Geoff Swinfield was invited to attend a small, one-off focus group meeting, with three other users of the certificate ordering system. I wonder if this might have been connected to John's approach by GRO. It was hosted by IPS/GRO representatives on Tuesday (21 Sep). One was from Southport and the others were London-based and weren't so familiar with the specifics of the service. He was by far the heaviest user present (about 20 certs a month). The other three had used the system very little. They seemed to be concerned about why people might not use their online ordering service, eg ordering from local registrars or through intermediaries such as Ancestry and also not ordering at all, perhaps using parish register versions of marriages or just relying on the index entries. The one thing they were very definite about was that their digitisation program (DOVE, MAGPIE etc) is now half complete but will not be continuing because of lack of funding. Recent BMD indexes will continue to be produced on fiche but will not be placed online. Also discussed were the possibility of obtaining cheaper, uncertified copies of historical records (as with ScotlandsPeople) and also the withdrawal of the checking point option. My first thought was that this might have been set up in order to satisfy some IPS obligation to consult. Diana Bouglas Geoff Swinfield Genealogical Services www.gsgs.co.uk http://www.researchlondon.info/ <This really is not a fair comparison. I can't imagine that many applications for probate records are potentially life-saving, if any. There must also be far fewer people affected by the changes to the probate service than would be by a dramatic reduction in A & E services. The reduction in service is, nonetheless, regrettable but also inevitable given the state of government budgets. The real answer is surely to make the probate records, along with BMD certificates, available to download thus eliminating any delays in service. Sadly, this also has a cost which is unlikely to be one that can be met at the moment or in the foreseeable future. That said, I was contacted by the GRO a few months ago regarding possible changes to their certificate service; does anyone know if anything has happened more recently ? John B Leic., Eng >