I have found two boys of my extended Mycock family as pupils of the Kingswood School Wesleyan College in Bath in 1871. They were Mountford W[yche] Mycock, aged 15 and Arthur H[ambleton] Mycock aged 12. They were the sons of the Reverend Josiah Mycock (a Wesleyan minister) and his second wife Margaret. At some time between 1871 and 1881 it appears that the whole family changed their surname from Mycock to Mountford (Josiah's mother's maiden surname). Mountford W Mountford also became a Wesleyan minister and, I suspect, a missionary to Africa, like his father; Arthur H Mountford became a dentist. I believe that the SoG Library holds copies of two books which may shed further light on this family: Register of Kingswood School, Bath Published for the Old Boys' Union in 1910 by Butler & Tanner An Index to Change of Names 1760-1901, WPW Phillimore & EA Fry 1905, reprinted 1968 As I live some distance from London, I am currently unable to attend in person to make the small number of look-ups I need. Please could someone going into the library in the near future possibly look for the boys' entries in the school register (as either Mycock or Mountford) and also look in the Phillimore index for any mention of a change from Mycock to Mountford. I'm currently corresponding with both SOAS and John Rylands Library regarding the Methodist and missionary records. Regards Ken

Following on my recent query about genealogy software for Macs, and all the very helpful replies, I now have Reunion running on my iBook (OS 9.2) - great stuff. Thanks everyone.

I would be the first to admit this page does not reflect the current status of all projects. I hope to find time and get the co-ordinators for each project to provide an update. Sorry it's out of date but there are only so many hours in the day. Chris At 21:44 01/05/2005 +0100, PeterGoodey wrote: >Does anyone know offhand what the status of the Civil Service Evidences of >Age project is (http://www.sog.org.uk/projects.html )? Does the project even >still exist? Is there a target date? Chris Broomfield, Webmaster, Society of Genealogists, London webmaster@sog.org.uk www.sog.org.uk On-line retail shopping? Use www.buy.at/genealogists our affiliate shop and SoG gains funds at no cost to you

Does anyone know offhand what the status of the Civil Service Evidences of Age project is (http://www.sog.org.uk/projects.html )? Does the project even still exist? Is there a target date?

Hello again, thanks for the answer i thought it might cause trouble thats why I thought ask first. The photo's quite old,so it will keep a bit longer when I hope that I may be able to get to England at the end of the year yours Eddy Tate Germany

I wonder if (failing the obvious horticultural evidence) it may be something to do with the religious concept of "The True Vine". Were the cottages of about the same vintage - if so, you may have a lead. Cheers Rose Braisby Looking for Braisby and Hulland families wherever, whenever. -----Original Message----- From: La Greenall [mailto:animaus@ntlworld.com] Sent: 29 April 2005 15:27 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SoG] House naming patterns We can only guess at this unless documentary sources reveal anything concrete. It is almost certainly pure coincidence - your ancestors may even have picked cottages 2 and 3 simply because they had the same name as No. 1 - though there might be a VERY remote possibility of an occupational link? If this were at all likely, then I should think that strong supporting evidence, such as associated land-use (e.g. a vineyard?) would have to exist in context with most or all 3 of the cottages, in old maps, plans, etc. My father's house, built in 1906, is called "The Brandens" (sic). It is a semi, and next door is called "Melbreak." For decades no-one knew the reason for these names, until a lady knocked on the door one day and said she lived in our house in the 50s. During a guided tour (of our 20-year-old wallpaper!) she said that the two houses were named after mountains, and sure enough, there turns out to be a 'Melbreak' in the Peak District, though I've yet to find 'the Brandens.' If I succeed, then I could claim to have grown up in one of the only two mountains of Essex! A number of houses are called 'the Brandons' (sic,) which may be something to do with a Suffolk placename, I suppose. Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: Graham Ward [mailto:graham.ward@gmx.net] Sent: 28 April 2005 20:31 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SoG] House naming patterns This might not seem like a genealogy enquiry, but it is. Does anyone have any knowledge of house names? I have three branches of a family living in three separate villages between 1770 and 1870 but all chose the same house name - Vine Cottage. Is there evidence that names ran in families? Is this just a popular name? Is there any significance in the actual name "Vine Cottage"? Thanks Graham -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005

We can only guess at this unless documentary sources reveal anything concrete. It is almost certainly pure coincidence - your ancestors may even have picked cottages 2 and 3 simply because they had the same name as No. 1 - though there might be a VERY remote possibility of an occupational link? If this were at all likely, then I should think that strong supporting evidence, such as associated land-use (e.g. a vineyard?) would have to exist in context with most or all 3 of the cottages, in old maps, plans, etc. My father's house, built in 1906, is called "The Brandens" (sic). It is a semi, and next door is called "Melbreak." For decades no-one knew the reason for these names, until a lady knocked on the door one day and said she lived in our house in the 50s. During a guided tour (of our 20-year-old wallpaper!) she said that the two houses were named after mountains, and sure enough, there turns out to be a 'Melbreak' in the Peak District, though I've yet to find 'the Brandens.' If I succeed, then I could claim to have grown up in one of the only two mountains of Essex! A number of houses are called 'the Brandons' (sic,) which may be something to do with a Suffolk placename, I suppose. Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: Graham Ward [mailto:graham.ward@gmx.net] Sent: 28 April 2005 20:31 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SoG] House naming patterns This might not seem like a genealogy enquiry, but it is. Does anyone have any knowledge of house names? I have three branches of a family living in three separate villages between 1770 and 1870 but all chose the same house name - Vine Cottage. Is there evidence that names ran in families? Is this just a popular name? Is there any significance in the actual name "Vine Cottage"? Thanks Graham -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 29/04/2005

This might not seem like a genealogy enquiry, but it is. Does anyone have any knowledge of house names? I have three branches of a family living in three separate villages between 1770 and 1870 but all chose the same house name - Vine Cottage. Is there evidence that names ran in families? Is this just a popular name? Is there any significance in the actual name "Vine Cottage"? Thanks Graham

For those of you who subscribe to Ancestry, the whole 1861 census has just come on line. Best Wishes Alan Craven

Not as yet, I haven't yet found anything on 19th Middlesex Rifles except a reference in the biography of Oliver Penfold (surgeon in 1860s). I shall look up the Army List and contact Middlesex Regiment. Regards, Colin Mills

Did you get any luck with the above? Michael Tebbutt

In message of 25 Apr, Phil Warn <philwarn@ntlworld.com> wrote: > At 18:09 25/04/2005, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >>In message of 25 Apr, Phil Warn <philwarn@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> >><snip of civil servants furiously passing the buck because none has >>the power to make decisions> > Tim, > > You are mis-quoting the source of the above. > > By all means snip <grin> but please do not put some one else's words in my > mouth. I thought it sensible to summarize what I had snipped. If I wished to quote, then I would not have snipped. I was not puttimg any words in anyone's mouth as I did not quote any words. > > Perhaps the "heavy gang" could try to extract blood from your stone? > I think a very good job is being done and there are strong signs that all will be OK in the end. It takes time for these matters to be resolved. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

At 18:09 25/04/2005, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >In message of 25 Apr, Phil Warn <philwarn@ntlworld.com> wrote: > ><snip of civil servants furiously passing the buck because none has >the power to make decisions> Tim, You are mis-quoting the source of the above. By all means snip <grin> but please do not put some one else's words in my mouth. Perhaps the "heavy gang" could try to extract blood from your stone? Phil.

Hi Phil, >> The Quarterly Journal is not the place for tha, too infrequentt. << I have to challenge that. The Journal is the ONLY place where all the membership has access. This little tiddler of a list is of little value to most of the membership because they do not subscribe. Regards Gerry Langley

In message of 25 Apr, Phil Warn <philwarn@ntlworld.com> wrote: <snip of civil servants furiously passing the buck because none has the power to make decisions> > Now, it seems to me, that this is additional information to what the SoG > statement says. The Society has make an unqualified protest. I don't see any information added to that protest. > > Does the SoG as a body think that the cards are safe with TNA in control? Doubt it, but I am not that body (who is?). But the question to ask (your MP?) is what the National Archive's Job is. If it is not to archive material, what else can we say? > Is TNA which is charged with making money from its on line offerings like > 1901 Census a suitable body to preserve the countries' heritage? It is _The National Archive_ and if is isn't then all we get is another body with a similar name and function. Inventing new bodies with similar functions to older bodies (viz the replacement of MAFF by RPA) does not solve problems. You have to ask what the charter is of the body and whether: (a) That body is doing the right things by its charter and if not get their principals to do their job, or (b) The charter needs changing, so some parliamentary or government action is required. > I gather from both MoD and TNA staff, that the biggest factor for their > re-think was the National Press and not we family historians. Of course. It is not for nothing that the press is known as the Fourth Estate. > That seems to say a lot for the Federation, the SoG and other bodies. That is where you are wrong. Various people, genealogists even, made a fuss, the press picked it up (anything for a stir!) and this seems to have caused TNA to have a rethink. What if TNA had been playing a game: 1. We are short of cash, 2. We could save money by not having to rent a shed load of floor space, 3. Let's publicise some issues that could reduce the shed size and hope that someone may produce some funds to support us. A dangerous game but not beyond the Heavy Hitters in the business of getting blood out of stones. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

"Phil Warn" <philwarn@ntlworld.com> wrote : <snip> > I gather from both MoD and TNA staff, that the biggest factor for their > re-think was the National Press and not we family historians. > > That seems to say a lot for the Federation, the SoG and other bodies. > > Discuss! Allowing that family historians are a minor subset of the population, while national newspapers have circulations in the hundreds of thousands and even millions, I don't find this surprising. Many more people have an interest in FH than are represented by any of the various societies and the newspapers undoubtedly latched onto the story as a consequence of this burgeoning interest. As long as everyone involved does their bit and stirs things up, does it matter who stirs it the most ? John B Leic., Eng

At 16:37 25/04/2005, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >But in this case the Society's view is already quite plain. See > http://www.sog.org.uk/#news1 >What more needs to be added to it? Hi Tim, Since you asked, then perhaps a bit more news! I telephoned TNA today and I thought you might be interested in the following: 1) I telephoned and after explaining my purpose I got put through to one gentleman, who gave me a contact name Janet Hockins and a telephone number 020 8573 3837, and he added that he (anonymous) was against destruction of these cards and was on the side of family historians) 2) So I telephoned that number and found out that it was the MoD in Hayes, Mdx.Janet Hockins was not best pleased that her name and number were being handed out by TNA 3) She said that I should telephone TNA and insist they talked to me, or telephone the MoD Press Office. 4) I telephoned TNA (second time) and spoke to a lady from the Indian sub continent (from her accent) and she put me through to another gentleman. 5) Second man said that as TNA were in discussion with an (unnamed) body he could not say much. He said that TNA had been contacted by "a large number" of family historians and that a written approach would not be welcome! 6) Said TNA man could not help as to when any decision would be taken and agreed that Western Front Association were one of several bodies who had contacted TNA 7) He could not nor would TNA say any thing more and could not even say when a decision over the future of the cards would be due. 8) TNA was not even able to confirm that the future of the cards was safe. Now, it seems to me, that this is additional information to what the SoG statement says. Does the SoG as a body think that the cards are safe with TNA in control? Is TNA which is charged with making money from its on line offerings like 1901 Census a suitable body to preserve the countries' heritage? I gather from both MoD and TNA staff, that the biggest factor for their re-think was the National Press and not we family historians. That seems to say a lot for the Federation, the SoG and other bodies. Discuss! Phil.

In message of 25 Apr, April Ashton <ahashton@focalplane.com> wrote: > Dear Goeff > > Surely the statistics, resulting in percentages are misleading Having done a bit of statistics in my working life, I thought Geoff's explanation was first rate with a proper regard for probabilites and degrees of confidence. It may be that some find this to be a Cloud of Unknowing but the fact is that there are statistically valid truths expressed as percentages and degrees of confidence; they are just as much truths as the old black is white lot and give a far wider account of probabilistic facts. > - but > what's new in the day and age of spin, we may well ask........ the > main considerations are that so many gave their lives - and so many > were disabled for the rest of their lives - these men and women had no > choice - they were sacrificed by the politicians - and their lives > and those of some of their dependents were profoundly affected for as > long as they lived; in conscience, their records should be preserved > - at least until every shred of information has gone into safe keeping > for posterity - this is in the very least the obligation we as a nation > should be happy to fulfill; yes of course there are financial > considerations - but having worked in the public sector all my life, I > have no doubt that the funds could be made available if the will was > there to do so. Of course funds can be made available. But they have to be found from somewhere. Either costs have to be reduced elsewhere or taxation raised. (There is much the same problem with running the Society of Genealogists save that the option of "raising taxation" - increasing subscriptions - does not seem to be with us.) But in this case the Society's view is already quite plain. See http://www.sog.org.uk/#news1 What more needs to be added to it? -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Dear Goeff Surely the statistics, resulting in percentages are misleading - but what's new in the day and age of spin, we may well ask........ the main considerations are that so many gave their lives - and so many were disabled for the rest of their lives - these men and women had no choice - they were sacrificed by the politicians - and their lives and those of some of their dependents were profoundly affected for as long as they lived; in conscience, their records should be preserved - at least until every shred of information has gone into safe keeping for posterity - this is in the very least the obligation we as a nation should be happy to fulfill; yes of course there are financial considerations - but having worked in the public sector all my life, I have no doubt that the funds could be made available if the will was there to do so. April Ashton On 25 Apr 2005, at 10:22, Geoffrey wrote: > Phil wrote <heavily edited>: > >> You may be quite interested in an email I got from TNA after I >> challenged >> their statistics about WW1 Medal cards. >> >> A formal random sampling of 2,000 cards was carried out in March this >> year, >> to inform TNA whether the past users' "gut feeling" on this was >> correct. >> Soldiers' cards bearing addresses were found in 0.65% of the cards >> sampled. >> >> By my count, if there were 5 million cards, as many as 33,000 cards >> with an >> address on the reverse were about to be lost >> >> The sample size is rather small to be stastistically significant. >> >> So, who knows, there might be over 100,000 addresses in limbo. > > > This guess of 100,000 is not born out by the statistics. > > Although 2000 cards out of an estimated 5 million may seem rather > small, in > fact statistically this is classified as a large sample. Had the > number of > 'hits' been around 50% then we would be talking of a variation of plus > or > minus 2% giving a range of 48% to 52% with 95% probability of this > being > correct. > > The problem in the case of these cards is that the percentage 'hits' is > less than 1% which means that the range of certainty is much wider. > > With a 95% confidence (odds of 19 to 1 that this is correct) a result > of > 0.65% has a range of plus or minus 0.36% i.e. 0.29% to 1.01%. > > The outcome of all these percentages is that the estimated number of > cards > with addresses on the reverse, based on five million cards, is 14,500 > to > 50,500. A long way short of 100,000. > > The key to this is the requirement of a random sample. If they just > looked > at the first 2000 cards in the first drawer then the sample is far from > random. However if they took one random card from every drawer (I > estimate > that there are 2002 drawers) then the sample is very fair. > > This is all fairly academic at the moment. > > The Society's Genealogy Officer has been in touch with the MoD and we > understand that they are in serious discussion with a third party > regarding > the preservation of the cards. It has been suggested that this may be > the > Western Front Association, but neither party has confirmed this. > > It does appear that these cards will survive. > > Geoff > > Geoffrey T. Stone, > SoG Mailing List Administrator. lists@sog.org.uk > http://www.sog.org.uk >

In message of 25 Apr, Phil Warn <philwarn@ntlworld.com> wrote: <snip on WW1 medals cards> > If I can, I want to raise this whole issue at the AGM, can this be > done by proxy? That s, can I raise it as an issue by a letter to the > AGM Chairman? The Society's rules are on http://www.sog.org.uk/governance/index.html It looks to me that all it requires are between twenty-one days and two months notice, depending on the content of the resolution and if it is to amend General Regulations, then 10 members must sign it. The Chairman of the AGM is the Society's President; I would suggest that the correct person to address any resolution to is the Secretary. Mind you, the letter from the Society at http://www.sog.org.uk/#news1 seems to cover most if not all of what you have raised. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org