Glynis Just a thought - does the tithe map include a field with a name such as Old Lane Field (OLF)? The posts and caps sound remarkably like fence posts and together with the planks, could be a post and rail fence round a field owned by the parish. From the 'carpenters work done in the roads', it could be roadside fencing, but that still doesn't explain 'olf'. Ken Researching MYCOCK/ MICOCK anywhere any time G Morris wrote: >Dear Geoff, > >Thank you very much for your input, thoughts and the look up in the OED. I am very grateful for the OED especially. > >I have a photocopy of the document in front of me, it is a receipted bill signed by my ancestor detailing work done in 'carpenters work done in the roads' for the churchwarden Mr Brewit. It has been annotated as 'Bills & Receipts Surveyor's Accts for 1818 for Rayleigh Parish' >The total bill for nearly a year comes to L10 14s 1 1/2d > >The 'f' is written the same as in his 'field' and the end letters of his signature, being Thomas WAGGSTAFF. > >Further on in the two page document is; >to 1/2 day to stubing up old olf at Ditto 0 - 1 - 9 >to 4 oak posts and 2 caps for Ditto >to 18 feet of planck to lay by the side of Ditto > >I cannot find Hambrey Lane in Rayleigh either. I have a enlarged tithe map of Rayleigh and it is not shown on there. > >I like the reference to the camel but for now I remain stumped. As you suggest it is probably a structure of some kind. > >Thank you very much, >Glynis >Essex >

I should like to draw readers attention to the publication by the Woolhope Naturalist's Field Club this year of a very valuable book with the above title, edited by the indefatigable Michael Faraday. (Look him up as an author in the online SoG Library Catalogue to see a list of his publications). Despite its name, Herefordshire's Woolhope Naturalist's Field Club, founded in 1851, deals with both the archaeology and local history as well as the natural history of Herefordshire. 'Herefordshire Taxes in the Reign of Henry VIII' is a quite a large book, 10.5" by 7.5" with 474 pages, mainly in double columns of small print. Prepared by the Logaston Press for printing, the ISBN No. is: 0 9505823 2 8. The price is UKP 25 plus postage. For the first time for any county this volume brings together transcripts of all the surviving documents relating to the taxation of Herefordshire between 1509 and 1547. After 34 introductory pages with tables, the Contents lists nearly 30 transcribed documents starting with the 1512 Subsidy Act and ending with the 1545 Subsidy Act: Second Payment in 1547. Many, but not all, of the documents contain lists of individual tax payers by township within hundred - literally thousands of personal names. There is a combined Index of Persons, Places and Subjects, but unfortunately it looks as if the index was drawn up as the documents were transcribed rather after the transcriptions had been typeset. So the index references are not to individual pages in the book but to a Section Reference which is coded to the Year of the Payment, the Hundred, and the Number of the block of text within that Hundred. There is then a Key Table linking these Section-References to the book's Page Numbers. For example: 47Gm7 refers to the 1545 Subsidy Act, Second Payment in 1547, for the Grimsworth Hundred, 7th block of text. From the Key Table we see that this block of text is on page 365 of the book. On looking at this page we see that it refers to the township (also parish in this case) of Bridge Sollers. Six taxpayers are listed. So please don't ask for lookups because it would be a rather time consuming task! And finding the book will be no easy task unless you can get to Hereford. It was only published in August this year and is not listed by Bookfinder, ABE or Amazon at present. The SoG Library Catalogue does not list it yet though they no doubt will in the future. If you want a copy of the book I would suggest that you contact the Woolhope Club. Their published web site does not seem to work at present, but you can get postal details from: http://www.findgroups.org.uk/search_results_detail/7074/ or: http://users.whsmithnet.co.uk/philbufton/Local%20History%20Societies.htm or: http://www.archaeology.co.uk/directory/viewsoc.asp?cat=1&soc=870 I have no idea how many copies of the book are left for sale. Cheers, John John Addis-Smith Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England

Dear Geoff, Thank you very much for your input, thoughts and the look up in the OED. I am very grateful for the OED especially. I have a photocopy of the document in front of me, it is a receipted bill signed by my ancestor detailing work done in 'carpenters work done in the roads' for the churchwarden Mr Brewit. It has been annotated as 'Bills & Receipts Surveyor's Accts for 1818 for Rayleigh Parish' The total bill for nearly a year comes to L10 14s 1 1/2d The 'f' is written the same as in his 'field' and the end letters of his signature, being Thomas WAGGSTAFF. Further on in the two page document is; to 1/2 day to stubing up old olf at Ditto 0 - 1 - 9 to 4 oak posts and 2 caps for Ditto to 18 feet of planck to lay by the side of Ditto I cannot find Hambrey Lane in Rayleigh either. I have a enlarged tithe map of Rayleigh and it is not shown on there. I like the reference to the camel but for now I remain stumped. As you suggest it is probably a structure of some kind. Thank you very much, Glynis Essex ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoffrey Glynis asks:- >Does anyone know what Olf means in the following context please? > >ERO ref: D/P 332/21/2 parish of Rayleigh, Ess > >Dec 30 1817 from the bill of a carpenter [Thomas WAGGSTAFF] > >to mending of olf in hambry lane [?] [?] nails and oak planck 0 - 2- 0 > >and > >February 23 to mending of olf in hambrey lane labour and oak planck 0 - 6 - 2 > >I have a feeling it is staring me in the face but I cannot work it out and I am not allowed to drive to ERO [for OED] for another two weeks, Firstly, did you see the original and are the details those that you copied, or did you take this from a transcription? What exactly was the document? I am not convinced about the suggestion of ole (hole), but this is the only suggestion so far. Mending holes in the road is not too likely to require a plank and nails. So I would guess that it is a structure (bridge, style or fence?) or building. I checked my Essex Dialect Dictionary but that was no help. The prefix olf means smell as in olfactory etc. Could it have been somewhere smelly - a midden? OED:- Olfend is an old word for a Camel - plank and nails !! <grin> A Green-olf (olph, alf, olp) was a green-finch or more properly a green grosbeak (Suffolk dialect). So I think that it is an unidentified structure or building - the village lock-up or stocks? Requiring significant repair if the second bill was 6/2d. Although I don't know the area, I can find no sign of Hambrey Lane in modern Rayleigh, the nearest being Hambro Hill, Close and Avenue to the north-east of the town. Perhaps an old map of the town with the lane marked might give a clue regarding what was there. - Tythe map? You could ask the ERO, after all it was their document. Please let us know if anything turns up. Regards, Geoff (From Essex)

Glynis asks:- >Does anyone know what Olf means in the following context please? > >ERO ref: D/P 332/21/2 parish of Rayleigh, Ess > >Dec 30 1817 from the bill of a carpenter [Thomas WAGGSTAFF] > >to mending of olf in hambry lane [?] [?] nails and oak planck 0 - 2- 0 > >and > >February 23 to mending of olf in hambrey lane labour and oak planck 0 - 6 - 2 > >I have a feeling it is staring me in the face but I cannot work it out and I am not allowed to drive to ERO [for OED] for another two weeks, Firstly, did you see the original and are the details those that you copied, or did you take this from a transcription? What exactly was the document? I am not convinced about the suggestion of ole (hole), but this is the only suggestion so far. Mending holes in the road is not too likely to require a plank and nails. So I would guess that it is a structure (bridge, style or fence?) or building. I checked my Essex Dialect Dictionary but that was no help. The prefix olf means smell as in olfactory etc. Could it have been somewhere smelly - a midden? OED:- Olfend is an old word for a Camel - plank and nails !! <grin> A Green-olf (olph, alf, olp) was a green-finch or more properly a green grosbeak (Suffolk dialect). So I think that it is an unidentified structure or building - the village lock-up or stocks? Requiring significant repair if the second bill was 6/2d. Although I don't know the area, I can find no sign of Hambrey Lane in modern Rayleigh, the nearest being Hambro Hill, Close and Avenue to the north-east of the town. Perhaps an old map of the town with the lane marked might give a clue regarding what was there. - Tythe map? You could ask the ERO, after all it was their document. Please let us know if anything turns up. Regards, Geoff (From Essex) Geoffrey T. Stone, SoG Mailing List Administrator. lists@sog.org.uk http://www.sog.org.uk On-line retail shopping? Use http://www.buy.at/genealogists our affiliate shop and SoG gains funds at no cost to you.

It sounds very much like a type of closeboard fence that is being repaired. X4 posts and X2 caps for the tops and the plancks lain at the bottom therefore, might well be gravel boards. Michael Tebbutt.

Hi Tom: At 7:52 pm +1000 15/9/05, Tom Perrett wrote: >On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:54:58 +0100, Brian Randell wrote: > >>Hi: >> >>Does anyone have any recommendations for B&B ensuite accommodation >>near the PRO at Kew - I've been given one suggestion for a place that >>is about 15 minutes walk away, and I'm wondering what there is even >>closer. >> >>Cheers >> >>Brian Randell > >TNA have a link about accomodation. See at > > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/visit/accommodation.htm > >Tom Thanks - that just points one to the Richmond Tourist Information Centre and to a listing for which the TNA disclaims any responsibility, though it does look useful. However, I was hoping for some personal recommendations. Cheers Brian -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

Hi: Does anyone have any recommendations for B&B ensuite accommodation near the PRO at Kew - I've been given one suggestion for a place that is about 15 minutes walk away, and I'm wondering what there is even closer. Cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

The best I can offer for the "mending of olf in hambry lane" is (h)ole[s]. I am relying on a combination of an Essex dropped h and an elongated s. In the words (nearly) of the comic song "... there we was, mending these olf"! Best wishes John Cook ----- Original Message ----- From: "G Morris" <gr.morris@btinternet.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 13 September 2005 17:50 Subject: Help with 'Olf' please > Does anyone know what Olf means in the following context please? > > ERO ref: D/P 332/21/2 parish of Rayleigh, Ess > > Dec 30 1817 from the bill of a carpenter [Thomas WAGGSTAFF] > > to mending of olf in hambry lane [?] [?] nails and oak planck 0 - 2- 0 > > and > > February 23 to mending of olf in hambrey lane labour and oak planck 0 - 6 - 2 > > I have a feeling it is staring me in the face but I cannot work it out and I am not allowed to drive to ERO [for OED] for another two weeks, > > many thanks > Glynis > > ______________________________

Just to update you on my British Origins problems - the site reappeared after a short while (OK I am short of patience with web sites that play up) and I was let on to continue my session. My next problem was with apprentice image files for which I had to load a demo version of a TIF reader. The suggested site didn't offer me a reader for my browser of choice so I had to switch to IE. If I want to continue to read TIF files from the site I must pay for the demo version to be updated. This compares very badly with the 1837online site where they show you how to download a dejavu reader for free. Just to muddy the water I am an Apple Macintosh user so obviously part of a minority group of customers. This sort of messy outcome puts me off using British Origins except for my free access sessions. So although they have (or will have) the 1841 census images I'll think twice before committing any money. Eileen On Monday, September 12, 2005, at 04:36 pm, Eileen Adkins wrote: > Has anyone else had trouble with access to the British Origins site > today Monday 12th Sep? > > I had only been logged on a few minutes when the link failed. As I've > never had any success with continuing a session after a break I'm a > bit depressed about it. > > Eileen >

Does anyone know what Olf means in the following context please? ERO ref: D/P 332/21/2 parish of Rayleigh, Ess Dec 30 1817 from the bill of a carpenter [Thomas WAGGSTAFF] to mending of olf in hambry lane [?] [?] nails and oak planck 0 - 2- 0 and February 23 to mending of olf in hambrey lane labour and oak planck 0 - 6 - 2 I have a feeling it is staring me in the face but I cannot work it out and I am not allowed to drive to ERO [for OED] for another two weeks, many thanks Glynis

I have had this trouble quite a few times after finishing the first session I each Quarter.The next time I Log on, a message tells me that I have had my allotted time span and I must wait for my next Quarter's worth. I usually phone in as Emails never seem to be heeded, and get a new clearance. I did mention the matter to the relevant person, Jane, at the SOG Fair who promised to try to find out what the problem was, but........ Michael.

One thing you have to beware of is the quality of the analysis of the original material. DNA degrades and can be unmeasurable in ancient bones. The archaeological literature is littered with papers on the problems of extracting ancient DNA. Such bones can also be contaminated with modern DNA if the researchers are a bit careless ... Ros ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Adshead" <gordon@adshead.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [SoG] GeoGene > At 22:09 12/09/05, Brian Randell wrote: > >At Saturday's National Family History Fair in Gateshead (which > >incidentally had about 2200 visitors, and 120 stands), where I was helping > >to man the Devon FHS stand, I picked up information about GeoGene's Y > >Chromosome-based DNA testing services. > >The results are claimed to allow one to: > >"Follow your own paternal and/or maternal (depending on the actual service > >chosen) ancestors' journey as early modern humans peopled the world; > >See how frequently your 'genetic cousins' are found in different countries > >today; > >Learn about the genetic markers thatreveal your ancestral origins > >Discover how your ancestry fits into the vast family tree that unites the > >human race" > >(The results are provided on a "personalised A3-sized wallchart", and on > >CD-ROM.) > >They have a website at http://www.geogene.com/. > >I had been waiting for DNA testing to improve and become cheaper before > >even considering investing in it. However GeoGene's service fees (£90 for > >paternal or maternal testing, £140 for combined) seem low enough, and the > >enthusiasm of one of my Devon FHS colleagues for the results he had > >obtained from GeoGene is high enough, at least to prompt me to ask whether > >any SOG-UK-L subscribers have any views about the merits of the GeoGene > >service. > > I too was very interested in the GeoGene's stand at Gateshead, and tried to > get them to explain the significance and accuracy of what they were measuring. > When the GOONS had a seminar on this subject in Oxford about two years ago, > Oxford Ancestors stated that we were heading for a cost of ~5£ per marker. > As far as I could see, GeoGene have nearly reached this level and are > making credible measurements on 17 marker points for about £90. > I was very tempted to sign up on the spot to receive the two "personalised" > A3 wall charts (one male ancestry, one female ancestry) purporting to > indicate which part of the world my ancestors had come from. Certainly > the wording was very entertaining. > However I was a little put off by statements along the lines of "This gene > was first found in a woman 60,000 years ago in Abyssinia". > When I tried to press the sales people, they tried to say that this was > quite factual and derived from analysis of burial remains. > I think I can just about believe that DNA measurements can give a pretty > good indication of common ancestry groupings, but I remain just a bit > skeptical about the flowery language used on the wall charts. > > > > +Z_______________+Z_______________+Z__________________________+Z > <www.adshead.com> Gordon Adshead Manchester Design Technology > Beaumont House, 2 Goodrington Road, Handforth, Cheshire, SK9 3AT, England > Tel:Fax:Msg:+44-1625-549770 Mob:+44-777-6145602 <gordon@adshead.com> > > > >

Hi all, As in most things it pays to shop around and see what the market place is offering and define what you are really seeking, is it to seek or confirm a common ancestor or to know you are a descendent of a Viking warrior or a Norman invader. I have recently used the people below to confirm or otherwise a common ancestor:- http://www.dnaheritage.com/default.asp but also had discussions with:- http://www.oxfordancestors.com/ If you compare the two there are significant differences which need to be questioned. However detailed reading is required. If anyone is particularly interested I will share more detailed experience off list. I thought my exercise was relatively inexpensive. Geoff South Wales -----Original Message----- From: Brian Randell [mailto:Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk] Sent: 12 September 2005 22:10 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SoG] GeoGene Hi: At Saturday's National Family History Fair in Gateshead (which incidentally had about 2200 visitors, and 120 stands), where I was helping to man the Devon FHS stand, I picked up information about GeoGene's Y Chromosome-based DNA testing services. The results are claimed to allow one to: "Follow your own paternal and/or maternal (depending on the actual service chosen) ancestors' journey as early modern humans peopled the world; See how frequently your 'genetic cousins' are found in different countries today; Learn about the genetic markers thatreveal your ancestral origins Discover how your ancestry fits into the vast family tree that unites the human race" (The results are provided on a "personalised A3-sized wallchart", and on CD-ROM.) They have a website at http://www.geogene.com/. I had been waiting for DNA testing to improve and become cheaper before even considering investing in it. However GeoGene's service fees (£90 for paternal or maternal testing, £140 for combined) seem low enough, and the enthusiasm of one of my Devon FHS colleagues for the results he had obtained from GeoGene is high enough, at least to prompt me to ask whether any SOG-UK-L subscribers have any views about the merits of the GeoGene service. Cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

To - Margaret If Peter's suggestion is not the problem can you email me at <webmaster@sog.org.uk> To - All list members: The Society's domain does get used to generate rogue messages from time to time like most do. Usually you can spot these as they have a first name before the @ . There are no genuine SoG email addresses like this. Chris At 15:31 10/09/2005 +0100, Peter Walker wrote: >margaret pawson wrote: > > Good afternoon, I am a SOG member, number 033382. For several > > weeks I have > > been receiving unwanted emails via the SOG. They are > > obviously from members > > but I do not know them and have not communicated with them. > > The subjects > > they are concerned with are of no interest to me. I am > > getting approximately > > 6 a day and its becoming annoying. The email address from > > which they come is > > the one above. I would appreciate your help in stopping these emails. > > Regards Margaret Pawson > >Margaret, > >If they are coming from SOG-UK-L@Rootsweb.com then this is normal list >traffic. If you don't want it, unsubscribe from the list. Send an e-mail >with the single word unsubscribe to SOG-L-Request@Rootsweb.com > >Peter Walker This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos anti-virus technology -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 02/09/2005

At 22:09 12/09/05, Brian Randell wrote: >At Saturday's National Family History Fair in Gateshead (which >incidentally had about 2200 visitors, and 120 stands), where I was helping >to man the Devon FHS stand, I picked up information about GeoGene's Y >Chromosome-based DNA testing services. >The results are claimed to allow one to: >"Follow your own paternal and/or maternal (depending on the actual service >chosen) ancestors' journey as early modern humans peopled the world; >See how frequently your 'genetic cousins' are found in different countries >today; >Learn about the genetic markers thatreveal your ancestral origins >Discover how your ancestry fits into the vast family tree that unites the >human race" >(The results are provided on a "personalised A3-sized wallchart", and on >CD-ROM.) >They have a website at http://www.geogene.com/. >I had been waiting for DNA testing to improve and become cheaper before >even considering investing in it. However GeoGene's service fees (£90 for >paternal or maternal testing, £140 for combined) seem low enough, and the >enthusiasm of one of my Devon FHS colleagues for the results he had >obtained from GeoGene is high enough, at least to prompt me to ask whether >any SOG-UK-L subscribers have any views about the merits of the GeoGene >service. I too was very interested in the GeoGene's stand at Gateshead, and tried to get them to explain the significance and accuracy of what they were measuring. When the GOONS had a seminar on this subject in Oxford about two years ago, Oxford Ancestors stated that we were heading for a cost of ~5£ per marker. As far as I could see, GeoGene have nearly reached this level and are making credible measurements on 17 marker points for about £90. I was very tempted to sign up on the spot to receive the two "personalised" A3 wall charts (one male ancestry, one female ancestry) purporting to indicate which part of the world my ancestors had come from. Certainly the wording was very entertaining. However I was a little put off by statements along the lines of "This gene was first found in a woman 60,000 years ago in Abyssinia". When I tried to press the sales people, they tried to say that this was quite factual and derived from analysis of burial remains. I think I can just about believe that DNA measurements can give a pretty good indication of common ancestry groupings, but I remain just a bit skeptical about the flowery language used on the wall charts. +Z_______________+Z_______________+Z__________________________+Z <www.adshead.com> Gordon Adshead Manchester Design Technology Beaumont House, 2 Goodrington Road, Handforth, Cheshire, SK9 3AT, England Tel:Fax:Msg:+44-1625-549770 Mob:+44-777-6145602 <gordon@adshead.com>

Hi: At Saturday's National Family History Fair in Gateshead (which incidentally had about 2200 visitors, and 120 stands), where I was helping to man the Devon FHS stand, I picked up information about GeoGene's Y Chromosome-based DNA testing services. The results are claimed to allow one to: "Follow your own paternal and/or maternal (depending on the actual service chosen) ancestors' journey as early modern humans peopled the world; See how frequently your 'genetic cousins' are found in different countries today; Learn about the genetic markers thatreveal your ancestral origins Discover how your ancestry fits into the vast family tree that unites the human race" (The results are provided on a "personalised A3-sized wallchart", and on CD-ROM.) They have a website at http://www.geogene.com/. I had been waiting for DNA testing to improve and become cheaper before even considering investing in it. However GeoGene's service fees (£90 for paternal or maternal testing, £140 for combined) seem low enough, and the enthusiasm of one of my Devon FHS colleagues for the results he had obtained from GeoGene is high enough, at least to prompt me to ask whether any SOG-UK-L subscribers have any views about the merits of the GeoGene service. Cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

Has anyone else had trouble with access to the British Origins site today Monday 12th Sep? I had only been logged on a few minutes when the link failed. As I've never had any success with continuing a session after a break I'm a bit depressed about it. Eileen

Margaret, At 12:47 pm 10/09/2005 +0000, you wrote: > >Good afternoon, I am a SOG member, number 033382. For several weeks I have >been receiving unwanted emails via the SOG. They are obviously from members >but I do not know them and have not communicated with them. The subjects >they are concerned with are of no interest to me. I am getting approximately >6 a day and its becoming annoying. The email address from which they come is >the one above. I would appreciate your help in stopping these emails. >Regards Margaret Pawson You subscribed to the SoG Members' Mailing list a year ago and obviously during most of that period you have had no problem. What has changed in the last few weeks, are these messages outside the normal mailing list messages? Or have you simply had enough of the SoG list ? Regards, Geoff Geoffrey T. Stone, SoG Mailing List Administrator. lists@sog.org.uk http://www.sog.org.uk On-line retail shopping? Use http://www.buy.at/genealogists our affiliate shop and SoG gains funds at no cost to you.

Dear friends, thanks for all the thoughts on my Navy problem.. for me It's time to get back over the barrel, jim lad.. How I miss the good old Times Crossword. How about this one then? Chas Lobas..... Chamual Isle..... Germany of course its.. Chas. La bas... Channel Islands .. Gurnsey Eddy in bavaria (a Member)

well said peter... Eddy in bavar ia (A member)