> The problem is that we all like to use the indexes, not just as a pointing > aid to the original documents, but as data in its own right. eg it is > probably rather dangerous to use the index to work out ratios of surname > variants etc. To use Ancestry's indexes for any statistical purpose would produce results even more bizarre than our government's assessments of just about anything! To instance my own one name study, about 25% of AINSLEY variants are mistranscribed in their indexes over the 5 census they've indexed (excluding the 1841) - and thats only the surnames! If one takes into account the other data they claim to have indexed, I suspect the figure for accurate transcriptions of any one record is around 30% given the consistent misspellings of place names - although I've not bothered to record these for analysis. The transcription quality is abysmal, and I am frequently only able to find "missing persons" by having a very good idea of where they are - BUT - the images are there, and are generally of good quality, which means I dont have to travel to view them and with cunning investigation can often even find the persons i want! I loathe Ancestry and thir brash commercialisation of our hobby - but I reluctantly pay their subscription because it does save me money and time. Hugh Ainsley - the AINSLEY one name study -GOOONS #3926

> I'm still waiting for my local 1851 census (HO107/2503 folios 15 to > 378) to appear. These pages are not missing and are available on > microfilm at local family history centres, so why not at Ancestry??? > > Comments made on various other lists would suggest that I am not alone > in waiting for 'ommitted' census pages. :-) Certainly not! Even the later 1901 has gaps, but Ancestry are very coy about when these will be filled. However, to be fair, I was only recently aware that souvenir hunters had removed a number of original pages in the days before they were microfilmed. Adrian

At 18:35 24/04/2006, Jeanne Bunting wrote: >Of course, the indexes could be improved considerably if they would only >improve the correction process, admit that the indexing is bad and allow >corrections rather than "alternative names". They should also allow >corrections to all fields - not just the surname. Clearly Ancestry are erring in the direction of:- Quickly produced, somewhat inaccurate, indexes pointing at scans of the original documents. With the benefit of hindsight it might have been quite sensible for them to provide some sort of secondary index that can be freely "improved" by anybody directly on line. To avoid the effects of gross abuse, the main search facility would have the option to use or exclude the secondary index. The problem is that we all like to use the indexes, not just as a pointing aid to the original documents, but as data in its own right. eg it is probably rather dangerous to use the index to work out ratios of surname variants etc. In the case where an original document has obscure handwriting and a name or a place could be one of several possibilities, I would rather that the index "integrity" was compromised by indexing all possible options, which of course is done at the price of limiting the value of any statistics derived from the index alone. +Z_______________+Z_______________+Z__________________________+Z <www.adshead.com> Gordon Adshead Manchester Design Technology Beaumont House, 2 Goodrington Road, Handforth, Cheshire, SK9 3AT, England Tel:Fax:Msg:+44-1625-549770 Mob:+44-777-6145602 <gordon@adshead.com>

If all runs to plan - John Hanson interviewed by Huw Edwards on BBC NEWS 24 at 17:45 BST today!! Chris Broomfield, Webmaster, Society of Genealogists, London webmaster@sog.org.uk www.sog.org.uk Search the Library Catalogue from home. Use www.sog.org.uk/sogcat/ On-line retail shopping? Use www.buy.at/genealogists our affiliate shop and SoG gains funds at no cost to you

In message of 24 Apr, "Chris" <chris@masquerade.demon.co.uk> wrote: > Good day, > > A contact of mine has been using Gary Boyd ROBERTS' “ The > Descents of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the > United States” as a reference. Does anyone on this list > have knowledge of this work and a view as to its accuracy? The simple way of doing this is to see how he provides his references. If he provides no references, then forget it. Though he may, like Burke, be a useful resource to give you names to look up elsewhere to see what can actually be found about them. If he provides a jumble of assorted references at the end of each person of pedigree of persons, then he is just trying to blind you with science. If he provides you with a footnoted reference for each fact about a person, then he is trying hard and you know exactly where to go to check up on what it said and to see if it agrees with his presented facts. If the footnotes are to other books, then not so good as you may have to go to those books to find out how to check on or extend his reported facts. If his footnotes are to books of abstracts or transcripts of original documents, then it is pretty good but you may have to ask yourself how well the author of those books made the abstracts or the transcripts. If his footnotes refer to publicly available documents of the time of the people concerned, then bingo! He is really trying to ensure that his material is factual. But it may still be worth while having a look at one or two of these that you can access to see if he has read them carefully enough. Obviously these criteria may need a little re-working - they are just off the top of my head! -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Good day, A contact of mine has been using Gary Boyd ROBERTS' “ The Descents of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States” as a reference. Does anyone on this list have knowledge of this work and a view as to its accuracy? regards Chris

John Hanson wrote: > Just to let you all know that Ancestry.co.uk now as the 1841 there. > Hi John, According to BBC's teletext service today this is "the last of those available to the public to appear online in full". Note the words "in full"!!! I can only assume this phrase came from an Ancestry press release but is far from the case. I'm still waiting for my local 1851 census (HO107/2503 folios 15 to 378) to appear. These pages are not missing and are available on microfilm at local family history centres, so why not at Ancestry??? Comments made on various other lists would suggest that I am not alone in waiting for 'ommitted' census pages. Ian

>If all runs to plan - John Hanson interviewed by Huw Edwards on BBC < Well he came over well, gave the Family History Show a good plug but lost the opportunity to say how bad the indexes are!! Jeanne Bunting

>Comments made on various other lists would suggest that I am not alone in waiting for 'ommitted' census pages.< Writers to other mailing lists are speculating on what Ancestry should do next. My suggestion would be to improve what is there already before they jump into something else. Other companies learn from their mistakes and improve the next batch of indexing, but not so with Ancestry. There are (proportionally) just as many female Williams in the 1841 census (6224) as there are in the other censuses - more in fact. Just as many Geroges (1901) and just as many wierd surnames and first names. Of course, the indexes could be improved considerably if they would only improve the correction process, admit that the indexing is bad and allow corrections rather than "alternative names". They should also allow corrections to all fields - not just the surname. Oh well, back to my "Why Can't I find Them?" lecture where I can include a whole new batch of examples from the 1841 census! Jeanne Bunting

From another site - Edna ~ rainy Ottawa ---- "Forwarded with permission: David Hale of Mapco is making Lewis's 1840 map of England & Wales available on-line free here; http://archivemaps.com/mapco/lewis/lewis.htm It is an incredibly detailed, extremely high quality map. The original comprises four separate maps. Three of these have already been added to the site and I have just been advised by David that the final one, the south-east region will be added by the beginning of next week. I suggest that anyone with an interest in that area bookmark the site and check back then. Clicking on a section of the map produces an enlarged image in four segments each of which can be clicked on to further enlarge that particular segment. The individual segments can be downloaded (for personal use only). Despite the very considerable additional work this entailed, David chose this format in order to reduce file sizes which would otherwise be far too large to open or download for people with dial-up connections. I have no connection with David or his site other than a great admiration for his efforts in making this truly tremendous map available on-line for all to see and use. There are also many other old maps, charts and engravings either currently available on the site or in the pipeline for addition later this year. Some of the London maps currently available are especially fine."

Thanks Edna - this is really a super site! Thanks for sharing. Ann Edna <ekbrit@rogers.com> wrote: >From another site - Edna ~ rainy Ottawa ---- "Forwarded with permission: David Hale of Mapco is making Lewis's 1840 map of England & Wales available on-line free here; http://archivemaps.com/mapco/lewis/lewis.htm It is an incredibly detailed, extremely high quality map. The original comprises four separate maps. Three of these have already been added to the site and I have just been advised by David that the final one, the south-east region will be added by the beginning of next week. I suggest that anyone with an interest in that area bookmark the site and check back then. Clicking on a section of the map produces an enlarged image in four segments each of which can be clicked on to further enlarge that particular segment. The individual segments can be downloaded (for personal use only). Despite the very considerable additional work this entailed, David chose this format in order to reduce file sizes which would otherwise be far too large to open or download for people with dial-up connections. I have no connection with David or his site other than a great admiration for his efforts in making this truly tremendous map available on-line for all to see and use. There are also many other old maps, charts and engravings either currently available on the site or in the pipeline for addition later this year. Some of the London maps currently available are especially fine." Ann L. Wells Wells Research Associates Midwest Genealogy Research http://genealogypro.com/wells-research.html

Thanks Edna - this is really a super site! Thanks for sharing. Ann Edna <ekbrit@rogers.com> wrote: >From another site - Edna ~ rainy Ottawa ---- "Forwarded with permission: David Hale of Mapco is making Lewis's 1840 map of England & Wales available on-line free here; http://archivemaps.com/mapco/lewis/lewis.htm It is an incredibly detailed, extremely high quality map. The original comprises four separate maps. Three of these have already been added to the site and I have just been advised by David that the final one, the south-east region will be added by the beginning of next week. I suggest that anyone with an interest in that area bookmark the site and check back then. Clicking on a section of the map produces an enlarged image in four segments each of which can be clicked on to further enlarge that particular segment. The individual segments can be downloaded (for personal use only). Despite the very considerable additional work this entailed, David chose this format in order to reduce file sizes which would otherwise be far too large to open or download for people with dial-up connections. I have no connection with David or his site other than a great admiration for his efforts in making this truly tremendous map available on-line for all to see and use. There are also many other old maps, charts and engravings either currently available on the site or in the pipeline for addition later this year. Some of the London maps currently available are especially fine." Ann L. Wells Wells Research Associates Midwest Genealogy Research http://genealogypro.com/wells-research.html

Just to let you all know that Ancestry.co.uk now as the 1841 there. This means that it iw available free on the Internet Suite in the Lower Library Regards John Hanson

Hi, SKS just sent me this, as she described it as "right up our alley"... http://www.livgenmi.com/gardinertoc.htm Edna - sunny Ottawa

Many thanks John and Ruth, I took a break from C18th newspaper transcription to have a further look at Thomson Gale, (I'd been through the Times Online last year...) and found another handful of references for my ONS. I should also compliment British Origins, having added some 1841 Census Indexes , I managed to find several "Middlesex" Ancestors who had eluded me, which I've managed to access through my SOG login no less ! Regards Richard J Heaton ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Addis-Smith" <genl@addisgen.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 3:07 PM Subject: [SoG] Online Thomson Gale Databases > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:29:57 +0100, Ruth <historyscape@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>I haven't noticed anyone mentioning the current free access to the >>Gale Group's databases which is running throughout April. Have a look >>at: >>http://trials.galegroup.com/nlw2006/portal.html >> >>I can particularly recommend the Eighteenth Century Collections >>database (under History, Biography and Literature) > > I can also recommend: > > The Making of the Modern Economy > --------------------------------------------------- > "The Making of the Modern Economy: Goldsmiths'-Kress Library of > Economic Literature 1450-1850" provides digital facsimile images on > every page of 61,000 works of literature on economic and business > published from 1450 through 1850. Full-text searching on more than 12 > million pages provides researchers unparalleled access to this vast > collection of material on commerce, finance, social conditions, > politics, trade and transport. > > They have taken copies of books from London University's Goldsmiths' > Library and Harvard University's Kress Library, and cover the periods > prior to the 18th century plus the first half of the19th century which > the 'Eighteenth Century Collections' obviously does not cover. > > As Ruth has indicated there are some amazing resources hidden in these > databases. I would add to her list: Law Lists and Commercial > Directories. > > We have been using these resources for months and have saved hundreds > of items, ranging in size from single book pages (together with the > corresponding title page), through small pamphlets, complete book > chapters and even complete books of several hundred pages. > > Here are some tips for those not familiar with the Gale Group of > online databases: > > - Select 'Full Text' from the drop down list for 'Search Type', or > else you will be searching only from the bibliographic details of the > books (title, author, subject, etc). For the 'Times Digital Archive' > default search option select: 'Search for words in entire article > content' > > - select the 'Advanced Search' option if you want to be more > selective. This is particularly useful for the Times Digital Archive > when you have a common name, as you can then select the 'People' > section or even a People sub-section such as 'Marriages' > > - if a surname you wish to search is too common so that you need to > use a forename as well, just enter both words together. The search > mechanism will find them if adjacent (or even if only within a few > characters of each other in the Times search) in the original text. > However because of errors in the Optical Character Reading (OCR) some > such text pairs will be missed. For the same reason stringing more > than two words together in a search string leads to diminishing > returns! > > - If you want to save and/or print pages from a book make sure you > select the highest value from the 'Scale' drop down list - the latter > only appears once you have a facsimile page on screen. The highest > scale value is usually 100 per cent (400 per cent for the Times > Digital Archive) > > - to save a facsimile page right click on its image on the screen (do > NOT try and save the whole web page) and select 'Save Picture As' > option from the pop up menu. With Windows XP you can also just click > on the floppy disk icon that should pop up when you hover your cursor > over the facsimile page picture. Be careful when saving the Times. > Generally select 'Article' rather than 'Page' from the results list. > (If you save a full Times page it is just readable if printed out on > an A3 printer . . . ) When saving an article be sure that you get the > correct part of the page, as some articles have been scanned in > separate sections, but appear together on screen - so hover cursor > over the column containing what you want to save and right click, etc. > There is a problem that the Times Reference appears towards the top > left of the screen and the part of the page you are interested in may > appear well away from this area - I take notes before combining the > reference with a short description of the subject of interest into the > full saved image name, eg: > Addis, George Thorburn - Apptd to Straits Settlements Legislative > Assembly - Times 13 Feb 1886 Pg.10 Col. A, Issue 31682.png > > - the saved Times 'article' can vary in size from a few lines to a > whole page. So I generally crop the section of interest from the saved > image in order to obtain a printed image, or series of images, which > is/are easy to read. I find the graphics program 'ACDC' fastest for > this purpose, but most graphics programs are suitable. > > > Cheers, John > > John Addis-Smith > Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England > >

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:29:57 +0100, Ruth <historyscape@gmail.com> wrote: >I haven't noticed anyone mentioning the current free access to the >Gale Group's databases which is running throughout April. Have a look >at: >http://trials.galegroup.com/nlw2006/portal.html > >I can particularly recommend the Eighteenth Century Collections >database (under History, Biography and Literature) I can also recommend: The Making of the Modern Economy --------------------------------------------------- "The Making of the Modern Economy: Goldsmiths'-Kress Library of Economic Literature 1450-1850" provides digital facsimile images on every page of 61,000 works of literature on economic and business published from 1450 through 1850. Full-text searching on more than 12 million pages provides researchers unparalleled access to this vast collection of material on commerce, finance, social conditions, politics, trade and transport. They have taken copies of books from London University's Goldsmiths' Library and Harvard University's Kress Library, and cover the periods prior to the 18th century plus the first half of the19th century which the 'Eighteenth Century Collections' obviously does not cover. As Ruth has indicated there are some amazing resources hidden in these databases. I would add to her list: Law Lists and Commercial Directories. We have been using these resources for months and have saved hundreds of items, ranging in size from single book pages (together with the corresponding title page), through small pamphlets, complete book chapters and even complete books of several hundred pages. Here are some tips for those not familiar with the Gale Group of online databases: - Select 'Full Text' from the drop down list for 'Search Type', or else you will be searching only from the bibliographic details of the books (title, author, subject, etc). For the 'Times Digital Archive' default search option select: 'Search for words in entire article content' - select the 'Advanced Search' option if you want to be more selective. This is particularly useful for the Times Digital Archive when you have a common name, as you can then select the 'People' section or even a People sub-section such as 'Marriages' - if a surname you wish to search is too common so that you need to use a forename as well, just enter both words together. The search mechanism will find them if adjacent (or even if only within a few characters of each other in the Times search) in the original text. However because of errors in the Optical Character Reading (OCR) some such text pairs will be missed. For the same reason stringing more than two words together in a search string leads to diminishing returns! - If you want to save and/or print pages from a book make sure you select the highest value from the 'Scale' drop down list - the latter only appears once you have a facsimile page on screen. The highest scale value is usually 100 per cent (400 per cent for the Times Digital Archive) - to save a facsimile page right click on its image on the screen (do NOT try and save the whole web page) and select 'Save Picture As' option from the pop up menu. With Windows XP you can also just click on the floppy disk icon that should pop up when you hover your cursor over the facsimile page picture. Be careful when saving the Times. Generally select 'Article' rather than 'Page' from the results list. (If you save a full Times page it is just readable if printed out on an A3 printer . . . ) When saving an article be sure that you get the correct part of the page, as some articles have been scanned in separate sections, but appear together on screen - so hover cursor over the column containing what you want to save and right click, etc. There is a problem that the Times Reference appears towards the top left of the screen and the part of the page you are interested in may appear well away from this area - I take notes before combining the reference with a short description of the subject of interest into the full saved image name, eg: Addis, George Thorburn - Apptd to Straits Settlements Legislative Assembly - Times 13 Feb 1886 Pg.10 Col. A, Issue 31682.png - the saved Times 'article' can vary in size from a few lines to a whole page. So I generally crop the section of interest from the saved image in order to obtain a printed image, or series of images, which is/are easy to read. I find the graphics program 'ACDC' fastest for this purpose, but most graphics programs are suitable. Cheers, John John Addis-Smith Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England

I haven't noticed anyone mentioning the current free access to the Gale Group's databases which is running throughout April. Have a look at: http://trials.galegroup.com/nlw2006/portal.html I can particularly recommend the Eighteenth Century Collections database (under History, Biography and Literature) which is an amazing searchable resource of 18th century publications, including poll books, the Gentleman's Magazine, topographic classics and even a Gothic novel written by a distant cousin of mine which the British Library doesn't even have! I've just turned up a mention of a gravestone in Kingston upon Thames parish church. It relates to the wife of my 1st cousin 14 times removed, Robert Sharpeigh. I'd be very grateful if someone could confirm my interpretation of it as my Latin is somewhat rusty... Specifically, am I right in thinking she died on 9 Sep 1629, aged 60 years and 4 months? "On a black Grave-Stone underneath, in Capitals, is this Inscription; Vixi, & quem dederit Cursum, Deus ipse peregi. Hic jacet Corpus Dominae Mariae Sharpeigh, Uxoris Rob. Sharp. Militis, filia fuit Caroli Scott, Armigeri Cantiae, & Uxoris ejus Janae Wyat, ex utraque familia Illustris vixit Annos 60, Menses 4, Spiritum Christo Resignavit Sept. 9, 1629, Et succubuit Annorum & Charitatis plena, Et jam laeta mei Caelo requiescit Imago. O quantis liberasti me Jesu?" Many thanks, Ruth

I bow to superior knowledge! Geoff -----Original Message----- From: John Moore [mailto:john.moore6@tesco.net] Sent: 15 April 2006 16:21 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SoG] Re: Duplicate marriages? Geoff, Not more than 15 minutes walk apart. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Beach" <geoff@beachfamily.plus.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 2:06 PM Subject: RE: [SoG] Re: Duplicate marriages? | As the initiator of this thread, Thomas' 3rd marriage was at Bermondsey, (St | Mary Magdalene Anglican Church)in October 1810, and later he marries the | same spinster with the same name in Southwark (St George the Martyr Anglican | Church) in June 1811; also they are almost in walking distance of each | other. So I am still wondering!! | Geoff | South Wales

Geoff, Not more than 15 minutes walk apart. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Beach" <geoff@beachfamily.plus.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 2:06 PM Subject: RE: [SoG] Re: Duplicate marriages? | As the initiator of this thread, Thomas' 3rd marriage was at Bermondsey, (St | Mary Magdalene Anglican Church)in October 1810, and later he marries the | same spinster with the same name in Southwark (St George the Martyr Anglican | Church) in June 1811; also they are almost in walking distance of each | other. So I am still wondering!! | Geoff | South Wales

As the initiator of this thread, Thomas' 3rd marriage was at Bermondsey, (St Mary Magdalene Anglican Church)in October 1810, and later he marries the same spinster with the same name in Southwark (St George the Martyr Anglican Church) in June 1811; also they are almost in walking distance of each other. So I am still wondering!! Geoff South Wales