I had heard once that this was common practice to insure that the future wife was fertile. True or not, I don't know. You are not the only one with multiple out of wedlock ancestors. It is actually quite common. I came across one relative (Polish) who had 5 children by 5 men and was married to one of them. Sound familiar? Today's culture is no worse than out ancestors. And one nationality was no worse than another. My mother was gossiped about because she was an out-of-wedlock mother with my sister. After doing my research I have found that she had a lot of company. The biggest tongue waggers were in the same boat. I have also found this situation with suicide. I think it was as common or more common with our ancestors. Mary > > Two in a row is curious, and I'm wondering if this was just culturally > acceptable in Slovenia back then. Anyone know? > > Mike > > > -- [email protected] http://genealogy2002.tripod.com http://communities.msn.com/Genealogy2000 _______________________________________________ Get your free email @ http://www.MailPuppy.com A Service of: http://www.DreamStarGroup.com _______________________________________________ Powered by Outblaze

I have been told that out of wedlock was very common in days past,(Slovenian or otherwise) and that the babies were "absorbed" into grandparents,aunts,uncles,etc. families until the parents could afford to marry; I was also told that this is the reason that first names seem to "run" in families--that way the wagging tongues could not definitely say "this one or that one" was or was not legitimate! Of course, it was not all "front page" news back then, and they did what they needed to do to protect their integrity, God bless them. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Urban <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Pregnant out of wedlock culture? > I had heard once that this was common practice to insure that the future wife was fertile. True or not, I don't know. You are not the only one with multiple out of wedlock ancestors. It is actually quite common. I came across one relative (Polish) who had 5 children by 5 men and was married to one of them. Sound familiar? Today's culture is no worse than out ancestors. And one nationality was no worse than another. My mother was gossiped about because she was an out-of-wedlock mother with my sister. After doing my research I have found that she had a lot of company. The biggest tongue waggers were in the same boat. > > I have also found this situation with suicide. I think it was as common or more common with our ancestors. > > Mary > > > > > > Two in a row is curious, and I'm wondering if this was just culturally > > acceptable in Slovenia back then. Anyone know? > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > -- > > > [email protected] > http://genealogy2002.tripod.com > http://communities.msn.com/Genealogy2000 > > > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email @ http://www.MailPuppy.com > A Service of: http://www.DreamStarGroup.com > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze >

It nice to know that we didn't invent sex out of wedlock here in the US. Grandpa got grandma pregnant in Slovenia, and her sisters already here in the US made them get married as soon as they got here in 1905. Great-grandpa got great-grandma pregnant in 1879 and she lived with her folks until they got married in 1882. Two in a row is curious, and I'm wondering if this was just culturally acceptable in Slovenia back then. Anyone know? Mike

It's pointless to pay too much attention to where the political lines were drawn. What matters is the ethnic group your wife's grandfather belonged to. Slovenes are from areas that now lie in Austria, Italy, Slovenia, Croatia and God knows where else. What language did the ship manifest say that he spoke? That's usually a good indication of what ethnic group he belongs to. Dave (the admin) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 9272-G Hanover Crossing Drive | Fax: (804) 559-9787 Mechanicsville, VA 23116 | Email: [email protected] USA | http: http://fuzzo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo "No trespassing 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 10:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Slovenia or Italy? Hello, I've got a question. My wife's grandfather was born in a town called UNC in 1904. His 1920 ship's list lists him as being born in UNC, Italy. UNC is now in Slovenia. My wife always thought that she was 100% Slovenian. With this new finding, does this make her 1/4 Italian? I'm posting this to both the Italy list and the Slovenian list. Any comments will be very much appreciated. Thanks -- Ron Serpico in Ohio

My mother's parents were from Slovenia, my father and his father were born in Austria, and my father's grandparents were from Bohemia. That makes me 100% Austro-Hungarian and I guess that's what your wife is also. Joe Lischka In a message dated 12/23/01 8:02:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Hello, > > I've got a question. My wife's grandfather was born in a town called UNC in > 1904. His 1920 ship's list lists him as being born in UNC, Italy. UNC is > now > in Slovenia. My wife always thought that she was 100% Slovenian. With this > new finding, does this make her 1/4 Italian? > > I'm posting this to both the Italy list and the Slovenian list. Any > comments > will be very much appreciated. > > Thanks -- Ron Serpico in Ohio > >

Hello, I've got a question. My wife's grandfather was born in a town called UNC in 1904. His 1920 ship's list lists him as being born in UNC, Italy. UNC is now in Slovenia. My wife always thought that she was 100% Slovenian. With this new finding, does this make her 1/4 Italian? I'm posting this to both the Italy list and the Slovenian list. Any comments will be very much appreciated. Thanks -- Ron Serpico in Ohio

Is there anyone who would be willing to translate a 2 page letter for me from Slovenian to English? It's a current letter. I could scan it and you could e-mail the results. I'd be more than happy to pay for the service. Phyllis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Just a quick note to inform you all that our Server is going out of business for personal accounts so I was forced to change. My new e-mail address is: [email protected] You can still get me through the voyager address until the end of the month but would prefer if everyone changed their address books right away. Sorry for the inconvenience. Kind Regards, Georgea Sharkey [email protected]

I am just now getting caught up on reading my emails so perhaps you already have answers--but, "Neska" sounds like the way my grandmother says the Slovenian name of "Neza" It sounds like--"Knee-sh-ca". My grandmother's parents came thru Ellis Island in 1895 and 1905. She said the English version of Neza is Agnes. " Alaja" is harder--I am just taking a stab at it but it is somewhat close to the female form of Louise thesefore since it is male my GUESS would be that in English that it would be Louis. Cherie Gardner Harmon [email protected] searching:KOCJAN, BLATNIK,KOCIVAR,DOBRIHA,YAKISH,MIKOLIC -----Original Message----- From: Georgea Sharkey <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:04 AM Subject: Translations Can anyone possible help me with a few translations? Recently we found two of our relatives on the Ellis Island web site but the first names do not match the Americanised names that we have. The names are: ALAJA KUKMAN (Alaja seems to be a male but is there an English version of this name?) NESKA KUKMAN (Neska seems to be a female but again is there an English version?) Also, there are 3 towns that I can not find on a map: GRANDNIJE, GOR LOCNO and ST. JERENJ all are Slovenian I think. The spellings may be wrong as again, they came from the passenger lists of ships into Ellis Island. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Georgea Sharkey [email protected]

http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/columns/extra/4948.asp Please go to this web page and see what is going on on these two querie boards. I am getting bombarded with e-mails carrying virus. The "McAfee Automatic Scan" attached to the messages posted to these boards is totally useless. And they are getting slick. Now they actually put a subject. It is usually "re:" a message you actually posted to this system. That is how I got it. It was actually from someone I new and had a subject regarding one of my queries. The difference is they put a "_" in front of the person's name sending the message. They one I just deleted was called "Sorry About Yesterday.mpg" and the previous was "Fat Lady Sings". With the "Badnews" virus I was stupid enough to open and infect our computer. This one will send an e-mail to "any" email address in your mailbox. The e-mail address can be on an e-mail, not just in your address book. You will not even know who you have sent these virus to. Yesterday we also got a Norton virus alert on a web page that had the lyrics of music. Luckily we have been keeping our anti virus program current. Good luck. Mary [email protected] http://genealogy2002.tripod.com http://communities.msn.com/Genealogy2000 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Check the birth, death and tombstone indexes at my tripod and msn web pages. I remember the Petrovich name, but not whether it is on my lists yet. You can also post a notice on my guest book. Mary [email protected] http://genealogy2002.tripod.com http://communities.msn.com/Genealogy2000 >From: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: Lapuh, Petrovich, Toparisich >Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 04:01:40 EST > >Hello, I am new to the list. I hope I'm in the right place - geography, >history and I do not go together well... > >Joseph LAPUH, born 1849 in Slavia, C & S (according to 1920 census), and >died >12-27-1924 in Granville, Putnam Co, IL. Married Mary TOPARISICH. She was >born >in 1846 in Slavia C & S (same census), and died 03-18-1924, also in >Granville. > >Joseph immigrated in 1895 (according to 1920 census), Mary immigrated in >1900 >along with their son, John (same census). > >John Michael LAPUH, born 06-21-1889 in Cerkle, Jugoslavia (according to his >SS application), died 03-27-1965 in Granville, Putnam Co, IL. Married Anna >PETROVICH. She was born 09-28-1893 in Illinois, and died 01-1984 in >Granville, Putnam Co, IL. Her parents were born in Slavia-Hungary. > >Anyone have a connection ? >Are there sites out there that can be checked, for births, deaths, >immigration, etc..? > >Cathy > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Hello, I am new to the list. I hope I'm in the right place - geography, history and I do not go together well... Joseph LAPUH, born 1849 in Slavia, C & S (according to 1920 census), and died 12-27-1924 in Granville, Putnam Co, IL. Married Mary TOPARISICH. She was born in 1846 in Slavia C & S (same census), and died 03-18-1924, also in Granville. Joseph immigrated in 1895 (according to 1920 census), Mary immigrated in 1900 along with their son, John (same census). John Michael LAPUH, born 06-21-1889 in Cerkle, Jugoslavia (according to his SS application), died 03-27-1965 in Granville, Putnam Co, IL. Married Anna PETROVICH. She was born 09-28-1893 in Illinois, and died 01-1984 in Granville, Putnam Co, IL. Her parents were born in Slavia-Hungary. Anyone have a connection ? Are there sites out there that can be checked, for births, deaths, immigration, etc..? Cathy

I am forwarding this because the original post seems appropriate to the Slavonia list. If you know of this family, would you please contact Meghan, below, and not me. Hoping this helps, Ashley > >From: "Vesel, Meghan" <[email protected]> >Old-To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]> > >Hi Mary: > >No I am the one daughter of two siblings of Charles Vesel and >Therese Hannan, granddaughter and great-grandaughter of John Frank >Vesel II born in Nova Lipa and John Frank Vesel I of Vinica, >Slovenia, respectively and Matt Vesel of Vinica. > >If you know of any Vesel's that would be interesting to connect >because it is an unusual surname. > >Meghan > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:51 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [KansasCity] Looking > > >Do you have an older sister named Edwina? > >Mary-Vaughan > > >==== KansasCity Mailing List ==== >[email protected] >List Administrator >Maureen Patt, ListMom >[email protected] > >============================== >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 >Source for Family History Online. Go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 > > >==== KansasCity Mailing List ==== >[email protected] >List Administrator >Maureen Patt, ListMom >[email protected] > >============================== >Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 >Source for Family History Online. Go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 --

Thank you John and Tomi for helping me with the translations. I now have places to check. The names also seem to fit our relatives so it looks like I'm on the right track. Thanks again. All the people on this list are so helpful and know everyone appreciates the help. Georgea Sharkey New Zealand

I have been rebuilding my web page on a new server. I am planning on leaving the photos and what text is posted on http://communities.msn.com/Genealogy2000. Genealogy2000 on About.com will be shut down on December 17 because they will no longer be supporting personal web pages. The new web is located at http://genealogy2002.tripod.com. I have added a Mother Of God Birth list and a guestbook. This guestbook can be used as another research tool. I would also appreciate your comments about the new site. Also, any suggestions to improve it. I hope that this site will work out well. But, because it is free you can not depend on it. Thank you for all your patience and I hope that my site will be of value in your search for your ancestors. Mary [email protected] http://genealogy2002.tripod.com http://communities.msn.com/Genealogy2000 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Corrected German Text: English translation: (passport - page 1) Im Namen Seiner Majestät In the Name of His Majesty Franz Joseph I. Franz Joseph I. Kaisers von Oesterreich, Königs von Böhmen u.s.w. und Emperor of Austria, King of Bohemia etc. and Apostolischen Königs von Ungarn. Apostolic King of Hungary. The other is the Slovanian translation I presume (pagae3) Dieser Pass ist gültig: This passport is valid: Drei Jahre Three years What you read as "f" is the socalled old German "long s" as used in letters like Fraktur in all variaties and "Kurrent" Hope it's of good use for you and much luck with your enquiries from Styria/Austria Walter Rosmarin Searching all variaties of Rosmarin/Rohsmarin/Rozmarin/Romarin of Slovanian/SouthStyrian and Belgium origin -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Gesendet: Montag, 26. November 2001 05:02 An: [email protected] Betreff: translation assistance (from passport - page 1) Im Namon Seiner Majeftat Franz Joseph I. Kaifers von Oefterreich, Konigs von Bohmen u. f. w. und Apoftolifchen konigs von Ungarn. V imenu Njegovega Velicanstva Franca Jozefa I. cesarja avstrijskega, kralja ceskega i. t. d. in apostolskega kralja ogerskega. (page 3) Dieser Pass ist giltig: Ta potni list velja: Drei Fahre (or Tahre?) Also, the passports are numbered, is there anyplace where more information might be available on these passports? Any help appreciated. Mary ______________________________

In a message dated 11/25/2001 10:55:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << Kaifers von Oefterreich, Konigs von Bohmen u. f. w. und Apoftolifchen konigs von Ungarn.>> That's Kaiser - basically says, Franz Joseph I, Kaiser [emporer] of Austria, King of Bohemia and Apostolic King of Hungary. This is his full official title at the time I believe. >>>Dieser Pass ist giltig: Drei Fahre (or Tahre?) >> That's Jahre - meaning years. It says the pass is valid for three years.

(from passport - page 1) Im Namon Seiner Majeftat Franz Joseph I. Kaifers von Oefterreich, Konigs von Bohmen u. f. w. und Apoftolifchen konigs von Ungarn. V imenu Njegovega Velicanstva Franca Jozefa I. cesarja avstrijskega, kralja ceskega i. t. d. in apostolskega kralja ogerskega. (page 3) Dieser Pass ist giltig: Ta potni list velja: Drei Fahre (or Tahre?) Also, the passports are numbered, is there anyplace where more information might be available on these passports? Any help appreciated. Mary

Can anyone possible help me with a few translations? Recently we found two of our relatives on the Ellis Island web site but the first names do not match the Americanised names that we have. The names are: ALAJA KUKMAN (Alaja seems to be a male but is there an English version of this name?) NESKA KUKMAN (Neska seems to be a female but again is there an English version?) Also, there are 3 towns that I can not find on a map: GRANDNIJE, GOR LOCNO and ST. JERENJ all are Slovenian I think. The spellings may be wrong as again, they came from the passenger lists of ships into Ellis Island. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Georgea Sharkey [email protected]

Please note that I am in the process of changing my e-mail address. Please contact me at [email protected] Mary [email protected] http://homepages.about.com/mafu51/genealogy2000/ http://communities.msn.com/Genealogy2000 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp