<<snipped>> My ancestor, George Watson, was buried in Howff Cemetery, Dundee in April 1847. ... However, his burial record on Scotland's People (which shows the original record and is not a transcript) says he died in April 1848! I've asked SP if they can check this, but all they did was to look at the previous and following page, which also says 1848. ... Can anyone tell me what I might find if I order the "Extract" from SP please? ... <<snipped>> 1) Looking at what I presume is the photo of the correct stone (1323) on http://www.dundee-howff.info/images/stones/1323.JPG my personal *guess* is that the most reasonable explanation is that the inscription with 1847 is not contemporary with his death but with a later one. The depth of cutting on the letters and their size *suggests* that at the very least the 1847 and 1853 lines were cut at the same time. Although the provision of a full stop at the end of the top line (1847) does suggest otherwise! Whether the lines were cut with the 1857 line, I don't know - gut feeling says there are slight differences in size and certainly depth, but that might be an effect of the letters being further down the stone so viewed differently. Fundamentally - I'm guessing but we have an anomaly, as you say, to explain. 2) Unless I'm very much mistaken, the SP Extract will consist of no more than the image of the line that you've already seen but done on officially embossed paper to make it a legal record. There is no more to be had, after all. 3) Re Carole's suggestion: "have you checked the cemetery burial registers, rather than Civil Registration??" For those unfamiliar with the workings north of the Border, in 1847/48, Civil Registration had not yet started in Scotland and burial registers are all there is. And in many, many places - not even them. Adrian B
On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 10:33:09 +0100, Tony Coombe <tony_coombe@btinternet.com> wrote: > The simple answer is no. And the more complex answer is ... > Originally the NHS number was the war time National Registration Number > which had numerous forms and mixtures of letters and numbers and > occasionally forward slashes, which sometimes showed family > relationships, and were sometimes not unique. These were replaced in the > 1990s with a ten digit number that is supposedly unique and is now > issued at birth registration. This includes a check digit to ensure > validity of the whole number. There is no "hidden" information that can > be extracted from the number itself. Between rhe war time allocations and 'some later time' then they do have some utility - mine is MCFO 256 which tells me my birth is registered as entry 256 in book MCFO which is allocated to margate (or Thanet, I don't recall what the district was then). > It is no more than a unique identifier. At heart, yes, but for some post-war period, knowledge of someone's NHS number gives a key into the local registrars birth registers. -- Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@weald.org.uk> GENUKI trustee <genuki@weald.org.uk> Pedigree User Group <chairman@pugweb.org.uk> Oxfordshire FHS <webmaster@ofhs.org.uk> FFHS Communications Officer <communications@ffhs.org.uk>
At the time you and I were born, before the coming of the NHS, we were issued with national identity numbers, that then went on to be the NHS number, as following the end of the war,everyone had one. ID cards were not scrapped till the fifties, after the NHS came in. Yours and mine are in 2parts, letters, for the place and date of the registration district of issue, and numbers, very conveniently normally the "entry number" on the birth certificate. Check it if you did not spot this. Mine was Brentford, 3rd quarter of 1943, entry number 365, so BAJR365. From meeting others born in the same district within a year or two, the BA part seems to be related to Brentford, the other two letters seem to change by date. I believe that for "national security" reasons, no "decode" of these letters exists (or perhaps it does but has not been released). I don't know whether anyone has suggested a project to compile the old idcard/NHS letters into a database, before people forget them, on the lines of cardinal points in GRO indexes. Perhaps the 1939 registration database will do this, but I would bet the published version will omit the letters and numbers. For people already living at the time the records were set up in 1939, a different numbering scheme was used, often written as, say, 123.4, where I understand the first bit was the household,the second your place in it. Thus 4th person in household 123. With no check digits, there is no protection against transcription error, but the new system that replaced it in the nineties has such a protection. There is also no handy correspondence with birth certificate, but I was told that males and females could be distinguished, although this may be a myth. On 7 July 2014 10:48:29 "Merryl Wells" <merryl.wells@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Hi, I was born 1944 and given a NHS number that reflected the year or date > on which I was born so was easy for me to remember. However at some point > it was changed, can't remember exactly when but after I left school, so > don't think now it would be of any use for family research purposes. > > From > Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. > E-Mail: merryl.wells@one-name.org > GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <jjgduffus@gmail.com> > To: "sog list" <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:21 AM > Subject: [SOG-UK] NHS Numbers > > > > > > âDear All > > > > I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these > > numbers > > that we literally carry through life. > > > > Is there any good guide to their decoding > > > > Julian Duffus > > > > Sog member 1978 to present > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message
On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 10:33:09 +0100, Tony Coombe <tony_coombe@btinternet.com> wrote: > The simple answer is no. And the more complex answer is ... > Originally the NHS number was the war time National Registration Number > which had numerous forms and mixtures of letters and numbers and > occasionally forward slashes, which sometimes showed family > relationships, and were sometimes not unique. These were replaced in the > 1990s with a ten digit number that is supposedly unique and is now > issued at birth registration. This includes a check digit to ensure > validity of the whole number. There is no "hidden" information that can > be extracted from the number itself. Between rhe war time allocations and 'some later time' then they do have some utility - mine is MCFO 256 which tells me my birth is registered as entry 256 in book MCFO which is allocated to margate (or Thanet, I don't recall what the district was then). > It is no more than a unique identifier. At heart, yes, but for some post-war period, knowledge of someone's NHS number gives a key into the local registrars birth registers. -- Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@weald.org.uk> GENUKI trustee <genuki@weald.org.uk> Pedigree User Group <chairman@pugweb.org.uk> Oxfordshire FHS <webmaster@ofhs.org.uk> FFHS Communications Officer <communications@ffhs.org.uk>
Colin Rogers discusses NHS/National Identity Numbers in his "Tracing missing persons", Manchester UP, 1987. Peter Park Fulwood Lancashire There is no highway when youre looking for the past. -----Original Message----- From: sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jjgduffus@gmail.com Sent: 07 July 2014 08:22 To: sog list Subject: [SOG-UK] NHS Numbers âDear All I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these numbers that we literally carry through life. Is there any good guide to their decoding Julian Duffus Sog member 1978 to present Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Obviously some people never saw the UK TV series The Prisoner and the issue of numbers ! Regards Mike Say On 07/07/2014 13:02, Carole Eales wrote: > Couldn't agree more !! > > I've opted to be fitted with a tracker should senile dementia overtake ! > > Carole > > -----Original Message----- > From: sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On > Behalf Of jjgduffus@gmail.com > Sent: 07 July 2014 12:56 > To: sog list > Subject: [SOG-UK] Unique identifying number > > > Dear All > > I have always thought it sensible for a number to be issued at Birth > > And used throughout life. It could be an school number, library number, > NI > number indeed any interactions with the powers at b would be via the > number. > > Helpfully the banks and credit cards companies could use it as well > > Ideally it would be implanted via chip and checked by hand held reader > > If linked to a GPS system lost children and vulnerable adults could be > tracked and traced > > School truancy would be a thing of the past > > Offender management would be greatly enhanced. > > Many European visitors arrival on our shores without having to bother and > pay for a passport merely showing their national I'd cards. We could save > the trouble of carrying any documentation with a chipped ID number > > Local authorities could have an up to date snapshot shoot off their > populations for planning of schools and health provision. > > Julian Duffus > > Sog member 1978 to present > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Thank you Gerry and Carole - you make some good points which I will certainly check out. Much obliged. Theresa This company (No. 539065) is registered in England and limited by guarantee. Registered office is at the above address. Please Note: All quoted prices exclude VAT and are valid for 30 days unless otherwise stated. All payments are due within 30 days of the date of invoice. This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. -----Original Message----- From: sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of sog-uk-request@rootsweb.com Sent: 07 July 2014 12:59 To: sog-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 88 Today's Topics: 1. NHS Numbers (jjgduffus@gmail.com) 2. Re: NHS Numbers (Tony Coombe) 3. Re: NHS Numbers (Merryl Wells) 4. Re: SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) (Theresa Green) 5. Re: SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) (Carole Eales) 6. Unique identifying number (jjgduffus@gmail.com) 7. Re: SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) (Gerald Newnham (Gmail)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 08:21:48 +0100 From: jjgduffus@gmail.com Subject: [SOG-UK] NHS Numbers To: sog list <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <20140707072148.5849233.90853.2474@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" ?Dear All I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these numbers that we literally carry through life. Is there any good guide to their decoding Julian Duffus Sog member 1978 to present Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 10:33:09 +0100 From: Tony Coombe <tony_coombe@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] NHS Numbers To: sog-uk@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <53BA6955.3050906@btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Julian The simple answer is no. Originally the NHS number was the war time National Registration Number which had numerous forms and mixtures of letters and numbers and occasionally forward slashes, which sometimes showed family relationships, and were sometimes not unique. These were replaced in the 1990s with a ten digit number that is supposedly unique and is now issued at birth registration. This includes a check digit to ensure validity of the whole number. There is no "hidden" information that can be extracted from the number itself. It is no more than a unique identifier. Tony Coombe Retired GP On 07/07/2014 08:21, jjgduffus@gmail.com wrote: > ?Dear All > > I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these numbers > that we literally carry through life. > > Is there any good guide to their decoding > > Julian Duffus > > Sog member 1978 to present > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 10:48:29 +0100 From: "Merryl Wells" <merryl.wells@ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] NHS Numbers To: <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <717CB995310C4E0F88C1091AFB55B7CB@merryl1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Hi, I was born 1944 and given a NHS number that reflected the year or date on which I was born so was easy for me to remember. However at some point it was changed, can't remember exactly when but after I left school, so don't think now it would be of any use for family research purposes. From Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. E-Mail: merryl.wells@one-name.org GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. ----- Original Message ----- From: <jjgduffus@gmail.com> To: "sog list" <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:21 AM Subject: [SOG-UK] NHS Numbers > > ?Dear All > > I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these > numbers > that we literally carry through life. > > Is there any good guide to their decoding > > Julian Duffus > > Sog member 1978 to present > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 11:15:22 +0000 From: Theresa Green <t.green@britglass.co.uk> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) To: "sog-uk@rootsweb.com" <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <539E4B1DFA57C84D98F67C65DD406DC10109BDB9@BGSERVER.glass.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi I've come across an anomaly with regard to the death of an ancestor and wonder if anyone might have a theory as to solving my problem please? My ancestor, George Watson, was buried in Howff Cemetery, Dundee in April 1847. I have a picture of his gravestone and can confirm it is he from several other inscriptions on the tombstone. However, his burial record on Scotland's People (which shows the original record and is not a transcript) says he died in April 1848! I've asked SP if they can check this, but all they did was to look at the previous and following page, which also says 1848. As far as I'm aware, we are not related to Lazarus (though I haven't gone that far back yet)! I'm really puzzled by this but can't imagine the family would not have noticed such an error when the headstone was put up - or equally that the original record is wrong - am I going mad or can anyone think of an explanation please? Can anyone tell me what I might find if I order the "Extract" from SP please? (apparently, there is a 20 day delay due to backlogs, but I'm not sure what it would tell me). Much obliged fellow hunters. Thank you Theresa This company (No. 539065) is registered in England and limited by guarantee. Registered office is at the above address. Please Note: All quoted prices exclude VAT and are valid for 30 days unless otherwise stated. All payments are due within 30 days of the date of invoice. This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:33:00 +0100 From: "Carole Eales" <carole.eales@talktalk.net> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) To: <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <NDENLMAGAOHGCFEEMHLEAEDHHGAA.carole.eales@talktalk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Theresa If the headstone was erected some time after the funeral, it is not uncommon for the relatives to get the date wrong.... if for example, his spouse outlived him for some years and then the family had the stone engraved when she died, it is perfectly possible for them to forget the year... folk tend to remember the day and month far more easily than the year.... time flies ?! The official records are most likely to be correct.... have you checked the cemetery burial registers, rather than Civil Registration ??... the Superintendent at the cemetery might be willing to consult their register for you, since it is such a minor search... Carole -----Original Message----- From: sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Theresa Green Sent: 07 July 2014 12:15 To: sog-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) Hi I've come across an anomaly with regard to the death of an ancestor and wonder if anyone might have a theory as to solving my problem please? My ancestor, George Watson, was buried in Howff Cemetery, Dundee in April 1847. I have a picture of his gravestone and can confirm it is he from several other inscriptions on the tombstone. However, his burial record on Scotland's People (which shows the original record and is not a transcript) says he died in April 1848! I've asked SP if they can check this, but all they did was to look at the previous and following page, which also says 1848. As far as I'm aware, we are not related to Lazarus (though I haven't gone that far back yet)! I'm really puzzled by this but can't imagine the family would not have noticed such an error when the headstone was put up - or equally that the original record is wrong - am I going mad or can anyone think of an explanation please? Can anyone tell me what I might find if I order the "Extract" from SP please? (apparently, there is a 20 day delay due to backlogs, but I'm not sure what it would tell me). Much obliged fellow hunters. Thank you Theresa This company (No. 539065) is registered in England and limited by guarantee. Registered office is at the above address. Please Note: All quoted prices exclude VAT and are valid for 30 days unless otherwise stated. All payments are due within 30 days of the date of invoice. This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:55:35 +0100 From: jjgduffus@gmail.com Subject: [SOG-UK] Unique identifying number To: sog list <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <20140707115535.5849233.70725.2483@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear All I have always thought it sensible for a number to be issued at Birth And used throughout life. It could be an school number, library number, NI number indeed any interactions with the powers at b would be via the number. Helpfully the banks and credit cards companies could use it as well Ideally it would be implanted via chip and checked by hand held reader If linked to a GPS system lost children and vulnerable adults could be tracked and traced School truancy would be a thing of the past Offender management would be greatly enhanced. Many European visitors arrival on our shores without having to bother and pay for a passport merely showing their national I'd cards. We could save the trouble of carrying any documentation with a chipped ID number Local authorities could have an up to date snapshot shoot off their populations for planning of schools and health provision. Julian Duffus Sog member 1978 to present Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:59:09 +0100 From: "Gerald Newnham (Gmail)" <gerrynuk@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) To: "Sog-Uk@Rootsweb.Com" <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <CC220073-CFCB-4B21-8C89-DD9E94AC8B27@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What about checking an independent source such as the local newspaper for an obituary or death notice? Gerry gerrynuk@gmail.com On 7 Jul 2014, at 12:15, Theresa Green <t.green@britglass.co.uk> wrote: > Hi > > I've come across an anomaly with regard to the death of an ancestor and wonder if anyone might have a theory as to solving my problem please? > > My ancestor, George Watson, was buried in Howff Cemetery, Dundee in April 1847. I have a picture of his gravestone and can confirm it is he from several other inscriptions on the tombstone. However, his burial record on Scotland's People (which shows the original record and is not a transcript) says he died in April 1848! I've asked SP if they can check this, but all they did was to look at the previous and following page, which also says 1848. As far as I'm aware, we are not related to Lazarus (though I haven't gone that far back yet)! I'm really puzzled by this but can't imagine the family would not have noticed such an error when the headstone was put up - or equally that the original record is wrong - am I going mad or can anyone think of an explanation please? Can anyone tell me what I might find if I order the "Extract" from SP please? (apparently, there is a 20 day delay due to backlogs, but I'm not sure what it would tell me). > > Much obliged fellow hunters. > Thank you > Theresa > > > > This company (No. 539065) is registered in England and limited by guarantee. > Registered office is at the above address. > > > > Please Note: All quoted prices exclude VAT and are valid for 30 days unless otherwise stated. All payments are due within 30 days of the date of invoice. > > This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. > > Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the SOG-UK list administrator, send an email to SOG-UK-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SOG-UK mailing list, send an email to SOG-UK@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 88 *************************************
Couldn't agree more !! I've opted to be fitted with a tracker should senile dementia overtake ! Carole -----Original Message----- From: sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of jjgduffus@gmail.com Sent: 07 July 2014 12:56 To: sog list Subject: [SOG-UK] Unique identifying number Dear All I have always thought it sensible for a number to be issued at Birth And used throughout life. It could be an school number, library number, NI number indeed any interactions with the powers at b would be via the number. Helpfully the banks and credit cards companies could use it as well Ideally it would be implanted via chip and checked by hand held reader If linked to a GPS system lost children and vulnerable adults could be tracked and traced School truancy would be a thing of the past Offender management would be greatly enhanced. Many European visitors arrival on our shores without having to bother and pay for a passport merely showing their national I'd cards. We could save the trouble of carrying any documentation with a chipped ID number Local authorities could have an up to date snapshot shoot off their populations for planning of schools and health provision. Julian Duffus Sog member 1978 to present Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
What about checking an independent source such as the local newspaper for an obituary or death notice? Gerry gerrynuk@gmail.com On 7 Jul 2014, at 12:15, Theresa Green <t.green@britglass.co.uk> wrote: > Hi > > I've come across an anomaly with regard to the death of an ancestor and wonder if anyone might have a theory as to solving my problem please? > > My ancestor, George Watson, was buried in Howff Cemetery, Dundee in April 1847. I have a picture of his gravestone and can confirm it is he from several other inscriptions on the tombstone. However, his burial record on Scotland's People (which shows the original record and is not a transcript) says he died in April 1848! I've asked SP if they can check this, but all they did was to look at the previous and following page, which also says 1848. As far as I'm aware, we are not related to Lazarus (though I haven't gone that far back yet)! I'm really puzzled by this but can't imagine the family would not have noticed such an error when the headstone was put up - or equally that the original record is wrong - am I going mad or can anyone think of an explanation please? Can anyone tell me what I might find if I order the "Extract" from SP please? (apparently, there is a 20 day delay due to backlogs, but I'm not sure what it would tell me). > > Much obliged fellow hunters. > Thank you > Theresa > > > > This company (No. 539065) is registered in England and limited by guarantee. > Registered office is at the above address. > > > > Please Note: All quoted prices exclude VAT and are valid for 30 days unless otherwise stated. All payments are due within 30 days of the date of invoice. > > This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. > > Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Dear All I have always thought it sensible for a number to be issued at Birth And used throughout life. It could be an school number, library number, NI number indeed any interactions with the powers at b would be via the number. Helpfully the banks and credit cards companies could use it as well Ideally it would be implanted via chip and checked by hand held reader If linked to a GPS system lost children and vulnerable adults could be tracked and traced School truancy would be a thing of the past Offender management would be greatly enhanced. Many European visitors arrival on our shores without having to bother and pay for a passport merely showing their national I'd cards. We could save the trouble of carrying any documentation with a chipped ID number Local authorities could have an up to date snapshot shoot off their populations for planning of schools and health provision. Julian Duffus Sog member 1978 to present Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Hi Theresa If the headstone was erected some time after the funeral, it is not uncommon for the relatives to get the date wrong.... if for example, his spouse outlived him for some years and then the family had the stone engraved when she died, it is perfectly possible for them to forget the year... folk tend to remember the day and month far more easily than the year.... time flies ?! The official records are most likely to be correct.... have you checked the cemetery burial registers, rather than Civil Registration ??... the Superintendent at the cemetery might be willing to consult their register for you, since it is such a minor search... Carole -----Original Message----- From: sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sog-uk-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Theresa Green Sent: 07 July 2014 12:15 To: sog-uk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 87 (new query) Hi I've come across an anomaly with regard to the death of an ancestor and wonder if anyone might have a theory as to solving my problem please? My ancestor, George Watson, was buried in Howff Cemetery, Dundee in April 1847. I have a picture of his gravestone and can confirm it is he from several other inscriptions on the tombstone. However, his burial record on Scotland's People (which shows the original record and is not a transcript) says he died in April 1848! I've asked SP if they can check this, but all they did was to look at the previous and following page, which also says 1848. As far as I'm aware, we are not related to Lazarus (though I haven't gone that far back yet)! I'm really puzzled by this but can't imagine the family would not have noticed such an error when the headstone was put up - or equally that the original record is wrong - am I going mad or can anyone think of an explanation please? Can anyone tell me what I might find if I order the "Extract" from SP please? (apparently, there is a 20 day delay due to backlogs, but I'm not sure what it would tell me). Much obliged fellow hunters. Thank you Theresa This company (No. 539065) is registered in England and limited by guarantee. Registered office is at the above address. Please Note: All quoted prices exclude VAT and are valid for 30 days unless otherwise stated. All payments are due within 30 days of the date of invoice. This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi I've come across an anomaly with regard to the death of an ancestor and wonder if anyone might have a theory as to solving my problem please? My ancestor, George Watson, was buried in Howff Cemetery, Dundee in April 1847. I have a picture of his gravestone and can confirm it is he from several other inscriptions on the tombstone. However, his burial record on Scotland's People (which shows the original record and is not a transcript) says he died in April 1848! I've asked SP if they can check this, but all they did was to look at the previous and following page, which also says 1848. As far as I'm aware, we are not related to Lazarus (though I haven't gone that far back yet)! I'm really puzzled by this but can't imagine the family would not have noticed such an error when the headstone was put up - or equally that the original record is wrong - am I going mad or can anyone think of an explanation please? Can anyone tell me what I might find if I order the "Extract" from SP please? (apparently, there is a 20 day delay due to backlogs, but I'm not sure what it would tell me). Much obliged fellow hunters. Thank you Theresa This company (No. 539065) is registered in England and limited by guarantee. Registered office is at the above address. Please Note: All quoted prices exclude VAT and are valid for 30 days unless otherwise stated. All payments are due within 30 days of the date of invoice. This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.
Hi, I was born 1944 and given a NHS number that reflected the year or date on which I was born so was easy for me to remember. However at some point it was changed, can't remember exactly when but after I left school, so don't think now it would be of any use for family research purposes. From Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. E-Mail: merryl.wells@one-name.org GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. ----- Original Message ----- From: <jjgduffus@gmail.com> To: "sog list" <sog-uk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:21 AM Subject: [SOG-UK] NHS Numbers > > âDear All > > I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these > numbers > that we literally carry through life. > > Is there any good guide to their decoding > > Julian Duffus > > Sog member 1978 to present > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message
Julian The simple answer is no. Originally the NHS number was the war time National Registration Number which had numerous forms and mixtures of letters and numbers and occasionally forward slashes, which sometimes showed family relationships, and were sometimes not unique. These were replaced in the 1990s with a ten digit number that is supposedly unique and is now issued at birth registration. This includes a check digit to ensure validity of the whole number. There is no "hidden" information that can be extracted from the number itself. It is no more than a unique identifier. Tony Coombe Retired GP On 07/07/2014 08:21, jjgduffus@gmail.com wrote: > âDear All > > I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these numbers > that we literally carry through life. > > Is there any good guide to their decoding > > Julian Duffus > > Sog member 1978 to present > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
âDear All I was. Just wondering if there is a wealth of hidden info in these numbers that we literally carry through life. Is there any good guide to their decoding Julian Duffus Sog member 1978 to present Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
I recently experienced exactly what Peter describes. I was asked to take part in the later stages of testing an upgrade to the accounting software I use. I was connected to the development team via a weblink whilst they watched me use the new software for the first time. When I got confused or made mistakes they would ask me what I was trying to do and what I expected to happen. There is nothing like seeing your software through a first time user's eyes. I was impressed by their approach - especially when they followed up by sending me a box of posh chocolates and a Moleskine notebook! Caroline Gurney On 5 July 2014 11:25, Peter at LostCousins <peter@lostcousins.com> wrote: > To add to what Adrian has said, one of the problems with beta testers is that they can become > so familiar with a program or a website that they're no longer able to see it as a new user would. > > When I was in the software business I would introduce new testers during the later stages of > development to overcome this problem. I don't know whether findmypast followed this strategy - > possibly not given their surprise at how the new site was received when it went live. > > Peter
To add to what Adrian has said, one of the problems with beta testers is that they can become so familiar with a program or a website that they're no longer able to see it as a new user would. When I was in the software business I would introduce new testers during the later stages of development to overcome this problem. I don't know whether findmypast followed this strategy - possibly not given their surprise at how the new site was received when it went live. Peter > <<snipped>> > Why on earth didn't they release a Beta version? I really can't > understand how they thought the site was acceptable. > <<snipped>> > > They did release a Beta version to Beta testers. Firstly the basic > platform is what FMP used for their worldwide (i.e. non-UK) > collections. The Beta version was released to certain testers because > I've seen posts that said "In the upcoming version..." The new screens > were also demonstrated at WDYTYA Live and were allegedly well > received. > > I would *guess* that the demo screens were only the detailed > interrogation screens, which are *generally* more powerful than their > predecessors. I would also *guess* that what was not well tested was > the navigation between the detailed screens. > > It's also interesting to note that the infamous (and impractical) > census-search-by-birthplace is sabotaged not by poor coding but by the > original data, which is chaotic in the extreme. Interestingly one or > two of the censuses worked quite well with the current code, when I > tried them, suggesting that not all areas of all censuses are as > chaotic as the 1881 (say). > > Adrian B
<<snipped>> Why on earth didn't they release a Beta version? I really can't understand how they thought the site was acceptable. <<snipped>> They did release a Beta version to Beta testers. Firstly the basic platform is what FMP used for their worldwide (i.e. non-UK) collections. The Beta version was released to certain testers because I've seen posts that said "In the upcoming version..." The new screens were also demonstrated at WDYTYA Live and were allegedly well received. I would *guess* that the demo screens were only the detailed interrogation screens, which are *generally* more powerful than their predecessors. I would also *guess* that what was not well tested was the navigation between the detailed screens. It's also interesting to note that the infamous (and impractical) census-search-by-birthplace is sabotaged not by poor coding but by the original data, which is chaotic in the extreme. Interestingly one or two of the censuses worked quite well with the current code, when I tried them, suggesting that not all areas of all censuses are as chaotic as the 1881 (say). Adrian B
All very interesting! At least the SoG have been honest about their situation. According to FMP's weekly statement; "While our development team work on site functionality and features, our dedicated search optimisation team is continually working to improve our record set search screens, providing a bespoke search for each and every record set on our site. It’s a big job; they are working their way steadily through the hundreds of record sets on the site. The team are currently focusing on birth, marriage and death records, standardising search options and free results, then reviewing, testing and implementing them to give you the best chance of finding your ancestor in our records. To date, the team have completed 45% of UK record sets." Shouldn't all this have been done before the new platform was released? Three months down the road and less than half the record sets have been 'optimised'! It beggars belief - this is not a free site. Why on earth didn't they release a Beta version? I really can't understand how they thought the site was acceptable. On 4 July 2014 20:05, Rosemary Morgan <rosemarymorgan@btopenworld.com> wrote: > In case anyone is interested, I believe TNA are in a similar position to > SoG (regarding potential loss of income) and maybe they have more clout. > But I believe they have been campaigning hard behind the scenes to get FMP > to understand the seriousness of the situation and ensure that users are > able to adequately search the records. > > Rosemary > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 4 Jul 2014, at 19:31, "Lin & David" <lin@boots1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > > For information: > > > > > > > > As suggested I contacted Else Churchill about the non response to my > earlier > > email to the Chief Exec concerning the FMP. I am pleased to have now > > received a reply from June Perrin and include it below in case it is of > > interest to others on the list. > > > > > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > From: June Perrin [ <mailto:ceo@sog.org.uk> mailto:ceo@sog.org.uk] > > Sent: 04 July 2014 12:30 > > To: 'Lin & David' > > Subject: Findmypast > > > > > > > > Dear Lin > > > > > > > > I am emailing regarding your original query re Findmypast and the > changes to > > their software. > > > > > > > > First let me apologise for not replying earlier. I did actually act on > your > > first email and I discussed it at the Trustee meeting in April and > contacted > > Findmypast. However when I returned to my emails to reply I had failed > to > > put a flag on the email and didn't find it. I do receive a huge number > of > > emails so this is not as lame as it sounds but I was rather silly in not > > setting the flag on it so I apologise wholeheartedly. > > > > > > > > Our position with Findmypast is a commercial one but there is very > little we > > can do about the new systems apart from add our own concerns to the list. > > The income we receive from the contract is not easily replaceable for the > > Society as we often run in deficit due to our high running costs so we > would > > not withdraw our data. Findmypast are not likely to return to their old > > systems so all we can do is continue to give feedback on how the new one > > needs improving. > > > > > > > >> From my own observation Findmypast are listening and trying to make > > improvements but how quickly this can happen when they are adding so much > > new data is not clear. We did also hold a training day for the new > system > > here at the Society and hopefully will add more training days as they > make > > improvements. > > > > > > > > I am sorry to not be able to help more. > > > > > > > > Kind Regards > > > > June > > > > > > > > > > > > June Perrin > > > > Chief Executive > > > > Society of Genealogists > > 14 Charterhouse Buildings, London EC1M 7BA > > Registered Charity No. 233701 Company Limited by Guarantee Registered > > No.115703 > > > > This email and any attachments are confidential and intended for the > > addressee only. You must not use, disclose, reproduce, copy or distribute > > the contents of this communication unless explicitly permitted to do so. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and then > > delete this email from your system without further distribution or > > use. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From: Lin & David [mailto:lin@boots1.demon.co.uk] > > Sent: 04 July 2014 19:24 > > To: 'June Perrin' > > Cc: genealogy@sog.org.uk > > Subject: RE: Findmypast > > > > > > > > Dear June > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply which is appreciated. I quite understand about > the > > deluge of emails you no doubt have to cope with! Thanks too to Else for > her > > very prompt acknowledgement of my most recent email. > > > > > > > > I am glad to learn that you raised the concerns I, and many other members > > had, with the Trustees and note that contact has been made with the FMP. > > The SOG's pragmatic response seems reasonable in view of the financial > > constraints in which it has to work. Only time will tell whether the > FMP's > > system will return to its previous comparatively high standard. > > > > > > > > As I referred to your apparent lack of response on the members' forum, I > > hope you will not mind my forwarding a copy of your email to that list > for > > members' information. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
In case anyone is interested, I believe TNA are in a similar position to SoG (regarding potential loss of income) and maybe they have more clout. But I believe they have been campaigning hard behind the scenes to get FMP to understand the seriousness of the situation and ensure that users are able to adequately search the records. Rosemary Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Jul 2014, at 19:31, "Lin & David" <lin@boots1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > For information: > > > > As suggested I contacted Else Churchill about the non response to my earlier > email to the Chief Exec concerning the FMP. I am pleased to have now > received a reply from June Perrin and include it below in case it is of > interest to others on the list. > > > > Lin > > > > From: June Perrin [ <mailto:ceo@sog.org.uk> mailto:ceo@sog.org.uk] > Sent: 04 July 2014 12:30 > To: 'Lin & David' > Subject: Findmypast > > > > Dear Lin > > > > I am emailing regarding your original query re Findmypast and the changes to > their software. > > > > First let me apologise for not replying earlier. I did actually act on your > first email and I discussed it at the Trustee meeting in April and contacted > Findmypast. However when I returned to my emails to reply I had failed to > put a flag on the email and didn't find it. I do receive a huge number of > emails so this is not as lame as it sounds but I was rather silly in not > setting the flag on it so I apologise wholeheartedly. > > > > Our position with Findmypast is a commercial one but there is very little we > can do about the new systems apart from add our own concerns to the list. > The income we receive from the contract is not easily replaceable for the > Society as we often run in deficit due to our high running costs so we would > not withdraw our data. Findmypast are not likely to return to their old > systems so all we can do is continue to give feedback on how the new one > needs improving. > > > >> From my own observation Findmypast are listening and trying to make > improvements but how quickly this can happen when they are adding so much > new data is not clear. We did also hold a training day for the new system > here at the Society and hopefully will add more training days as they make > improvements. > > > > I am sorry to not be able to help more. > > > > Kind Regards > > June > > > > > > June Perrin > > Chief Executive > > Society of Genealogists > 14 Charterhouse Buildings, London EC1M 7BA > Registered Charity No. 233701 Company Limited by Guarantee Registered > No.115703 > > This email and any attachments are confidential and intended for the > addressee only. You must not use, disclose, reproduce, copy or distribute > the contents of this communication unless explicitly permitted to do so. > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and then > delete this email from your system without further distribution or > use. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Lin & David [mailto:lin@boots1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 04 July 2014 19:24 > To: 'June Perrin' > Cc: genealogy@sog.org.uk > Subject: RE: Findmypast > > > > Dear June > > > > Thank you for your reply which is appreciated. I quite understand about the > deluge of emails you no doubt have to cope with! Thanks too to Else for her > very prompt acknowledgement of my most recent email. > > > > I am glad to learn that you raised the concerns I, and many other members > had, with the Trustees and note that contact has been made with the FMP. > The SOG's pragmatic response seems reasonable in view of the financial > constraints in which it has to work. Only time will tell whether the FMP's > system will return to its previous comparatively high standard. > > > > As I referred to your apparent lack of response on the members' forum, I > hope you will not mind my forwarding a copy of your email to that list for > members' information. > > > > Regards > > Lin > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message