Hi JK: Thanks - I was aware of this site, but I understand that it dates the photographs, not when they were first published. And the Frith Collection papers appear to suggest that it is this latter date that matters. Hence my question concerned the dating of postcards, rather than of the photographs. Tim's comments about copyright ownership duration are very helpful, and I tend to agree with his conclusions, if not his final advice. Quoting from the advice I provide to the users of the main section of GENUKI for which I am responsible (Devon) and its associated mailing list: "... the letter of the law is less important than the spirit of the law - only by being careful not to offend the people who possess information, in the various libraries, archives, churches, societies, etc., can we retain their continued cooperation. So when there is any doubt you should request permission beforehand, rather than rely on a narrow and perhaps arguable interpretation of the letter of the law to justify your posting." Thus I would still be interested in knowing how to date Frith postcards, based on the style and format of their printing. Cheers Brian Randell On 21 Feb 2012, at 12:17, J K gen wrote: > This website might help, the serial numbers appear to correspond with > year-dates: > <http://www.oldpicturepostcard.co.uk/dating-frith-postcards.htm> > JK > > On 21 February 2012 11:58, Tim Powys-Lybbe <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 21 Feb at 10:17, Brian Randell <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> I have over the years purchased a few old picture postcards (typically >>> ones published by Francis Frith) at antique fairs, and then have asked >>> (and received) advice as to which ones it would be OK to put online, >>> being out of copyright. >>> >>> Several picture postcard dealers have been able to answer me based on >>> the layout and style of the printing on the back of Frith postcards. >>> Unfortunately I do not recall the details, and was wondering whether >>> anyone here knows, or can point me to a source of such information. (I >>> can't find this information in the pages of the Francis Frith Photo >>> Library, despite all they do say about copyright and dating - their >>> apparent preference being to respond to individual copyright queries.) >> >> The question is who own the copyright. If the photo was taken by >> Francis Frith himself, then he would have owned the copyright and it >> would have survived. in Britain, for 50 years (had he lived a tad longer >> it would have been 70 years) after his death in 1898. So these >> photographs expired in 1948. >> >> But many of the photographs were taken under contract by his staff or by >> sub-contractors. By then he had founded a company and undoubtedly that >> company bought the service and held the copyright. This area of >> commercially commissioned and owned copyright is unclear and I think it >> only lasts for 50 years after the date of first publication. >> >> The firm closed in 1968 and presumably the last of the photographs had >> been taken by then. Any taken by contractors in 1968 would have their >> copyright (under the rule suggested above) expire in 2018. We are now >> in 2012. I would suggest that there are very few photographs left with >> any copyright on them at all. >> >> Publish and be damned? >> >> -- >> Tim Powys-Lybbe [email protected] >> for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell