John Newton was involved in the slave trade from 1744 to 1754, a period of 10 years, 84-94 years after 1660. Caroline Gurney www.carolinegurney.com On 12 March 2012 17:50, Jane Hammond <[email protected]> wrote: > I used to work under a Peter Tucker from Sierra Leone (this was in a quango > and he was my boss).  His forbear was an Englishman who had gone to Sierra > Leone in around 1660 and settled there in Bo.  In the 18th century he was > for 50 years the trading partner of John Newton, supplying him with slaves > before the latter's conversion to Christianity. > > I could certainly contact Peter if it would help. > > Jane Brown > [email protected] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MILLARD A.R." <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 3:36 PM > Subject: [SOG-UK] going to Africa in 1723 > > > On 30 July 1723 Catherine Acrod, widow of St Botolph Bishopsgate London, > made a will which mentioned that her son John Acrod intended to go to > Africa, and making provision for his share of the inheritance should he die. > On 7 August 1726 she added a codicil which states that she had information > that he had died in Africa. I'd like to know more about this trip to Africa. > As far as I can tell the only British possessions in Africa at this time > were on the coast of West Africa for the slave and gold trade, and these > were largely operated by the Royal African Company. The Company records are > at the National Archives in class T70, but the catalogue is not very > detailed, and the online discussion of them that I have found is about how > they can be used to study the slave trade. > > Does anyone on the list know whether this is the best place to look for a > well-to-do Londoner who went to Africa in the 1720s? Are the Royal African > Company records any use for tracing Englishmen rather than slaves? Are there > other records worth looking at to establish more about what John Acrod was > doing in Africa and what happened to him? > > > Andrew > -- > Andrew Millard - [email protected] > Bodimeade genealogy: http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/Bodimeade/ > My family history: http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ > GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I used to work under a Peter Tucker from Sierra Leone (this was in a quango and he was my boss). His forbear was an Englishman who had gone to Sierra Leone in around 1660 and settled there in Bo. In the 18th century he was for 50 years the trading partner of John Newton, supplying him with slaves before the latter's conversion to Christianity. I could certainly contact Peter if it would help. Jane Brown [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "MILLARD A.R." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 3:36 PM Subject: [SOG-UK] going to Africa in 1723 On 30 July 1723 Catherine Acrod, widow of St Botolph Bishopsgate London, made a will which mentioned that her son John Acrod intended to go to Africa, and making provision for his share of the inheritance should he die. On 7 August 1726 she added a codicil which states that she had information that he had died in Africa. I'd like to know more about this trip to Africa. As far as I can tell the only British possessions in Africa at this time were on the coast of West Africa for the slave and gold trade, and these were largely operated by the Royal African Company. The Company records are at the National Archives in class T70, but the catalogue is not very detailed, and the online discussion of them that I have found is about how they can be used to study the slave trade. Does anyone on the list know whether this is the best place to look for a well-to-do Londoner who went to Africa in the 1720s? Are the Royal African Company records any use for tracing Englishmen rather than slaves? Are there other records worth looking at to establish more about what John Acrod was doing in Africa and what happened to him? Andrew -- Andrew Millard - [email protected] Bodimeade genealogy: http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/Bodimeade/ My family history: http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 07:01 12/03/2012, Andrew Millard wrote: >Does anyone on the list know whether this is the best place to look >for a well-to-do Londoner who went to Africa in the 1720s? I don't, but I found the South Africa Immigrants - British mailing listb wonderfully helpful when I was trying to trace half a dozen separate twigs of my BELL family in South Africa. See: http://bigfile.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/listsearch Don

The catalogue of the South African National Archives has a reference (between 1910 and 1911) to BARRY, WALTER PATRICK. (ALIAS WALTER GEORGE BARRY).www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?201203121247459A4DCB05&DN=00000002and another to Walter Patrick BARRY.Have you made a search for a will for this man here in the UK (E+W or Scotland). If he died abroard but had property here the the will should have been resealed here.cheersChris Watts----- Original Message ----- From: "ag.hamilton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] going to Africa > The thread about going to Africa in the eighteenth century has spurred me > to ask about a more recent Africa connection. > > A will written in 1917 includes a reference to 'my interest in my son > Walter Barry's Land in Africa'. > > Walter George BARRY was b. in Middlesex in 1867. I can't find him after > 1881 although there is a possible illegitimate child in 1888. > > He was presumably alive when his father's will was written in 1917 but was > dead by 1929 when his name appears, with other deceased family members, on > a memorial window in the church in West Drayton, Middlesex which was > dedicated in 1929. > > Does anyone have a suggestion about this 'Land in Africa'. At that time > where in Africa was land likely to be bought? Would Walter have actually > been in Africa to buy it? I can't find a death for him so have rather > assumed that he died abroad although I can't find any trace of that or of > any voyages either. > > Would there be records somewhere about the purchase of this 'Land in > Africa'. > > This is all rather nebulous. Any ideas about the mysterious Walter and > his land would be very welcome. > > Angela > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Beware of the indexes on ancestry. They give the port of departure of the ship and not the passenger. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Faiers" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] going to Africa > Just had a quick glance at incoming passenger lists on Ancestry and > there are several entries for a W Barry travelling from South Africa to > the UK and a Rev. W G Barry incoming from Australia. Might be worth a > look. > > Good luck > > Barry > > On 12/03/2012 09:04, ag.hamilton wrote: >> The thread about going to Africa in the eighteenth century has spurred me >> to ask about a more recent Africa connection. >> >> A will written in 1917 includes a reference to 'my interest in my son >> Walter Barry's Land in Africa'. >> >> Walter George BARRY was b. in Middlesex in 1867. I can't find him after >> 1881 although there is a possible illegitimate child in 1888. >> >> He was presumably alive when his father's will was written in 1917 but >> was dead by 1929 when his name appears, with other deceased family >> members, on a memorial window in the church in West Drayton, Middlesex >> which was dedicated in 1929. >> >> Does anyone have a suggestion about this 'Land in Africa'. At that time >> where in Africa was land likely to be bought? Would Walter have actually >> been in Africa to buy it? I can't find a death for him so have rather >> assumed that he died abroad although I can't find any trace of that or of >> any voyages either. >> >> Would there be records somewhere about the purchase of this 'Land in >> Africa'. >> >> This is all rather nebulous. Any ideas about the mysterious Walter and >> his land would be very welcome. >> >> Angela >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Just had a quick glance at incoming passenger lists on Ancestry and there are several entries for a W Barry travelling from South Africa to the UK and a Rev. W G Barry incoming from Australia. Might be worth a look. Good luck Barry On 12/03/2012 09:04, ag.hamilton wrote: > The thread about going to Africa in the eighteenth century has spurred me to ask about a more recent Africa connection. > > A will written in 1917 includes a reference to 'my interest in my son Walter Barry's Land in Africa'. > > Walter George BARRY was b. in Middlesex in 1867. I can't find him after 1881 although there is a possible illegitimate child in 1888. > > He was presumably alive when his father's will was written in 1917 but was dead by 1929 when his name appears, with other deceased family members, on a memorial window in the church in West Drayton, Middlesex which was dedicated in 1929. > > Does anyone have a suggestion about this 'Land in Africa'. At that time where in Africa was land likely to be bought? Would Walter have actually been in Africa to buy it? I can't find a death for him so have rather assumed that he died abroad although I can't find any trace of that or of any voyages either. > > Would there be records somewhere about the purchase of this 'Land in Africa'. > > This is all rather nebulous. Any ideas about the mysterious Walter and his land would be very welcome. > > Angela > >

The thread about going to Africa in the eighteenth century has spurred me to ask about a more recent Africa connection. A will written in 1917 includes a reference to 'my interest in my son Walter Barry's Land in Africa'. Walter George BARRY was b. in Middlesex in 1867. I can't find him after 1881 although there is a possible illegitimate child in 1888. He was presumably alive when his father's will was written in 1917 but was dead by 1929 when his name appears, with other deceased family members, on a memorial window in the church in West Drayton, Middlesex which was dedicated in 1929. Does anyone have a suggestion about this 'Land in Africa'. At that time where in Africa was land likely to be bought? Would Walter have actually been in Africa to buy it? I can't find a death for him so have rather assumed that he died abroad although I can't find any trace of that or of any voyages either. Would there be records somewhere about the purchase of this 'Land in Africa'. This is all rather nebulous. Any ideas about the mysterious Walter and his land would be very welcome. Angela

Andrew, Having lived for some years in West Africa, my immediate thought when reading your message was of the forts on the Gold Coast (Ghana) which the British began establishing in the 17th century (the Portuguese and Dutch even earlier). In addition to gold and slaves, they also traded in palm oil and timber. This website: http://goo.gl/06zzR gives a list of the forts and castles, with dates of establishment. The records in class T70 at Kew should be of use to you. They include detailed inventories of the forts, listing employees by name; contracts of employment naming individuals and listing their positions and salaries; and lists of auctions of property belonging to deceased employees. Since John Acrod died in Africa, his possessions might appear in the auction lists. Senate House Library, London, has a 1725 report on the Royal African Company's activities in Sierra Leone: http://archives.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/dispatcher.aspx?action=search&database=ChoiceArchive&search=priref=110016015. An ideal date for your purposes. The Bodleian also has Royal African Company material: http://goo.gl/PgBNi. 1723 was the year Captain Bartholomew Stibbs explored up the River Gambia. His journal is available online: http://goo.gl/F0xKa. Happy hunting! Do let us know if you find anything. Caroline Gurney www.carolinegurney.com On 11 March 2012 15:36, MILLARD A.R. <[email protected]> wrote: > On 30 July 1723 Catherine Acrod, widow of St Botolph Bishopsgate London, made a will which mentioned that her son John Acrod intended to go to Africa, and making provision for his share of the inheritance should he die.  On 7 August 1726 she added a codicil which states that she had information that he had died in Africa. I'd like to know more about this trip to Africa. As far as I can tell the only British possessions in Africa at this time were on the coast of West Africa for the slave and gold trade, and these were largely operated by the Royal African Company. The Company records are at the National Archives in class T70, but the catalogue is not very detailed, and the online discussion of them that I have found is about how they can be used to study the slave trade. > > Does anyone on the list know whether this is the best place to look for a well-to-do Londoner who went to Africa in the 1720s? Are the Royal African Company records any use for tracing Englishmen rather than slaves? Are there other records worth looking at to establish more about what John Acrod was doing in Africa and what happened to him? > > > Andrew

On 30 July 1723 Catherine Acrod, widow of St Botolph Bishopsgate London, made a will which mentioned that her son John Acrod intended to go to Africa, and making provision for his share of the inheritance should he die. On 7 August 1726 she added a codicil which states that she had information that he had died in Africa. I'd like to know more about this trip to Africa. As far as I can tell the only British possessions in Africa at this time were on the coast of West Africa for the slave and gold trade, and these were largely operated by the Royal African Company. The Company records are at the National Archives in class T70, but the catalogue is not very detailed, and the online discussion of them that I have found is about how they can be used to study the slave trade. Does anyone on the list know whether this is the best place to look for a well-to-do Londoner who went to Africa in the 1720s? Are the Royal African Company records any use for tracing Englishmen rather than slaves? Are there other records worth looking at to establish more about what John Acrod was doing in Africa and what happened to him? Andrew -- Andrew Millard - [email protected] Bodimeade genealogy:   http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/Bodimeade/ My family history:     http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/

Yes but he may well have actually worked for the Ordnance Survey. Lots of material at TNA to explore both angles. Chris Watts ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:21 PM Subject: [SOG-UK] Occupations >I have a query regarding the occupation as shown on a marriage certificate >of > 1900. The father (already deceased) was described as a 'Surveyor R.E.'. > Can I > presume this refers to an Army appointment with the Royal Engineers? I > have a > number of Alexander Taylor's listed serving with the R.E.'s during 1899 - > 1902 > but little else. > > > > Any advice please? > > > > Chris Stupples. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I have a query regarding the occupation as shown on a marriage certificate of 1900. The father (already deceased) was described as a 'Surveyor R.E.'. Can I presume this refers to an Army appointment with the Royal Engineers? I have a number of Alexander Taylor's listed serving with the R.E.'s during 1899 - 1902 but little else. Any advice please? Chris Stupples.

I believe that the large numbers can be explained in part by financial considerations. Apparently the Collegiate Church claimed the right to the fees for marriages in the parishes in their area. This meant that couples who married in their local church had to pay twice. Not surprisingly, therefore, many couples chose to be married in the Cathedral and thus pay only one fee. George -------Original Message------- From: Chris Watts Date: 03/04/12 13:58:10 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] Banns - how long before wedding? >> It was such a cattle market at the Collegiate Church that >> nobody >> would be likely to notice any number of transgressions of rules. > > I think its generally regarded as having been a "no questions asked" > place to get married - a bit more up-market than The Fleet, and not as > far away as Gretna. So probably as long as the appropriate fee changed > hands any old banns would do! :-) > > hugh I thought that it just happened to be the parish church for the best part of central Manchester and there was no alternative until well into Victorian times But I stand open to correction. Chris ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 28 Feb at 19:27, Ena Dowson <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi,I wonder if anyone can help with this.Two brothers married two > sisters. The elder brother married the elder sister who was an heiress > and changed his surname to hers. Is there a special way of showing > this on the family tree? Most packages have a field called something like 'Suffix Title' and I put '(born SMITH') in this field. Then set the chart drawing software to display the Suffix Title field. Or go to the mailing list for your software and ask your question there. Some Real Expert will know the answer. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe [email protected] for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

For those who went on the SoG visit to Christ Church Spitalfields in January, there is a new magnificent photograph of it via this link http://spitalfieldslife.com/2012/02/18/a-view-of-christ-church-spitalfields/ Can I also commend the parent web site http://spitalfieldslife.com to anyone with an interest in the wider area, for its comprehensive historical accounts and many many historic photographs. You will have to search a little because the articles and photographs are listed both by category and by month of publication, down the right hand side of the 'Home' page; it is a long list and you need to keep scrolling down! Barry Hepburn

>> It was such a cattle market at the Collegiate Church that >> nobody >> would be likely to notice any number of transgressions of rules. > > I think its generally regarded as having been a "no questions asked" > place to get married - a bit more up-market than The Fleet, and not as > far away as Gretna. So probably as long as the appropriate fee changed > hands any old banns would do! :-) > > hugh I thought that it just happened to be the parish church for the best part of central Manchester and there was no alternative until well into Victorian times But I stand open to correction. Chris

Many thanks for your very useful information. Diana ________________________________ From: MILLARD A.R. <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 11:08:50 AM Subject: Re: [SOG-UK] PCC wills > From: diana whistler > Sent: 03 March 2012 17:00 > > Since this was an index I am assuming that the documents that the > SoG used for compiling the online PCC will index will give no > further detail about the testator or content of the will. > For example, is a reference to the PROB 11 copy wills available? The printed version of the 1750-1800 index contains: Year Forename Surname Whether will or admon with will County Month Quire I don't know why the digital version does not include all this. Originally the year would have told you what register to look at and the quire (a group of 16 pages) where within that register. Each register is now covered by several piece numbers so you have to use a list at the National Archives to deduce relevant piece numbers from the year as described on their website here: http://tinyurl.com/7zx499j. Once you have that information you can find the will quickly in the microfilms of PROB 11. Best wishes Andrew -- Andrew Millard - [email protected] Bodimeade genealogy:   http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/Bodimeade/ My family history:     http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Jeremy. I'm delighted to learn of the unreliability of Willfinder. Last time I was at !st.Ave.House using it the whole thing ground to a complete halt. I thought I'd done something dreadful to it and was too embarrassed to ask anyone thinking they'd assume that I'm a computer illiterate old bat (which I suppose I am). Next time I shall take a much more robust approach to it. In the absence of the one hour system a rather speedier postal service would be welcome though. Angela Hamilton On 3 Mar 2012, at 8:38 pm, Jeremy Wilkes wrote: > I was at First Avenue House (in High Holborn, incidentally, not > Holbeck) on the day when the "one-hour" system failed, leaving a small > crowd of disgruntled customers, one of whom was rather vociferous. Up > to then it had, in my limited experience, taken about an hour and a > half. There seems to have been an unspecified problem in Birmingham. > There is a notice about a consultation on services which ended in > January, but I ascertained from the officer concerned that Else > Churchill had been in touch with him! > > Willfinder is notoriously unreliable, and the cognoscenti use it only > if they wish to raise their blood-pressure. Probateman (1996 onwards) > is good, but it is a bit irritating to have to type in a precise date > (or two precise dates to specify a period), and it could be improved by > allowing a search based on the date of the grant as well as one on date > of death. For grants since the end of the microfiches it gives all the > information that appears on the grant itself, so one can save the six > pounds if there is no will. > > The security staff retain all lighting equipment that visitors bring > until their departure: table lamps, light bulbs . . . As with all > courts, cameras are not allowed, but there is no objection to mobile > phones, and we all know what they can do. > > Jeremy Wilkes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> It was such a cattle market at the Collegiate Church that > nobody > would be likely to notice any number of transgressions of rules. I think its generally regarded as having been a "no questions asked" place to get married - a bit more up-market than The Fleet, and not as far away as Gretna. So probably as long as the appropriate fee changed hands any old banns would do! :-) hugh

> From: diana whistler > Sent: 03 March 2012 17:00 > > Since this was an index I am assuming that the documents that the > SoG used for compiling the online PCC will index will give no > further detail about the testator or content of the will. > For example, is a reference to the PROB 11 copy wills available? The printed version of the 1750-1800 index contains: Year Forename Surname Whether will or admon with will County Month Quire I don't know why the digital version does not include all this. Originally the year would have told you what register to look at and the quire (a group of 16 pages) where within that register. Each register is now covered by several piece numbers so you have to use a list at the National Archives to deduce relevant piece numbers from the year as described on their website here: http://tinyurl.com/7zx499j. Once you have that information you can find the will quickly in the microfilms of PROB 11. Best wishes Andrew -- Andrew Millard - [email protected] Bodimeade genealogy:   http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/Bodimeade/ My family history:     http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/

> From: Irene Marlborough > Sent: 03 March 2012 16:36 > > I'm looking at some Manchester Collegiate church marriages and have noticed > that there can be a very long gap between the banns being published and the > wedding taking place. <snip> > Are there any rules for how long this gap can be? The relevant legislation in 1788 would have been Hardwicke's Marriage Act of 1753, which makes no mention of a time limit for banns being effective. The text is on Guy Etchell's site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1753.htm Best wishes Andrew -- Andrew Millard - [email protected] Bodimeade genealogy:   http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/Bodimeade/ My family history:     http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.r.millard/genealogy/ GenUKI Middx + London: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ + ../LND/