More questions. So who is this fella? Jozef Zinvostks Haborka 1902 33 81% And about your GM, was she married in this country? Was Carolina > Zsivnostka her maiden name? What name did she emmigrate under? Is Zsivnostka an Americanized version of something else? And what about your GP? What was his name? When did he immigrate? Year of birth? Every little bit helps... Looks to me given the name shown above that your spelling may be way off. Bill Tarkulich > -----Original Message----- > From: Penny Vanderhyden [mailto:penvan@earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:17 PM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: INS records > > > Ok Bill, here goes. My grandmothers name was Carolina > Zsivnostka. She was born in Habovka, Slovakia and moved to > Tsizaoff, Hungary after 1901 so, I assume she emigrated from > Hungary (I know Habovka was also part of Hungary then too). I > found her in the Habovka church records. She was born > February 04, 1887 according to them. As far as I know her > destination was Joliet, Illinois. My aunt said she thought my > grandmother worked in Chicago for a while when she first came > to the US. I haven't been able to prove that yet either. She > spoke Slovak. She should have been 16 or 17 when she > emigrated since her year of emigration is listed as 1903 and > 1904 in the 3 census's (1910, 1920, 1930). I've used the > alternate spellings of the last name, I've even used Stephen > P. Morse back door to the Ellis island website. I even tried > putting her first name in as her last. I also rented the > sound ex's' for the ships using the z sound ex's and the g > since the zsi is pronounced as a soft g or j according to my > aunts. I feel like I've check everything I can think of. I > would really like to have a copy of the ship manifest that > has my grandmother listed. I probably won't get any more > information then I have on her but I just would like to have > it to add to my family history on her family. > > Thanks again for any help, > Penny > > > Give us her given name, surname, estimated place of birth, her > > destination and ethnicity(or what language she spoke) and > her age at > > time of immigration. Some of us can take a peek at the > manifests and > > might come up with something. Bill Tarkulich > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 >

Ok Bill, here goes. My grandmothers name was Carolina Zsivnostka. She was born in Habovka, Slovakia and moved to Tsizaoff, Hungary after 1901 so, I assume she emigrated from Hungary (I know Habovka was also part of Hungary then too). I found her in the Habovka church records. She was born February 04, 1887 according to them. As far as I know her destination was Joliet, Illinois. My aunt said she thought my grandmother worked in Chicago for a while when she first came to the US. I haven't been able to prove that yet either. She spoke Slovak. She should have been 16 or 17 when she emigrated since her year of emigration is listed as 1903 and 1904 in the 3 census's (1910, 1920, 1930). I've used the alternate spellings of the last name, I've even used Stephen P. Morse back door to the Ellis island website. I even tried putting her first name in as her last. I also rented the sound ex's' for the ships using the z sound ex's and the g since the zsi is pronounced as a soft g or j according to my aunts. I feel like I've check everything I can think of. I would really like to have a copy of the ship manifest that has my grandmother listed. I probably won't get any more information then I have on her but I just would like to have it to add to my family history on her family. Thanks again for any help, Penny > Give us her given name, surname, estimated place of birth, her > destination and ethnicity(or what language she spoke) and her age at > time of immigration. Some of us can take a peek at the manifests and > might come up with something. > Bill Tarkulich

Give us her given name, surname, estimated place of birth, her destination and ethnicity(or what language she spoke) and her age at time of immigration. Some of us can take a peek at the manifests and might come up with something. Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Penny Vanderhyden [mailto:penvan@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:26 PM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: INS records Does anyone know what years the records started with the INS. My grandparents emigrated in 1903 and 1904. Did emigrants have to file something with the INS when they arrived or did they wait until the got to their final destination? I found my Grandfathers naturalization papers in the county he lived but I been told my grandmother became a citizen by being married to my grandfather in 1906. I've had no luck in finding her on the Ellis Island website. Her surname was Zsivnostka and is spelled different in everything I have found for her. I've spent hours at the Ellis island website using every imaginable spelling. My aunt swears my grandmother came through New York because she remembers the story grandma would tell about how whoever was supposed to meet her there wasn't there when she arrived and she got lost. Finally a police officer help her by taking her to a group of emigrant women who were from Slovakia. Thanks for any help, Penny ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

This http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/articles/oview.htm tells you all about when the INS started, including when people had to register upon arrival and when they instituted the policy. "Under the 1891 law, the Federal Government assumed the task of inspecting, admitting, rejecting, and processing all immigrants seeking admission to the United States." Prior to that time, it was state and local laws that applied and they varied. In 1891, the INS began to mandate that the shipping companies complete manifests and provide them to the INS at arrival. The INS then used these lists to process the arrivals. Read this http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/summer_1998_women_and_natu ralization_1.html for reasons why women were not enumerated on manifests. When I run into problems locating passengers, First, I look for a phonetic equivalent, then I look for a transcription error (the old-style "s" looks like an "f", old style "T" looks like a "S" for example)Here is my list of letters that look alike: Lower case: a=c=e=i=l=o=r=s=t=x, i=l=e=t, f=s, g=j=p=q=y=z, h=k, m=n=u=v=w=ii=iu=ui=ni=in=r When this fails, I find a relative on the census, look for fellow passengers on the same manifest from the same village, note their surnames. Then I search for others of these surnames. Quite frequently they travelled with others and didn't travel alone, especially during these time periods. Have you also taken advantage of ellisislandrecords.org 's "No Exact Matches...1) search on alternate spellings of the last name;" or after a search, click on EDIT Name and Gender: under "passenger search profile (bluegreen bar on left hand side"? These give you more variations you haven't thought of. Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Penny Vanderhyden [mailto:penvan@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:26 PM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: INS records Does anyone know what years the records started with the INS. My grandparents emigrated in 1903 and 1904. Did emigrants have to file something with the INS when they arrived or did they wait until the got to their final destination? I found my Grandfathers naturalization papers in the county he lived but I been told my grandmother became a citizen by being married to my grandfather in 1906. I've had no luck in finding her on the Ellis Island website. Her surname was Zsivnostka and is spelled different in everything I have found for her. I've spent hours at the Ellis island website using every imaginable spelling. My aunt swears my grandmother came through New York because she remembers the story grandma would tell about how whoever was supposed to meet her there wasn't there when she arrived and she got lost. Finally a police officer help her by taking her to a group of emigrant women who were from Slovakia. Thanks for any help, Penny ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

That applies to any and all bureaucracies. Even a Rochester, NY cemetery couldn't "find" the unmarked plots of three infant graves from the 1920's. With enough persistence two were found, once I was able to speculate on a date range (based on other siblings births). The surnames had been misspelled when they were recorded. Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Marlene Norton [mailto:marlene_norton@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:16 PM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor > There are probably more records squirrelled away in govt archives for > you. Sometimes even the archives or INS will respond with "no records > found," which turns out to be a mis-truth. What I mean it that the > clerk didn't try hard enough - I have had to persist more than once with > the INS on the same name before my GP's file was found. Don't give up > on a source simply because you may get one "rejection letter." Amen to that statement!!! I have been trying for several years to find a death certificate regarding a child who died on Ellis Island. Several tries yielded no reply or a reply that it wasn't there. Gave it another try earlier this year and received a copy. Same information that was sent in years past. Now, is there a place an immigrant might have registered if he never became a citizen? Or a way to find out if he did become a citizen? He came over around 1906 and died in 1965. Ancestry touts WWI registration records but so far they have only posted a few counties in Pa and NC. Would LDS have these records? I made my first trip to the closest center which is about 50 miles away and the people who volunteer there seem to be in awe of someone researching somewhere other than England. Marlene Norton __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Sorry--- in a more readable form Here is my info on USA Alien Registration info most valuable to genealogical researchers. Bill Tarkulich In 1940, the US Government, getting jittery about a war breaking out, required all aliens to register. It contains a boatload of information. Even if your immigrant never became a naturalized citizen, as long as he/she resided in the US in 1940, he/she was required to complete this document. The document contains when/where/how they immigrated, where they immigrated from (*village name* , most important), date of birth and port of departure in most cases. You may petition the INS for a copy of this document. This is a treasure trove of information. See http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/ImmRecs/AREG.htm . Q: How do I go about ordering one? A: Fill out this form: http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/g-639.htm It's a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. Then determine where to send it. Make sure you send documentation that attests how you are related and proof of death (death certificate, obituary) if the death occurred less than 100 years ago. This will speed things up immensely. Read the info at http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/foia/index.htm I started by sending it to the National Archives in D.C./Maryland. Though no info was found there, they did know which office was correct (my case, INS, Buffalo, NY) and forwarded it. It's been my experience that you may have to petition multiple offices before you succeed, as rules for immigration and naturalization archives changed quite a bit in the early days. DO expect it to take several months, and DO NOT be surprised if you are shuttled around from office to office. The Alien Registration Act passed by Congress on 29th June, 1940, made it illegal for anyone in the United States to advocate, abet, or teach the desirability of overthrowing the government. The law also required all alien residents in the United States over 14 years of age to file a comprehensive statement of their personal and occupational status and a record of their political beliefs. Within four months a total of 4,741,971 aliens had been registered. The main objective of the act was to undermine the American Communist Party and other left-wing political groups in the United States. Source http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk Designed as a national defense measure, the Act required all aliens (non-U.S. citizens) within the United States to register with the U.S. Government. They registered at Post Offices, and their registration forms were forwarded to the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) for processing. After processing, a receipt card (Form AR-3) was mailed to each registrant as proof of their compliance with the law. Source: http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/articles/Green.htm Bill Tarkulich

Here is my info on INS INFORMATION info most valuable to genealogical researchers. Bill Tarkulich Some of the information below talks specifically about the Alien Registration Form. However, the request for file applies to all information in the immigrant's file. Many immigrants who arrived in America has an INS (U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service) file, regardless of immigration status: naturalized, resident alien, illegal alien and so on. Your initial status was that of an alien, and if you followed all the steps to citizenship (not all folk did), you ended up as a naturalized citizen. Same process is followed with immigrants who arrive in the U.S. today. Contained in these files you may find any of the of the following information: a. Declaration of Intent (First Papers) b. Second Papers c. Naturalization Papers (Third or Final Papers) d. 1940 Alien Registration Report e. Annual Alien reports f. Other documents, specific to an immigrant's case. The most valuable documents for a genealogical researcher are the Declaration of Intent or the Alien Registration Report. The following was a question and answer thread that I authored at www.delphi.com/iarelative forum. The answers are my responses. Q: I am curious about your grandmother who would have made the Alien Registration Report yearly. My grandmother also never became a US citizen...and I remember my mother saying something about her at one time having to report yearly. Do you know if there is a record of that report on file somewhere? And if there is, can a relative have access to it? Any thoughts would be appreciated A: Yes, they were supposed to file yearly, but it does not look like the INS hung onto every record. What I did find was the 1940 registration that every alien was required to fill out when the US was getting jittery about the onset of World War II (see historical context at INS, http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/immrecs/AREG.htm ). I also found one card from 1950. That was the entire file. WHERE TO SEND YOUR REQUEST I started with the U.S. National Archives. They said they could not find anything in their records in Maryland. They then forwarded my request to the INS Buffalo NY branch. It was suggested that this is where my GP's records would might (immigrated circa 1903). About 4 weeks later I received the entire file. I have surmised that if there were no naturalization records on file with the INS, they remained Resident Aliens their entire lives. You make these requests thru the freedom of information act. Some info on the process can be found at http://www.nara.gov/genealogy/genindex.html#cats1. You can also look in the reference section of most genealogy sites for details on where to write and what info to include. I got a response in about 8 months. Address To request INS files, complete form G-639 (or a letter) and address it as follows: For arrivals from September 26, 1906 to Present, write to: Immigration & Naturalization Service FOIA/PA Officer, Chester Arthur Building 425 I Street N.W., ULLICO Building 2nd Floor Washington D.C. 20536 Phone:202-514-3278 Fax: 202-514-3902 800-870-3676 For records prior to 1906, write to the Regional National Archive for the area where the event occurred. You may have to write to the county clerk's office where the event occurred. Form G-639 is actually optional. You may write a letter instead, referencing the "Freedom of Information Act", and providing Name, Date of birth, and place of birth, date of Naturalization if you know it. . FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT More than you ever care to know about the FOIA is here http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/referenceguidemay99.htm#how http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/04_3.html Form G-639 is here: http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/att_d.htm Q: I am curious what type of information were you able to access on the Alien Registration Form. Did it give genealogical information such as birthplace? Parents? Marriage information...dates, spouses, etc.? Children? A: Go to the link http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/immrecs/AREG.htm and view the Alien Registration Card sample. It had all this info - date of birth, citizenship, when they arrived, port, ship name, number of children, employer, etc. Mine was almost completely filled in, and it was typed - a big plus in geneaological research. Of all the documents, the INS file was the most significant find in my case, though I got it last. The INS page tells you what info you need to provide in your request. Q: did you use the INS form G-639 to make your request, or did you just write a letter identifying your grandmother by name...maiden and married, date of birth and place of birth (if known) with a request of the A-Files? Also, did you pay in advance for the service or did you just instruct the INS to bill you later? A: Yes, I did use INS form G-639 (available here http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/att_d.htm ). I made sure that it was clear what her married name and maiden names were. I didn't know the immigration date for certain, so I gave a range. I did know the date of birth, but was uncertain of the year - again, a range. The date of birth can be critical, if the INS clerk locates multiple immigrants with the same name. If uncertain of ethnicity and nationality, take an informed guess, but note that it's a guess. I included the names of a couple of ships we believed the immigrants MAY have arrived on, but put question marks after them. Every place on the form I didn't know, I put a question mark. If there was a brother, child or parent's name that might be relevant, I noted it. I requested a Declaration of Intent (DOI) document, knowing this is the richest in info. In the end, there was no naturalization process (thus no DOI), but the office used good judgment and without me asking, sent the entire file, which included the Alien Registration Report, which was equally informative. Might be good to just ask for everything on file. The key is to include any info that might be HELPFUL, rather than filling out the form verbatim. I asked for copies. I made it clear it was for genealogy purposes and that this was my grandmother, so it really mattered to me (not to be used as part of some legal proceedings, etc.). I left a phone number and I said THANK YOU. My thought was if you recognize these clerks are doing this manually, and you make their job easier or more pleasant, they are more apt to persist in finding the record. I read enough to know that immigration records of that period could have been kept by local, state or federal offices, courts, INS or otherwise. At the same time I wrote to the town clerk where they lived to see if they could find any records - nothing. I called the federal court looking to see if they retained immigration records. Some do. This one did, but had nothing. Turn over more stones. You don't have to pay anything from the INS unless it's over some very reasonable threshold. My 4 pages came thru at no charge. If there's a charge, they'll notify you and expect payment (before or after delivery of the file, unknown). You might have a difficult situation if an immigrant died before 1940, which was the first time info was mandated for all immigrants. However, you seem to suggest that first papers were filed, so you might have that DOI on file. It would be most helpful. You can see one at http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/Max/Declar.html Remember, the G-639 is a general form, applicable to all government agencies. It is generic enough to let the user request pretty much any information the government may hold. Therefore, you need to be specific enough in your request and determine for yourself which agency is likely to hold the information you seek. Q: Did you have to prove who you are with documentation, your birth certificate, and your parents to grandparents before obtaining the Alien Registration Information from the INS? A: I think technically you are supposed to by supplying birth certificates for each person back to the one you are researching OR proof the subject is deceased. That said, I only sent in the immigrant's death certificate (copy) and I got everything. I think if you explain your relationship you'd be all set. Probably depends on who works your request and how diplomatically you present yourself. I also understand that records that are beyond the privacy threshold (100 years or thereabouts) are open to all requestors and thus require none of the above justification. Bill Tarkulich

Here is my info on Social Security info most valuable to genealogical researchers. Bill Tarkulich SOCIAL SECURITY If your immigrant was legally employed in the U.S. in 1937 or later, don't forget to petition for a copy of the Social Security Application. It contains their parent's names and place of origin/citizenship. SS began in 1936 and all employees were required by law to obtain one by 1937. Social Security Application If they were working in 1937, and you think they had a Soc. Sec. number (you don't need to know it), you can petition the SSA for their SSA application. It contains their parent's names and place of origin/citizenship. Here http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/ss5.html is what the card looked like. Social Security began in 1936 and all employees were required by law to obtain one by 1937. Folks older than 65 were not required to fill one out. A great explanation of the process can be found here http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/ssncards.html . You will need much patience, as the response may take SEVERAL MONTHS! The Social Security Act became law on January 1, 1937. Initial applications began in November, 1936 to December 5, 1936. Here is a form letter (source: Social Security Administration Office of Earnings Operations FOIA Workgroup 300 N. Greene Street P.O. Box 33022 Baltimore, Maryland 21290 Re: Freedom of Information Act Request Dear Freedom of Information Officer, I am writing this request under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. Section 552. I hereby request a copy of the SS-5, Application for Social Security Card, or a corresponding NUMIDENT printout (see below) for the following individual: Lastname, first name SS#aaa-bb-cccc Birth: xx-yyy-zzzz Death: yyy-zzzz This individual is deceased, having been listed in the Social Security Administration's Death Master File. I understand the fee for this service is $27 for copy of original SS-5 application OR $16 for copy of an abbreviated NUMIDENT printout when the Social Security Number is provided. I am requesting a (circle one: SS-5 copy OR Numident printout) Included is a check for $______ made out to the Social Security Administration to cover any administrative costs required by this request. Please respond to my request upon receipt of this initial correspondence. Thank you for your attention and assistance. Sincerely, Yourname Address: Daytime Phone Number: Fees: (effective 7/1/2001) $27 Actual Photocopy of application with Social Security Number $29 Actual Photocopy of application without Social Security Number $16 Computer Extract (NUMIDENT) with SSN $18 Computer Extract (NUMIDENT) without SSN The NUMIDENT record is a computer extract of information from the original application for a Social Security card. Many records of older individuals, primarily those born in 1910 or earlier, are abbreviated records that do not contain the names of the individual's parents and may not contain the place of birth General References: http://www.ssa.gov/ Social Security Administration http://www.ssa.gov/foia/foia_guide.htm Freedom of Information Act for Social Security Administration Social Security Death Index (SSDI) Because the SSDI is so readily available on the Web (i.e., www.ancestry.com avails it for free at http://www.ancestry.com/search/rectype/inddbs/3693.htm ), many researchers rely too heavily upon it. The fact is that the SSDI IS AN INCOMPLETE INDEX. You can NEVER assume that if a match was not found that the individual did not have a Social Security Number. MANY deceased people who had SS numbers are NOT listed. http://www.ssa.gov/foia/foia_guide.htm Bill Tarkulich

There are a few ways to find out if s/he became a citizen. First is to check their INS file for Naturalization documents. This is the most authoritative. I'll post info on how to apply to the INS in a separate message. LDS does not have US records of individuals, per se. Privacy rules generally prohibit public disclosure of such info for 100 years. That said, you'll find census information, but that is subject to the 70-year rule, as evidenced by census. The knowledge of the FHC volunteers (God Bless them) varies all over the map. Then again, once you're in the USA, the records of events in the USA are organized under the USA category, not Slovakia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia. Of course you know that. Frankly, I don't find much genealogical value in naturalization records. There was never any requirement that you become a naturalized citizen. Naturalization records contain very little useful information about the old country or family back home. In fact, my GPs spent their entire lives here in the USA as "resident aliens", beginning in 1904. You will find that if your relative was an alien in 1940, they had to register and fill out a form of great value to the researcher, the Alien Registration Form (AR-2) http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/ImmRecs/AREG.htm which contains very, very important goodies like parents name, place of origin, ships name, etc. There was also an annual registration that had to be filled in and sent to the INS (see above reference), although the INS discarded all but the most recent. The INS file is EXTREMELY VALUABLE. There are things called first and second papers http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/natzrec/natrec.htm which contain good info for the researcher. These are the intent to naturalize process documents. Even if they started,but never became citizens, they had a good record. A good start for someone located quite a distance from a FHC is the Family History Library Catalog found at http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp Stay tuned, look for my followup message on INS and FOIA stuff. Bill Tarkulich

There are a few ways to find out if s/he became a citizen. First is to check their INS file for Naturalization documents. This is the most authoritative. I'll post info on how to apply to the INS in a separate message. LDS does not have US records of individuals, per se. Privacy rules generally prohibit public disclosure of such info for 100 years. That said, you'll find census information, but that is subject to the 70-year rule, as evidenced by census. The knowledge of the FHC volunteers (God Bless them) varies all over the map. Then again, once you're in the USA, the records of events in the USA are organized under the USA category, not Slovakia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia. Of course you know that. Frankly, I don't find much genealogical value in naturalization records. There was never any requirement that you become a naturalized citizen. Naturalization records contain very little useful information about the old country or family back home. In fact, my GPs spent their entire lives here in the USA as "resident aliens", beginning in 1904. You will find that if your relative was an alien in 1940, they had to register and fill out a form of great value to the researcher, the Alien Registration Form (AR-2) http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/ImmRecs/AREG.htm which contains very, very important goodies like parents name, place of origin, ships name, etc. There was also an annual registration that had to be filled in and sent to the INS (see above reference), although the INS discarded all but the most recent. The INS file is EXTREMELY VALUABLE. There are things called first and second papers http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/natzrec/natrec.htm which contain good info for the researcher. These are the intent to naturalize process documents. Even if they started,but never became citizens, they had a good record. A good start for someone located quite a distance from a FHC is the Family History Library Catalog found at http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp Stay tuned, look for my followup message on INS and FOIA stuff. Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Marlene Norton [mailto:marlene_norton@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:16 PM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor > There are probably more records squirrelled away in govt archives for > you. Sometimes even the archives or INS will respond with "no records > found," which turns out to be a mis-truth. What I mean it that the > clerk didn't try hard enough - I have had to persist more than once with > the INS on the same name before my GP's file was found. Don't give up > on a source simply because you may get one "rejection letter." Amen to that statement!!! I have been trying for several years to find a death certificate regarding a child who died on Ellis Island. Several tries yielded no reply or a reply that it wasn't there. Gave it another try earlier this year and received a copy. Same information that was sent in years past. Now, is there a place an immigrant might have registered if he never became a citizen? Or a way to find out if he did become a citizen? He came over around 1906 and died in 1965. Ancestry touts WWI registration records but so far they have only posted a few counties in Pa and NC. Would LDS have these records? I made my first trip to the closest center which is about 50 miles away and the people who volunteer there seem to be in awe of someone researching somewhere other than England. Marlene Norton __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

"...is there a way to find out if they became a citizen?' One fast way, without even having to get up, is to look at the EI ship manifest, if the person you are wondering about is there. If there is a number written across the name, or somewhere near it, they applied for citizenship. I believe it was after 1903 (?) the courts had to verify what ship and the date they came over. The number correlates to the district court they were applying at. Just a little trick, Joyce

Does anyone know what years the records started with the INS. My grandparents emigrated in 1903 and 1904. Did emigrants have to file something with the INS when they arrived or did they wait until the got to their final destination? I found my Grandfathers naturalization papers in the county he lived but I been told my grandmother became a citizen by being married to my grandfather in 1906. I've had no luck in finding her on the Ellis Island website. Her surname was Zsivnostka and is spelled different in everything I have found for her. I've spent hours at the Ellis island website using every imaginable spelling. My aunt swears my grandmother came through New York because she remembers the story grandma would tell about how whoever was supposed to meet her there wasn't there when she arrived and she got lost. Finally a police officer help her by taking her to a group of emigrant women who were from Slovakia. Thanks for any help, Penny

Hi Vera, Are you talking about me??? ;) maybe??? :o) That's OK... I have hundreds of pages of disorganized tips, pointers, web sites, documents, books, history and resources. One document I have collected them in is over 60 pages alone. I've just begun to write about them all. The other problem with web sites is that they reformulate themselves every year or so, making for a lot of "broken links." The other problem with discussion groups is that people come and go. If you've been with any list for a while, you find that the same questions are repeated and answered over and over again. So if you weren't here when the INS discussion occurred, you missed it, unless your discussion group has an archive. I'm attempting to alleviate that by building a web site, but at my rate, it will take years, since for most of us, this is a hobby. Let me know if you want more information on contacting the INS, guides for the manifests, the Family History Center and so on. I usually just "cut and paste" advice I've previously provided. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Vera Holman Cox Mail [mailto:loverangel@lvcm.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 1:20 PM To: bill@iabsi.com; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> To: <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:55 AM Subject: RE: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor Dear Bill, I wish that when a lister brags about a good web-site found that has helped them in many ways, that they would take the time want to share and to post the urls for all these goodies. Thanks, Vera > Hi Diana, > Glad the information moves you forward. > > Many, many people who are young at research make similar comments > about wishing they had paid attention in History Class. Then again, > it's our families that make it real for us. For example, if you asked > me to study about Botswana (no offense to those citizens) I'd > probably still yawn as loud as I did in 8th grade. > > There are probably more records squirrelled away in govt archives for > you. Sometimes even the archives or INS will respond with "no records > found," which turns out to be a mis-truth. What I mean it that the > clerk didn't try hard enough - I have had to persist more than once > with the INS on the same name before my GP's file was found. Don't > give up on a source simply because you may get one "rejection letter." > > You indicate you have not located immigration records - have you > submitted a Freedom of Info request to the INS? Oft times this yields > better records than county courthouses (for people of our heritage > anyways.) Census - For all we know they were not counted or > momentarily lived elsewhere. > > You comment:.... I found some there with the variation spelling, but > the dates didnt match when they reported entering the country" > This is no surprise to anyone who has studied genealogy for a while. > You can count on finding erroneous dates all over the place. There is a > column on most post-1904 manifests which indicates whether they had been > in the US prior. It might be a clue. I have immigrants who came back > and forth a few times (we never knew this) and each time, their name was > spelled differently on the manifest. Keep an open mind and keep up the > good work! > > Bill Tarkulich > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Diana, Glad the information moves you forward. Many, many people who are young at research make similar comments about wishing they had paid attention in History Class. Then again, it's our families that make it real for us. For example, if you asked me to study about Botswana (no offense to those citizens) I'd probably still yawn as loud as I did in 8th grade. There are probably more records squirrelled away in govt archives for you. Sometimes even the archives or INS will respond with "no records found," which turns out to be a mis-truth. What I mean it that the clerk didn't try hard enough - I have had to persist more than once with the INS on the same name before my GP's file was found. Don't give up on a source simply because you may get one "rejection letter." You indicate you have not located immigration records - have you submitted a Freedom of Info request to the INS? Oft times this yields better records than county courthouses (for people of our heritage anyways.) Census - For all we know they were not counted or momentarily lived elsewhere. You comment:.... I found some there with the variation spelling, but the dates didnt match when they reported entering the country" This is no surprise to anyone who has studied genealogy for a while. You can count on finding erroneous dates all over the place. There is a column on most post-1904 manifests which indicates whether they had been in the US prior. It might be a clue. I have immigrants who came back and forth a few times (we never knew this) and each time, their name was spelled differently on the manifest. Keep an open mind and keep up the good work! Bill Tarkulich

> There are probably more records squirrelled away in govt archives for > you. Sometimes even the archives or INS will respond with "no records > found," which turns out to be a mis-truth. What I mean it that the > clerk didn't try hard enough - I have had to persist more than once with > the INS on the same name before my GP's file was found. Don't give up > on a source simply because you may get one "rejection letter." Amen to that statement!!! I have been trying for several years to find a death certificate regarding a child who died on Ellis Island. Several tries yielded no reply or a reply that it wasn't there. Gave it another try earlier this year and received a copy. Same information that was sent in years past. Now, is there a place an immigrant might have registered if he never became a citizen? Or a way to find out if he did become a citizen? He came over around 1906 and died in 1965. Ancestry touts WWI registration records but so far they have only posted a few counties in Pa and NC. Would LDS have these records? I made my first trip to the closest center which is about 50 miles away and the people who volunteer there seem to be in awe of someone researching somewhere other than England. Marlene Norton __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> To: <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:55 AM Subject: RE: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor Dear Bill, I wish that when a lister brags about a good web-site found that has helped them in many ways, that they would take the time want to share and to post the urls for all these goodies. Thanks, Vera > Hi Diana, > Glad the information moves you forward. > > Many, many people who are young at research make similar comments about > wishing they had paid attention in History Class. Then again, it's our > families that make it real for us. For example, if you asked me to > study about Botswana (no offense to those citizens) I'd probably still > yawn as loud as I did in 8th grade. > > There are probably more records squirrelled away in govt archives for > you. Sometimes even the archives or INS will respond with "no records > found," which turns out to be a mis-truth. What I mean it that the > clerk didn't try hard enough - I have had to persist more than once with > the INS on the same name before my GP's file was found. Don't give up > on a source simply because you may get one "rejection letter." > > You indicate you have not located immigration records - have you > submitted a Freedom of Info request to the INS? Oft times this yields > better records than county courthouses (for people of our heritage > anyways.) Census - For all we know they were not counted or momentarily > lived elsewhere. > > You comment:.... I found some there with the variation > spelling, but the dates didnt match when they reported entering the > country" > This is no surprise to anyone who has studied genealogy for a while. > You can count on finding erroneous dates all over the place. There is a > column on most post-1904 manifests which indicates whether they had been > in the US prior. It might be a clue. I have immigrants who came back > and forth a few times (we never knew this) and each time, their name was > spelled differently on the manifest. Keep an open mind and keep up the > good work! > > Bill Tarkulich > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

--- "Dr. Joe Q" <drq@intercomm.com> wrote: > Majt�n is most likely the Slovak spelling pronounced "my tawn". > > The Czech - Slovak census question has more to do with the way the census > taker > (enumerator) wrote things. To all those that have given me help, WOW thanks bunches. You have answered a few questions, and I see what direction to proceed in. All the tid bits make sense and are very helpful. It is funny in a way I have learned more history, geography since beginning the research of my family roots than what I ever learned in high school. :-)) Vivian yes that is the way I was told it was pronoucned with the LONG I sound. as Dr Q also said "MY TAWN" but of course here in the states they spelled it as MAYTON, the census taker spelled it MATON/MATTON.. I was told it was changed somewhat due to Americanized spelling at the time. I did notice in the 1920 census they listed place of birth as Austria, and in 1930 it was listed as Czechslovakia, They are located in central PA and according to the Immigrantion date listed the husband was dated 1910 alien, and the wife was 1911 alien,i n both the 1920 and 1930 census. I have not been able to locate them there in 1910, which is why I asked could they have been in the country prior to the date they gave in the census info. I have not been able to locate any immigration papers in the family, but will have to proceed with locating the papers through the state. Bill the ellis island link was helpful, I found some there with the variation spelling, but the dates didnt match when they reported entering the country. I know much more work is needed and I appreciate the help. ===== Tweety aka Diana, Proud Wife of a FIREFIGHTER, Be thankful for the past, have courage for the present, and faith for the future! __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

----- Original Message ----- From: "john bartos" <j.e.bartos@worldnet.att.net> To: "Diana K" <search4roots@yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor > Hello Diana: > > It has been quite a few years since I lived there, but by birthplace is Blue > Island (Cook County), Illinois. It is a south suburb of Chicago. There is > a sizable Slovak population there. > > I remember there were quite a few persons with the surname of Majtan living > there is the 1950s and 1960s. I don't know about today's numbers. These > Majtan's, to my recollection, were from the north central part of Slovakia > from the county (okres) of Orava. > > I don't recall any given names of them other than a Jan (John) Majtan. I > hope this may be of assistance to you. > > Cordially, > > John E. Bartos > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diana K" <search4roots@yahoo.com> > To: <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 5:33 PM > Subject: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor > > > > I have just started researching ancestors that were Slovak. > > Now I would most enjoy some help either here or via websites. > > QUESTIONS: > > > > If it list place born in the Census as Czech and then list them as Slovak > > does this mean they were born in Czech? > > Is Slovak a culture or country or a place? > > > > The name I am researching is MAIJTON/ MAJTAN/ MAJTON/ translate to > > Mayton/Maton/Matton I am told it was prononuced Mi-TON. but any help is > > appreciated. > > > > I am new to immigrant ancestors. IF in the census it states year of > > immigration and the year is say 1910, alien DOES this mean this is when > the > > arrived in the USA? > > > > How would I go about finding where they came in at? > > What area of THEIR country they are from? > > > > No one is living that can help me with this information, no one every > inquired > > much into it. > > > > THANK you so very much for your patience and help, and any info you can > > provide. > > I have tons more questions, but have to start someplace. > > > > ===== > > Tweety aka Diana, > > > > Proud Wife of a FIREFIGHTER, > > Be thankful for the past, > > have courage for the present, > > and faith for the future! > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes > > http://finance.yahoo.com > > > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Hello Diana, I'll answer what I can, below, others can add a lot too. Ask questions, as you need guidance. Every ancestor's path is different and tools you may need will vary. > > If it list place born in the Census as Czech and then list > them as Slovak does this mean they were born in Czech? Is > Slovak a culture or country or a place? We must make a distinction between Ethnicity and Nationality: If an ethnic Greek from Greece goes to live in France and becomes a citizen there, he is still ethnically Greek, but a citizen of France. The answer to your question depends on the year of the census. Before 1918, most immigrants listed their nationality as Hungarian. After 1918, the Country of Czechoslovakia was formed from portions of Austria, Hungary. Its possible the census taker was writing "Czech" as shorthand for Czechoslovakia, the nationality. It contained a diverse number of ethnicities, including Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Germans and others. > > I am new to immigrant ancestors. IF in the census it states year of > immigration and the year is say 1910, alien DOES this mean > this is when the > arrived in the USA? > The answer is only as good as the information the fella talking to the census taker. There was no verification. Some people did indeed lie, for good and bad reason, though most errors were introduced because of forgetfulness and poor recordkeeping. Be skeptical of all dates until you can corroborate them. > How would I go about finding where they came in at? Well, considering that in 1910, over 85% of immigrants to America came in from port of New York, do a search at www.ellisislandrecords.org If that fails, the National Archives and the Mormon's Family history center have copies of ship manifests from other ports. See http://www.nara.gov/genealogy/immigration/immigrat.html or > What area of THEIR country they are from? You really have to get to a town or village to make any significant progress in overseas research. Here are my suggestions. Very few folks make much progress by singularly searching for a surname. Name variations due to errors and overt changes are widely known. Your key to success will be to identify the ancestral village. Most archival records are organized that way. The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of the following documents, if they emigrated to US. a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or offspring's birth. (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy than bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or later). c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization documents) d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the year 1940 only) e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. Held by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index for records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of arrival (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of NY. 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that sound-alike. g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone book. For Slovakia, see http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral village, it is likely you'll still find some of them nearby. The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). Read my material on identifying place names here: http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/kingdom_of_hungary.htm > > No one is living that can help me with this information, no > one every inquired much into it. You know more than you think. You know who the immigrant individual was. You know when they died and roughly how old they were. You can then estimate a date of birth. You also know where they lived, where they were buried. You might know what language they spoke. You might know where they went to church. You may not know all these answers, but you've got a start. Good Luck, Bill Tarkulich

Majtán is most likely the Slovak spelling pronounced "my tawn". The Czech - Slovak census question has more to do with the way the census taker (enumerator) wrote things. Czechoslovakia came into existence in 1918-1920 and ceased to exist in 1993. Prior to 1918-1920, the area was Austria Hungary, so you will see either Austria or Hungary as the homeland. In 1920, most census takers used Czechoslovakia (or Czech) as the country, but they may have indicated the language as "slovak". If your ancestors spoke "Slovak", you should look for their town names in present day Slovakia, however, when the Slovakia part of Czechoslovakia was formed in 1918-1920, parts of the then Upper Hungary were also given to the Ukraine, Poland, and Rumania. Dr. "Q" (NOTE: You must use "REPLY TO ALL" to send a response back to the list; "REPLY" will send a message only to the sender.) Diana K wrote: > I have just started researching ancestors that were Slovak. > Now I would most enjoy some help either here or via websites. > QUESTIONS: > > If it list place born in the Census as Czech and then list them as Slovak > does this mean they were born in Czech? > Is Slovak a culture or country or a place? > > The name I am researching is MAIJTON/ MAJTAN/ MAJTON/ translate to > Mayton/Maton/Matton I am told it was prononuced Mi-TON. but any help is > appreciated. > > I am new to immigrant ancestors. IF in the census it states year of > immigration and the year is say 1910, alien DOES this mean this is when the > arrived in the USA? > > How would I go about finding where they came in at? > What area of THEIR country they are from? > > No one is living that can help me with this information, no one every inquired > much into it. > > THANK you so very much for your patience and help, and any info you can > provide. > I have tons more questions, but have to start someplace. > > ===== > Tweety aka Diana