Adrian, Try looking at handwritten entries in a census or church register, almost any Pickst*** could be thought of as being a variant, it may not actually be a used surname, they could just be a transcription error. Also bear in mind that in earlier days when many people could neither read nor write, or had limited skills, they employed a scribe to write for them. It's easy to see how someone could mishear or forget a surname and enter something similar. The person signing the document may just have been able to scribble an X or even may not have read the paper carefully, and not noticed a variation in the true spelling of the surname. Certainly when looking at my surnames, I always consider many variations as potential relatives until proven otherwise. Happy hunting Pickard Trepess (surname often misspelled even in the 21st century !) (Don't think that Pickard is close enough to Pickstock though !) -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Bruce [mailto:abruce@madasafish.com] Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 6:36 PM To: SOG Mailing List Subject: [SOG-UK] Pickstock and Pickstone name variants? Not for the first time, I have come across Pickstock and Pickstone being presented as variants of the same surname (http://www.namethesaurus.com/Thesaurus/search.aspx has them so, for instance) To be true variants, this would mean to me that a family documented as Pickstock somewhere, over the years, has turned into one documented as Pickstone, possibly over several generations. Or vice versa. (And I discount occasional spelling "errors"). I have no idea whether there is any documented justification for this variant pair or whether someone has simply run through a census, evaluated the Soundex values for surnames and decided that all surnames with minimal difference in their Soundex are variants. I've seen several changes in my families' surnames - Healow ends up as Heler (I think the underlying pronunciation is probably "Healer"), for instance, but I am, in fact, sceptical of this Pickstock / Pickstone change as the "k" sound and the "n" sound are surely quite different. So, does anyone know of any documented justification for either this change or one similar? Or any authoritative work on variants? (Probably too much to expect there, as each would need to be driven on a family by family basis, like my Heler origins). Thanks for any thoughts Adrian

Thanks for your comments. As per your sensible advice, I've taken care to look at the original entries in the PR - my belief would be that if one were an "error" (whatever that means!) for the other, then I'd expect to see the names mixed but there's little serious mixing. (Conversely take "Spode" and "Spord" - the two forms are intermixed in the parish of Sandbach, Cheshire - I guess that's clearly a case of a broad accent being interpreted differently. ) So far as I can see, "Pickstone" occurs sufficiently often and in its own area to remove any possibility of its normal use being a transcription or spelling error for "Pickstock". Doesn't mean the two don't have a common root - but I can find no clear evidence of it. Irene - interested in your Marlborough examples. Seems to me that there are (at least) two major forces at work there - different pronunciations leading to different spellings and a name that does change but where there's clear evidence for it. I don't think my "Pickstock" / "Pickstone" pair satisfy either case. I've discovered no direct evidence (unlike, say, "Billington" / "Billinge" or your "Mallabar" / "Marlborough"). As for different pronunciations of the same root-name, well, the "k" and "n" sounds are surely formed in different parts of the mouth so I find it difficult to believe one shifts into the other. (They might, but maybe it's via a different sound???) (Any contrary examples warmly welcomed!) Chris - interesting - I can't remember coming across "Brickstock" or "Brigstock" for "Pickstock" before. (It is Pickstock that I'm searching, by the way). I think I've tried wild-carding in ways that would pick up "Brickstock" but can't be sure. (I need a number of wild-card searches to find all my variants of the "Pickstock" name). It may be significant that no-one's leaping to the defence of these "alternate forms" databases.... Adrian B

Picking up on some digest comments, for which, thanks. Thanks for the comments from Rainey about the origins of Pickstock and Pickstone. It certainly suggests that the bulk of the two populations have independent origins. However, as Chris points out, that Manchester population of Pickstone (etc), is too close to my Pickstocks of mid-Cheshire to be dogmatic about their independence. I would agree that without hard genealogical evidence, I can only talk in terms of possibilities. Certainly, I can't just say, "John Pickstock is a form of John Pickstone so he is that Pickstone baptism there...." Of course, I *was* secretly hoping that someone would say, "The two names were interchangeable in X in year Y"! For what it's worth, just so people understand my interest: my earliest reference to a Pickstock in *mid* Cheshire is John Pickstock who has his daughter baptised at Davenham, 20 July 1662. The forms "Pickstocke", "Pickstock" and "Pecstocke" are used for his family. A number of online trees identify him with a John Pickstock who marries a Mary Mellburne at Colwich, Staffs, 25 July 1663 and also with a John Pickstock who is baptised to George and Dorothy Pickstock at Myddle, Shropshire on 7 October 1627. All three are real and John of Myddle has the added attraction of appearing in the History of Myddle and doing a runner after he "gott a wench with child". However, while identifying all three as the same person is a legitimate speculation, I personally can't accept it. There appears no logic other than "Same name, same area (roughly), same era". In fact the Shropshire Collection on FMP, throws the whole thing wide open by adding in a John Pickstock baptised 5 April 1635 at Stockton, Shropshire. It also makes no sense that John of Davenham would have a child baptised as legitimate, then, a year later, waltz off to Colwich to get married. Why? Since there are Pickstone / Peckstone families in Cheshire, I wonder if they might have provided our John... Hence my query about the names being variants of Pickstock. Adrian