Hi Chris: Well, I'm overwhelmed at your generosity. Thank you so much! This info all ties in nicely with the known facts. If he were of a similar age to his wife Elizabeth then he'd have been about 14 in 1804 when he enlisted. At least now I can begin looking for his wife's remarriage from 1826 onwards and perhaps she was still in Wrexham and not in Manchester where she was in 1851 and 1861. And bingo! A quick look at familysearch gives the baptism of Joseph BYE son of Joseph & Mary BYE at Wantage on 3 Mar 1787, birth date16 Oct 1786. There's another one baptised in Aldermaston the same year but the army death record seems to be clear. That's a fair bit younger than I'd thought. He'd have been only 7 in January 1804 and appointed drummer when he was 8 years old the summer of the following year. Does this seem likely? There are quite a few BYE families in Berkshire. It's a new county for me - I have no other ancestors from there. I'm unfamiliar with the LDS coverage, placenames and which surnames are common. So I will need to do more research to be satisfied that this is the correct boy (BOY, BUY, BYE!). And it appears that there's nothing to the foundling story. The current owner of Joseph's Waterloo medal didn't know what he was talking about. Joseph's widow must have had to pawn the medal. I would have liked to have seen a photo of it at least. I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out like this. A lot more avenues of research have opened up. And I'm now conjuring with the image of a 7 year old soldier! I'll let you and the list know if I find out any more. Best wishes and thanks a million, Regards, Irene

Hi Wayne, Did you check to see if she had emigrated to the colonies? While on the subject of FARMER, I am looking for a Sarah FARMER c. 1781 who married John WATKINS in Grosmount, Monmouth. If anybody can help I'd appreciate it. Regards, Nancy Frey Newcastle, Ontario, CANADA OPC for Ansford & Castle Cary, Somerset Owner/Moderator of Yahoo! FULFORD_North Devon Group Owner/Moderator of Yahoo! DAVIDGE Connections Group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Farmer" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 4:22 PM Subject: [SOG-UK] Eliza Farmer, born 1844, Brecon,Wales - What happened to her? Hi,I have been banging my head against this particular brick wall for months and months. Basically my 6x Great Grandfather Benjamin Farmer and his wife Eliza had 9 children that i know of. I have managed to find out what happened to all of them from birth and trace 99% of their ancestors - all except for Eliza who seems to disappear after 1861.Benjamin was born about 1816 (have yet to find a parish record for his birth despite finding the 2 marriages for his father Thomas) and the couple had the following children - Thomas, Ann, Margaret, Eliza, Benjamin, John, William, George and another that died before being named. Here is what i have on Eliza:- She was born on 21st June 1844 at the Kings Arms Inn, the Watton, Brecknock - Benjamin is listed as a saddler and Inn Keeper on the certificate.In 1851 Eliza is living with the family on Free Street, Brecon - presumably still at the Inn (which had the Watton on one side and Free Street on the other) and Benjamin is listed as Town! > Crier.In 1861 Eliza is still with the family have moved to the Saddler's shop on the High Street > and Benjamin is now listed as Saddler and Auctioneer (there is still a sign under an archway on > the high street that says "Licensed to let Post Horses" which is another heading that Benjamin can > be found under in the Brecon directory for the time).After that i can't find any clue to what > happened to her. I went for the most likely Marriage certificate for an Elizabeth Farmer marrying > a William James registered at Hay in September 1861, but it turned out to be for a marriage at > Clifford, Herefordshire and the certificate had a line through where Elizabeth's father should be > so i don't think its her. None of the other possible marriage or death certificates jump out at > me, and i have attempted looking at Censuses near to a few of the possible marriages but again > nothing seems to fit. Anybody got any ideas?Thanks muchly Wayne Farmer >

Caroline That does seem likely for her - thankyou. So now i'm looking after 1871 :) Still can't see her in the 1881 census and i've been looking at marriages and deaths over and over again for that time period but still nothing jumps out at me.Thanks muchly for taking 10 years off the search though :)Best WishesWayne> From: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 00:06:16 +0000 > To: [email protected] > CC: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] Eliza Farmer, born 1844, Brecon, Wales - What happened to her? > > Wayne, > > There is an Eliza Farmer in the 1871 Census who is a servant in the > family of Titus Lewis in the village of Llanblethian in Glamorgan, > about 40 miles from Brecon. She is listed as unmarried, aged 24 and > born in Brecon. The birthplace is right. The age is 2 years out but > dropping a couple of years was not unusual as an unmarried woman got > older ;-) The census reference is RG10/5416, Folio 78, Page 14 if you > wish to look it up. If you don't have access to images of the 1871 > census, email me off list. > > Caroline Gurney > www.carosfamily.com > > > > On 13 January 2012 21:22, Wayne Farmer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi,I have been banging my head against this particular brick wall for months and months. Basically my 6x Great Grandfather Benjamin Farmer and his wife Eliza had 9 children that i know of. I have managed to find out what happened to all of them from birth and trace 99% of their ancestors - all except for Eliza who seems to disappear after 1861.Benjamin was born about 1816 (have yet to find a parish record for his birth despite finding the 2 marriages for his father Thomas) and the couple had the following children - Thomas, Ann, Margaret, Eliza, Benjamin, John, William, George and another that died before being named. Here is what i have on Eliza:- She was born on 21st June 1844 at the Kings Arms Inn, the Watton, Brecknock - Benjamin is listed as a saddler and Inn Keeper on the certificate.In 1851 Eliza is living with the family on Free Street, Brecon - presumably still at the Inn (which had the Watton on one side and Free Street on the other) and Benjamin is listed as Town! > > Crier.In 1861 Eliza is still with the family have moved to the Saddler's shop on the High Street and Benjamin is now listed as Saddler and Auctioneer (there is still a sign under an archway on the high street that says "Licensed to let Post Horses" which is another heading that Benjamin can be found under in the Brecon directory for the time).After that i can't find any clue to what happened to her. I went for the most likely Marriage certificate for an Elizabeth Farmer marrying a William James registered at Hay in September 1861, but it turned out to be for a marriage at Clifford, Herefordshire and the certificate had a line through where Elizabeth's father should be so i don't think its her. None of the other possible marriage or death certificates jump out at me, and i have attempted looking at Censuses near to a few of the possible marriages but again nothing seems to fit. Anybody got any ideas?Thanks muchly Wayne Farmer > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wayne, There is an Eliza Farmer in the 1871 Census who is a servant in the family of Titus Lewis in the village of Llanblethian in Glamorgan, about 40 miles from Brecon. She is listed as unmarried, aged 24 and born in Brecon. The birthplace is right. The age is 2 years out but dropping a couple of years was not unusual as an unmarried woman got older ;-) The census reference is RG10/5416, Folio 78, Page 14 if you wish to look it up. If you don't have access to images of the 1871 census, email me off list. Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com On 13 January 2012 21:22, Wayne Farmer <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi,I have been banging my head against this particular brick wall for months and months. Basically my 6x Great Grandfather Benjamin Farmer and his wife Eliza had 9 children that i know of. I have managed to find out what happened to all of them from birth and trace 99% of their ancestors - all except for Eliza who seems to disappear after 1861.Benjamin was born about 1816 (have yet to find a parish record for his birth despite finding the 2 marriages for his father Thomas) and the couple had the following children - Thomas, Ann, Margaret, Eliza, Benjamin, John, William, George and another that died before being named.  Here is what i have on Eliza:- She was born on 21st June 1844 at the Kings Arms Inn, the Watton, Brecknock - Benjamin is listed as a saddler and Inn Keeper on the certificate.In 1851 Eliza is living with the family on Free Street, Brecon - presumably still at the Inn (which had the Watton on one side and Free Street on the other) and Benjamin is listed as To! wn! >  Crier.In 1861 Eliza is still with the family have moved to the Saddler's shop on the High Street and Benjamin is now listed as Saddler and Auctioneer (there is still a sign under an archway on the high street that says "Licensed to let Post Horses" which is another heading that Benjamin can be found under in the Brecon directory for the time).After that i can't find any clue to what happened to her. I went for the most likely Marriage certificate for an Elizabeth Farmer marrying a William James registered at Hay in September 1861, but it turned out to be for a marriage at Clifford, Herefordshire and the certificate had a line through where Elizabeth's father should be so i don't think its her. None of the other possible marriage or death certificates jump out at me, and i have attempted looking at Censuses near to a few of the possible marriages but again nothing seems to fit. Anybody got any ideas?Thanks muchly Wayne Farmer

Hi,I have been banging my head against this particular brick wall for months and months. Basically my 6x Great Grandfather Benjamin Farmer and his wife Eliza had 9 children that i know of. I have managed to find out what happened to all of them from birth and trace 99% of their ancestors - all except for Eliza who seems to disappear after 1861.Benjamin was born about 1816 (have yet to find a parish record for his birth despite finding the 2 marriages for his father Thomas) and the couple had the following children - Thomas, Ann, Margaret, Eliza, Benjamin, John, William, George and another that died before being named. Here is what i have on Eliza:- She was born on 21st June 1844 at the Kings Arms Inn, the Watton, Brecknock - Benjamin is listed as a saddler and Inn Keeper on the certificate.In 1851 Eliza is living with the family on Free Street, Brecon - presumably still at the Inn (which had the Watton on one side and Free Street on the other) and Benjamin is listed as Town Crier.In 1861 Eliza is still with the family have moved to the Saddler's shop on the High Street and Benjamin is now listed as Saddler and Auctioneer (there is still a sign under an archway on the high street that says "Licensed to let Post Horses" which is another heading that Benjamin can be found under in the Brecon directory for the time).After that i can't find any clue to what happened to her. I went for the most likely Marriage certificate for an Elizabeth Farmer marrying a William James registered at Hay in September 1861, but it turned out to be for a marriage at Clifford, Herefordshire and the certificate had a line through where Elizabeth's father should be so i don't think its her. None of the other possible marriage or death certificates jump out at me, and i have attempted looking at Censuses near to a few of the possible marriages but again nothing seems to fit. Anybody got any ideas?Thanks muchly Wayne Farmer

Hello Susan: I'll be sure and look out for the books by Robert Malcomson at my library. Just this week I was able to watch a 2 hour TV program about the War of 1812 on our local Public TV channel. I don't know if the books give the same impression but I gathered that the various battles were mostly lost by poor tactics and sheer incompetence rather than won by intelligence and valour. Perhaps it is always so.... Best wishes, Irene

Hello Irene You have mentioned that you have a fair amount of background material now on the War of 1812 from visiting some of the old forts. There are a number of fascinating books written on the War of 1812 in Canada and the US that contain much material that would be of interest to anyone with a British military or naval ancestor.  I have no personal acquaintance with the author mentioned below. I can strongly recommend several by Robert Malcomson (note only one ‘L’ in his surname and he is not married to Patricia) which are well-documented and illustrated and interesting to read. I have, as yet, read only “Lords of the Lake”, which is on the Canada-US battles for naval control of Lake Ontario, and “A Very Brilliant Affair: The Battle of Queenston Heights, 1812” His descriptions of the lead-up to the battle, and the battle tactics are wonderful and make me anxious to read his last book “Capital in Flames: The American Attack on Fort York, 1813”. The Canadian Military Journal, in an article by Major John R. Grodzinski, CD, MA, reviewed a number of 1812 books. One of his comments on the 2nd of those mentioned above:  “…The battle itself is covered in some 40 pages. The nine appendices are gems, and they offer detailed orders of battle, casualty lists, and other information, while several specially commissioned maps help the reader follow the narrative.“  Major G.  mentions a number of other authors, whom I have not (yet) read including one for the female perspective of war:  “In the Midst of Alarms: The Untold Story of Women in the War of 1812” by Dianne Graves. I found the best variety of articles on War of 1812 books was found by putting the words “what books did Robert Malcomson write” into Google. This gives more info on RM and War of 1812 books other than just booksellers. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: Irene Marlborough <[email protected]> Date: Monday, January 9, 2012 8:14 am Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Foundlings in the Army To: [email protected] > Hello Blair: > > Thank you seems to be an inadequate response to your helpful > findings. I am > amazed at this information. How interesting it all is. It > certainly puts > Joseph's service into perspective. I think I can now assume that > Joseph was > not a teenager when he married in 1819. He was probably in his > early > twenties at Waterloo (from your quoted statistic from Mark > Adkin). I think > he may well have been a similar age to his wife and therefore > born about > 1790 +/- 5 years or so. > > The info about carrying the lash and wielding it is very > surprising. It is > nice to have confirmation that he may well have continued his > drumming > duties well after Waterloo until the job description changed. > > The description of the battle is terrifying but Joseph seems to > have come > through OK. All this has got me fired up for really finding out > more about > him. I had already learned quite a bit about barracks life for > British > soldiers in Canada during and after the War of 1812. I visited > several forts > in Ontario a couple of years ago and realised that this > lifestyle probably > applied to Joseph in the years spent in Nova Scotia in the > 1820's. However, > the wartime experiences must have defined the man - how could it > be > otherwise? > > Many, many thanks for your help, > Best wishes, Irene > >   > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SOG-UK- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There are nice reconstructions of miltary facilities of the period in Canada - is that where you are living? One is, of course, Fort Henry in Kingston. Ont; the other in the Citadel in Halifax, NS. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Marlborough" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Foundlings in the Army > Hello Blair: > > Thank you seems to be an inadequate response to your helpful findings. I > am > amazed at this information. How interesting it all is. It certainly puts > Joseph's service into perspective. I think I can now assume that Joseph > was > not a teenager when he married in 1819. He was probably in his early > twenties at Waterloo (from your quoted statistic from Mark Adkin). I think > he may well have been a similar age to his wife and therefore born about > 1790 +/- 5 years or so. > > The info about carrying the lash and wielding it is very surprising. It is > nice to have confirmation that he may well have continued his drumming > duties well after Waterloo until the job description changed. > > The description of the battle is terrifying but Joseph seems to have come > through OK. All this has got me fired up for really finding out more about > him. I had already learned quite a bit about barracks life for British > soldiers in Canada during and after the War of 1812. I visited several > forts > in Ontario a couple of years ago and realised that this lifestyle probably > applied to Joseph in the years spent in Nova Scotia in the 1820's. > However, > the wartime experiences must have defined the man - how could it be > otherwise? > > Many, many thanks for your help, > Best wishes, Irene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Irene There is some helpful background information contained in The Waterloo Companion by Mark Adkin, pub Aurum 2001. I will summarise from page 178: Drummers: Drummers were not necessarily boys. At Waterloo the average age of the drummers in 2/73 was twenty three, with the youngest being nineteen and the oldest twenty seven. They had an average of eight years service each. Often recruited young they tended to continue their drumming duties well into manhood and were frequently more experienced soldiers than the men they served. There was one drummer on the establishment of every company but a number of battalions had more: the 2/30 for example had fourteen at Waterloo. Their duties included wielding the lash on soldiers sentenced to be flogged. They were supposed to carry a cat o' nine tails in their pack so that the punishment could be carried out on the march if necessary. The youngest soldier in 2/73 at Waterloo was Robert Kyle who, though only seventeen had already been in the army for over four years, including two fighting in the Peninsula. Before enlistment as a Boy he had done a spell as a Drummer before transferring to private. From the same page: The 1/52 started the battle as the strongest battalion in Wellington's army, with 1,130 all ranks under the command of Lt Col Sir John Colborne. Colbourrne had commanded a brigade in Portugal, Spain and France and eventually became Field Marshall Lord Seaton. (A statue of this soldier stands outside the RGJ regimental museum in Peninsula Barracks at Winchester). Most British regiments at Waterloo comprised ten companies of about 65 - 75 soldiers, so a regiment or battalion would be about 650 in total. I cannot presently verify the organisation of the 52nd but it seems likely that the companies would still number ten of about 100 to 120 soldiers. The same source describes part of what the 52nd stood up to at Waterloo. p270 "Ensign Leeke of the 1/52 Foot who carried one of the Colours at Waterloo, stated that the Peninsula veterans had never experienced such a battering as they faced that day. The worst was when they formed square on the forward slope north-east of Hougoumont to receive French cavalry attacks - which came as a welcome relief from the gunfire. It was a large battalion and formed two squares, initially almost concealed in the tall rye that had to be trampled down. The French guns were about 700-800 metres to the south of the squares. The British batteries were behind the squares and firing over them - at one stage faulty fusing of shrapnel shells caused some to burst over the 52nd which inflicted casualties - it was stopped when an officer dashed back to the guns to inform them what was happening. This is what young Leeke had to say: The standing to be cannonaded and hving nothing else to do, is about the most unpleasant thing that can happen to soldiers in an engagement. I frequently tried to follow with my eye, the course of the balls from our own guns, which were firing over us. It is much more easy to see a round shot passing away from you over your head, than to catch sight of one coming towards you, though this also occurs occasionally.... I distinctly saw the French artillerymen go through the whole process of sponging out one of his guns and reloading it; I could see that it was pointed at our square and when it was discharged I caught sight of the ball, which appeared to be in direct line with me. I thought Shall I move? No! I gathered myself up, and stood firm with the Colour in my right hand [he commented that both Regimental Colours had been badly shot up during the Peninsula War, and at Waterloo were 'little more than bare poles']. I do not know exactly the rapidity with which cannon balls fly, but I think that two seconds elapsed from the time I saw this shot lave the gun until it struck the front face of the square. It did not strike the four men in rear of whom I was standing, but the poor fellows on their right. It was fired at some elevation and struck the first man about the knees, and coming to the ground under the feet of the rear man of the four, whom it most severely wounded, it rose and, passing within an inch or two of the colour pole, went over the rear face of the square without doing further injury. The two men in the first and second rank fell outward, I fear they did not survive long; the other two fell within the square." p 398 At the conclusion of the battle Colbourne admitted "The 52nd suffered severely from the fire of the Enemy; the loss of the skirmishers was severe, and the two Officers of the Company were wounded. The right wing of the 52nd lost nearly 150 men during the advance [following up the Imperial Guards retreat]; the officer carrying the Regimental Colour was killed. (Note: this could not have been Leeke, the youngest subaltern who must have carried the King's Colour, as he survived for 64 years after Waterloo and of course to record his experiences.) Regarding Joseph Boy's later change from Drummer to Bugler: the main role of the Drummer was to pass orders, by drum beating, in barracks and battle. This was inappropriate for Light Infantry Regiments and Rifle regiments who replaced the drum with the bugle. Best regards Blair On 08/01/2012 12:45, Blair Southerden wrote: > Irene > > I have been following this thread with some interest. I suspect that Joseph Boy was created young, as a drummer boy as suggested by a previous correspondent. His transfer to private would probably have occurred at the age of 18 years when he became eligible by age for 'man service'. > > I note mention by Caroline of the 52nd Regiment. Was this the regiment in which he served? If so it became the Buckinghamshire Light Infantry and later in 1966 the 1st Bn Royal Green Jackets. This regiment has now become (since 2007) The Rifles. The RGJ museum is in Winchester, and while they do not hold service records, there may be some information that will throw further light on recruitment. From 1808 the army was heavily involved in the Peninsula War and the 52nd were involved there. > > If you can confirm the 52nd was Joseph's Regiment I can make further enquiries along these lines. > > Best regards > > Blair >

Hi Chris: No, I live in Texas - quite a long way. But 18 months ago we drove from Texas to a family reunion in Niagara on the Lake and Toronto. It was a wonderful trip. We visited forts in Niagara on the Lake and at Fort Erie. These were well worth the trip. The staff were knowledgeable and helpful. There were demonstrations of musket firing at both places. This was quite impressive. One of the demonstrators managed to fire every 15 seconds. I can't quite imagine what the squares of troops at Waterloo must have felt when facing musket fire like this plus heavy artillery - from both sides, it sounds like! Of course, the Canadian perspective was quite different from Waterloo. There was much more attention paid to the War of 1812 for obvious reasons. Still Joseph BOY would have experienced these kinds of frontier forts in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. I was quite fascinated at the prospect of family life for those women and children permitted to accompany their husbands. Typically only 10-15% of wives managed to make the trip and life must have been hard. However, it may have been less difficult than the wife of an ag lab in rural England or a mill worker in the Industrial revolution. The sons would often follow their fathers into the army. If anyone is having a holiday in Ontario, do visit these forts. It's quite educational. Best wishes, Irene

Hello Blair: Thank you seems to be an inadequate response to your helpful findings. I am amazed at this information. How interesting it all is. It certainly puts Joseph's service into perspective. I think I can now assume that Joseph was not a teenager when he married in 1819. He was probably in his early twenties at Waterloo (from your quoted statistic from Mark Adkin). I think he may well have been a similar age to his wife and therefore born about 1790 +/- 5 years or so. The info about carrying the lash and wielding it is very surprising. It is nice to have confirmation that he may well have continued his drumming duties well after Waterloo until the job description changed. The description of the battle is terrifying but Joseph seems to have come through OK. All this has got me fired up for really finding out more about him. I had already learned quite a bit about barracks life for British soldiers in Canada during and after the War of 1812. I visited several forts in Ontario a couple of years ago and realised that this lifestyle probably applied to Joseph in the years spent in Nova Scotia in the 1820's. However, the wartime experiences must have defined the man - how could it be otherwise? Many, many thanks for your help, Best wishes, Irene

Yes, it's F street in Queens Park, London  W10 Before 1900 the whole of Queen's Park was a 'detached portion' of the Parish of St Luke's Chelsea, all of four miles away. The whole estate was laid out by the Artizans, Labourers and General Dwellings Company in the 1870s.  With stunning individuality the called all the down streets First, Second, Third etc Avenues - which they are still called today - and the cross streets A,B,C etc Streets.  The latter soon got 'proper' names, but I don't have the reference books to hand to tell you which streets became which.  A quick call to Westminster Archives should solve your problem.   Hans Norton     --- On Fri, 6/1/12, JFHHgen <[email protected]> wrote: From: JFHHgen <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] F Street in Queens Park To: [email protected], [email protected] Date: Friday, 6 January, 2012, 11:53 Hello Derrick, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick Porter" <[email protected]> >I am looking at a marriage certificate from 1877.  The marriage took > place in St John's Church in the parish of St Luke, Chelsea.  The > problem is the residence of the groom (and bride) which is: > >     30 F. Street, Queen's Park > > If this was Washington DC I wouldn't have a problem but I have never > some across this sort of address anywhere in the UK, least of all in > London. > > I have scoured a (modern) map of the area and have drawn a blank. > > The  writing on the certificate (presumably by the curate, The Reverend > Mr A Carney) is perfectly clear.  There is absolutely no scope for > misinterpretation.> > Any suggestions?> > > -- > Derrick Porter > Google is your friend :-) See this thread http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LONDON/2001-07/0995031970 There should also be something about it in the VCH at British History Online. The area surrounding these streets fell at the junction of several parishes - Hammersmith, Willesden, Paddington, Kensington and  a detached portion of Chelsea. The streets themseves were originally given letters of the alphabet, but subsequently acquired names - see London County Council's guide to streets in the administrative county of London for more detail. Kind regards. John Henley ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> And here's more info about Joseph but does not indicate his presence. > Baptism of Ann BOY 21 Oct 1821 at Wrexham, daughter of Joseph and > Elizabeth > BOY. Father's occupation - a soldier. > Marriage of Ann BOY at Manchester Collegiate/Cathedral Church 27 Apr 1841, > bride's father Joseph BOY, a weaver. No indication that he was deceased > though he may have been. The above says to me that he was discharged between 1821 and 1841 and that he was alive when discharged. Otherwise his occupation would have been given as soldier and not weaver (even if by then deceased). Interesting that he is not noted as a pensioner - so maybe he didn't serve long enough or otherwise qualify (so WO 97 etc won't help - back to those muster books!) For those underage marriages have you check to see if they were by licence - if so follow that up. cheers Chris Watts

Irene, Have you tried the Casualty Returns in WO 25 at TNA as suggested by Peter Park? WO 25/3256 - and thereabouts. In searching the Muster Books have you been guided by the columns that indicate whether he was in receipt of long service pay (ie after 7 and 14 years) - noting when this started can shorten a possibly lengthy search (but you won't have been looking at every year anyway, surely!) At this period WO 97 is not the only series of discharge documents that need to be consulted - WO 121 and WO 119 could also turn him up (but not if he died in service) The 52nd Foot (thus named from 1739) was called the Oxfordshire Regt from 1782 but tghe other names are much later - post-Cardwell reforms of 1881. cheers Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Marlborough" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Foundlings in the Army > Hi Blair: > > Yes, Joseph was with the 1st Battalion of the 52nd Regiment of Foot with > Capt. James McNair's Company. I'm told that this was also known as the > Oxfordshire Regt. (Light Infantry). > > Ken's correspondence from Rootschat also gave the locations of the 1st Btn > from 1814 through to 1823 whereupon they left for New Brunswick and Nova > Scotia for 8 years. Ken further mentioned that Joseph is not listed in the > medal roll for the Peninsular War. I'm thinking that this was because > Joseph > was deceased by the time these were announced in 1847. Here is all the > actual info I have about Joseph's whereabouts (as opposed to where his > Battalion was). > > Since Joseph was awarded a Waterloo medal, we have to assume he was there > and serving in 1815. > On 21 Jun 1819 he married at St. John's church, Chester. His occupation > was > given as Private 52 Foot - though afaik he was still listed in the > drummer/fifer rolls at this time. His bride, Elizabeth ANDREWS was > baptised > at Minera, Denbighshire in 1791 so she was probably not of full age. > Perhaps > Joseph was still a teenager too. > > And here's more info about Joseph but does not indicate his presence. > Baptism of Ann BOY 21 Oct 1821 at Wrexham, daughter of Joseph and > Elizabeth > BOY. Father's occupation - a soldier. > Marriage of Ann BOY at Manchester Collegiate/Cathedral Church 27 Apr 1841, > bride's father Joseph BOY, a weaver. No indication that he was deceased > though he may have been. > > And Joseph was probably deceased by 1851, when his wife/widow Elizabeth > can > be found on the 1851 census for Manchester as Elizabeth THOMAS. I know > that > this is she because in 1861 she's living with her daughter and all the > details match. I've not been able to find Elizabeth's remarriage yet and > maybe there wasn't one. > > It's entirely possible that Joseph went to Nova Scotia with his regiment > and > never returned having either died or settled there with a new family. > Since > Ann gives her father's occupation of weaver though would indicate that she > knew that he did leave the army for civilian life. > > I would love to know what became of Joseph and whether he and his wife > Elizabeth ever managed to live together. I gather that only a small > proportion of Army wives were allowed to travel with the regiment so it's > unlikely that she was with him in Ireland or Canada. Though if we assume > a > prompt baptism for his daughter Ann in Oct 1821, then we know that Joseph > and Elizabeth were together in the winter of 1820/21 when the regiment was > supposedly in Ireland. Perhaps he had leave or it may have been relatively > easy for her to visit him from Wales. > > Sorry to have been so long-winded but now you know pretty much everything > that I know about Joseph. > > Regards and thanks, Irene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Irene. What is so secretative about the regiment that your Joseph BOY served in? Knowing it would help us make suggestions for your research. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Marlborough" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] Foundlings in the Army > Thanks, Peter. I'll make a note of that in my research log to-do list. > > Regards, Irene > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Irene Further to mine below, I was wrong in attributing the title Buckinghamshire Light Infantry to the 52nd, it should have been Oxfordshire Light Infantry. My apologies, I should have rechecked my facts! Blair On 08/01/2012 12:45, Blair Southerden wrote: > Irene > > I have been following this thread with some interest. I suspect that Joseph Boy was created young, as a drummer boy as suggested by a previous correspondent. His transfer to private would probably have occurred at the age of 18 years when he became eligible by age for 'man service'. > > I note mention by Caroline of the 52nd Regiment. Was this the regiment in which he served? If so it became the Buckinghamshire Light Infantry and later in 1966 the 1st Bn Royal Green Jackets. This regiment has now become (since 2007) The Rifles. The RGJ museum is in Winchester, and while they do not hold service records, there may be some information that will throw further light on recruitment. From 1808 the army was heavily involved in the Peninsula War and the 52nd were involved there. > > If you can confirm the 52nd was Joseph's Regiment I can make further enquiries along these lines. > > Best regards > > Blair >

I think my brain must have been off when I made the age calculation for Elizabeth ANDREWS. She was baptised on 2 Apr 1791 so that makes her almost 30 when she married Joseph BOY. It's possible that he a lot younger than she but I usually assume that bride and groom are of similar age - at least as a starting point. If Joseph's DOB was similar, then he'd have been in his mid twenties at Waterloo but he was certainly still on the drummer/fifer rolls for several years after that though it seems he became a bugler. Does this change the picture? Sorry about that. All the best, Irene

Hi Chris, Blair and all: Thanks for all the suggestions. The marriage was by banns, both of this parish (of St John, Chester), bachelor & spinster. Both made mark. The witnesses were not helpful. Perhaps Joseph & Elizabeth both claimed to be of full age and for all I know - they might have been. Certainly my way forward with research on Joseph has been made clear. I need to decide whether to wait 18 months or so for my opportunity to visit Kew or to hire a researcher instead. Thanks so much, Regards, Irene

Irene I have been following this thread with some interest. I suspect that Joseph Boy was created young, as a drummer boy as suggested by a previous correspondent. His transfer to private would probably have occurred at the age of 18 years when he became eligible by age for 'man service'. I note mention by Caroline of the 52nd Regiment. Was this the regiment in which he served? If so it became the Buckinghamshire Light Infantry and later in 1966 the 1st Bn Royal Green Jackets. This regiment has now become (since 2007) The Rifles. The RGJ museum is in Winchester, and while they do not hold service records, there may be some information that will throw further light on recruitment. From 1808 the army was heavily involved in the Peninsula War and the 52nd were involved there. If you can confirm the 52nd was Joseph's Regiment I can make further enquiries along these lines. Best regards Blair

Hi Blair: Yes, Joseph was with the 1st Battalion of the 52nd Regiment of Foot with Capt. James McNair's Company. I'm told that this was also known as the Oxfordshire Regt. (Light Infantry). Ken's correspondence from Rootschat also gave the locations of the 1st Btn from 1814 through to 1823 whereupon they left for New Brunswick and Nova Scotia for 8 years. Ken further mentioned that Joseph is not listed in the medal roll for the Peninsular War. I'm thinking that this was because Joseph was deceased by the time these were announced in 1847. Here is all the actual info I have about Joseph's whereabouts (as opposed to where his Battalion was). Since Joseph was awarded a Waterloo medal, we have to assume he was there and serving in 1815. On 21 Jun 1819 he married at St. John's church, Chester. His occupation was given as Private 52 Foot - though afaik he was still listed in the drummer/fifer rolls at this time. His bride, Elizabeth ANDREWS was baptised at Minera, Denbighshire in 1791 so she was probably not of full age. Perhaps Joseph was still a teenager too. And here's more info about Joseph but does not indicate his presence. Baptism of Ann BOY 21 Oct 1821 at Wrexham, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth BOY. Father's occupation - a soldier. Marriage of Ann BOY at Manchester Collegiate/Cathedral Church 27 Apr 1841, bride's father Joseph BOY, a weaver. No indication that he was deceased though he may have been. And Joseph was probably deceased by 1851, when his wife/widow Elizabeth can be found on the 1851 census for Manchester as Elizabeth THOMAS. I know that this is she because in 1861 she's living with her daughter and all the details match. I've not been able to find Elizabeth's remarriage yet and maybe there wasn't one. It's entirely possible that Joseph went to Nova Scotia with his regiment and never returned having either died or settled there with a new family. Since Ann gives her father's occupation of weaver though would indicate that she knew that he did leave the army for civilian life. I would love to know what became of Joseph and whether he and his wife Elizabeth ever managed to live together. I gather that only a small proportion of Army wives were allowed to travel with the regiment so it's unlikely that she was with him in Ireland or Canada. Though if we assume a prompt baptism for his daughter Ann in Oct 1821, then we know that Joseph and Elizabeth were together in the winter of 1820/21 when the regiment was supposedly in Ireland. Perhaps he had leave or it may have been relatively easy for her to visit him from Wales. Sorry to have been so long-winded but now you know pretty much everything that I know about Joseph. Regards and thanks, Irene