At 14:31 22/11/2005, you wrote: >David Hawgood, who checked the Data Protection Act, reported: "I think >this means that a parish or a diocesan record office is exempt from data >protection provisions on baptism and marriage register information. I >don't think it means that others (such as ourselves) are exempt." >Does the SoG (or perhaps the FFHS) have any advice or guidelines on this >matter? Are there any official government rules? I totally agree with the other replies that GENUKI has nothing to fear from the DPA in this matter. There is absolutely no technical reason why Parish records should be suppressed. As always the only relevant criteria is one of common sense to anticipate who might be offended or disadvantaged. I would go further than David Hawgood to say that as parish and diocesan records are exempt, then so are others (such as ourselves) provided we have essentially the same purpose for publishing them. +Z_______________+Z_______________+Z__________________________+Z <www.adshead.com> Gordon Adshead Manchester Design Technology Beaumont House, 2 Goodrington Road, Handforth, Cheshire, SK9 3AT, England Tel:Fax:Msg:+44-1625-549770 Mob:+44-777-6145602 <gordon@adshead.com>

There are a number of local authorities who make their burial registers available online right up to the current date, so there cannot be any legal restriction on doing so! As others have said, the information from the probate indexes is freely available and often gives more personal information than is available in the burial registers. I cannot see any point in placing this restriction on GENUKI transcriptions. Regards, Peter Armstrong ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Randell" <Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:31 PM Subject: [SoG] Modern PR transcriptions > Hi: > > I'm seeking advice, wearing my hat as Chairman of the GENUKI Trustees. > > When we are offered parish register transcriptions to place in GENUKI > concerning events up to recent times, what cut off dates should we > apply, so as to avoid providing information that is too close to the > present day? (In the particular case that has prompted this question, > a burials register covering up to 1970, the church authorities have > given permission for the transcription to be made available online.) > > One rule of thumb I seem to recall is that we should not provide > information from events within the last hundred years. And if so > should this apply even to burial registers? > > David Hawgood, who checked the Data Protection Act, reported: "I > think this means that a parish or a diocesan record office is exempt > from data protection provisions on baptism and marriage register > information. I don't think it means that others (such as ourselves) > are exempt." > > Does the SoG (or perhaps the FFHS) have any advice or guidelines on > this matter? Are there any official government rules? > > Cheers > > Brian Randell > > -- > School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, > NE1 7RU, UK > EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 > FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/ > > > ______________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > >

I should be interested to learn the views of fellow-members on an ethical question. I wished to search for a relation in a piece at the P.R.O. and was required to sign a confidentiality undertaking. I did not find a reference to him, but, to my surprise, found information about another relation. I guessed, correctly, that I could learn more at another repository, and did so. I should not have consulted the documents (which are not at all confidential) at the second repository without having stumbled across the P.R.O. reference. The original information is clearly confidential until the piece becomes generally available. What, though, of the information found elsewhere? At present I have it all marked with confidential tags on my database, to reduce the likelihood of my disclosing it accidentally. The relation concerned and his children are all dead. Jeremy Wilkes

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Powys-Lybbe" <tim@powys.org> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [SoG] Modern PR transcriptions <snip> >The likes of 1837 online have indexes to GRO records up to the present >times. So there can be nothing wrong in princple with making such >records available. I think FreeBMD only operates its 100 year rule >because of some copyright from the GRO. GRO Scotland operate a different policy. Whilst the registers are available freely in Edinburgh, those indexes seen online have a cut off - 100 years certainly for births, I am unsure what it is for deaths. Chris

In message of 22 Nov, Brian Randell <Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk> wrote: > Hi: > > I'm seeking advice, wearing my hat as Chairman of the GENUKI Trustees. > > When we are offered parish register transcriptions to place in GENUKI > concerning events up to recent times, what cut off dates should we > apply, so as to avoid providing information that is too close to the > present day? (In the particular case that has prompted this question, > a burials register covering up to 1970, the church authorities have > given permission for the transcription to be made available online.) > > One rule of thumb I seem to recall is that we should not provide > information from events within the last hundred years. And if so > should this apply even to burial registers? > > David Hawgood, who checked the Data Protection Act, reported: "I > think this means that a parish or a diocesan record office is exempt > from data protection provisions on baptism and marriage register > information. I don't think it means that others (such as ourselves) > are exempt." > > Does the SoG (or perhaps the FFHS) have any advice or guidelines on > this matter? Are there any official government rules? The likes of 1837 online have indexes to GRO records up to the present times. So there can be nothing wrong in princple with making such records available. I think FreeBMD only operates its 100 year rule because of some copyright from the GRO. So the only problem is that of copyright and if the owners of the data have given it to you, then that's fine. And I think the Data Protection Act only applies to records of living people. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Since details of wills are published soon after death for anyone to read, sometimes containing personal information about both testators and beneficiaries, it makes little sense to keep burials &c confidential. Such events do not take place behind closed doors. Stephen Little ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Randell" <Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:31 PM Subject: [SoG] Modern PR transcriptions > Hi: > > I'm seeking advice, wearing my hat as Chairman of the GENUKI Trustees. > > When we are offered parish register transcriptions to place in GENUKI > concerning events up to recent times, what cut off dates should we > apply, so as to avoid providing information that is too close to the > present day? (In the particular case that has prompted this question, > a burials register covering up to 1970, the church authorities have > given permission for the transcription to be made available online.) > > One rule of thumb I seem to recall is that we should not provide > information from events within the last hundred years. And if so > should this apply even to burial registers? > > David Hawgood, who checked the Data Protection Act, reported: "I > think this means that a parish or a diocesan record office is exempt > from data protection provisions on baptism and marriage register > information. I don't think it means that others (such as ourselves) > are exempt." > > Does the SoG (or perhaps the FFHS) have any advice or guidelines on > this matter? Are there any official government rules? > > Cheers > > Brian Randell > > -- > School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, > NE1 7RU, UK > EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 > FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/ > >

Hi: I'm seeking advice, wearing my hat as Chairman of the GENUKI Trustees. When we are offered parish register transcriptions to place in GENUKI concerning events up to recent times, what cut off dates should we apply, so as to avoid providing information that is too close to the present day? (In the particular case that has prompted this question, a burials register covering up to 1970, the church authorities have given permission for the transcription to be made available online.) One rule of thumb I seem to recall is that we should not provide information from events within the last hundred years. And if so should this apply even to burial registers? David Hawgood, who checked the Data Protection Act, reported: "I think this means that a parish or a diocesan record office is exempt from data protection provisions on baptism and marriage register information. I don't think it means that others (such as ourselves) are exempt." Does the SoG (or perhaps the FFHS) have any advice or guidelines on this matter? Are there any official government rules? Cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

An unusual request! Some on this list will have made more extensive use of the Ellis Island Database than I have. I am looking for a passenger list, from that database, on which is recorded a death (or even better a birth) on the voyage - but the ship must have departed from a British port (and ideally be a British-registered vessel also) so that I can tie it up with the departing lists held in the UK. I want to use it to illustrate a genealogical talk. Does anybody have any examples? TIA Chris Watts

If anyone has lost a relative maybe they came to the US! "CastleGarden.org offers free access to an extraordinary database of information on 10 million immigrants from 1830 through 1892, the year Ellis Island opened. Over 73 million Americans can trace their ancestors to this early immigration period. " They have about1 million of 3 million records on-line as of now! http://www.castlegarden.org/index.html Edna - Ottawa

I'm interested that my original query has provoked additional questions. The ultimate site describing in detail the method of choosing the Archbishop, as originally given by Ann Wells, is: http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/ click on text under the title: The Chair of St. Augustine then on "appointment procedures" This will explain in some detail the method of choosing the next Archbishop. Cheers, Terence

John: >It is worth noting that when a book has been selected, the left hand >bookmark column has an option at the bottom to download the complete >book in 30 MB chunks, if it is long enough to so split. With a >broadband connection, a laser printer with duplex (double sided >printing) facilities and a comb binder it only takes up to half an >hour or so to produce your own copy of one of the books . . . Thanks - I'd not noted that, so its an added incentive to keep an eye on this site. Cheers Brian -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:17:03 +0000, Brian Randell <Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk> wrote: >I've just been alerted to the fact that Brigham Young University is >now providing fully searchable digitized copies of a growing number >of the LDS Libraries' family history books - see: > > http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/ Yes, it has been available for a few weeks at least - announced on 22 October on the GOONS mailing list plus a short piece in the December 2005 issue of 'Your Family Tree' magazine. The latter states that this is an initial 4,000 books (4,379 this evening) out of a total of about 200,000 without reprint or distribution restrictions to be digitised . . . It is worth noting that when a book has been selected, the left hand bookmark column has an option at the bottom to download the complete book in 30 MB chunks, if it is long enough to so split. With a broadband connection, a laser printer with duplex (double sided printing) facilities and a comb binder it only takes up to half an hour or so to produce your own copy of one of the books . . . Cheers, John John Addis-Smith Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England

In message of 13 Nov, Brian Randell <Brian.Randell@newcastle.ac.uk> wrote: > Hi: > > I've just been alerted to the fact that Brigham Young University is > now providing fully searchable digitized copies of a growing number > of the LDS Libraries' family history books - see: > > http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/ Many thanks for that. The quality of the scanning is fantastic; I can well imagine that the master scan should be of that quality, 250 dots per inch and 4 bits per pixel, but this produces humungeous files for downloading over the internet at around 750,000 bytes per page. In this country commercial operators usually manage to make very readable pages of 25,000 bytes only; even I can do this inside 40,000 bytes. I would like to think that sometime Brigham Young will go for a more practical format. (In the meantime, they must have had to buy some vast servers to hold the files and service the demand!) -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

In message of 13 Nov, MILLSC64@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/11/2005 21:52:06 GMT Standard Time, tim@powys.org > writes: > > > In message of 10 Nov, T2quirke@aol.com wrote: > > > > >Is the Archbishop elected by the bishops or appointed by the Queen? > > > > By the Prime Minister. > > > > Not quite, Tim - see the Archbishop of Canterbury's website. (Certainly not > by the bishops.) In message of 11 Nov, David Hawgood <david@hawgood.com> wrote: > > > > > > Is the Archbishop elected by the bishops or appointed by the Queen? > > http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/office/appointmentprocedures.html > describes a complicated procedure, setting up a commission, then... > * The Commission sends two names to the Prime Minister for consideration. > * Assuming he is content with them, the Prime Minister commends a name > to the Queen. (If he so wishes the Prime Minister may request a further > name or names from the Commission). Once the chosen candidate has indicated > a willingness to serve, > <http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page5681.asp>Ten Downing Street > announces the name of the Archbishop-designate. > * The Archbishop-designate is presented at a > <http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/office/../releases/2002/020723.html>news > conference. > * The Dean and Chapter of the diocese of Canterbury > <http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/office/../events/index.html>formally > elect the new Archbishop of Canterbury. In terms of real-politics, I can only see this as a prime ministerial apoointment. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

In a message dated 13/11/2005 09:41:38 GMT Standard Time, tim@powys.org writes: > In terms of real-politics, I can only see this as a prime ministerial > apoointment. > As I wrote before, this is an over-simplification. The Prime Minister has to take a short list of two; if he doesn't like the short-list, the process has to be gone through again. However, people will make their own minds up from David's e-mail and the AboC website. Regards, Colin Mills

In a message dated 10/11/2005 21:52:06 GMT Standard Time, tim@powys.org writes: > In message of 10 Nov, T2quirke@aol.com wrote: > > >Is the Archbishop elected by the bishops or appointed by the Queen? > > By the Prime Minister. > Not quite, Tim - see the Archbishop of Canterbury's website. (Certainly not by the bishops.) Regards, Colin Mills

Hi: I've just been alerted to the fact that Brigham Young University is now providing fully searchable digitized copies of a growing number of the LDS Libraries' family history books - see: http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/ You can use the form on this page to search the full text of these books. A search request (specifying a full text search) on "Clovelly", for example, provides direct links to PDF images of 18 pages from 13 different books that contain the word "Clovelly". A keyword search on "Devon" finds 9 books whose catalogue entries include the word "Devon", but a full text search on the word finds over 5000 pages containing the word. (I've not counted how many different books these come from!) A posting, from another list, provides more details: >You can go to the Brigham Young University website >http://www.lib.byu.edu/ and do searches of over 5000 books which the >Family History Library has put online.* ... the LDS Family History >Library has announced that it has begun the process of digitizing >and making available on the Internet all of the Family History >books in their collection. These are primarily books in the "929.273 >Series" that are currently housed on the first floor of the Family >History Library (previously housed on the fourth floor of the >Joseph Smith Memorial Building). At the present time (September >2005), about 5000 books have been digitized and are available, and >they have announced that they are adding about 100 titles a week >to the on-line collection. Copyright issues are playing a role in >determining the order in which they progress through this task; >books out of copyright are being done first. > >As these Family History books are digitized and placed on-line, an >entry is being placed in the Family History Library on-line catalog >with a hyperlink to the digitized image. By going to the FHL >On-Line Catalog, you can search for a specific name, find a book >that has been indexed using the name, and view it on-line, flipping >through the pages as separate "pdf" images, much the same as if you >were on the first floor of the Family History Library. > >Of course, the indexing that is available through the FHL Catalog >is only as good as the human indexers made it; typically they only >include the "top" 4 to 6 names that appear in each book in their >indexing efforts. But there is even better news! > >The digitized images of these Family History books are actually >being stored on the electronic servers at Brigham Young University >in Provo, Utah. > >By going directly to the BYU web site to view the images, there are >several additional possibilities that provide genealogists >functionality that they have never had before. You are now able to >do full-text searches on each book, and on every digitized book in >the collection. Now you can locate the small two-paragraph entry on >Grandpa Ebenezer McGarrah that is buried in one of the Family >History books that you would have otherwise never thought to look >at before. This can open up a huge new possibility for extending >lines, getting past brick walls, and uncovering new relatives! > >How to Find The Digitized Images? > >Go to the web site of the Harold B. Lee Library at BYU at >http://www.lib.byu.edu/ on their home page, follow the link "Find >Other Materials/Electronic/On Line Collections at BYU". Click on the >"Text Collections" tab and select the "Family History Archive" from >the list of collections that are displayed. (Direct link: >http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/) > >You would then normally want to use the "Search All" feature with >the "Search Full Text" box checked, although the "Advanced Search" >will allow very high-powered searches that will allow certain >phrases to be searched for and other words to be used to exclude >potential hits. As you make selections from the "hits" that are >displayed, you will need to use the "Click Here to View >Item" button near the top of the screen to display the actual image >of the page. You can page through the entire document using the >index displayed on the left side of the screen. Each page may be >printed after being viewed. > >One interesting sidelight is, when you are at the first web page >for the Family History Archive (the page that lets you begin a >search), click on the "Browse the Collection" button. This will >display every Family History book that has been digitized and is >available in the collection. > >You can scroll through this list much the same as if you were >walking up and down the stacks at the library. At the top of the >first page of the search results, it displays the number of hits, >which (in this case) is the number of books in the collection. If >you keep track of this number, you can get a pretty good idea of >how fast they are adding titles to the collection as you revisit the >web site from time to time. I think you will want to visit this >site often as the collection grows!" cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

Hi Listers: There are approximately 22 000 British servicemen who served in the Boer war who are buried in South Africa. The Cape Argus November 19, 2005 reports: 1. That the cast iron crosses bearing the names & which locate the burial site of a loved one are being stolen by vandals. Approximately 400 crosses yields Stg 300 2. Some museums have uplifted crosses from some cemetaries to prevent their disappearence. The locations from which they have been taken have apparently not being marked. It you have an antecedent buried In South Africa may I suggest that you get the location marked & a photograph taken. (I'm not a photographer) Regards, Keith Kendal Cape Town

> > > Is the Archbishop elected by the bishops or appointed by the Queen? http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/office/appointmentprocedures.html describes a complicated procedure, setting up a commission, then... * The Commission sends two names to the Prime Minister for consideration. * Assuming he is content with them, the Prime Minister commends a name to the Queen. (If he so wishes the Prime Minister may request a further name or names from the Commission). Once the chosen candidate has indicated a willingness to serve, <http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page5681.asp>Ten Downing Street announces the name of the Archbishop-designate. * The Archbishop-designate is presented at a <http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/office/../releases/2002/020723.html>news conference. * The Dean and Chapter of the diocese of Canterbury <http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/office/../events/index.html>formally elect the new Archbishop of Canterbury. regards, David Hawgood

Thanks to those who offered help. The website suggested by Ann Wells solved the question 100 percent. Thanks Terence