I am researching one of my husband's ancestors, a William Donkersley whose father was a Private in the British Army who was at one stage was guarding convicts on a convict ship from UK to Australia and presumably at a convict camp in Australia. After years of hunting his birth registration, I have now found William Donkersley named in an Census as having a birthplace of Vasse, Western Australia c. 1844 and in another Census as Thevase, Western Australia c. 1844. In an English Census William Donkersley has given his birthplace as Swan River. I cannot find Thevase or Vasse on an atlas. Has anyone out there any idea where I can track down where Thevase or Vasse is, and where I can find out the original Census which is the source of this information or possibly where his birth registration might be (he's not registered in any of the British Army birth records). Many thanks Sue Holden

In article <003e01c67683$f10a1140$9cd687d9@v3a3j5>, DJ & S Holden <djs@holden32.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > Has anyone out there any idea where I can track down where Thevase > or Vasse is, and where I can find out the original Census which > is the source of this information or possibly where his birth > registration might be (he's not registered in any of the British > Army birth records). Vasse is in a very lovely part of Western Australia - the Margaret River region - i.e. bottom left extremity of the continent. Enter ... Vasse +Australia ... into Google and you will get much more information than I could repeat here. Thomas Vasse was a French sailor who drowned there in 1801. Vasse is also a place in the Netherlands. Can't help you on the census, I am afraid. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Derrick G Porter derrick@pluckrose.org ..... in deepest Sussex ..... Tel: +44(0) 1798 81 2383 Time to spare? ... visit www.pluckrose.org or www.ppl.org.uk ___________________________________________________________________________

Hi Don, Do you have access to the Ancestry website? There is a marriage of Doyle Courtenay Bell in Lambeth in December quarter 1862 and the brides appearing on the same page are Jane Pardy & Amelia Sampson. The reference is Dec 1862 Lambeth 1d 588. These come up in a census search 1841 Doyne Bell b. 1830 residence Kent 1851 Doyne C Bell b. 1845 Residence Middlesex (age could be mistranscribed??) 1861 Doyne Courtney Bell b. 1831 Middlesex, Residence Middlesex 1871 Doyce Coutenay Bell b. 1831 Middlesex, residence London I don't have a current subscription, so can't look at the images, but there may be information about his wife and any children. Hope this helps, Celia

Jane Thank you for the suggestion. Do you know where it is to be found and is it openly accessible? Garth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Hammond" <trident@btconnect.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [SoG] Searching for clerics 1780 > The Royal Household Archives? > > Jane Brown, Putney > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "garth swanson" <garth.swanson@ntlworld.com> > To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 6:38 AM > Subject: [SoG] Searching for clerics 1780 > > >>I am interested to learn more about a Reverend Booty who occupied a grace >>and favour apartment at Hampton Court Palace in 1780. >> >> I wonder if anyone can suggest leads and sources please. >> >> Garth - Surrey >> >> > > ______________________________

Hi Don Write to The Royal Archives at Windsor Castle, Berkshire, SL4 1NJ. Even if you don't get any additional information, you will get an impressive letterhead and reply envelope to add to your collection. Happy hunting Russell -----Original Message----- From: Don Montague [mailto:don.montague@virgin.net] Sent: 11 May 2006 11:40 To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SoG] Re: Doyne Courtenay BELL Jane suggested: >The Royal Household Archives? Hmmm. How do I stick my nose into these? I'd like to know more about my 2C3R than Boase tells me:

Jane suggested: >The Royal Household Archives? Hmmm. How do I stick my nose into these? I'd like to know more about my 2C3R than Boase tells me: BELL, DOYNE COURTENAY (son of a wine merchant). b. Gower Street, London, 1830; educ. King's College School, London and at Brunswick; selected by Prince Albert to assist in correspondence connected with the privy purse, Permanent Secretary to H.M.'s Privy Purse 1876 to death; sec. to committee for erecting memorial to prince consort in Hyde park 1862; a great authority upon historical portraiture; F.S.A. 1876; author of "The Albert memorial: a descriptive and illustrative account of the national monument at Kensington 1873"; "Notices of the historic persons buried in the chapel of St. Peter ad vincula in the Tower of London; with account of discovery of supposed remains of Anne Boleyn 1877." d. Lower Grosvenor place, London 26 March 1888; buried Norwood cemetery. [Sources] Proc. of Soc. of Antiq., vol xii, page 140 (1888); Times 16 Apr. 1888 p.12." He appears in the 1881 Census as a widower, and what I'd REALLY like to know is whom he married & whether they had any descendants . . . Don Montague whose mother was a BELL ********************* PS Have also found an Obit in The Times, and that he was living as a widower at the Royal Mews, St George Hanover Square, London, Middx, England, at the 1881 Census. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/335 - Release Date: 09/05/2006

forwarded from Else Churchill: Anyone with satellite TV may be interested in the fact that Legal TV (recently launched through SKY TV - channel 885) is featuring family history in its regular family law slot transmitted live at 1-1.30pm on Thursday 11 May. The SoG is to be featured and the Genealogy Officer is one of those who will be interviewed. The subject is proposed to be “Tracing your Family Tree” and will include an introduction and perhaps briefly mention how the Freedom of Information Act has influenced genealogy and also look at probate or Intestacy research Ian

The Royal Household Archives? Jane Brown, Putney ----- Original Message ----- From: "garth swanson" <garth.swanson@ntlworld.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 6:38 AM Subject: [SoG] Searching for clerics 1780 >I am interested to learn more about a Reverend Booty who occupied a grace > and favour apartment at Hampton Court Palace in 1780. > > I wonder if anyone can suggest leads and sources please. > > Garth - Surrey > > >

I am interested to learn more about a Reverend Booty who occupied a grace and favour apartment at Hampton Court Palace in 1780. I wonder if anyone can suggest leads and sources please. Garth - Surrey

> I wyll that they ?shalle/shalbe ?[bescomd] for the wellthe of my > soule by my executors' "Bestowd" would make sense... Some sort of clause requesting the executors to dispose of the estate "for the health of my soul (and all Christian souls)" was quite common at the time - it often implied the executors were to give money to the poor or to the church in the deceased's memory. Hector Davie

Bestowed ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

> -----Original Message----- > From: La Greenall [mailto:animaus@ntlworld.com] A quick afterthought... > So what could "bescomd" be?... > ...could we then have something like 'best compenced' - > as in the modern 'recompensed'? 'Best compensated' would seem a more likely transliteration into modern language than 'best recompensed' - the '...ated' ending could well be later than the 16th century, leaving us with 'compensed'. Looking up 'compense' and its relatives in a good dictionary makes me even more assured of this. Lawrence. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Ha Haa! Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006

Hi Mango. I can only attempt a bit of logic as a complete amateur; I have however recently been transcribing churchwardens' accounts and one or two wills from the same period in another location, as well as several wills of different periods here and there. I don't think there are two separate bequests; to my mind, going by a vague familiarity with the language of old wills gained through transcriptions I've made over the years, I would say that Thomas H was to get both the sixpence and the residue of goods. I would suggest that the phrase 'I will' (or more likely 'I Will') signifies the start of a further, separate wish of the testator. Such a device is often found in other wills, alongside the use of 'Item'. It always has a capital W, as far as I am aware. So what does this last bit mean then? I think it might be some sort of concluding comment made after a list of bequests that all of them, not only the 'residue' given in your transcript, be "bescomd" in the best possible manner for the well-being, or spiritual health (expressed as "wealth") of the testator's soul, presumably on its impending journey in the afterlife. This will was written just post-Dissolution, so it would be reasonable to guess that the person's sentiments were still fairly Catholic at heart, assuming he died at a reasonable age and only witnessed the new religion during a very small part of his life; in this case 'the afterlife' as I put it would have been purgatory. Of course I might be wrong - he could well have been Protestant; other sections of the will should identify which. So what could "bescomd" be? I repeat I can only guess, but I would say it probably includes truncation of a word and might also join more than one word together. Bearing in mind your observations on the final d being similar to the symbol for 'pence', could we then have something like 'best compenced' - as in the modern 'recompensed'? In other words, I think the testator was asking his executors to make as much increase (profit) as they could when dealing with his estate, which could well have included rentals, property fines, live and deadstock, and so on. He could even have profited in some way from the recent dispersal of monastic building materials and property. It seems that the testator believed that the 'worth' of his own soul, in the eyes of its creator, would be weighed, or weighted at any rate, according to these 'gains'. Just a guess; hope it's one that takes you a step further. Regards, Lawrence Greenall. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mango Chutney [mailto:trilobyte.uk@btinternet.com] > Sent: 07 May 2006 12:12 > To: SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SoG] Interpretation of will > > > I am transcribing the 1543 will of John NASON parson of > Hampton Poyle, > Oxon and request suggestions for a particularly obscure word. The > context is the following clause: > > 'It[em] to Thomas ?Haygn vj pence and the residue of all my > goods I wyll > that they ?shalle/shalbe ?[bescomd] for the wellthe of my > soule by my > executors' > > The word 'bescomd' is the one in question. The proposed spelling is > consistent with the scribe's hand elsewhere in the document - for > example the minims of the 'm' are identical with the 'm' in > 'my'. The > only peculiarity immediately evident to me is that the final 'd' is > identical with the symbol denoting 'pence' in bequests of specific > amounts of money. Can anyone suggest what this word might > actually be? > > The other doubt in my mind in this particular clause is that > it appears > to contain two separate bequests, one of 6 pence to Thomas > ?Haygn and a > second of the residue of his goods. All other bequests are > preceded by > 'It[e]' yet this second part does not. It might, therefore, be > interpreted that Thomas Haygn also gets the residue of the > goods - but > then the remainder of the clause is then without an object. > > I will be grateful for any advice and, if an interest is piqued, can > provide a PDF of the peccant clause.! > > MC > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release > Date: 05/05/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Ha Haa! Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006

I am transcribing the 1543 will of John NASON parson of Hampton Poyle, Oxon and request suggestions for a particularly obscure word. The context is the following clause: 'It[em] to Thomas ?Haygn vj pence and the residue of all my goods I wyll that they ?shalle/shalbe ?[bescomd] for the wellthe of my soule by my executors' The word 'bescomd' is the one in question. The proposed spelling is consistent with the scribe's hand elsewhere in the document - for example the minims of the 'm' are identical with the 'm' in 'my'. The only peculiarity immediately evident to me is that the final 'd' is identical with the symbol denoting 'pence' in bequests of specific amounts of money. Can anyone suggest what this word might actually be? The other doubt in my mind in this particular clause is that it appears to contain two separate bequests, one of 6 pence to Thomas ?Haygn and a second of the residue of his goods. All other bequests are preceded by 'It[e]' yet this second part does not. It might, therefore, be interpreted that Thomas Haygn also gets the residue of the goods - but then the remainder of the clause is then without an object. I will be grateful for any advice and, if an interest is piqued, can provide a PDF of the peccant clause.! MC

Hi Patricia, Thank you for your suggestion, someone else thought it was either bootmaker or bookmaker, thinking about it I can now understand why I thought the second word was Kerse! From Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. E-Mail: merryl.wells@one-name.org GOONS Mem. No. 1757. Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock; Moist/Moyst; Mem. of Wells Assn. (GOONS Reg.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Ward" <patricia@teepee32.freeserve.co.uk> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 02 May 2006 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [SoG] Bortrira/Bovhna Kerse Assist. > I think it reads 'Bootmakers Assistant' > Patricia > > On May 1, 2006, at 11:50, Merryl Gullick (by way of Geoffrey > <lists@sog.org.uk>) wrote: > > > I've been looking on the 'complete' 1891 census at 1837online and > > everytime > > I try to print a census page very little of it appears and my 'Hard > > disk is > > full' comes up, a problem of which I am aware, but consequently tried > > to > > hand copy the entries for which they had already taken units. One I'm > > absolutely stumped on is the trade of a 17 year old who eventually > > became a > > Clerk/Accountant. His brother aged 14 was a Hairdressers apprentice > > and > > this was in Newport, Mons. I've tried Google on just Kerse and Kerse > > Assistant and > > nothing appears, and am absolutely stuck on the first word, almost > > sure it > > starts with 'B' - anyone any ideas? > > > > Another thought, is if someone with access to 1891 on Ancestry would > > be kind > > enough to see what they came up with, the boy is William H.M. ROSS born > > Newport at 35 Duckpool Road, Newport - sorry I forgot to take down the > > reference. > > > > From > > Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. > > E-Mail: merryl.wells@one-name.org > > GOONS Mem. No. 1757. Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock; Moist/Moyst; > > Mem. of Wells Assn. (GOONS Reg.) > > > > > > > > > > This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos > > anti-virus technology > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: > > 16/09/2005 > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > > This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos anti-virus technology -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 16/09/2005

The Gale Group National Library Week trial was a huge success for me - I'll be sorting records into context for weeks - but it (as usual) prompted as many questions as it provided answers. For instance: I found the report of a case in the Court of Queen's Bench in 1852 - WILLERTON v HALEY. The report merely refers to the litigants as 'plaintiff' and 'defendant' without giving a clue as to which was which. Am I correct to assume that the plaintiff would be the first one named, i.e. that WILLERTON was the plaintiff and HALEY the defendant? The case involved a ship named as the Lord John Russell. Could someone point me to a web site where I might find some information about this vessell? Thanks in advance, people, and good luck to all. Jim ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

Hi: I have received this query: At 17:25 -0400 3/5/06, Ryan Taylor wrote: >Hi Brian: I hope you don't mind me approaching you about this but I >needed an academic mind to help! >I have seen a couple of examples from the upcomign edition of Elizabeth >Mills' Evidence, the basic book for genealogical citations in North >America. She has decided to expand her purview to include Britain, which >may be unwise, as her knowledge seems limited. (as e.g. she refers to >'Surry County' as a place in England...) >Is there a place I can look to find an already-established form for >citing 1837online.com? Her example cites the civil registration entries >using the form month/district/vol/page in the form >June 1849 Barnstaple 5a : 928 >I would tend to put the district first. What do you think? >many thanks for your help. Ryan Taylor >... >Ryan Taylor >Genealogy Cataloger, Allen County Public LIbrary >Fort Wayne IN >rtaylor@acpl.lib.in.us I've not corresponded with Ryan before, but know how well-respected in US Genealogy circles the Allen County Public LIbrary is, and regard his question worthwhile, so I thought it appropriate to pass it on to SOG-UK-L, and ask anyone who can help to respond directly to: "Ryan Taylor" <Rtaylor@acpl.lib.in.us> Cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/

At 12:48 02/05/2006, Ian Edwards wrote: >If any list members could not attend the show, you can see what you missed >on the SoG website (look under 'Latest News') And Dick Eastman has a report and some pictures at http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2006/04/family_history_.html peter

If any list members could not attend the show, you can see what you missed on the SoG website (look under 'Latest News') Ian

I am in the category of 'exhaustion so have not rejoined the real world yet' plus catching up with family/friends and those awful chores around the garden/house that I do my best to forget until someone visits!!. I live about 55 minutes drive away so it is not fair on my FHS to sub us to stay overnight on the Friday, I do not mind the early start but it is the lugging of "stuff" from the car to the show that is the killer - I had a trolley but the pavement by the hall is so uneven that one load fell off and went everywhere and in all 4 long trips had to be made from where we could park the car (not that late at 7.55am but not early enough as all the parking spaces by that time had been taken). What I would like PLEASE is for the road to be kept clear of people parking (from the Friday night/early Saturday morning and I know that they are asked not to but the cars I saw did not move!!!) so that unloading can take place as near the door as possible and then I am happy to park as we did 1/4 mile away. Moan over. Yes I did enjoy the show from about 10.30 onwards after setting up the stall and having my first coffee. I love meeting people, both old friends and catching up on their news plus the new acquaintances that I have now made. Hopefully we have also helped a number of people with their Family History either by selling them an index, book, CD etc or just talking to them and pointing them in a direction to go. Can someone let us know how many people passed thru the doors and also how did the numbers compare with previous years? Thanks to all the organisers who did such a good job IN the hall and also prior to the event. Gillian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Watts" <ml@ctwatts.plus.com> To: <SOG-UK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:27 AM Subject: [SoG] Report from planet Zog! > This is the SoG mailing list, isn't it? > > The Society's flagship Show and beginners conference took place last > weekend, didn't it? > > Well I saw no mention of it beforehand, even in the deepest bowels of the > most esoteric message . So didn't any list subscribers think it important > enough to mention? > > Can I presume that no list members went? Well that's not true as I saw some > of you there. > So how come no comment. Was it so unbelievably bad that it did not deserve > any comment? Or was it so good that you are in a such state of aphoria or > exhaustion that you have not rejoined the real world yet? > > Well there is clearly no point in asking if any of you enjoyed it, so I will > simply ask what the weather is like on your planet - plant Zog?. > > Chris Watts > > PS I went, I spent, I enjoyed and I will return next year. > >