I missed the beginning of this thread, but two points have occurred to me from reading the more recent messages. When superintendent registrars' licences existed, they could not authorise a wedding according to the rites of the Church of England, but a superintendent registrar's certificate without a licence could and can, if the incumbent is agreeable. According to the last edition of the diocesan handbook that I saw, it is the policy of the Archbishop of Canterbury that licences for second marriages during the life of the first spouse should not be issued in his diocese. I do not know whether there is, or has been, a similar policy in other dioceses. It would seem odd, though, if special licences were issued in the name of an authority whose surrogates may not issue common licences in such circumstances. Going a bit off the subject, those registering marriages are now instructed to use the expression "single" in place of bachelor or spinster, while if the deceased is described as single in an administrator's oath, the registry asks for evidence of divorce! Jeremy Wilkes

Copy sent off list ! Free BMD : Ernest Chitterden Bridges Sept 1907 Paddington London Vol 1a page 65 Eddy in bavaria ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush" <> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:25 PM Subject: [SOG-UK] German Records > My thanks to everyone who has responded. It never fails to amaze me how > much > work members are prepared to do for each other. > > Researching the Winterfeldt family, especially the grounds for the > possible > annulment of Hans's marriage, should help me to pass the rest of the > winter > without the risk of boredom setting in. > > Just one final question, if I may; how do I go about obtaining a copy of > the > licence for Helen's second marriage? > > George > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

> From: George Bush > Sent: 22 January 2012 21:13 > > Your comments have prompted me to look at the certificate a little > more closely. Although "nee Scott" does look like a later addition, > it does appear to be in the same hand as the rest of the certificate, > particularly where the witness "E.O. Scott" (almost certainly the > bride's mother) is concerned. I have also noticed that the marriage > was by licence. An image of the original register is on the Ancestry London records collection. The 'nee Scott' bit, although below the line for the signature, is part of Helen Constance Winterfeldt's signature. This is clear because she crossed her t's in a way that is distinct from the other writing on the page. I would read the witness signature as more likely E. D. Scott, though E. O. is possible. Best wishes Andrew -- Andrew Millard - [email protected] Bodimeade genealogy:   http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/Bodimeade/ My family history:     http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/

Hello, I see that there is a Family Tree on anc.com or is this your own tree eddy in bavaria ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush"To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: [SOG-UK] German Records Does anyone know if there are any census records extant for Germany circa 1900? I have a British national, Helen Constance Scott, who married a German citizen, Hans Winterfeldt at St Philip's, South Kensington on 8 September 1898. A Mr and Mrs Winterfeldt are among 800 passengers booked on the S.S. Teutonic which left Liverpool on 12 October 1898, bound for New York. According to the U.S. Immigration manifest, only 757 passengers arrived in New York on 20 October, of which 340 had actually embarked, not at Liverpool, but at Queenstown, County Cork on 13 October. The Winterfeldts do not appear on the Immigration manifest so I assume that like the other 41 missing passengers they must have disembarked at Queenstown. Neither of them appear in the censuses for 1900/1901 in the U.S.A., Ireland or the U.K. On 15 July 1907, Helen Constance Winterfeldt, née Scott, single!!, married Ernest Chittenden Bridges at Paddington, All Saints. As she does not claim to be widowed, it seems reasonable to suppose she was divorced, but she does not appear in the Divorce Records on FindMyPast. It therefore looks as if my only chance of discovering how and when her first marriage ended is to find where she was living between 1898 and 1907, hence my interest in Germany. Any pointers would be most welcome. Regards George Bush ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My thanks to everyone who has responded. It never fails to amaze me how much work members are prepared to do for each other. Researching the Winterfeldt family, especially the grounds for the possible annulment of Hans's marriage, should help me to pass the rest of the winter without the risk of boredom setting in. Just one final question, if I may; how do I go about obtaining a copy of the licence for Helen's second marriage? George

Good points, Chris and John. What were the Church of England's rules on remarriage of divorcees in church back in 1907? Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com On 23 January 2012 10:33, Our Mail <[email protected]> wrote: > If one is no longer married, whether as a result of death, divorce or > annulment, isn't one 'single'?  Other terms such as widow(er), divorcee > merely explain the single status.  if the marriage certificate had said > 'spinster' that would clearly have been wrong. > > John > > On 23/01/2012 8:46 PM, Chris Watts wrote: >> If her marriage had been annuled would she descibe herself as Mrs >> Winterfeldt? Or have I got the individuals mixed up? >> >> Chris Watts >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Caroline Gurney"<[email protected]> >> To:<[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 11:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] German Records >> >> >>> George, >>> >>> The Times for Friday 6 November 1906, page 10 (Court News) carried the >>> announcement: >>> >>> A marriage has been arranged between Dr E Chittenden Bridges, of South >>> Kensington, and Mrs Winterfeldt, daughter of the late Dr William >>> Scott, of Waverley-house, Huddersfield. >>> >>> So the Winterfeldt marriage ended before that date. The "single and >>> unmarried" wording on the 1907 marriage certificate further suggests >>> that it ended in annulment rather than divorce. Annulment declares the >>> marriage invalid so that, in the eyes of the law, Helen had never been >>> married and was indeed single. >>> >>> If you Google Hans Winterfeldt and his father, Max, you will find >>> there is a lot of information about them available online, >>> particularly in Google Books. They were German bankers with interests >>> in the UK, USA and South Africa. Hans became a US citizen well before >>> the First World War. Judging by the passenger lists on Ancestry, he >>> was a frequent traveller to and from the United States. >>> >>> Caroline Gurney >>> www.carosfamily.com >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If her marriage had been annuled would she descibe herself as Mrs Winterfeldt? Or have I got the individuals mixed up? Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline Gurney" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] German Records > George, > > The Times for Friday 6 November 1906, page 10 (Court News) carried the > announcement: > > A marriage has been arranged between Dr E Chittenden Bridges, of South > Kensington, and Mrs Winterfeldt, daughter of the late Dr William > Scott, of Waverley-house, Huddersfield. > > So the Winterfeldt marriage ended before that date. The "single and > unmarried" wording on the 1907 marriage certificate further suggests > that it ended in annulment rather than divorce. Annulment declares the > marriage invalid so that, in the eyes of the law, Helen had never been > married and was indeed single. > > If you Google Hans Winterfeldt and his father, Max, you will find > there is a lot of information about them available online, > particularly in Google Books. They were German bankers with interests > in the UK, USA and South Africa. Hans became a US citizen well before > the First World War. Judging by the passenger lists on Ancestry, he > was a frequent traveller to and from the United States. > > Caroline Gurney > www.carosfamily.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

George, More digging on Ancestry turned up two US passport applications from Hans Winterfeldt dated 1919 and 1921 which give a lot of biographical information - some of it contradictory - plus physical descriptions and photographs. Hans stated that he emigrated to the USA from England in December of either 1899 or 1900 and was naturalised a US citizen in 1909. He had a daughter, Violet, born in Rome, Italy on 2 January 1905, who was still living in 1919. He also stated that he lived in New York from 1904 to 1919, although it is clear from the passenger lists, not to mention the birth of a daughter in Rome, that he actually travelled a great deal during those years. A passenger list for the SS Kaiser Wilhelm II, departing from Southampton for New York on 10 January 1906, shows Hans accompanied by a new wife, Louise. Louise died in France in 1914: http://goo.gl/bjXMf and by 1919 he had married again, to a lady with the Christian names Evelyne Jeanne Marie, born in Lyons, France in 1875. I also found on Ancestry a short biography of Hans Winterfeldt in "Who's who in New York City and State: a biographical dictionary of contemporaries", 1911 edition, which shows that he was born in Berlin on 9 February 1873 and educated in Berlin and Heidelberg. (His passport applications note a scar on his left cheek - a Heidelberg duelling scar?) He served in the German Cuirassier Regiment. His second wife's maiden name was Louise Druce. >From various documents it appears that his permanent home was the Ritz Carlton Hotel in New York. Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com

George, The Times for Friday 6 November 1906, page 10 (Court News) carried the announcement: A marriage has been arranged between Dr E Chittenden Bridges, of South Kensington, and Mrs Winterfeldt, daughter of the late Dr William Scott, of Waverley-house, Huddersfield. So the Winterfeldt marriage ended before that date. The "single and unmarried" wording on the 1907 marriage certificate further suggests that it ended in annulment rather than divorce. Annulment declares the marriage invalid so that, in the eyes of the law, Helen had never been married and was indeed single. If you Google Hans Winterfeldt and his father, Max, you will find there is a lot of information about them available online, particularly in Google Books. They were German bankers with interests in the UK, USA and South Africa. Hans became a US citizen well before the First World War. Judging by the passenger lists on Ancestry, he was a frequent traveller to and from the United States. Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com

Chris Thanks for suggesting I get a copy of the licence. I was aware that the certificates from GRO were all completed in one hand, but I assumed it was the vicar or registrar. It looks as if I have been maligning the wrong person in the past when I have received a certificate that appeared to have been completed by someone close to having his own entry in the Death Index. :-) George

George, Follow up and get a copy of the licence. Be very very careful when comparing handwriting on certificates. Anything issued by the GRO is of no use for that purpose as the handwring will that be of the clerks who made the copy sent by the vicar or supt registrar to the GRO. One issued by the vicar or supt registrar may be ok but only if it is photocpy from the original register and not a copy made by either of them. Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:13 PM Subject: [SOG-UK] German Records > David > > Your comments have prompted me to look at the certificate a little more > closely. Although "nee Scott" does look like a later addition, it does > appear to be in the same hand as the rest of the certificate, particularly > where the witness "E.O. Scott" (almost certainly the bride's mother) is > concerned. I have also noticed that the marriage was by licence. Perhaps > this is where "single and unmarried" came from. I would imagine that as > she > gave Scott as the name of her father, both the vicar and whoever issued > the > licence would have to be convinced she was free to marry in the name > Winterfeldt. > > I must say it never occurred to me to look for another voyage to the > U.S.A., > mainly because I could find no trace of them having returned from the > first > one. At least if I can find some German records to search it will cut down > the number of years I shall have to look at. > > George > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

David Your comments have prompted me to look at the certificate a little more closely. Although "nee Scott" does look like a later addition, it does appear to be in the same hand as the rest of the certificate, particularly where the witness "E.O. Scott" (almost certainly the bride's mother) is concerned. I have also noticed that the marriage was by licence. Perhaps this is where "single and unmarried" came from. I would imagine that as she gave Scott as the name of her father, both the vicar and whoever issued the licence would have to be convinced she was free to marry in the name Winterfeldt. I must say it never occurred to me to look for another voyage to the U.S.A., mainly because I could find no trace of them having returned from the first one. At least if I can find some German records to search it will cut down the number of years I shall have to look at. George

I don't have the answer to your question about German records but have spotted something. Hans and Helen were still together in 1903. They travelled from England to America aboard the Kaiser Willhelm II in December 1903. The marriage certificate in 1907 is strange. It says "single and unmarried" where it would normally say spinster, widowed or divorced, and someone has then written her as "nee Scott" below. This seems to say something but others may know what that is! Perhaps he died or they separated, and she returned to England, relying on different (US/UK) jurisdictions to claim unmarried status..... David M -----Original Message----- From: George Bush Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 5:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [SOG-UK] German Records Does anyone know if there are any census records extant for Germany circa 1900? I have a British national, Helen Constance Scott, who married a German citizen, Hans Winterfeldt at St Philip’s, South Kensington on 8 September 1898. A Mr and Mrs Winterfeldt are among 800 passengers booked on the S.S. Teutonic which left Liverpool on 12 October 1898, bound for New York. According to the U.S. Immigration manifest, only 757 passengers arrived in New York on 20 October, of which 340 had actually embarked, not at Liverpool, but at Queenstown, County Cork on 13 October. The Winterfeldts do not appear on the Immigration manifest so I assume that like the other 41 missing passengers they must have disembarked at Queenstown. Neither of them appear in the censuses for 1900/1901 in the U.S.A., Ireland or the U.K. On 15 July 1907, Helen Constance Winterfeldt, née Scott, single!!, married Ernest Chittenden Bridges at Paddington, All Saints. As she does not claim to be widowed, it seems reasonable to suppose she was divorced, but she does not appear in the Divorce Records on FindMyPast. It therefore looks as if my only chance of discovering how and when her first marriage ended is to find where she was living between 1898 and 1907, hence my interest in Germany. Any pointers would be most welcome. Regards George Bush ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know if there are any census records extant for Germany circa 1900? I have a British national, Helen Constance Scott, who married a German citizen, Hans Winterfeldt at St Philip’s, South Kensington on 8 September 1898. A Mr and Mrs Winterfeldt are among 800 passengers booked on the S.S. Teutonic which left Liverpool on 12 October 1898, bound for New York. According to the U.S. Immigration manifest, only 757 passengers arrived in New York on 20 October, of which 340 had actually embarked, not at Liverpool, but at Queenstown, County Cork on 13 October. The Winterfeldts do not appear on the Immigration manifest so I assume that like the other 41 missing passengers they must have disembarked at Queenstown. Neither of them appear in the censuses for 1900/1901 in the U.S.A., Ireland or the U.K. On 15 July 1907, Helen Constance Winterfeldt, née Scott, single!!, married Ernest Chittenden Bridges at Paddington, All Saints. As she does not claim to be widowed, it seems reasonable to suppose she was divorced, but she does not appear in the Divorce Records on FindMyPast. It therefore looks as if my only chance of discovering how and when her first marriage ended is to find where she was living between 1898 and 1907, hence my interest in Germany. Any pointers would be most welcome. Regards George Bush

Irene, The Description Book for 1 Battn 52 Foot, 1803-1808 (WO 25/406 fo 74) tells us: Joseph BOYE, height 5ft 4ins, age 18 years; complexion [Round]; visage Oval, eyes Hazel, hair Dark Brown. Born Berks, Wantage; trade Labourer. Enlisted by Major Brand at Newbury 17 July 1805. Transfered from 2 Battn 24 April 1808. The Description Book for 2 Battn 52 Foot, 1807-1831 (WO 25/408 fo 18) tells us: Joseph BUY, height 5ft 1 1/2ins, age 16 years; complexion Fair, visage Brown, eyes Hazel, hair Brown. Born Berks, Wantage; trade Farmer. Former service: Recruit.. Enlisted by [SM] Burdett at Newbury 26 Feb 1805. Boy from GS transferred to 1 Battn 24 April 1808. The ages/place of birth would seem to indicate that you have located the correct man in the registers for Wantage. cheers Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Marlborough" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Foundlings in the Army > Doh! I can't believe I got the arithmetic wrong again! Thanks for pointing > it out Caroline. I must say that I am really excited by all this. The chap > who told me that Joseph was a foundling did me a favour. It seemed all too > plausible but now it seems that it wasn't true at all. > > Chris Watts is a true champ with this RAOGK. I can only say that I do my > best to pass the favour forwards. > > I'll keep the list posted about progress with Joseph. I'm glad that so > many > of you were intrigued by the story. > > Best wishes, Irene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Chris: Thank you so very much for this. After Joseph being a mystery man for 20+ years for me, now I feel I can almost see him. I'm a bit confused about the 2 different enlistment dates. Farmer is probably an inflated description of ag lab. But was he 18 on enlistment or 16? The 2nd description is evidently of a later date but it's certainly the same chap. I read up a bit about recruitment and found it fascinating stuff. It seems to me that Joseph must have signed up for life otherwise he'd have taken a discharge in 1812 or 1819. Especially likely in 1819 as he was about to be married. Now if it's true that he was in "for life", how did he get permission to marry? And what woman in her right mind would marry such a man. He sounds like a good looker - must be where I get my looks from :-)). But even so, unless she got permission to travel with the regiment (unlikely) she'd be lucky to see him again. I'm convinced enough to begin researching the BUY/BYE family of Berkshire though it's a new county for me and I'm unsure of the resources. In the meantime, I'm still investigating the life of ordinary soldiers and I'm still very interested in the recruitment process. At 16 would he have been given his own signing bonus or would that have been paid to his parents. In other words, might he have been "sold" to the army - with his consent, of course but without understanding the true consequences at that tender age. It's still absolutely stunning to have such a graphic description of my 4th gt grandfather. Thank you so much, Irene

Hi: A colleague, Richard Grylls and I, lead the Devon Wills Project, a co-operation involving the Devon FHS, the Devon RO, GENUKI/Devon, and the Plymouth and West Devon RO to compile an Index of Devon wills, administrations, etc. The aim of the project, which is motivated by the total destruction of the Exeter Probate Office and its contents during WW2, is to provide a finding-aid in the form of a consolidated index of Devon testators covering (and distinguishing between) original documents, probate copies, transcripts and abstracts. The Project, which has involved a considerable number of volunteers, is now in its final stages, having compiled an index containing over 200,000 entries, from some 420 sources. However, there is one important source, a set of eight manuscript volumes at the British Library, containing abstracts of perhaps 8000 Devon wills, whose indexing we are seeking help to complete. Neither Richard nor I can easily spend much time at BL, and none of our available volunteers is London based, so at the moment the indexing of these volumes is only about 25% complete. If any member of this SoG mailing list, and user of BL, would be prepared to contributing to DWP by doing some indexing for us at BL, please contact me directly so that we can discuss what is involved. Full details of the Project can be found at: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonWillsProject/ Cheers Brian Randell -- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = [email protected] PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell

Irene, In your excitement, you've got your calculations wrong. If Joseph was born in October 1786 he would have been 17 in January 1804. I take my hat off to Chris Watts for doing this research. Like him I've become very interested in Joseph. Do let us know if you find out more. Caroline Gurney www.carosfamily.com www.cmgurney.blogspot.com On 14 January 2012 20:32, Irene Marlborough <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Chris: > > Well, I'm overwhelmed at your generosity. Thank you so much! This info all > ties in nicely with the known facts. If he were of a similar age to his wife > Elizabeth then he'd have been about 14 in 1804 when he enlisted. > > At least now I can begin looking for his wife's remarriage from 1826 onwards > and perhaps she was still in Wrexham and not in Manchester where she was in > 1851 and 1861. > > And bingo! A quick look at familysearch gives the baptism of Joseph BYE son > of Joseph & Mary BYE at Wantage on 3 Mar 1787, birth date16 Oct 1786. > There's another one baptised in Aldermaston the same year but the army death > record seems to be clear. > > That's a fair bit younger than I'd thought. He'd have been only 7 in January > 1804 and appointed drummer when he was 8 years old the summer of the > following year. Does this seem likely? There are quite a few BYE families in > Berkshire. It's a new county for me - I have no other ancestors from there. > I'm unfamiliar with the LDS coverage, placenames and which surnames are > common. So I will need to do more research to be satisfied that this is the > correct boy (BOY, BUY, BYE!). > > And it appears that there's nothing to the foundling story. The current > owner of Joseph's Waterloo medal didn't know what he was talking about. > Joseph's widow must have had to pawn the medal. I would have liked to have > seen a photo of it at least. > > I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out like this. A lot > more avenues of research have opened up. And I'm now conjuring with the > image of a 7 year old soldier! > > I'll let you and the list know if I find out any more. > > Best wishes and thanks a million, > Regards, Irene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Irene, Thank you for providing the full info - it helps a lot. I'm not sure why but this man caught my interest - I have researched dozens of similar cases, so maybe I needed to convince myself that I could still do it!! I had a little time to spare whilst at TNA today so looked into it further. Based on my "hunch" that he must have left the army between 1821 and 1841 I did a selective search of the msuter books for the 1st Battalion 52nd Foot and found that Private Joseph BOYE died 20 May 1826 whilst the regiment was in Frederickton, St Johns and St Andrews (in New Brunswick). This is recorded in the muster book for 25 March - 24 June 1826 (TNA ref WO 12/6258). During that search I was able to determine that he qualified for extra pay after 7 years service between December 1824 and March 1825. Guided by the 7 year extra pay I attempted a selective check to determine his enlistment. The muster book (WO 12/6250) showed that had transfered from the 2nd Battalion on 25 Sept 1809. His surname is at that point - and earlier - recorded as BUY. He was being recorded under "Drummers & Fifers". I search back further in the muster books of the 2nd Btn until I saw that he was "Appointed Drummer" on 25 June 1805 (WO 12/6310). I did not look earlier. With all this info I looked in the Casualty Returns for the 1st Btn (in WO 25/1853). The one dated 25 May to 24 June 1826 contains the following: Private Joseph BOYE, born Wantage, Berkshire, a Labourer. Enlisted 19 Jan 1804. Died Mirimache 20 May 1825 (Query: should this be 1826??). Next of kin: wife, Elizabeth, last residence, Wexham, Denbeigh[shire]. There are two notes: "Medal sent to the widow, Eliz'th BOYS, 8 June 1827" and "Joseph BOYS small accompt book and Waterloo medal enclosed" Hope that this helps. If you want to take things further by tracing his service month-by-month (and checking those dates) then the muster books are there at TNA but do set aside adequate time for it - could be 1 to 1.5 days!! cheers Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Marlborough" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] SOG-UK Foundlings in the Army > Hi Blair: > > Yes, Joseph was with the 1st Battalion of the 52nd Regiment of Foot with > Capt. James McNair's Company. I'm told that this was also known as the > Oxfordshire Regt. (Light Infantry). > > Ken's correspondence from Rootschat also gave the locations of the 1st Btn > from 1814 through to 1823 whereupon they left for New Brunswick and Nova > Scotia for 8 years. Ken further mentioned that Joseph is not listed in the > medal roll for the Peninsular War. I'm thinking that this was because > Joseph > was deceased by the time these were announced in 1847. Here is all the > actual info I have about Joseph's whereabouts (as opposed to where his > Battalion was). > > Since Joseph was awarded a Waterloo medal, we have to assume he was there > and serving in 1815. > On 21 Jun 1819 he married at St. John's church, Chester. His occupation > was > given as Private 52 Foot - though afaik he was still listed in the > drummer/fifer rolls at this time. His bride, Elizabeth ANDREWS was > baptised > at Minera, Denbighshire in 1791 so she was probably not of full age. > Perhaps > Joseph was still a teenager too. > > And here's more info about Joseph but does not indicate his presence. > Baptism of Ann BOY 21 Oct 1821 at Wrexham, daughter of Joseph and > Elizabeth > BOY. Father's occupation - a soldier. > Marriage of Ann BOY at Manchester Collegiate/Cathedral Church 27 Apr 1841, > bride's father Joseph BOY, a weaver. No indication that he was deceased > though he may have been. > > And Joseph was probably deceased by 1851, when his wife/widow Elizabeth > can > be found on the 1851 census for Manchester as Elizabeth THOMAS. I know > that > this is she because in 1861 she's living with her daughter and all the > details match. I've not been able to find Elizabeth's remarriage yet and > maybe there wasn't one. > > It's entirely possible that Joseph went to Nova Scotia with his regiment > and > never returned having either died or settled there with a new family. > Since > Ann gives her father's occupation of weaver though would indicate that she > knew that he did leave the army for civilian life. > > I would love to know what became of Joseph and whether he and his wife > Elizabeth ever managed to live together. I gather that only a small > proportion of Army wives were allowed to travel with the regiment so it's > unlikely that she was with him in Ireland or Canada. Though if we assume > a > prompt baptism for his daughter Ann in Oct 1821, then we know that Joseph > and Elizabeth were together in the winter of 1820/21 when the regiment was > supposedly in Ireland. Perhaps he had leave or it may have been relatively > easy for her to visit him from Wales. > > Sorry to have been so long-winded but now you know pretty much everything > that I know about Joseph. > > Regards and thanks, Irene > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Doh! I can't believe I got the arithmetic wrong again! Thanks for pointing it out Caroline. I must say that I am really excited by all this. The chap who told me that Joseph was a foundling did me a favour. It seemed all too plausible but now it seems that it wasn't true at all. Chris Watts is a true champ with this RAOGK. I can only say that I do my best to pass the favour forwards. I'll keep the list posted about progress with Joseph. I'm glad that so many of you were intrigued by the story. Best wishes, Irene