Hrabocz might also be Nizny Hrabovec, due south of Kladzany. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:55 AM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: FW: Villages > > > Hello Gary, > > Much more useful info. > Matasovce (Place Of Marriage) is today's Ondavske Matiasovce, > just NE of Vranov nad Toplou, Near the Ondava river. > > Hencovce (1st husbands birth) is just SE of Vranov nad > Toplou. Also known as (Aka) Hencfalva, Hencoc. Kladzany is > next village to the east. I'd be looking around this area for > GM place of birth. > > These are both in the old Zemplin county. > > The FHC > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainfr > ameset.asp > ?display=localitysearch&columns=*,180,0 has the church > records for Matasovce . Why not get them and look up the > marriage info there. You will probably get correct birth > info from that. > > > > Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages, deaths > and confirmations for Ondavské Matiasovce, Slovakia, formerly > Matyasóc (or > Zemplénmátyás) Zemplén, Hungary. Text in Latin and Hungarian. > 1744-1897 Is this the religion you expected? > > > Also records for Kladzany are there: > Evnaglical church parish registers of baptisms, marriages and > deaths for Kladzany, Slovakia, formerly Kladzán, Zemplén, > Hungary. Text in Latin, Hungarian and Slovak . How does > this religion Jibe? He probably went to church in Ondavské > Matiasovce if he was RC too. > > I still have no clue about Rohac/ROHOC. It might be a > street name, locality or something around Vranov. It's quite > possible that her birth records are in Ondavské Matiasovce. > > By the way, both villages are adjacent to each other. > > > This is a great break for you. Will keep you busy too! > Good Luck, > > Bill Tarkulich > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 2:25 AM > To: 'me' > Subject: FW: Villages > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:13 PM > To: 'gcostel64@attbi.com'; 'SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com' > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > Hrabocz is hungarian for HRABOVCE which is now Hrabovec nad > Laborcom in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. It had also > been called Izbugyaraboc from 1907-13. Due north of Humenne. > pob: Ralolto - Still can't find, may be another Hungarian variation. > > Your KLADSAN must be the hungarian KLADZAN, which is now > KLADZANY in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. Alt. Klazany > circa 1910. SW of Humenne. > pob: Rohoc- same comment as above. > > Both villages were close to the rail line running > north-southfrom Medzilborec thru Humenne, southward. > > I'd do a vicinity search for nearby villages. Use > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm note the > village coordinates, then do a radius search at > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm look for > names. SS oft times shows both old and new names. Good luck, > > Bill Tarkulich > > -----Original Message----- > From: gcostel64@attbi.com [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:26 PM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: Villages > > > Per the Ellis Island website: > > G-Grandfather > Name: Mihaly Ondek > Arrival: May 9, 1903 > Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak > Last Residence: Hrabocz > > G-Grandmother > Name: Maria Ondik > Arrival: June 8, 1904 > Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak > Last Residence: Kladsan > > Hello Gary, > > > > Have you researched these names on www.ellisislandrecords.org to see > > what village spellings arise? If you have, you may want to > post your > > names and estimated dates of arrival here so that others who are so > > inclinded might take a look at these names. I have seen > this activity > > > be of great help, when more than one set of eyes are used > to read some > > > script or search for the ellusively misspelled name. > > > > A couple of other points. First, during the early part of > the 1900's, > > > prior to 1918, most EI records make the distinction between Austria > > and Hungary when they refer to the Austria-Hungary empire. Austria > > was typically the used to refer to Galicia (sometimes > Galicia was used > > > in its stead), a great part of Today's Poland, Austria and > sections of > > > Germany. "Hungary" referred to Hungary proper, Slovakia, Czech > > Republic, portions of Romania, Slovenia and other Balkan > territories. > > > > So, my hunch is that Ralolto may be in Galicia, though you > mention the > > > renunciation of Hungary, so the jury is out. Have you used > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm ? It can > help you > > do a sounds-like search. A search on Ralolto and it's variations > > comes up with a name in Romania. > > > > I just checked my 1910 Gazeteer of Hungary and don't find anything > > that comes close to RALOLTO or RALOLTS. The 1910 place names are > > valid for the periods of your GGPs births and emigration. > As you may > > know, villages in the dominion of Hungary had been given Hungarian > > (Magyar) names in stead of their traditional names, in the > mid 1800's. > > > After WWI, the villages resumed their traditional names. > > > > > > It is also extremely helpful if you have some clue as to > what language > > > they spoke. This can narrow down the area of search. > > > > I stand firm on my remarks about misspellings. Just because the > > naturalization document is typed and easy to read, does not make is > > correct. In fact, naturalization papers are a poor source > of village > > name, due to the name having been transferred and passed > down several > > times before it gets to this document. > > > > I think you need to pursue a better source for the village > name. This > > > is an extremely critical step. Here are better sources for village > > names: > > > > The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of > > the following documents, if they emigrated to US. > > a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or > offspring's birth. > > > (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy > > than bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) > > b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or > > later). > > c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization > > documents) > > d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the > > year 1940 only) > > e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 > > f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. > Held > > by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index > for > > records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of > arrival > > (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a > > database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of > NY. > > 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. > > SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that > sound-alike. > > > > g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone > > book. > > > > For Slovakia, see > http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes > > Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral > village, it is > > likely you'll still find some of them nearby. > > > > The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: > > a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the > > informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. > > b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). > > > > > > Good Luck, > > Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:23 PM > > > To: Bill Tarkulich; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: Villages > > > > > > > > > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is more > > > information that was requested. > > > > > > All of this information is coming directly off of the > Naturalization > > > > papers for my great-grandparents. The papers were typed and are > > > very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages long. Again, > each page is > > > > typed and very easy to read. > > > > > > Great-Grandfather > > > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > > > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. Another > > > page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most likely mean > > > Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. He swears to > > > renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria and the > Apostelic King > > > > of Hungary. He states that his last foreign residence was Ralolto, > > > Austria. I cannot make out what is written on his Ellis > Island ship > > > > manifest to see if it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was > > > killed on the railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. > > > > > > Great-Grandmother > > > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > > > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in 1880. > > > Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her late husband > > > was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another page has > it spelled > > > as Hencance. She states that they were married in 1900 in > Matasovce, > > > > Czechoslovakia. Of course, we all know that Czechoslovakia didn't > > > come into existance until 1920 or so. She also states > that her last > > > foreign residence was Klazan. (Present day > > > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island > > > ship manifest. > > > > > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband were > > > from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. This fact > > > was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. > > > > > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these > villages, and then > > > > try to obtain church records from these areas to confirm if the > > > information on the papers is correct. > > > > > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > > > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; > <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > > > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA > > > county. ROHOD > > > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do > > > you have > > > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in > > > > > former > > > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) > > > Where did > > > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? > > > Please re-check > > > > the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to > note the time > > > > period in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization > > > papers. They > > > > > claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > > Matasovce > > > > > Ralolto > > > > > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this > > > > > village. > > > > > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village > close to the > > > > > other names listed above. I do know that they were > from the old > > > > > > Zemplen County. > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion > online genealogy > > > > > > records, go to: > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> > > > > > 1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go > to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 >