I wonder if someone can please give me a lead in tracking down Stephen WALKER's place of baptism and marriage. What I know about him is as follows: 1) Probably born about 1771 (from age at death) 2) Occupation: Navigator/Labourer. 3) Married Elizabeth (surname not known) some time before 1805. 4) First appears on rating list for Deptford in 1805. 5) Had 6 children baptised in Deptford, Kent between 1805 and 1818: Eliza 1805 Ellis 1807 Robert 1810 Ann Maria 1812 James Robert 1815 Frederick William 1818 6) Died and buried Deptford, Kent 1833 (aged 62) I suspect he and Elizabeth may have had other children before they arrived in Deptford. He may have moved to Deptford to work on the construction of the Surrey Docks or similar construction works in the area. Many thanks, Gerry

Thanks, Peter. I'll make a note of that in my research log to-do list. Regards, Irene

There is a good chance that his final muster roll, when he was discharged, will have a list of 'men becoming non-effective' at the back, and that should have his place of birth. Not all of these lists were filled in, so no guarantees. There are also 'casualty returns' in WO25 for many regiments which give the same information. Peter Bennett Fleet, Hampshire On 7 January 2012 23:05, Irene Marlborough <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Caroline: > > As you saw, I had taken Ken's advice but unfortunately ran out of time > before finding the beginning or end. The Description books sound very > interesting and I hadn't heard about them before. > > If Joseph can be found mentioned in these it should establish whether > there's any truth in the foundling story even if it doesn't actually help > with his origins. > > I won't be in the UK at all in 2012 so I will either have to wait or (as > you > suggest) employ a researcher. It does take the fun of discovery out of it > though. > > Many thanks for all your help. At least I can now see another way forward. > > Regards, Irene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Irene, I am no expert on military records and there will be others on this list far better able to help you. I did come across this old thread on RootsChat: http://goo.gl/fc4pD in which I think you were given good advice. As Ken said, Joseph Boy's service records (WO 97) sadly do not seem to have survived. I can find no trace of him in the index to these papers on Find My Past. Ken suggested looking at the first and last muster roll entries to see if they include details of his birth and failing that, looking at the areas where the sergeants were recruiting in the couple of months before he first appears on a muster roll. I also noticed in this TNA guide: http://goo.gl/nyFe6 that there are Description Books which give a description of each soldier, his age, place of birth, trade and service. I searched the Catalogue and found that Description Books for the 52nd Regiment from 1818 to 1829 are in the series WO 25/407. I realise that you cannot just pop down to Kew to research, since you are in Texas! Unless you are planning a trip to the UK soon, it might be sensible to employ a professional researcher to search on your behalf. Best of luck with your search. Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com On 7 January 2012 20:26, Irene Marlborough <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Caroline: > It would suit me very well if my Joseph was one of the Birstall ones. And > it's not an unlikely scenario. The foundling issue had never occurred to me > until another researcher insisted that this was the most likely explanation. > Unfortunately this researcher did not want to pursue the topic with me in > spite of (apparently) having got their hands on Joseph's Waterloo medal. > > When I was at Kew, I started with the muster rolls at 1815 and worked > forwards to see if I could find any identifying info. By the end of my day, > I was in the mid 1820's with no sign of an end to Joseph's service. So I > have to start at 1815 and work backwards to find his first entry. Is there > any other way to find his attestation record assuming that there was one for > little boys? > > Regards, Irene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Irene, Your best bet is, of course, to find Joseph's attestation record. Family Search has 847 birth / baptism entries for people with the exact surname Boy in England, 119 in Scotland and 39 in Ireland (none in Wales). So, although uncommon, it is clearly an established family name, without even taking account of possible variant spellings. Most of the entries I saw had parents listed, so obviously weren't foundlings. The one entry I saw without parents' names was a girl! I personally think it is more likely that your ancestor came from one of these Boy families than that he acquired the name as a foundling. In my experience, foundlings tended to be given the name of the place where they were found (parish or location) or the church where they were baptised (eg Andrews). This thread on RootsChat gives some examples of sources of foundling surnames: http://goo.gl/cd2Ss. The slave registers on Ancestry do show that Boy was a surname given to slaves in the West Indies, however - poor souls. Of the 847 English births / baptisms on Family Search, 123 were in Yorkshire. Parish Registers for the West Riding of Yorkshire are available on Ancestry. I took a look at the Birstall registers and there seem to be a number of families with the surname Boy in the Birkenshaw area of the parish, using Joseph as a given name over more than one generation. In passing, I noticed a record on Ancestry for an earlier Joseph Boy in the British army, discharged in North America in 1778. Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com On 7 January 2012 19:04, Irene Marlborough <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Caroline: > > I did note the Birstall entries but have no way of telling whether these are > mine or not. I was hoping for some more information from the muster rolls > but that will need to wait for another trip. In the meantime, I was just > intrigued at the idea that the Army would take small foundling boys and > train them to be drummers and fifers. From the boy's point of view, it was > probably a good move. At least, he'd be fed regularly and clothed. If he > showed any kind of talent, he'd be relatively well-paid too. > > Thanks for the suggestion. > > Regards, Irene

I have several potential relatives that may have found their way to St Mary Lambeth Workhouse. I would like to explore records for St Mary Lambeth Workhouse - Princes Road and Renfrew Road (post 1871), Lambeth. I'm therefore particularly interested in looking at surviving admission and discharge records (& any other relevant records) that may shed light upon:- a) A death in March 1836 b) A census entry in 1841 c) A death in March 1874 d) A death in November 1887 Have records survived, where are they currently held and can I check on-line? Additionally, what are "Rough settlement examination" records, what do they show and could they help with the above? Thank you in advance for your help. Regards, Mike

Surviving records of the Lambeth Poor Law Union are at the London Metropolitan Archives. You can check the catalogue yourself at http://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/144/LMA_OPAC?LOGON Enter the Reference Code LABG and drill down through the various layers to see what they have. Some of the documents have been digitised and are on Ancestry. Regards Peter Goodey On Sat, 2012-01-07 at 19:56 +0100, Mike Flaherty wrote: > I have several potential relatives that may have found their way to St Mary Lambeth Workhouse. > > I would like to explore records for St Mary Lambeth Workhouse - Princes Road and Renfrew Road (post 1871), Lambeth. > I'm therefore particularly interested in looking at surviving admission and discharge records (& any other relevant records) that may shed light upon:- > a) A death in March 1836 > b) A census entry in 1841 > c) A death in March 1874 > d) A death in November 1887 > > Have records survived, where are they currently held and can I check on-line? > > Additionally, what are "Rough settlement examination" records, what do they show and could they help with the above? > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mike - Almost certainly at the London Metropolitan Archives. Rod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Flaherty Sent: 07 January 2012 18:57 To: [email protected] Subject: [SOG-UK] St Mary Lambeth Workhouse records I have several potential relatives that may have found their way to St Mary Lambeth Workhouse. I would like to explore records for St Mary Lambeth Workhouse - Princes Road and Renfrew Road (post 1871), Lambeth. I'm therefore particularly interested in looking at surviving admission and discharge records (& any other relevant records) that may shed light upon:- a) A death in March 1836 b) A census entry in 1841 c) A death in March 1874 d) A death in November 1887 Have records survived, where are they currently held and can I check on-line? Additionally, what are "Rough settlement examination" records, what do they show and could they help with the above? Thank you in advance for your help. Regards, Mike ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4728 - Release Date: 01/07/12

Mike, I'd try Lambeth Archives: http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/LeisureCulture/LocalHistory/CollectionsHoldings.htm. Lambeth Poor Law records are available on Ancestry but they are not indexed by name - you have to browse by Borough, Poor Law Union and Record Type: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1557. Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com On 7 January 2012 18:56, Mike Flaherty <[email protected]> wrote: > I have several potential relatives that may have found their way to St Mary Lambeth Workhouse. > > I would like to explore records for St Mary Lambeth Workhouse - Princes Road and Renfrew Road (post 1871), Lambeth. > I'm therefore particularly interested in looking at surviving admission and discharge records (& any other relevant records) that may shed light upon:- > a) A death in March 1836 > b) A census entry in 1841 > c) A death in March 1874 > d) A death in November 1887 > > Have records survived, where are they currently held and can I check on-line? > > Additionally, what are "Rough settlement examination" records, what do they show and could they help with the above? > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Regards, > > Mike

Hello Irene, if he was a foundling, or an orphan or perhaps an illegitimate child brought up in a workhouse then I would not be at all surprised if the army signed him up once he had reached the age where he could carry a drum and learn how to play it. I have a case in my tree (late 1800s) where two orphan boys were sent to Industrial Schools when very young. At the first opportunity one was enrolled in the Merchant Navy the other in the Army. Both did well. The difference ( a big one I admit ! ) in their cases is that both had been baptised and I have their records. As for his "demotion" it is possible (I put it no more strongly than that because you may well have evidence of a misdemeanour) that once he had completed his boy-service, during which he was probably identified as "Boy Joseph", he was given the man's rank of Private. i Jim On 7 January 2012 18:05, Irene Marlborough <[email protected]> wrote: > I have long known about my ancestor Joseph BOY who served as a drummer at Waterloo. I have his marriage in Chester in 1819 and the baptism of a daughter at Wrexham in 1821. > > It has been suggested to me, that Joseph was a foundling and was given a biblical name and simply the surname denoting gender. BOY is not a common name and as far as I know, is not connected with BOYES, BOYCE, BOYD or other variants. > > Does anyone know if this was usual practice in the Army? I've been unable to trace Joseph's origins so far though his wife and child appear on later censuses. > > I did check about a decade of muster rolls for his company following his progress and eventual demotion from Drummer/Fifer to Private but I didn't have enough time at Kew to find the start of his service nor the end. > > Has anyone heard of other foundlings taking the same career path? >

Irene, Family Search shows three people by the name of Joseph BOY baptised at Birstall in the West Riding of Yorkshire between 1887 and 1794. Have you checked these three out? Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com On 7 January 2012 18:05, Irene Marlborough <[email protected]> wrote: > I have long known about my ancestor Joseph BOY who served as a drummer at Waterloo. I have his marriage in Chester in 1819 and the baptism of a daughter at Wrexham in 1821. > > It has been suggested to me, that Joseph was a foundling and was given a biblical name and simply the surname denoting gender. BOY is not a common name and as far as I know, is not connected with BOYES, BOYCE, BOYD or other variants. > > Does anyone know if this was usual practice in the Army? I've been unable to trace Joseph's origins so far though his wife and child appear on later censuses. > > I did check about a decade of muster rolls for his company following his progress and eventual demotion from Drummer/Fifer to Private but I didn't have enough time at Kew to find the start of his service nor the end. > > Has anyone heard of other foundlings taking the same career path? > > Regards, Irene > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Caroline: As you saw, I had taken Ken's advice but unfortunately ran out of time before finding the beginning or end. The Description books sound very interesting and I hadn't heard about them before. If Joseph can be found mentioned in these it should establish whether there's any truth in the foundling story even if it doesn't actually help with his origins. I won't be in the UK at all in 2012 so I will either have to wait or (as you suggest) employ a researcher. It does take the fun of discovery out of it though. Many thanks for all your help. At least I can now see another way forward. Regards, Irene

Hi Caroline: It would suit me very well if my Joseph was one of the Birstall ones. And it's not an unlikely scenario. The foundling issue had never occurred to me until another researcher insisted that this was the most likely explanation. Unfortunately this researcher did not want to pursue the topic with me in spite of (apparently) having got their hands on Joseph's Waterloo medal. When I was at Kew, I started with the muster rolls at 1815 and worked forwards to see if I could find any identifying info. By the end of my day, I was in the mid 1820's with no sign of an end to Joseph's service. So I have to start at 1815 and work backwards to find his first entry. Is there any other way to find his attestation record assuming that there was one for little boys? Regards, Irene

Hi Jim: Thanks for the info about your orphan boys. It certainly seems a bit more humane than the Dickensian workhouse stereotype. I can't really say about the demotion aspect. I just know that he disappeared from the drummer/fifer section of the muster rolls and appeared along with the ordinary soldiers. His pay dropped quite a bit as a result. I'm thinking that he'd have been in his twenties at this time assuming that he didn't marry as a teenager but I've actually no idea how old he was. Best wishes, Irene

Hello Caroline: I did note the Birstall entries but have no way of telling whether these are mine or not. I was hoping for some more information from the muster rolls but that will need to wait for another trip. In the meantime, I was just intrigued at the idea that the Army would take small foundling boys and train them to be drummers and fifers. From the boy's point of view, it was probably a good move. At least, he'd be fed regularly and clothed. If he showed any kind of talent, he'd be relatively well-paid too. Thanks for the suggestion. Regards, Irene

I have long known about my ancestor Joseph BOY who served as a drummer at Waterloo. I have his marriage in Chester in 1819 and the baptism of a daughter at Wrexham in 1821. It has been suggested to me, that Joseph was a foundling and was given a biblical name and simply the surname denoting gender. BOY is not a common name and as far as I know, is not connected with BOYES, BOYCE, BOYD or other variants. Does anyone know if this was usual practice in the Army? I've been unable to trace Joseph's origins so far though his wife and child appear on later censuses. I did check about a decade of muster rolls for his company following his progress and eventual demotion from Drummer/Fifer to Private but I didn't have enough time at Kew to find the start of his service nor the end. Has anyone heard of other foundlings taking the same career path? Regards, Irene

I am looking at a marriage certificate from 1877. The marriage took place in St John's Church in the parish of St Luke, Chelsea. The problem is the residence of the groom (and bride) which is: 30 F. Street, Queen's Park If this was Washington DC I wouldn't have a problem but I have never some across this sort of address anywhere in the UK, least of all in London. I have scoured a (modern) map of the area and have drawn a blank. The writing on the certificate (presumably by the curate, The Reverend Mr A Carney) is perfectly clear. There is absolutely no scope for misinterpretation. Any suggestions? -- Derrick Porter Email: [email protected] Web: www.pluckrose.org

The usual root where the Livery Company is unknown is to search the City Freedom records first. These do have annual alphabetic indexes and give the Livery Company. Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Fisk" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 10:31 AM Subject: [SOG-UK] Mantua-makers > I'm chasing a female ancestor who was a mantua-maker. She took several > apprentices but is always listed just as a mantua-maker with no livery > company association. Her master was also listed repeatedly as a > mantua-maker. I'd like to find her indentures so I can pinpoint her father > but have no idea which companies to look at. She doesn't show up online > as anything other than a mantua-maker so I need to plough through the > undigitized records at the Guildhall Library. Does anyone have any ideas > about the most likely companies for that trade? Thanks! > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Derrick, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick Porter" <[email protected]> >I am looking at a marriage certificate from 1877. The marriage took > place in St John's Church in the parish of St Luke, Chelsea. The > problem is the residence of the groom (and bride) which is: > > 30 F. Street, Queen's Park > > If this was Washington DC I wouldn't have a problem but I have never > some across this sort of address anywhere in the UK, least of all in > London. > > I have scoured a (modern) map of the area and have drawn a blank. > > The writing on the certificate (presumably by the curate, The Reverend > Mr A Carney) is perfectly clear. There is absolutely no scope for > misinterpretation.> > Any suggestions?> > > -- > Derrick Porter > Google is your friend :-) See this thread http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LONDON/2001-07/0995031970 There should also be something about it in the VCH at British History Online. The area surrounding these streets fell at the junction of several parishes - Hammersmith, Willesden, Paddington, Kensington and a detached portion of Chelsea. The streets themseves were originally given letters of the alphabet, but subsequently acquired names - see London County Council's guide to streets in the administrative county of London for more detail. Kind regards. John Henley

> From: Derrick Porter > Sent: 06 January 2012 11:22 > > I am looking at a marriage certificate from 1877. The marriage > took place in St John's Church in the parish of St Luke, Chelsea. The > problem is the residence of the groom (and bride) which is: > > 30 F. Street, Queen's Park > > If this was Washington DC I wouldn't have a problem but I have > never some across this sort of address anywhere in the UK, least > of all in London. This is correct. There were a series of streets in the Queen's Park area of Chelsea parish given letter names. They were later renamed with names beginning with that letter. According to the 1881 census street index F Street is the same as Farrant Street. There were also First Avenue, Second Avenue etc. which retain their names today. If you look at a modern map you can still pick out A to O Streets in the area between Harrow Road and Kilburn Lane. http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Chelsea_Registration_District,_1881_Census_Street_Index_C-F see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Park,_London#Queen.27s_Park_Estate Best wishes Andrew -- Andrew Millard - [email protected] Bodimeade genealogy:   http://www.one-name.org/homepages/bodimeade/ My family history:     http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/