>to the list: I asked Frank Kurchina of the Croatia-L list at Rootsweb to comment on the out of wedlock posting. What he sent me is most interesting and informative, and I hope you'll find it useful. Please address further questions on traditional and/or religious practices to Frank or to the Croatia-L list. Don't ask me. Unlike Frank, I don't speak, read, and write 6 languages. Hint: Frank is a most useful Web resource. Vesali Nova Godina, Ashley >Subject: Re: Fwd: Pregnant out of wedlock culture? > > > >Ashley Tiwara wrote: >> >> Frank, >> An interesting story below. If possible, could you comment >> on it? If you aren't on the Slovenia list, I would then post it, if >> you send me a note. Thanks. > > > > Ashley > > > > > > > >From: Mike Fox <[email protected]> > > >Subject: Pregnant out of wedlock culture? > >>To: [email protected] > > > >It nice to know that we didn't invent sex out of wedlock here in the US. >> >Grandpa got grandma pregnant in Slovenia, and her sisters already here in >> >the US made them get married as soon as they got here in 1905. >> > >> >Great-grandpa got great-grandma pregnant in 1879 and she lived with her >> >folks until they got married in 1882. >> > >> >Two in a row is curious, and I'm wondering if this was just culturally >> >acceptable in Slovenia back then. Anyone know? >> > > > >Mike >> >************************************************************************************ >Well, not only in Slovenija and not culturally acceptable. > >If you recall Roman Catholic birth documents in Europe, whether written >in a Slavic language or Hungarian or Latin or whatever have space in >church >template which asked for a reply which was : > >legitimate (zakonit [male] or zakonita [ female] which was asking >if child was legitimate. >while nezakonit/nezakonita meant illegitimate. > >The church made it difficult to claim legitimacy in records even if >father >attested child was his although he was not married to the child's >mother. >Better to burn in hell than have an illegimate child. >Of course, some village priests also had 'housekeepers' who bore >children. >My parental GF had had two wives , whether both at same time or not, I >am not >sure. > >He had two families as well. > >When family No. 2 came calling at his door , he threw them out. >I was about 8 years old at the time and my recollection is quite hazy. >A younger brother told me recently that when he and my family were >driving through the next state, circa 1940, the remark was ' we have >some relatives living here (ha, ha) but they are only peasants (ha,ha)' > >My GPs had boarders with same surname living at their addresses >according to >1910/1920 U.S. Censuses. >According to GF words 'not related '. > > >While looking at Ellis Island records I noted a surname Kurcina bearing >my GF's >first name who had emigrated at age 17 in 1899, earlier tham my family >(who had >emigrated in 1900) >Individual was from same village as my parental GM. >Her village was ten miles distant from GF's village. >For couples who married in Europe before emigration this was about the >maximun >distance between villages since people walked back then. >This individual had been listed in a U.S. census above under my GP's >address. >My GM had 6 children, 1 died. >This was correct and the 5 living children had been my father and >siblings. >My GPs had left his village of origin soon after his marriage in 1880s >to my GM >and moved to Budapest. >This puts their ages in early twenties. >Or, perhaps they were told to move from village ? > >In another Ellis Island Record an unknown (to me) female age 16 with >same first >name as my GM and same surname arrived from Budapest in 1902. >After female's death in 1960s I obtained copy of her death certificate. >Her father was listed as my GF. >Her mother was listed as 'unknown'. > >So above is all speculative, but .... Frank Kurchina --