Please can someone help me? I'm trying to view Tiff images on Origins - and can't! Apparently alternatiff is only for Windows, and I have a Mac. I'm getting really frustrated here, and am not very techy-minded. Have others had this problem? Or does everybody else use PCs? Surely there's a way? All advice gratefully received! Stella

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:02:12 +0100, Peter Christian wrote on the SoG Mailing List:: >In today's Guardian >http://politics.guardian.co.uk/egovernment/story/0,12767,1512480,00.html > >Probably best not to read this if you're easily outraged by government >departments not learning their lesson. Some more details have since come to light: - Len Cook the Registrar General has released a statement on the ONS web site at: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/digit0605.pdf - Steve Lloyd, the Communications Manager of Certificate Services at the General Register Office has replied to an email saying that the scans to be sent abroad will be made from the microfilm copies of the centrally held ***certified copies*** of BMD records, not the original records held in local registries around the country. So they have even saved money by scanning existing centrally held films rather than the original registry records, thus preserving any errors made in producing the centrally held 'certified copies'. Does anyone know if the SoG and the FFHS have made representations about this? There is not much time before the contract with Siemens is signed! Cheers, John John Addis-Smith Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England

On accuracy: I see that the gov't will "insist on an accuracy of 99.5%". Looks good doesn't it - it's probably better than my own transcriptions - but although I am not a statistician (you will see that from my calculations), even I can see that 99.5% is probably 2 orders of magnitude too slack. Assuming that the figure means that any field can contain an inaccuracy with a probability of 0.5%, I reckon that this means not far short of one record in ten containing an error. I have assumed that all columns and other variable fields will be coded, and for Bcerts that is 10 columns and several other fields, for Mcerts, probably double, and Dcerts similar to Bcerts. I have assumed a round number of 20. Of course, where the original is handwritten, transcription errors happen. In the world of Genealogy we allow for truly ambiguous or indistinct writing with s[qua]re brackets or [??]question marks. I bet they won't be allowed to do that! On justification: It's interesting, too, that the striking down of the regulatory reforms seem to have done nothing to stop the juggernaut of implementation. On National Security: Doubtless the modern records in this database will be used to validate future identity card applications (whatever may be said to the contrary). No way should any processing be done outside of the UK. And I mean UK, not EU, not EEA. This is not an anti-foreigner thing of mine, it is just that throughout history, the important records of states and populations have been maintained by those states, in the interest of the state and the population, not by foreigners for money. If the records MIGHT be used to support National Security goals, it follows that NO-ONE outside the state should have the kind of (write) access envisaged by this contract. Also, the US government, thanks to routine intelligence activity, will receive all of the images the moment they are sent. Aside: I wonder for how long well-educated people in India, a large proportion with Univerity Degrees, will be content to be everyones pool of cheap labour for call-centres and data entry? It's a kind of latter-day colonisation, but by business, not State. Dave Beakhust -----Original Message----- From: Peter Christian [mailto:peter@spub.co.uk] Sent: 23 June 2005 10:02 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Population database will move to India In today's Guardian http://politics.guardian.co.uk/egovernment/story/0,12767,1512480,00.html Probably best not to read this if you're easily outraged by government departments not learning their lesson. peter

I see that British Origins now have an index to the wills proved in York peculiars and held at the Borthwick Institute. Does this mean all the wills held at the Borthwick Institute - or just a sub group of them? Can anybody enlighten me? Christopher Richards

FamilyHistoryOnline have lots of records other than church records. As well as the whole of the 1881 Census Index for England and Wales they have 9.3 million other census entries. They also have 13.7 million Burials, 2.2 million Baptisms, 2.4 million Marriages, nearly 1 million Monumental inscriptions, 800,000 other records such as Wills indexes, Somerset Hemp and Flax growers, Salisbury Infirmary, Tithe awards etc. A list of all the databases can be found at http://www.familyhistoryonline.net/database/index.shtml Most of the data is provided by Family History Societies or by local history groups. We try to add between half to one million extra records every month. Gillian (FHOL Data Administrator) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann L. Wells" <annwells@yahoo.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [SoG] church records > That site should be http://www.familyhistoryonline.net. > > > ADRIENNE NORBURY <a.norbury@btopenworld.com> wrote: > Thanks to those who assisted me to relocate this important site, www.familyhistoryonline.com > It is a collection of church records from around the country presumably sent in by FHSocieties, > the charges for a printed record is minimal, I do hope they will be expanding their collection of records! > thanks again Adrienne > > > > > Ann L. Wells > > Wells Research Associates > Midwest Genealogy Research > http://genealogypro.com/wells-research.html > > > >

Society members may rest assured that the SoG makes all necessary representations regarding the quality of indexing and other work being proposed to be let to contractors by government departments. We have very good relations with the various departments of government involved, and use those contacts to good effect, but the people we speak with cannot always tell us all the details. I am aware of many cases over the last 15 years where we have made our views known. Unfortunately, as with most other things, contracts are let to the lowest tenderer, and the family history world is relatively small. We rarely get to know about the proposed indexing in time to make sufficient impact on the initial stages of a proposal - generally the information only comes out once the specification has been written. On a number of occasions the SoG and the Federation of Family History Societies have made their views known and asked members to write in as individuals. This can be successful, if done at the right stage, as was done with the review of the Registration Service, where the whole proposal was sent back for a total rethink following around 2,500 responses. Also the proposed destruction of the medal cards was stopped by a large number of letters from organisations and individuals. Frank Hardy

Thanks to those who assisted me to relocate this important site, www.familyhistoryonline.com It is a collection of church records from around the country presumably sent in by FHSocieties, the charges for a printed record is minimal, I do hope they will be expanding their collection of records! thanks again Adrienne

>Perhaps we should be discussing whether > there is a constructive input that the Society can present concerned with > ensuring the integrity and availability of the records we are interested > in wherever they are stored and processed. > > Howard I recall that advice was offered by members of the SoG regarding the need for appropriate Quality Assurance proceedures for the 1901 census transcription and it was totally ignored, and was found to be totally absent, by those members who were able to take part in the operation. I do hope that the Society will make the necessary representations to ensure that proper standards are instituted and that checking procedures are put in place, and evaluated, long before the transcription is started for real. Fred Jackson

I found this exchange on offshoring the database on my return from my Union conference, where there was considerable debate on this issue which affects many of my colleagues. Thankfully it was positive and constructive, concentrating on finding a balance of protecting UK workers, ensuring standards of security and integrity are protected and raising economic and employment levels in the receiving countries. I'm sure the Civil Service unions are engaged on the same sort of exercise regarding this particular off-shoring. Isn't this all getting a bit off-topic? Perhaps we should be discussing whether there is a constructive input that the Society can present concerned with ensuring the integrity and availability of the records we are interested in wherever they are stored and processed. Howard

That site should be http://www.familyhistoryonline.net. ADRIENNE NORBURY <a.norbury@btopenworld.com> wrote: Thanks to those who assisted me to relocate this important site, www.familyhistoryonline.com It is a collection of church records from around the country presumably sent in by FHSocieties, the charges for a printed record is minimal, I do hope they will be expanding their collection of records! thanks again Adrienne Ann L. Wells Wells Research Associates Midwest Genealogy Research http://genealogypro.com/wells-research.html

In message of 23 Jun, "Anne Hartley" <anne.hartley1@ntlworld.com> wrote: > I have just read the article with much disgust. > > It will be so easy for people to add and alter computer details. A "human > trafficker's" heaven!! > > Just pay a sum and anything can be altered, which I believe already happens > in UK. > > What is the ONS thinking of! I do not believe they can manage 99.5% > security, and 0.5% of 250m is ?1.5m errors and details open to fraud! > Legally done too. > > What hope for future genealogists and historians. And then what did that UK Agency, QuockItUp, do with the 1901 census? Though I will agree that they did their bit to Make Poverty History by subcontracting to India, after a notorious subcontractor here failed to deliver the goods. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

It matters because yet again we have a megalomaniac prime minister demonstrating that he's happy to ride roughshod over the democratic process, and brush aside any thoughts of legality. Paul (with apologies to moderator & fellow members for sending previous mail in HTML format in error). -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.11/26 - Release Date: 22/06/2005

I have just read the article with much disgust. It will be so easy for people to add and alter computer details. A "human trafficker's" heaven!! Just pay a sum and anything can be altered, which I believe already happens in UK. What is the ONS thinking of! I do not believe they can manage 99.5% security, and 0.5% of 250m is ?1.5m errors and details open to fraud! Legally done too. What hope for future genealogists and historians. Anne -----Original Message----- From: Peter Christian [mailto:peter@spub.co.uk] Sent: 23 June 2005 10:02 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SoG] Population database will move to India In today's Guardian http://politics.guardian.co.uk/egovernment/story/0,12767,1512480,00.html Probably best not to read this if you're easily outraged by government departments not learning their lesson. peter

In message of 23 Jun, Peter Christian <peter@spub.co.uk> wrote: > In today's Guardian > http://politics.guardian.co.uk/egovernment/story/0,12767,1512480,00.html > > Probably best not to read this if you're easily outraged by government > departments not learning their lesson. Can't see the problem really. Both the core documents and the scans of them willr meian in this country. It is only copies of the scans that will go abroad. Make Poverty History: feed the Indians! -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Are we to presume that the Family History Centre is to be phased out? The material all transferred to Digital and the books destroyed? Now there's an intriguing thought. The legality of this proposed move is, of course, highly questionable, but that will not stop the government from doing it. If they can bomb people against public opinion, then moving simple records is a mere bagatelle. I wonder if it will be possible to opt out. I can opt out of my records being made public from the electoral role, so why not from the BMD records. That could spike their guns. Peter Amsden, Argyll, Scotland ASAT Productions: http://www.asat.biz Researching Amsden World Wide Outline History: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~amsden Books I have written: http://www.btinternet.com/~amsden AllExperts: http://www.allexperts.com/displayExpert.asp?Expert=38044 Never dump originals - they may be all that is left after the computer age. > From: Peter Christian <peter@spub.co.uk> > Reply-To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:02:12 +0100 > To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SoG] Population database will move to India > Resent-From: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 03:01:43 -0600 > > In today's Guardian > http://politics.guardian.co.uk/egovernment/story/0,12767,1512480,00.html > > Probably best not to read this if you're easily outraged by government > departments not learning their lesson. > > peter >

In today's Guardian http://politics.guardian.co.uk/egovernment/story/0,12767,1512480,00.html Probably best not to read this if you're easily outraged by government departments not learning their lesson. peter

I see, today, that a gent in an Indian Call Centre has been selling our bank account details to all who ask for £4 a go. I remember Harold MacMillan berating Maggie for "Selling off the Family Silver" when she commenced Privatisation. Wonder what sort of economic black hole we are really in? And where are all those Socialist ideals of protecting the workers? Whose workers? Reminds me of the lines from the old rugby song, The working class can kiss my a***, I've got the foreman's job at last! Oh well, we can all write letters I suppose, but I guess it's an open and closed case as usual. Michael Tebbutt

Hi Adrienne West Middlesex FHS have put 84,695 entries from 61 places (1538-1837) onto www.familyhistoryonline.net. It is a pay per view site but registration is free (they do not ask for any personal details when you sign on just your name and preferably an email address) and then you can do free searches. Only when you have found an entry which you want to look at more details of the record do you have to pay - minimum five pounds which lasts for 6 months unless you have used up all your credit - costs between approx 2p and 9p to view a record. By the way they also have the 1881 census (same as that found on the family search site and also on ancestry) which is completely free to view. Same data but different search engine. Regards Gillian ----- Original Message ----- From: "ADRIENNE NORBURY" <a.norbury@btopenworld.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: [SoG] Middlesex > A kind person told us the website address of a Middlesex Group which has put some marriages on the net, does anybody know what it was? > Thanks Adrienne > >

Yes thanks Chris thats the one! Chris Watts <ml@ctwatts.plus.com> wrote:The Middlesex Marriage index is maintained by the West Middlesex FHS and is avaialble online at http://www.familyhistoryonline.net/ Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "ADRIENNE NORBURY" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: [SoG] Middlesex | A kind person told us the website address of a Middlesex Group which has put some marriages on the net, does anybody know what it was? | Thanks Adrienne | | -- | This email has been verified as Virus free | Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net

The Middlesex Marriage index is maintained by the West Middlesex FHS and is avaialble online at http://www.familyhistoryonline.net/ Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "ADRIENNE NORBURY" <a.norbury@btopenworld.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: [SoG] Middlesex | A kind person told us the website address of a Middlesex Group which has put some marriages on the net, does anybody know what it was? | Thanks Adrienne | | -- | This email has been verified as Virus free | Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net