donie' and then 'Dornie', which I am assuming is probably 'Danie'. The [van Rheede van Oudtshoorn] family is a specific Oudtshoorn family that married into van Rheede family etc. I do not know if he is part of that vRvO family. This person I am calling Danie van Oudtshoorn, was probably b:1930-1937 or so, probably South Africa. 1958: Probably living in (Lusaka?) Zambia or thereabouts, a mechanic there. I am stuck on this one, can everybody help here ?. B.S. ==========================

MGC: His first name given by word of mouth with an English accent (?), was 'Donie' and then 'Dornie', which I am assuming is probably 'Danie'. The [van Rheede van Oudtshoorn] family: This is a specific Oudtshoorn family that married into van Rheede family etc. [He is born c.1940 or so, probably South Africa. About 1958 living in Lusaka, Zambia or thereabouts.]: He is probably born before 1937, say b:1930-1937, probably in RSA. 1958: He was a mechanic and lived in Zambia, maybe Lusaka ?. I am stuck on this one, can someone help ?. Information is vague. B.S. ==========================

No. There is an Oudshoorn family descended from Willem Oudshoorn (arrived before 1730). There is also the van Rheede van Oudtshoorn family descended from (Baron) Pieter vRvO arrived 1741. The vRvO family in South Africa has always had that name, it is not a splinter of some other family. Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 04:34:29 PM EST From: "Bart Simon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Danie (?) van Oudtshoorn (?) [!!!} MGC: His first name given by word of mouth with an English accent (?), was 'Donie' and then 'Dornie', which I am assuming is probably 'Danie'. The [van Rheede van Oudtshoorn] family: This is a specific Oudtshoorn family that married into van Rheede family etc. [He is born c.1940 or so, probably South Africa. About 1958 living in Lusaka, Zambia or thereabouts.]: He is probably born before 1937, say b:1930-1937, probably in RSA. 1958: He was a mechanic and lived in Zambia, maybe Lusaka ?. I am stuck on this one, can someone help ?. Information is vague. B.S. ========================== ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello. He is born c.1940 or so, probably South Africa. About 1958 living in Lusaka, Zambia or thereabouts. I would like to know more on him, he is very vague. BS.

Hello Bart, I knew some people that had van Rheede van Oudtshoorn's in their family tree, maybe that is what Danie's full surname is. If you check on Google there are some sites that deal with the van Rheede van Oudtshoorn name. Hope you find what you are looking for. Andrié [Canada] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bart Simon Sent: November-30-13 2:58 PM To: RW RSA Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Danie (?) van Oudtshoorn (?) [!!!} Hello. He is born c.1940 or so, probably South Africa. About 1958 living in Lusaka, Zambia or thereabouts. I would like to know more on him, he is very vague. BS. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Hendric, I would like to thank you for your kind help regarding Jurie Johannes - we did not know he had a third name. Your help is much appreciate. Once again thank you. Regards, Karin. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Hendric Sent: 23 November 2013 06:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] De Villiers/Korsten help needed please a1b3c1d6e9f3g3h1 Jan Gabriel DE VILLIERS *10.1.1905 ~Wakkerstroom 23.4.1905, tronkbewaarder. X Lichtenburg 2.4.1929 met Jacoba Johanna KORSTEN *14.12.1912. Geskei 25.5.1932 i1 Jurie Johannes Lourens DE VILLIERS *27.12.1929 ~Pietermaritzburg 20.4.1930 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9091 (20131125) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Hello Keith, Thank you for your kind help regarding Jurie Johannes - we did not realize he had a third name. Your help is much appreciate. Once again thank you. Regards, Karin. Karin, According to the de Villiers book, they were married 2.4.1929 and divorced 25.5.1932 and he remarried three more times. One child is listed: Jurie Johannes Lourens * 27.12.1929 = Pietermaritzburg 20.4.1930 Keith __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9091 (20131125) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Agnes Fitchat, formerly McArthur, born Smith 1841, Montrose Scotland. Agnes, my GGrandmother married James Fitchat in Grahamstown in 1891. Second marriage for both of them. Each had large families. He operated a bakery business in Grahamstown. Something took them to Bloemfontein (c. 1895) where they opened another Bakery business which was still being advertised in St. Andrews School Journal in 1950. They went for a holiday to Scotland in 1903, the business then became his son John's it seems - when they returned from Scotland in 1904, there is no trace of either of them (except his death registration). James died in East London in 1920, Agnes disappeared and I have been unable to trace a date or place of death. She had eight children, but none of their descendants still living know anything of her. Nor do I. Her daughter was my grandmother , who gave misleading information probably as a smoke screen because her first born was labelled illegitimate. Can anyone shed some light on where I might begin looking please? I have managed to trace seven of her eight children, but Joseph McArthur has never been on the radar anywhere - except via his widow Bertha - who received a bequest from James Fitchat's estate. His birth, and also his sister Susan Ann were probably born at Knysna where the parents migrated for labour on a timber plantation in 1862. Does anyone know where Knysna births of that era were registered? The family were strong Presbyterians, and all six subsequent children were baptised at Port Elizabeth Presbyterian Church. Charles McArthur died in 1880 as the result of injuries received in a wagon accident on the farm. In Fitchat's estate papers, at the time of his death, he owned two blocks of land in East London, which were sold by the executors. He was very generous leaving bequests to three of the McArthur siblings. Twenty five and fifty pounds in that era was a lot of cash I understand. Bill Weidner, Creswick Australia

a1b3c1d6e9f3g3h1 Jan Gabriel DE VILLIERS *10.1.1905 ~Wakkerstroom 23.4.1905, tronkbewaarder. X Lichtenburg 2.4.1929 met Jacoba Johanna KORSTEN *14.12.1912. Geskei 25.5.1932 i1 Jurie Johannes Lourens DE VILLIERS *27.12.1929 ~Pietermaritzburg 20.4.1930 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karin Serfontein" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 11:02 AM Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] De Villiers/Korsten help needed please > > > > Dear List, > > I wonder if somebody could help me with information/names regarding the > children of Jan Gabriel de Villiers * 10-1-1905 and Jacoba Johanna Korsten > please. > > Any help will be much appreciated. > > Thank you in advance, > > Kind regards, > > Karin Serfontein. > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 9080 (20131121) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Ellen Johanna Susannah Hillman Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:18:42 +0000 Could anyone please help me find the death/burial of Ellen Hillman nee Swanepoel? She was born Willowmore, Cape Colony 1873, lived in Grahamstown after her marriage in 1892 and last documented at the burial of a child in Calvinia 1901. Her husband Frank (b1865) was last heard of Grahamstown 1903 Voter Roll, her daughter Emeline married Johannes Lottering 1917 East London. The family may have followed their daughter as I am led to believe that Mr. Lottering died in Nylstroom. Kind regardsJudith

Dear List, I wonder if somebody could help me with information/names regarding the children of Jan Gabriel de Villiers * 10-1-1905 and Jacoba Johanna Korsten please. Any help will be much appreciated. Thank you in advance, Kind regards, Karin Serfontein. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9080 (20131121) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

Hi Judith, The East Cape Burial CD has a Frank Hillman 31/5/1864 - 28/2/1950 buried in East Bank Cemetery grave 9B403 in E.L and his wife Anna (short for Johanna ?) is buried in the same grave (not dates), they also had a daughter Roseline Violet who died 9 months old 23/10/1926 and buried in the same cemetery Regards -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of judith kennerdale Sent: 21 November 2013 14:19 To: [email protected] Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Ellen Johanna Susannah Hillman Could anyone please help me find the death/burial of Ellen Hillman nee Swanepoel? She was born Willowmore, Cape Colony 1873, lived in Grahamstown after her marriage in 1892 and last documented at the burial of a child in Calvinia 1901. Her husband Frank (b1865) was last heard of Grahamstown 1903 Voter Roll, her daughter Emeline married Johannes Lottering 1917 East London. The family may have followed their daughter as I am led to believe that Mr. Lottering died in Nylstroom. Kind regardsJudith ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karin, According to the de Villiers book, they were married 2.4.1929 and divorced 25.5.1932 and he remarried three more times. One child is listed: Jurie Johannes Lourens * 27.12.1929 = Pietermaritzburg 20.4.1930 Keith ------ Original Message ------ Received: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 04:03:27 AM EST From: "Karin Serfontein" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: [SOUTH-AFRICA] De Villiers/Korsten help needed please Dear List, I wonder if somebody could help me with information/names regarding the children of Jan Gabriel de Villiers * 10-1-1905 and Jacoba Johanna Korsten please. Any help will be much appreciated. Thank you in advance, Kind regards, Karin Serfontein. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 9080 (20131121) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could anyone please help me find the death/burial of Ellen Hillman nee Swanepoel? She was born Willowmore, Cape Colony 1873, lived in Grahamstown after her marriage in 1892 and last documented at the burial of a child in Calvinia 1901. Her husband Frank (b1865) was last heard of Grahamstown 1903 Voter Roll, her daughter Emeline married Johannes Lottering 1917 East London. The family may have followed their daughter as I am led to believe that Mr. Lottering died in Nylstroom. Kind regardsJudith

On 18 Nov 2013 at 15:44, Milly & Adrian Rowe wrote: > My last reply to your comments relating to the Estate Files being stored in > Pinetown had led me to believe that you were referring to the Deceased Estate > files up to 1974 which are held by the Natal Archives and have been off-site > whilst renovations have been carried out. I copied my email to the Archives > and have just received the following reply from Pieter Nel "We did have > documents at Document Warehouse here in Pietermaritzburg. It was Metro File > who had the fire. We should have most of our documents back at our Repository > by the end of November 2013." > > I was not aware that the PMB Master's office was storing (1975 on) files in > Pinetown as the last time I was there, they were using a building across the > street from their office for storage purposes. Unfortunately I no longer have > a contact in their office to ascertain the present location of their files. I did say specifically that I had been to the Master's Office. It was also difficult at the archives because some files were kept off-site during the renovations, and there was a temporary reading room that was very cramped. But it was the files at the Master's office that I was told were being kept in Pinetown, and that they would have to be ordered a week in advance. It also seemed (though I could not be sure of that), that it was very difficult to gain access to the indexes. In any case it was very crowded, and there was a long queue of people stretching outside the building, so even if one did order the firles, there would be nowhere one could look at them. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: [email protected]

My last reply to your comments relating to the Estate Files being stored in Pinetown had led me to believe that you were referring to the Deceased Estate files up to 1974 which are held by the Natal Archives and have been off-site whilst renovations have been carried out. I copied my email to the Archives and have just received the following reply from Pieter Nel "We did have documents at Document Warehouse here in Pietermaritzburg. It was Metro File who had the fire. We should have most of our documents back at our Repository by the end of November 2013." I was not aware that the PMB Master's office was storing (1975 on) files in Pinetown as the last time I was there, they were using a building across the street from their office for storage purposes. Unfortunately I no longer have a contact in their office to ascertain the present location of their files. Adrian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes Sent: 16 November 2013 08:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SOUTH-AFRICA] Masters Office Estate Files Index (MASETI) On 15 Nov 2013 at 23:05, Keith Meintjes wrote: > The MASETI indexes are here: > > http://www.justice.gov.za/master/m_main.htm > > Near the bottom of the page you will find two links to MASETI DATA. I > am still trying to figure out what to do with it. > > By all accounts, customer service at the Cape Town Master's Office is > non-existent. I have been told not to bother. Back in 2008 we went to the Master's office in Pmb with a list of estate files we wanted to see. They said we would have to apply for them, and come back in a week, because they would have to be ordered from where they were stored, in Pinetown. On my previous visit there, in 2001, there had been no problems, but in 2008 there were queues stretching outside the building. I think the older files were due to be transferred to the archives, but the archives building was being renovated, so there was no point in sending them there. I think something similar is happening in other provinces. Also, in the last 20 years or so, there has been an increase in general prosperity, and so the number of people dying with reportable estates has risen enormously. I suspect that the big change came when most urban black townships switched from rental housing to private ownership. This means that the workload on people at the Masters' offices has increased, but their staff and storage space have not increased to keep up. -- Steve Hayes E-mail: [email protected] Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 Fax: 086-548-2525