I used to know a Peter Amsden that was involved in the Bond Business many years ago. Any connection? Regards Mike -----Original Message----- From: Peter Amsden [mailto:amsden@btinternet.com] Sent: 29 March 2005 15:24 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SoG] Use of cameras at the National Archives, Kew. Someone raised the question recently about the the type of cameras that were allowed in the archives at Kew. I felt that the information was misleading since whilst it permitted SLRs and digital cameras, there was no mention of non-SLR cameras. I qeuried this with the Public Services Department, and the reply from the head of the department is below. I find it interesting that whilst 'beeping' is deemed annoying, they have not taken account of the noise that some SLRs make. My Nikon is enough to scare the birds away! Peter Amsden, Argyll, Scotland ASAT Productions: http://www.asat.biz Researching Amsden World Wide Outline History: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~amsden Books I have written: http://www.btinternet.com/~amsden AllExperts: http://www.allexperts.com/displayExpert.asp?Expert=38044 Never dump originals - they may be all that is left after the computer age. Reply from NA ________ You are correct that it is an oversight in out current policy, which we are currently rewriting. We permit any type of handheld still camera, providing it can be operated without flash, and without audible bleeps. The one exception to this is cameras which are contained in mobile telephones, which are not permitted in our reading rooms. I hope this answers your query. Yours sincerely Lee M. Oliver Head of Public Services Development The National Archives Kew

Someone raised the question recently about the the type of cameras that were allowed in the archives at Kew. I felt that the information was misleading since whilst it permitted SLRs and digital cameras, there was no mention of non-SLR cameras. I qeuried this with the Public Services Department, and the reply from the head of the department is below. I find it interesting that whilst 'beeping' is deemed annoying, they have not taken account of the noise that some SLRs make. My Nikon is enough to scare the birds away! Peter Amsden, Argyll, Scotland ASAT Productions: http://www.asat.biz Researching Amsden World Wide Outline History: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~amsden Books I have written: http://www.btinternet.com/~amsden AllExperts: http://www.allexperts.com/displayExpert.asp?Expert=38044 Never dump originals - they may be all that is left after the computer age. Reply from NA ________ You are correct that it is an oversight in out current policy, which we are currently rewriting. We permit any type of handheld still camera, providing it can be operated without flash, and without audible bleeps. The one exception to this is cameras which are contained in mobile telephones, which are not permitted in our reading rooms. I hope this answers your query. Yours sincerely Lee M. Oliver Head of Public Services Development The National Archives Kew

I'd welcome information on where to send a report of a problem with the "Digest" mode of this (and similar) facilities. I use Turnpike OLR and have reported my problem there, with a couple of responses to the effect that those users don't experience the problem that I see. So I turn to what I guess is the next logical step - the "Digest" process. The problem is that clicking "Next Part" sometimes produces inconsistent stepping through the digest - see for example V05 #53, where four examples of that occur here, a bit of a record in my experience, and a long standing problem. -- Michael J Kingston - Researching Family History News of surname DIGWEED always welcomed < Remove my initials from the "To:" address field when replying >

Many thanks for all the replies which have solved a lot of my problems. re the comments about Broadband - we await the arrival of Rural Mesh or Wimax - no conventional Broadband here (rural Kent) as the 'phone wires are made of aluminium and it only works with copper wires.

This gadget seems a bit odd at first glance, but maybe it might have some use in scanning books - especially, as Phil had in mind, in repositories where basic but efficiently fast data-gathering combined with portability and flexibility are higher up on the agenda than making a faithful image, free of distortion and shadows, of the original page. It has a stablemate, the Scanjet 4600, which though also see-through is described as a flatbed (the 4670 is called a 'vertical' scanner). Both share almost identical specs, including 24oodpi resolution and 48-bit colour depth. They seem to be designed with speed and convenience in mind, as scans are quoted at 6 and under 6 seconds respectively (but at what resolution?), and I can well see the benefits in being able to se the original doc through the scanner window as one lines the two up together. Though it scans a standard A4 area, it apparently comes with software that allows composite 'panoramas' to be compiled, which would make scanning old maps, for example, feel very natural and responsive, though the alignment of contiguous map segments would no doubt be haphazard to say the least, unless some sort of robotic arm was used to place the scanner with presicion each time - while the robot's grabbers no doubt punched holes in the map in the process! The 4670 retails for about £150 in the UK. More details of both models are on the HP website at: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/ho/WF02a/5043-5683-5687.html. Lawrence. -----Original Message----- From: Jan Gow (by way of Geoffrey <lists@sog.org.uk>) [mailto:jangow@beehivebooks.co.nz] Have you seen the HP 4670 scanner?... With this scanner and a notebook computer - wow!! Jan in New Zealand > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Warn [mailto:philwarn@ntlworld.com] > > > Hi gang,... > > The devices I have seen contain some local memory and I do not mind having > to "stitch" together images to from an A4 page before OCR'ing the image so > formed. > > Apart from a few pictures and a couple of hand drawn Coats of Arms, the > rest is text. > > I see a hand held device as not having any ill effect on the spine, etc... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005

If anyone wishes to see an illustration showing this Plustec scanner 'in action' with a book balanced precariously on its edge, then have a look at the review on page 67 of April's 'Your Family Tree.' Though the article's photo shows a modern paperback being scanned, its spine is nevertheless very painfully creased along its length and the binding must have been ripped apart to achieve this. I must say that Rod confirms the doubts I felt this article raised, especially when the reviewer says that "it's much easier to photocopy a book by bending it around the scanner edge" (though to be fair to the article its main subject is the scanning of old photos, and this scanner's speciality is very briefly cited as one example of the more exotic types of scanner that exist). However, I would also be concerned that the book's centre of mass, when being scanned on the Optimax, could end up either above the scanner or above thin air, or anywhere in between, depending on how far the 'photocopying' process had progressed through the book's pages; it seems rather likely to me that a book unsupported in this way could very easily decide to boldly declare something like "To Eternity - and BEYOND!" (or the floor at least). All in all, I wonder exactly what market this scanner is aimed at - surely the mass-pirating of the latest paperbacks isn't going to take over from music and video copying - is it? Then again, maybe now I can afford those expensive local history titles, if I keep a scanned printout and resell the original book on eBay! Happy easter y'all, Lawrence. -----Original Message----- From: Rod Neep [mailto:rkpn@british-genealogy.com] Sent: 26 March 2005 12:22 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SoG] Scanning an old book In message <3lk041tdehup96mgsp5p6mg04qspfbagm4@4ax.com>, John Addis-Smith <genl@addisgen.com> writes >Another alternative would be the Plustek Optibook 3600 >book scanner, which scans to the edge of the platen which can be >placed up to the inner edge of a page. A little expensive at £233.83 >(incl VAT) via the National Archivist web site: > >http://shop.nationalarchivist.com/acatalog/Products_Book_Scanner_37.htm l >where there is a description and photograph. If the rest of the book >was carefully supported and it was not too tightly bound, it should >not be damaged . . . > >This would make a good addition to the SoG library if someone would >sponsor it! All that is, is a flatbed scanner that will scan to the edge of the platten area. It still requires considerable man handling of the book. Old and valuable books will certainly be damaged by using it. Any books that are already weak at the binding will be destroyed by using it. Having had the pleasure of scanning several hundred of the Society's books over the last few weeks, I can assure everyone that use of such a scanner would have resulted in many of those (already weak) books being in extremely worse for the wear condition. An overhead book scanner is the only realistic option, as the book sits in its normal relaxed position, and only the pages are turned, without it having to be picked up and stressed for each page scan. Regards Rod -- Rod Neep Archive CD Books : http://www.archivecdbooks.org with the surname Dudley, but in all their births their parents are listed as literally William and Sarah Dudley alias Bright. Even William's burial entry is listed as "William Dudley alias Bright". Can anyone tell me what this might mean? The only thing I can think of is that he was illegitimate and sometimes goes by his father's surname and other times by his mother's. Many thanks for any suggestions. Sylvia > > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 23/03/2005

In message of 26 Mar, Rod Neep <rkpn@british-genealogy.com> wrote: > In message <3lk041tdehup96mgsp5p6mg04qspfbagm4@4ax.com>, John > Addis-Smith <genl@addisgen.com> writes > >Another alternative would be the Plustek Optibook 3600 > >book scanner, which scans to the edge of the platen which can be > >placed up to the inner edge of a page. A little expensive at £233.83 > >(incl VAT) via the National Archivist web site: > > > >http://shop.nationalarchivist.com/acatalog/Products_Book_Scanner_37.html > >where there is a description and photograph. If the rest of the book > >was carefully supported and it was not too tightly bound, it should > >not be damaged . . . > > > >This would make a good addition to the SoG library if someone would > >sponsor it! > > All that is, is a flatbed scanner that will scan to the edge of the > platten area. > > It still requires considerable man handling of the book. Old and > valuable books will certainly be damaged by using it. Any books that are > already weak at the binding will be destroyed by using it. But won't the damage be less than the existing practices? > Having had the pleasure of scanning several hundred of the Society's > books over the last few weeks, I can assure everyone that use of such a > scanner would have resulted in many of those (already weak) books being > in extremely worse for the wear condition. > > An overhead book scanner is the only realistic option, as the book sits > in its normal relaxed position, and only the pages are turned, without > it having to be picked up and stressed for each page scan. Perhaps we need a very rich donor to present one of those to the society instead of allowing books to continue to be damaged on the photocopiers? -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

In message of 26 Mar, "Jan Gow" <jangow@beehivebooks.co.nz> (by way of Geoffrey <lists@sog.org.uk>) wrote: > XP has a compatibility tab. Locate the Generations folder in windows > explorer. Then locate the .exe file. click to highlight this and then > right click and then click on properties. Click on the Compatibility > tab and tell XP to run this program as Win 98. Usually is fine. Nice. > But might be an idea to work towards changing to a program that is > being updated. The problem here is finding a program that will accept the existing data without loss. GEDCOM transfer is no good if you have added any user fields. There are only two methods that can work from Generations that leave no loss, one is to use TMG's GenBridge import (though TMG has a high learning curve), the other is to buy a Mac and use Reunion on the Mac. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Jan Thanks for the suggestion. I now have a patch for chart which cures the problem. Thanks anyway. Peter At 15:34 26/03/2005, you wrote: >XP has a compatibility tab. Locate the Generations folder in windows >explorer. Then locate the .exe file. click to highlight this and then right >click and then click on properties. Click on the Compatibility tab and tell >XP to run this program as Win 98. Usually is fine. > >But might be an idea to work towards changing to a program that is being >updated. > >Jan >in New Zealand > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ken Mycock" <ken.mycock@ukonline.co.uk> >To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:28 AM >Subject: Re: [SoG] Drawing Family Trees > > > > The charting package in Reunion/ generations is actually Treedraw, which > > is available separately, XP compatible. > > > > When I had this problem, I abandoned Reunion and moved all my data to > > Legacy with no problems and now use treedraw Legacy, which reads the > > Legacy files direct, with no need for an intermediate gedcom. > > > > Ken > > > > Peter Abbott wrote: > > > > > I have been using Generations 8.5 for sometime (originally as reunion > > > on a mac). I like the features of the chart program. I am now using > > > Windows XP Pro and the colour translation to a printer does not work > > > and the chart program is unusable. I cannot go back to an earlier > > > operating system. I have posted a message on the forum and others are > > > having the same problem. As far as I know the software is not be > > > maintained or updated and no fixes are available. > > > > > > Does anyone know of software that works similar to the Chart program > > > in Generations. I have tried Rootsmagic demo and it will not import my > > > flags and notes at present. The chart features would be acceptable if > > > I could guarantee to import all of the fields from my GEDCOM file. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Peter > > > > ______________________________ > > >This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos >anti-virus technology

XP has a compatibility tab. Locate the Generations folder in windows explorer. Then locate the .exe file. click to highlight this and then right click and then click on properties. Click on the Compatibility tab and tell XP to run this program as Win 98. Usually is fine. But might be an idea to work towards changing to a program that is being updated. Jan in New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Mycock" <ken.mycock@ukonline.co.uk> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [SoG] Drawing Family Trees > The charting package in Reunion/ generations is actually Treedraw, which > is available separately, XP compatible. > > When I had this problem, I abandoned Reunion and moved all my data to > Legacy with no problems and now use treedraw Legacy, which reads the > Legacy files direct, with no need for an intermediate gedcom. > > Ken > > Peter Abbott wrote: > > > I have been using Generations 8.5 for sometime (originally as reunion > > on a mac). I like the features of the chart program. I am now using > > Windows XP Pro and the colour translation to a printer does not work > > and the chart program is unusable. I cannot go back to an earlier > > operating system. I have posted a message on the forum and others are > > having the same problem. As far as I know the software is not be > > maintained or updated and no fixes are available. > > > > Does anyone know of software that works similar to the Chart program > > in Generations. I have tried Rootsmagic demo and it will not import my > > flags and notes at present. The chart features would be acceptable if > > I could guarantee to import all of the fields from my GEDCOM file. > > > > Thanks > > > > Peter > > ______________________________ This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos anti-virus technology

In message <3lk041tdehup96mgsp5p6mg04qspfbagm4@4ax.com>, John Addis-Smith <genl@addisgen.com> writes >Another alternative would be the Plustek Optibook 3600 >book scanner, which scans to the edge of the platen which can be >placed up to the inner edge of a page. A little expensive at £233.83 >(incl VAT) via the National Archivist web site: > >http://shop.nationalarchivist.com/acatalog/Products_Book_Scanner_37.html >where there is a description and photograph. If the rest of the book >was carefully supported and it was not too tightly bound, it should >not be damaged . . . > >This would make a good addition to the SoG library if someone would >sponsor it! All that is, is a flatbed scanner that will scan to the edge of the platten area. It still requires considerable man handling of the book. Old and valuable books will certainly be damaged by using it. Any books that are already weak at the binding will be destroyed by using it. Having had the pleasure of scanning several hundred of the Society's books over the last few weeks, I can assure everyone that use of such a scanner would have resulted in many of those (already weak) books being in extremely worse for the wear condition. An overhead book scanner is the only realistic option, as the book sits in its normal relaxed position, and only the pages are turned, without it having to be picked up and stressed for each page scan. Regards Rod -- Rod Neep Archive CD Books : http://www.archivecdbooks.org

Have you seen the HP 4670 scanner? Is a frame which you can place over a book (or whatever you want to scan) or hold against something on a wall, or hold above what you want to scan. Or place single sheets in the frame. Has OCR software. Is very light and easy to carry around with you. Has the attachment for scanning slides too. I am in the process of scanning our OE (0verseas Experience) slides from the 1960s. With this scanner and a notebook computer - wow!! Jan in New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Smith" <richard@torrington.demon.co.uk> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 4:02 AM Subject: RE: [SoG] Scanning an old book > I have digitally photographed the pages of an old book and put the result > though OCR software and finished up with an MSWord document, I hope this > helps > Richard > > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Warn [mailto:philwarn@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 22 March 2005 14:37 > To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SoG] Scanning an old book > > > Hi gang, > > Generally, you are a very knowledgeable lot! > > Could some one suggest whether a hand held scanner would the best bet for > scanning an old book? > > I do not like the idea of using a flat bed scanner because of the fragility > of this 94 year old book about the Warne Family in America. > > The devices I have seen contain some local memory and I do not mind having > to "stitch" together images to from an A4 page before OCR'ing the image so > formed. > > Apart from a few pictures and a couple of hand drawn Coats of Arms, the > rest is text. > > I see a hand held device as not having any ill effect on the spine, etc. > > I want to be able to produce a Word Document or PDF file from the scanned > images of the pages. > > Any thoughts would be most welcome. > > Has any one used a digital camera for this purpose, for example? > > Many thanks > > Phil. > This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos anti-virus technology

In message of 25 Mar, webmaster@sog.org.uk wrote: > All the talk of donating reminds me that you may have missed the addition > of the ability to make a donation on-line via SoG Orderline > > www.sog.org.org/acatalog/ http://www.sog.org.uk/acatalog/ -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

All the talk of donating reminds me that you may have missed the addition of the ability to make a donation on-line via SoG Orderline www.sog.org.org/acatalog/ there is an option for UK residents who pay tax to make the donation under the gift aid arrangements thus adding 28p for each pound donated. Alternatively you can send a cheque. To put your minds at rest (!) we do have an IT purchasing policy, have standardised on one printer manufacturer's range of products where this is the best solution, and try and re-use systems when there is the budget to buy new. One major breakthrough during closed week was the removal of the PC's running Windows 95. Chris Broomfield, Webmaster, Society of Genealogists, London webmaster@sog.org.uk www.sog.org.uk On-line retail shopping? Use www.buy.at/genealogists our affiliate shop and SoG gains funds at no cost to you

Dear fellow Soggies, May I thank those who made valuable suggestions to me about my 94 year old book? I have been made an offer which I cannot refuse from a FHS in the Home Counties. It is to use a book scanner which will not damage the book's spine. I am truly grateful to the contact for that offer. It would be invidious to name that society until full details have ben worked out. At some later stage I will approach one of the Society's Vice Presidents who works for part of TNA to see if the ban on the use of a table top stand for a digital camera could be lifted, and if necessary will come back to you all for support for my idea. Incidentally, I did use TNA complaint's procedure to ask for the actual figures for the WW1 Medal cards that had useful info on them and the statistical breakdown for the claimed percentage, alas, I got no reply to my contact. Many thanks, Phil.

In message of 24 Mar, Peter Amsden <amsden@btinternet.com> wrote: <snip> > I have now forgotten what it was that we were talking about in the > first place. Ah! Now I remember, someone wanted to scan an old book, > and a number of perfectly sensible answers were provided. So why are > we still discussing it? The attraction is that this scanner promises to reduce the damage to books caused by pressing down on the spine to get a half-decent copy. These old books are the life-blood of the society, its prized assets, and anything to preserve them must be a Good Thing. That is why two of us have already offered financial support for a project to try it out. Are there any more who might join in? -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

In message of 24 Mar, Phil Warn <philwarn@ntlworld.com> wrote: <snip> > I for one would be most willing to put £50.00 towards this scanner if > otheras would join me. <snip> I would join with this. Further if such donations are made as gift aid, the society would also recover the base rate income tax we have paid, in other words up to another £14 for each £50 thrown in. Further if we should happen to pay higher rate tax, we get a refund of that which sounds like £14 from Her Majesty. It might be appropriate for such higher rate payers then to add that £14 to the donation? (Someone else might confirm my sums, I'm not quite sure I am on firm soil here.) In the first instance I would suggest that only a trial project is run. This should be at a lesser cost - some kit might be hired or loaned by the potential supplier, reducing the trial costs. Such a trial should include members using the kit for their comments to see what they thought vis-a-vis photocopiers. Finally might I propose that if there seems to be enough cash promised, that we then ask the two computer gurus on the Trustee Board to cost the project according to their standards and that they take it forward from there? -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

> From: Phil Warn <philwarn@ntlworld.com> > Reply-To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:33:15 +0000 > > Hi Tim, John, > > Is this a private battle between two mature (?) men or can any one join in? Yes, very private and no one is allowed to join in or it will go one and on and on and on and . . . . . I have now forgotten what it was that we were talking about in the first place. Ah! Now I remember, someone wanted to scan an old book, and a number of perfectly sensible answers were provided. So why are we still discussing it? Subject line should now be changed to 'Grumpy Old Men'. Peter Amsden Argyll, Scotland

Hi Tim, John, Is this a private battle between two mature (?) men or can any one join in? If the Powers That Be in the Society would approve it, could not several of us put in our money to sponsor this? [ I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a meeting in which JAS participates as it would be worth the membership fee to be there judging by John's outbursts on List ] I had hoped that when I joined the Society several years' ago, that it would be run democratically for the benefit of ALL members. Sadly, it seems o be run by several members who seem to be out for the Publicity, and then throw their toys out of the proverbial pram when they do not get their own way. That is a great pity. I know that TPL and MH are no longer on the Executive, but TPL must know something about how it is run. I for one would be most willing to put £50.00 towards this scanner if otheras would join me. Regrettably I am in a Catch 22 situation as far as volunteering is concerned. My offer to help when I could (at home() has been rejected because I cannot be trusted so to do This despite having signed the Official Secrets Act some 5 times and being my local FHSs Computer Librarian and having the keys to a Heritage Centre,. [ IF I am able to get to the next AGM i intend to raise this as a Major Issue ] Equally, when the Genealogical Officer bemoaned the fact that she was overloaded, in an email to her I made a constructive suggestion, sadly I received no reply to it. What more has one to do to be helpful, I wonder? Phil. Disappointed of Orpington, Kent . . At 22:11 24/03/2005, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >But there is still the intriguing suggestion that someone should sponsor >this scanner. Does anyone else think it is worthwhile sponsoring? If >so, speak up as otherwise the whole thing might vanish into thin air!

In message of 24 Mar, John Addis-Smith <genl@addisgen.com> wrote: > I do not have the time to waste replying in too much detail to Tim > P-L's long winded reply, with most of which I totally disagree! The object of this mailing list is to discuss things. So I continue. > Visions of putting up straw men come to mind . . . You suggested a particular piece of kit. I looked it up on the internet. I don't think that was a straw man. > > I shall make the following points: > > 1. Tim assumes that the new scanner plus PC and printer would be used > as a replacement for one or more photocopiers ("could go where the > photocopiers now are"). I deliberately made no such assumption. Apart > from the fact that this is only an A4 scanner and the photocopiers > take up to A3 size originals, the concept of the PC illiterate (as > many library users still are) let loose on such a setup as he suggests > would be a recipe for disaster!. No, a more realistic use of such a > scanner would be for staff and volunteer use, perhaps scanning books > for CD-ROM or online access. My best case scenario could then apply. I thought the object of the kit was to reduce damage to books. the existing photocopiers obviously damage the books by the need to press gently (or firmly) on the spines to get a usable photocopy. So I assumed the photocopiers should be thrown out. If they are not thrown out, I cannot see many people bothering with a perhaps more cumbersome piece of kit. So the cost would be wasted. Mind you I am not sure, even, that the use of these scanners would be practical. It would require some trials on site by ordinary members to see what the response would be. There's a thought: could not a trial be sponsored as I'm sure some money would be needed to do this. > 2. Despite having been on the Society's Executive Committee, and so > presumably aware of the limited financial resources under which the > Society currently operates, Tim suggests a Rolls Royce solution . . . > - 3 year PC replacement cycles are both unrealistic and unnecessary > for the simple uses to which most of the computers are used at the > Society. The age profile of the PCs in use will bear this out > - of course staff and volunteer time is taken in trying to monitor use > of networked laser printers, but that is what already happens to 3 > such printers in the lower library (for Internet, CD-ROMs and film > scanner). Coin slot operated printers are simply far too expensive a > proposition at present But we have coin operated photocopiers? The above scenario is replacing the photocopiers - to reduce damage to our precious asset, the books - and not requiring more volunteer time as volunteers are in short supply. > - it would really put off sponsors if it was suggested that they > should also provide for the eventual replacement costs of everything > they sponsor. Why no go the whole hog and suggest that they should pay > for the running costs too? No, the current practice is that the users pay for running costs. While I feel that the present charge is a bit high, I also think that principle should remain. The other point is that we are unlikely to even see such scanners without some donation. > 3. With over 25 years IT experience and the person who was responsible > for the selection and installation of all the Society's PCs and > printers between about 1995 and 2003, my hardware suggestions were for > reliable, quality kit at the best possible price > - Dell's advertising policy is to headline low PC prices but charge > high prices for additional or replacement components such as more > memory. This works to the Society's advantage when only a basic model > is required. The model chosen (E-value Code NPIUK4-D03241) comes from > Dell's March Business booklet - and it was not even one of the reduced > price sale items You have the advantage over me here as I do not have this booklet so was unaware of such an offer. Though I am astonished that they should be selling off this model at a third of the otherwise advertised price. (But see below on proliferation of models for support.) > - Dell sell mainly rebadged Lexmark printers. Published printer > comparisons usually place Lexmark print output quality below HP, > Epson, and Brother. I have bought Brother printers for the Society > and use them at home without problems. > - A printer is a peripheral not a component and if there is a problem > use the printer with another PC to determine where the problem lies. > So there is absolutely no reason to buy the same make of printer as > the PC unless you belong to a large organisation which has a binding > cost saving contract with Dell to do so. I have worked for such an > organisation . . . So have I. > - the Dell PC specified included a 1 year return to base repair > service. On site maintenance contracts are the ideal but when money is > tight and there are volunteers who can carry out basic IT repairs, the > risk of doing without is probably worth it I explored the Dell option as this was what was proposed. My own view is that all kit in the society should be from the same maker so that the knowledge need to deal with them is least and so that best price can be obtained when updating. Further I do not think it a good idea to have loads of old kit around. It is unreliable, it takes up valuable time keeping it going and gives a poor image. We should have up-to-date kit that takes minimum maintenance and does not tie up the time of skilled volunteers. I was delighted to see the smart row of new machines sponsored by the Hasted (sp?) project. And of course, you must be aware of the problem of having different makes of printers, with all the inks or toners that have to be kept as spares. The overriding problem is that like all organisations, the use of computers by the Society is increasing. As their numbers increase so the problems of support increases. As the numbers increase the cost increases. So rationalisation is needed to produce a manageable installation. > This is longer than I intended and I could go on . . . > > I shall not reply to any further messages on this subject. But there is still the intriguing suggestion that someone should sponsor this scanner. Does anyone else think it is worthwhile sponsoring? If so, speak up as otherwise the whole thing might vanish into thin air! -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org