Hello Gary, Much more useful info. Matasovce (Place Of Marriage) is today's Ondavske Matiasovce, just NE of Vranov nad Toplou, Near the Ondava river. Hencovce (1st husbands birth) is just SE of Vranov nad Toplou. Also known as (Aka) Hencfalva, Hencoc. Kladzany is next village to the east. I'd be looking around this area for GM place of birth. These are both in the old Zemplin county. The FHC http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp ?display=localitysearch&columns=*,180,0 has the church records for Matasovce . Why not get them and look up the marriage info there. You will probably get correct birth info from that. Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages, deaths and confirmations for Ondavské Matiasovce, Slovakia, formerly Matyasóc (or Zemplénmátyás) Zemplén, Hungary. Text in Latin and Hungarian. 1744-1897 Is this the religion you expected? Also records for Kladzany are there: Evnaglical church parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Kladzany, Slovakia, formerly Kladzán, Zemplén, Hungary. Text in Latin, Hungarian and Slovak . How does this religion Jibe? He probably went to church in Ondavské Matiasovce if he was RC too. I still have no clue about Rohac/ROHOC. It might be a street name, locality or something around Vranov. It's quite possible that her birth records are in Ondavské Matiasovce. By the way, both villages are adjacent to each other. This is a great break for you. Will keep you busy too! Good Luck, Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 2:25 AM To: 'me' Subject: FW: Villages -----Original Message----- From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:13 PM To: 'gcostel64@attbi.com'; 'SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com' Subject: RE: Villages Hrabocz is hungarian for HRABOVCE which is now Hrabovec nad Laborcom in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. It had also been called Izbugyaraboc from 1907-13. Due north of Humenne. pob: Ralolto - Still can't find, may be another Hungarian variation. Your KLADSAN must be the hungarian KLADZAN, which is now KLADZANY in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. Alt. Klazany circa 1910. SW of Humenne. pob: Rohoc- same comment as above. Both villages were close to the rail line running north-southfrom Medzilborec thru Humenne, southward. I'd do a vicinity search for nearby villages. Use http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm note the village coordinates, then do a radius search at http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm look for names. SS oft times shows both old and new names. Good luck, Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: gcostel64@attbi.com [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:26 PM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Villages Per the Ellis Island website: G-Grandfather Name: Mihaly Ondek Arrival: May 9, 1903 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Hrabocz G-Grandmother Name: Maria Ondik Arrival: June 8, 1904 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Kladsan > Hello Gary, > > Have you researched these names on www.ellisislandrecords.org to see > what village spellings arise? If you have, you may want to post your > names and estimated dates of arrival here so that others who are so > inclinded might take a look at these names. I have seen this activity > be of great help, when more than one set of eyes are used to read some > script or search for the ellusively misspelled name. > > A couple of other points. First, during the early part of the 1900's, > prior to 1918, most EI records make the distinction between Austria > and Hungary when they refer to the Austria-Hungary empire. Austria > was typically the used to refer to Galicia (sometimes Galicia was used > in its stead), a great part of Today's Poland, Austria and sections of > Germany. "Hungary" referred to Hungary proper, Slovakia, Czech > Republic, portions of Romania, Slovenia and other Balkan territories. > > So, my hunch is that Ralolto may be in Galicia, though you mention the > renunciation of Hungary, so the jury is out. Have you used > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm ? It can help you > do a sounds-like search. A search on Ralolto and it's variations > comes up with a name in Romania. > > I just checked my 1910 Gazeteer of Hungary and don't find anything > that comes close to RALOLTO or RALOLTS. The 1910 place names are > valid for the periods of your GGPs births and emigration. As you may > know, villages in the dominion of Hungary had been given Hungarian > (Magyar) names in stead of their traditional names, in the mid 1800's. > After WWI, the villages resumed their traditional names. > > > It is also extremely helpful if you have some clue as to what language > they spoke. This can narrow down the area of search. > > I stand firm on my remarks about misspellings. Just because the > naturalization document is typed and easy to read, does not make is > correct. In fact, naturalization papers are a poor source of village > name, due to the name having been transferred and passed down several > times before it gets to this document. > > I think you need to pursue a better source for the village name. This > is an extremely critical step. Here are better sources for village > names: > > The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of > the following documents, if they emigrated to US. > a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or offspring's birth. > (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy > than bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) > b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or > later). > c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization > documents) > d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the > year 1940 only) > e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 > f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. Held > by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index for > records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of arrival > (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a > database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of NY. > 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. > SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that sound-alike. > > g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone > book. > > For Slovakia, see http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes > Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral village, it is > likely you'll still find some of them nearby. > > The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: > a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the > informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. > b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). > > > Good Luck, > Bill Tarkulich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:23 PM > > To: Bill Tarkulich; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: Villages > > > > > > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is more > > information that was requested. > > > > All of this information is coming directly off of the Naturalization > > papers for my great-grandparents. The papers were typed and are > > very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages long. Again, each page is > > typed and very easy to read. > > > > Great-Grandfather > > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. Another > > page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most likely mean > > Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. He swears to > > renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria and the Apostelic King > > of Hungary. He states that his last foreign residence was Ralolto, > > Austria. I cannot make out what is written on his Ellis Island ship > > manifest to see if it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was > > killed on the railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. > > > > Great-Grandmother > > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in 1880. > > Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her late husband > > was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another page has it spelled > > as Hencance. She states that they were married in 1900 in Matasovce, > > Czechoslovakia. Of course, we all know that Czechoslovakia didn't > > come into existance until 1920 or so. She also states that her last > > foreign residence was Klazan. (Present day > > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island > > ship manifest. > > > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband were > > from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. This fact > > was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. > > > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these villages, and then > > try to obtain church records from these areas to confirm if the > > information on the papers is correct. > > > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA > > county. ROHOD > > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do > > you have > > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in > > > > former > > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) > > Where did > > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? > > Please re-check > > > the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time > > > period in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization > > papers. They > > > > claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > Matasovce > > > > Ralolto > > > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this > > > > village. > > > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to the > > > > other names listed above. I do know that they were from the old > > > > Zemplen County. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > > > records, go to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> > > > > 1237 > > > > > > > > > > ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237