MIKLOSFALVA,, or MIKLOSFALU were names in the 1800s for MIKLUSOVCE, a section of the village of HORKA, In the old SPIS county. What time period was this text in reference to? Bill Tarkulich > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:28 AM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: question on given names > > > Mikos was most likely Mikolas, which is American Nicholas. > Mihal (sometimes Mihaly) is American Michael. > > Mikos falva looks like a place name to me. Many villages end in > "falva". My gazeteer is at home, I can check it tonight. > > > > Bill Tarkulich > > -----Original Message----- > From: sarnafarm [mailto:sarnafarm@alltel.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 11:39 AM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: question on given names > > > I would like to know what the given names Mikos and Mihal > (Hungarian) would most likely be in American. Also, I found > the phase "Mikos falva" does this mean his father? Thanks. Rose > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=123 7 ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Two of my Great-Grand Aunts migrated to the US probably shortly after WWI. They were both married at this stage as far as I know, in Slovakia, most probably in Hlohovec. Problem is I'm still trying to find out who they were married to via correspondence with archives in Slovakia. The question I have is weather or not the maiden name of women who migrated to the US with their husbands would have been recorded at all in ship records or any other records for that matter. Any help on this subject would be appreciated. Thank you Dusan --------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW to mBox, receive faxes to any email address! Find out more http://www.mbox.com.au/fax

I would like to know what the given names Mikos and Mihal (Hungarian) would most likely be in American. Also, I found the phase "Mikos falva" does this mean his father? Thanks. Rose

Mikos was most likely Mikolas, which is American Nicholas. Mihal (sometimes Mihaly) is American Michael. Mikos falva looks like a place name to me. Many villages end in "falva". My gazeteer is at home, I can check it tonight. Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: sarnafarm [mailto:sarnafarm@alltel.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 11:39 AM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: question on given names I would like to know what the given names Mikos and Mihal (Hungarian) would most likely be in American. Also, I found the phase "Mikos falva" does this mean his father? Thanks. Rose ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

For 1890 to about 1930, the period of records I have inspected, from Austria-Hungary, the answer is the woman's name at time of arrival is the only name stated. No middle names, no aliases. If married, married surname. If single, maiden surname. Just about every head that travelled on board had to be accounted for and document, including the crew. This even applies to stow-aways and people later deported. You will see some entries "lined out" in the manifest. In most cases, they didn't board the ship at departure for reason not explained on the manifest. What most people find is that their surname was badly mispelled on the manifests for various reasons. Look for phonetic matches. Look for poor transcription (a=o=e, f=s, R=K, etc.) Look for other people with that surname and from that village, see who they went to stay with. Then look up those peoples names. For each person, scan the surrounding manifest pages for others from that village. Oft times friends from the same village travelled together or went to stay with others from the same village. You might find them indirectly. It could take months for you to trudge thru the ellis island records to find the match this way, but there is no easier way. The ellislisland site is a treasure trove waiting to be tapped. Put on your detective cap. Good things in life don't come easy. Be persistent & I wish you good luck, Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Dusan Sloboda [mailto:dsloboda@mbox.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 9:31 AM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: women and maiden names Two of my Great-Grand Aunts migrated to the US probably shortly after WWI. They were both married at this stage as far as I know, in Slovakia, most probably in Hlohovec. Problem is I'm still trying to find out who they were married to via correspondence with archives in Slovakia. The question I have is weather or not the maiden name of women who migrated to the US with their husbands would have been recorded at all in ship records or any other records for that matter. Any help on this subject would be appreciated. Thank you Dusan --------------------------------------------------------------------- NEW to mBox, receive faxes to any email address! Find out more http://www.mbox.com.au/fax ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hrabocz might also be Nizny Hrabovec, due south of Kladzany. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:55 AM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: FW: Villages > > > Hello Gary, > > Much more useful info. > Matasovce (Place Of Marriage) is today's Ondavske Matiasovce, > just NE of Vranov nad Toplou, Near the Ondava river. > > Hencovce (1st husbands birth) is just SE of Vranov nad > Toplou. Also known as (Aka) Hencfalva, Hencoc. Kladzany is > next village to the east. I'd be looking around this area for > GM place of birth. > > These are both in the old Zemplin county. > > The FHC > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainfr > ameset.asp > ?display=localitysearch&columns=*,180,0 has the church > records for Matasovce . Why not get them and look up the > marriage info there. You will probably get correct birth > info from that. > > > > Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages, deaths > and confirmations for Ondavské Matiasovce, Slovakia, formerly > Matyasóc (or > Zemplénmátyás) Zemplén, Hungary. Text in Latin and Hungarian. > 1744-1897 Is this the religion you expected? > > > Also records for Kladzany are there: > Evnaglical church parish registers of baptisms, marriages and > deaths for Kladzany, Slovakia, formerly Kladzán, Zemplén, > Hungary. Text in Latin, Hungarian and Slovak . How does > this religion Jibe? He probably went to church in Ondavské > Matiasovce if he was RC too. > > I still have no clue about Rohac/ROHOC. It might be a > street name, locality or something around Vranov. It's quite > possible that her birth records are in Ondavské Matiasovce. > > By the way, both villages are adjacent to each other. > > > This is a great break for you. Will keep you busy too! > Good Luck, > > Bill Tarkulich > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 2:25 AM > To: 'me' > Subject: FW: Villages > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:13 PM > To: 'gcostel64@attbi.com'; 'SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com' > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > Hrabocz is hungarian for HRABOVCE which is now Hrabovec nad > Laborcom in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. It had also > been called Izbugyaraboc from 1907-13. Due north of Humenne. > pob: Ralolto - Still can't find, may be another Hungarian variation. > > Your KLADSAN must be the hungarian KLADZAN, which is now > KLADZANY in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. Alt. Klazany > circa 1910. SW of Humenne. > pob: Rohoc- same comment as above. > > Both villages were close to the rail line running > north-southfrom Medzilborec thru Humenne, southward. > > I'd do a vicinity search for nearby villages. Use > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm note the > village coordinates, then do a radius search at > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm look for > names. SS oft times shows both old and new names. Good luck, > > Bill Tarkulich > > -----Original Message----- > From: gcostel64@attbi.com [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:26 PM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: Villages > > > Per the Ellis Island website: > > G-Grandfather > Name: Mihaly Ondek > Arrival: May 9, 1903 > Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak > Last Residence: Hrabocz > > G-Grandmother > Name: Maria Ondik > Arrival: June 8, 1904 > Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak > Last Residence: Kladsan > > Hello Gary, > > > > Have you researched these names on www.ellisislandrecords.org to see > > what village spellings arise? If you have, you may want to > post your > > names and estimated dates of arrival here so that others who are so > > inclinded might take a look at these names. I have seen > this activity > > > be of great help, when more than one set of eyes are used > to read some > > > script or search for the ellusively misspelled name. > > > > A couple of other points. First, during the early part of > the 1900's, > > > prior to 1918, most EI records make the distinction between Austria > > and Hungary when they refer to the Austria-Hungary empire. Austria > > was typically the used to refer to Galicia (sometimes > Galicia was used > > > in its stead), a great part of Today's Poland, Austria and > sections of > > > Germany. "Hungary" referred to Hungary proper, Slovakia, Czech > > Republic, portions of Romania, Slovenia and other Balkan > territories. > > > > So, my hunch is that Ralolto may be in Galicia, though you > mention the > > > renunciation of Hungary, so the jury is out. Have you used > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm ? It can > help you > > do a sounds-like search. A search on Ralolto and it's variations > > comes up with a name in Romania. > > > > I just checked my 1910 Gazeteer of Hungary and don't find anything > > that comes close to RALOLTO or RALOLTS. The 1910 place names are > > valid for the periods of your GGPs births and emigration. > As you may > > know, villages in the dominion of Hungary had been given Hungarian > > (Magyar) names in stead of their traditional names, in the > mid 1800's. > > > After WWI, the villages resumed their traditional names. > > > > > > It is also extremely helpful if you have some clue as to > what language > > > they spoke. This can narrow down the area of search. > > > > I stand firm on my remarks about misspellings. Just because the > > naturalization document is typed and easy to read, does not make is > > correct. In fact, naturalization papers are a poor source > of village > > name, due to the name having been transferred and passed > down several > > times before it gets to this document. > > > > I think you need to pursue a better source for the village > name. This > > > is an extremely critical step. Here are better sources for village > > names: > > > > The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of > > the following documents, if they emigrated to US. > > a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or > offspring's birth. > > > (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy > > than bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) > > b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or > > later). > > c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization > > documents) > > d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the > > year 1940 only) > > e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 > > f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. > Held > > by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index > for > > records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of > arrival > > (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a > > database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of > NY. > > 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. > > SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that > sound-alike. > > > > g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone > > book. > > > > For Slovakia, see > http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes > > Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral > village, it is > > likely you'll still find some of them nearby. > > > > The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: > > a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the > > informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. > > b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). > > > > > > Good Luck, > > Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:23 PM > > > To: Bill Tarkulich; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: Villages > > > > > > > > > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is more > > > information that was requested. > > > > > > All of this information is coming directly off of the > Naturalization > > > > papers for my great-grandparents. The papers were typed and are > > > very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages long. Again, > each page is > > > > typed and very easy to read. > > > > > > Great-Grandfather > > > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > > > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. Another > > > page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most likely mean > > > Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. He swears to > > > renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria and the > Apostelic King > > > > of Hungary. He states that his last foreign residence was Ralolto, > > > Austria. I cannot make out what is written on his Ellis > Island ship > > > > manifest to see if it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was > > > killed on the railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. > > > > > > Great-Grandmother > > > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > > > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in 1880. > > > Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her late husband > > > was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another page has > it spelled > > > as Hencance. She states that they were married in 1900 in > Matasovce, > > > > Czechoslovakia. Of course, we all know that Czechoslovakia didn't > > > come into existance until 1920 or so. She also states > that her last > > > foreign residence was Klazan. (Present day > > > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island > > > ship manifest. > > > > > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband were > > > from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. This fact > > > was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. > > > > > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these > villages, and then > > > > try to obtain church records from these areas to confirm if the > > > information on the papers is correct. > > > > > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > > > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; > <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > > > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA > > > county. ROHOD > > > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do > > > you have > > > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in > > > > > former > > > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) > > > Where did > > > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? > > > Please re-check > > > > the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to > note the time > > > > period in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization > > > papers. They > > > > > claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > > Matasovce > > > > > Ralolto > > > > > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this > > > > > village. > > > > > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village > close to the > > > > > other names listed above. I do know that they were > from the old > > > > > > Zemplen County. > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion > online genealogy > > > > > > records, go to: > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> > > > > > 1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go > to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 >

Hello Gary, Much more useful info. Matasovce (Place Of Marriage) is today's Ondavske Matiasovce, just NE of Vranov nad Toplou, Near the Ondava river. Hencovce (1st husbands birth) is just SE of Vranov nad Toplou. Also known as (Aka) Hencfalva, Hencoc. Kladzany is next village to the east. I'd be looking around this area for GM place of birth. These are both in the old Zemplin county. The FHC http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp ?display=localitysearch&columns=*,180,0 has the church records for Matasovce . Why not get them and look up the marriage info there. You will probably get correct birth info from that. Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages, deaths and confirmations for Ondavské Matiasovce, Slovakia, formerly Matyasóc (or Zemplénmátyás) Zemplén, Hungary. Text in Latin and Hungarian. 1744-1897 Is this the religion you expected? Also records for Kladzany are there: Evnaglical church parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Kladzany, Slovakia, formerly Kladzán, Zemplén, Hungary. Text in Latin, Hungarian and Slovak . How does this religion Jibe? He probably went to church in Ondavské Matiasovce if he was RC too. I still have no clue about Rohac/ROHOC. It might be a street name, locality or something around Vranov. It's quite possible that her birth records are in Ondavské Matiasovce. By the way, both villages are adjacent to each other. This is a great break for you. Will keep you busy too! Good Luck, Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 2:25 AM To: 'me' Subject: FW: Villages -----Original Message----- From: Bill Tarkulich [mailto:bill@iabsi.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:13 PM To: 'gcostel64@attbi.com'; 'SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com' Subject: RE: Villages Hrabocz is hungarian for HRABOVCE which is now Hrabovec nad Laborcom in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. It had also been called Izbugyaraboc from 1907-13. Due north of Humenne. pob: Ralolto - Still can't find, may be another Hungarian variation. Your KLADSAN must be the hungarian KLADZAN, which is now KLADZANY in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. Alt. Klazany circa 1910. SW of Humenne. pob: Rohoc- same comment as above. Both villages were close to the rail line running north-southfrom Medzilborec thru Humenne, southward. I'd do a vicinity search for nearby villages. Use http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm note the village coordinates, then do a radius search at http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm look for names. SS oft times shows both old and new names. Good luck, Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: gcostel64@attbi.com [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:26 PM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Villages Per the Ellis Island website: G-Grandfather Name: Mihaly Ondek Arrival: May 9, 1903 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Hrabocz G-Grandmother Name: Maria Ondik Arrival: June 8, 1904 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Kladsan > Hello Gary, > > Have you researched these names on www.ellisislandrecords.org to see > what village spellings arise? If you have, you may want to post your > names and estimated dates of arrival here so that others who are so > inclinded might take a look at these names. I have seen this activity > be of great help, when more than one set of eyes are used to read some > script or search for the ellusively misspelled name. > > A couple of other points. First, during the early part of the 1900's, > prior to 1918, most EI records make the distinction between Austria > and Hungary when they refer to the Austria-Hungary empire. Austria > was typically the used to refer to Galicia (sometimes Galicia was used > in its stead), a great part of Today's Poland, Austria and sections of > Germany. "Hungary" referred to Hungary proper, Slovakia, Czech > Republic, portions of Romania, Slovenia and other Balkan territories. > > So, my hunch is that Ralolto may be in Galicia, though you mention the > renunciation of Hungary, so the jury is out. Have you used > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm ? It can help you > do a sounds-like search. A search on Ralolto and it's variations > comes up with a name in Romania. > > I just checked my 1910 Gazeteer of Hungary and don't find anything > that comes close to RALOLTO or RALOLTS. The 1910 place names are > valid for the periods of your GGPs births and emigration. As you may > know, villages in the dominion of Hungary had been given Hungarian > (Magyar) names in stead of their traditional names, in the mid 1800's. > After WWI, the villages resumed their traditional names. > > > It is also extremely helpful if you have some clue as to what language > they spoke. This can narrow down the area of search. > > I stand firm on my remarks about misspellings. Just because the > naturalization document is typed and easy to read, does not make is > correct. In fact, naturalization papers are a poor source of village > name, due to the name having been transferred and passed down several > times before it gets to this document. > > I think you need to pursue a better source for the village name. This > is an extremely critical step. Here are better sources for village > names: > > The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of > the following documents, if they emigrated to US. > a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or offspring's birth. > (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy > than bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) > b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or > later). > c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization > documents) > d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the > year 1940 only) > e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 > f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. Held > by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index for > records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of arrival > (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a > database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of NY. > 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. > SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that sound-alike. > > g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone > book. > > For Slovakia, see http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes > Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral village, it is > likely you'll still find some of them nearby. > > The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: > a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the > informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. > b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). > > > Good Luck, > Bill Tarkulich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:23 PM > > To: Bill Tarkulich; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: Villages > > > > > > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is more > > information that was requested. > > > > All of this information is coming directly off of the Naturalization > > papers for my great-grandparents. The papers were typed and are > > very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages long. Again, each page is > > typed and very easy to read. > > > > Great-Grandfather > > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. Another > > page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most likely mean > > Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. He swears to > > renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria and the Apostelic King > > of Hungary. He states that his last foreign residence was Ralolto, > > Austria. I cannot make out what is written on his Ellis Island ship > > manifest to see if it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was > > killed on the railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. > > > > Great-Grandmother > > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in 1880. > > Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her late husband > > was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another page has it spelled > > as Hencance. She states that they were married in 1900 in Matasovce, > > Czechoslovakia. Of course, we all know that Czechoslovakia didn't > > come into existance until 1920 or so. She also states that her last > > foreign residence was Klazan. (Present day > > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island > > ship manifest. > > > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband were > > from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. This fact > > was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. > > > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these villages, and then > > try to obtain church records from these areas to confirm if the > > information on the papers is correct. > > > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA > > county. ROHOD > > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do > > you have > > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in > > > > former > > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) > > Where did > > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? > > Please re-check > > > the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time > > > period in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization > > papers. They > > > > claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > Matasovce > > > > Ralolto > > > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this > > > > village. > > > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to the > > > > other names listed above. I do know that they were from the old > > > > Zemplen County. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > > > records, go to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> > > > > 1237 > > > > > > > > > > ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hrabocz is hungarian for HRABOVCE which is now Hrabovec nad Laborcom in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. It had also been called Izbugyaraboc from 1907-13. Due north of Humenne. pob: Ralolto - Still can't find, may be another Hungarian variation. Your KLADSAN must be the hungarian KLADZAN, which is now KLADZANY in the old Zemplin County, Slovakia. Alt. Klazany circa 1910. SW of Humenne. pob: Rohoc- same comment as above. Both villages were close to the rail line running north-southfrom Medzilborec thru Humenne, southward. I'd do a vicinity search for nearby villages. Use http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm note the village coordinates, then do a radius search at http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm look for names. SS oft times shows both old and new names. Good luck, Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: gcostel64@attbi.com [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:26 PM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: Villages Per the Ellis Island website: G-Grandfather Name: Mihaly Ondek Arrival: May 9, 1903 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Hrabocz G-Grandmother Name: Maria Ondik Arrival: June 8, 1904 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Kladsan > Hello Gary, > > Have you researched these names on www.ellisislandrecords.org to see > what village spellings arise? If you have, you may want to post your > names and estimated dates of arrival here so that others who are so > inclinded might take a look at these names. I have seen this activity > be of great help, when more than one set of eyes are used to read some > script or search for the ellusively misspelled name. > > A couple of other points. First, during the early part of the 1900's, > prior to 1918, most EI records make the distinction between Austria and > Hungary when they refer to the Austria-Hungary empire. Austria was > typically the used to refer to Galicia (sometimes Galicia was used in > its stead), a great part of Today's Poland, Austria and sections of > Germany. "Hungary" referred to Hungary proper, Slovakia, Czech > Republic, portions of Romania, Slovenia and other Balkan territories. > > So, my hunch is that Ralolto may be in Galicia, though you mention the > renunciation of Hungary, so the jury is out. Have you used > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm ? It can help you do > a sounds-like search. A search on Ralolto and it's variations comes > up with a name in Romania. > > I just checked my 1910 Gazeteer of Hungary and don't find anything that > comes close to RALOLTO or RALOLTS. The 1910 place names are valid for > the periods of your GGPs births and emigration. As you may know, > villages in the dominion of Hungary had been given Hungarian (Magyar) > names in stead of their traditional names, in the mid 1800's. After > WWI, the villages resumed their traditional names. > > > It is also extremely helpful if you have some clue as to what language > they spoke. This can narrow down the area of search. > > I stand firm on my remarks about misspellings. Just because the > naturalization document is typed and easy to read, does not make is > correct. In fact, naturalization papers are a poor source of village > name, due to the name having been transferred and passed down several > times before it gets to this document. > > I think you need to pursue a better source for the village name. This > is an extremely critical step. Here are better sources for village > names: > > The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of the > following documents, if they emigrated to US. > a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or offspring's birth. > (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy than > bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) > b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or > later). > c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization documents) > d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the > year 1940 only) > e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 > f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. Held > by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index for > records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of arrival > (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a > database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of NY. > 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. > SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that sound-alike. > > g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone book. > > For Slovakia, see http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes > Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral village, it is > likely you'll still find some of them nearby. > > The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: > a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the > informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. > b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). > > > Good Luck, > Bill Tarkulich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:23 PM > > To: Bill Tarkulich; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: Villages > > > > > > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is > > more information that was requested. > > > > All of this information is coming directly off of the > > Naturalization papers for my great-grandparents. The papers > > were typed and are very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages > > long. Again, each page is typed and very easy to read. > > > > Great-Grandfather > > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. > > Another page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most > > likely mean Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. > > He swears to renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria > > and the Apostelic King of Hungary. He states that his last > > foreign residence was Ralolto, Austria. I cannot make out > > what is written on his Ellis Island ship manifest to see if > > it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was killed on the > > railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. > > > > Great-Grandmother > > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in > > 1880. Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her > > late husband was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another > > page has it spelled as Hencance. She states that they were > > married in 1900 in Matasovce, Czechoslovakia. Of course, we > > all know that Czechoslovakia didn't come into existance until > > 1920 or so. She also states that her last foreign residence > > was Klazan. (Present day > > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island > > ship manifest. > > > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband > > were from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. > > This fact was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. > > > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these villages, > > and then try to obtain church records from these areas to > > confirm if the information on the papers is correct. > > > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA > > county. ROHOD > > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do > > you have > > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in former > > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) > > Where did > > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? > > Please re-check > > > the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time > > > period in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization > > papers. They > > > > claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > Matasovce > > > > Ralolto > > > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this > > > > village. > > > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to the > > > > other names listed above. I do know that they were from the old > > > > Zemplen County. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > > > records, go to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 > > > > > > > > > > ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Per the Ellis Island website: G-Grandfather Name: Mihaly Ondek Arrival: May 9, 1903 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Hrabocz G-Grandmother Name: Maria Ondik Arrival: June 8, 1904 Nationality: Hungarian, Slovak Last Residence: Kladsan > Hello Gary, > > Have you researched these names on www.ellisislandrecords.org to see > what village spellings arise? If you have, you may want to post your > names and estimated dates of arrival here so that others who are so > inclinded might take a look at these names. I have seen this activity > be of great help, when more than one set of eyes are used to read some > script or search for the ellusively misspelled name. > > A couple of other points. First, during the early part of the 1900's, > prior to 1918, most EI records make the distinction between Austria and > Hungary when they refer to the Austria-Hungary empire. Austria was > typically the used to refer to Galicia (sometimes Galicia was used in > its stead), a great part of Today's Poland, Austria and sections of > Germany. "Hungary" referred to Hungary proper, Slovakia, Czech > Republic, portions of Romania, Slovenia and other Balkan territories. > > So, my hunch is that Ralolto may be in Galicia, though you mention the > renunciation of Hungary, so the jury is out. Have you used > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm ? It can help you do > a sounds-like search. A search on Ralolto and it's variations comes > up with a name in Romania. > > I just checked my 1910 Gazeteer of Hungary and don't find anything that > comes close to RALOLTO or RALOLTS. The 1910 place names are valid for > the periods of your GGPs births and emigration. As you may know, > villages in the dominion of Hungary had been given Hungarian (Magyar) > names in stead of their traditional names, in the mid 1800's. After > WWI, the villages resumed their traditional names. > > > It is also extremely helpful if you have some clue as to what language > they spoke. This can narrow down the area of search. > > I stand firm on my remarks about misspellings. Just because the > naturalization document is typed and easy to read, does not make is > correct. In fact, naturalization papers are a poor source of village > name, due to the name having been transferred and passed down several > times before it gets to this document. > > I think you need to pursue a better source for the village name. This > is an extremely critical step. Here are better sources for village > names: > > The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of the > following documents, if they emigrated to US. > a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or offspring's birth. > (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy than > bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) > b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or > later). > c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization documents) > d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the > year 1940 only) > e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 > f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. Held > by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index for > records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of arrival > (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a > database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of NY. > 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. > SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that sound-alike. > > g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone book. > > For Slovakia, see http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes > Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral village, it is > likely you'll still find some of them nearby. > > The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: > a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the > informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. > b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). > > > Good Luck, > Bill Tarkulich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:23 PM > > To: Bill Tarkulich; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: Villages > > > > > > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is > > more information that was requested. > > > > All of this information is coming directly off of the > > Naturalization papers for my great-grandparents. The papers > > were typed and are very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages > > long. Again, each page is typed and very easy to read. > > > > Great-Grandfather > > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. > > Another page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most > > likely mean Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. > > He swears to renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria > > and the Apostelic King of Hungary. He states that his last > > foreign residence was Ralolto, Austria. I cannot make out > > what is written on his Ellis Island ship manifest to see if > > it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was killed on the > > railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. > > > > Great-Grandmother > > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in > > 1880. Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her > > late husband was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another > > page has it spelled as Hencance. She states that they were > > married in 1900 in Matasovce, Czechoslovakia. Of course, we > > all know that Czechoslovakia didn't come into existance until > > 1920 or so. She also states that her last foreign residence > > was Klazan. (Present day > > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island > > ship manifest. > > > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband > > were from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. > > This fact was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. > > > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these villages, > > and then try to obtain church records from these areas to > > confirm if the information on the papers is correct. > > > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA > > county. ROHOD > > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do > > you have > > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in former > > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) > > Where did > > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? > > Please re-check > > > the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich > > > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time > > > period in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization > > papers. They > > > > claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > > Matasovce > > > > Ralolto > > > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this > > > > village. > > > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to the > > > > other names listed above. I do know that they were from the old > > > > Zemplen County. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > > > records, go to: > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 > > > > > > > > > >

Don't assume that because it's typed and easy to read, that you know what it says! I have my Portuguese/Brazilian grandfather's Naturalization papers and went crazy looking for the town he said he came from: Regeneto. Some lovely people on a Brazilian list were all in agreement that a Brazilian immigrant with a heavy accent was likely saying Rio de Janeiro! Exactly where my grandfather had said he was born. So my guess is, he spoke the name, and someone typed it the way they heard it. Lorrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Costel" <gcostel64@attbi.com> To: <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Villages > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is more information > that was requested. > > All of this information is coming directly off of the Naturalization papers > for my great-grandparents. The papers were typed and are very easy to read. > Each are about 3 pages long. Again, each page is typed and very easy to > read. > > Great-Grandfather > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. Another page has > the spelling as Ralolts. This would most likely mean Austria-Hungary, as > the region was called then. He swears to renounce allegiance to the Emperor > of Austria and the Apostelic King of Hungary. > He states that his last foreign residence was Ralolto, Austria. I cannot > make out what is written on his Ellis Island ship manifest to see if it > matches this info. > My Great-Grandfather was killed on the railroad, and never became a > naturalized citizen. > > Great-Grandmother > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in 1880. Another > page has it spelled as Rohac. > She states her late husband was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another > page has it spelled as Hencance. > She states that they were married in 1900 in Matasovce, Czechoslovakia. > Of course, we all know that Czechoslovakia didn't come into existance until > 1920 or so. > She also states that her last foreign residence was Klazan. (Present day > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island ship manifest. > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband were from the > "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. This fact was passed on to > me from more than 1 relative. > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these villages, and then try to > obtain church records from these areas to confirm if the information on the > papers is correct. > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > -Gary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA county. ROHOD > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do you have > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in former > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) Where did > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? Please re-check > > the letters or send a scan of the document. > > Bill Tarkulich > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time period > > in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization papers. > > > They claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > Matasovce > > > Ralolto > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this village. > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to > > > the other names listed above. I do know that they were from > > > the old Zemplen County. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > > > genealogy records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 > > > > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hello Richard, Glad I can be of help. Might as well share the wealth, this is a hobby and no two cases are alike. So if I can at least keep you away from futile efforts and help you to see "outside of the box" then I have helped. It is after all, a hobby! Now, I am far away from being a language expert. I only know enough to help my research. There are a couple of things to be aware of: 1. Governments: at different periods of time, people and places had different names. It was quite common for a single village to vasilate several times between three or four names over 200 years. 2. The story teller: each person or piece of paper must be understood during the period of time in which they spoke or the paper was written. For example, my GP was born in "Harczos" in 1884. After WW1 it regained its regional name of "Zboj". When my GP immigrated in 1904, the manifest read that he was from "Harczos". When his cousin came in 1918, it was called "Zboj". When he filled out his social security card in 1947, he wrote "Zboj". Some people didn't bother with the context of the time and wrote whatever they wanted to. Morale of the story, try to be prepared with both names. 3. In most cases, the Hungarians totally changed the names of the villages. In the case of surnames, they were only slightly modified, so they still "sounded" the same. 4. During hungarian rule it was common to see the "c" changed to "cz" and the "s" changed to "sz". Be careful,in many cases, the "c" was actually the letter "c" with an accent mark (an small "u" shape) above it. In English, it is pronounced "ch", the same way it is pronounced today in Slovak or Rusyn. The reason most people changed their name in america to "ch" was to make it more pronounceable, simple as that. If you examine the online phonebook, you'll see lots of names like that. Now, when the Hungarians were in power, you'll see that Tarkulic' (my notation for the accent mark) becomes "Tarkulicz" in the church books. Here are some examples I've seen: Rusicz, Rusics, Rusich Tarkulicz, Tarkulics, Tarkulich Szimko, Simko, Simko When they hit the docks of Ellis island, it was written as "Tarkulics" in many cases, I have seen this for hundreds of surnames. I'm uncertain of the reason for this variation, I will guess it is for pronunciation also. Now, my GM's maiden name was changed from DZUBA to JUBA by the family, strictly for pronunciation reasons. It was written as DZUBA in the ship manifest, but within a year they started using JUBA to make it easier on everyone. You'll also find if immigrants intend to change their name spelling, they do it within a couple of years of arrival. Remember, surnames do not necessarily have translation rules the way other English words do. Given names (Petros, Gyorgy, Juraj, etc.) do have rules, since they are oft used. If you are researching in the region of Galicia (southern Poland), you'll see that the name did not get changed (Austria ruled here), but it did conform with Polish language rules i.e., Wasil = Vasyl, Wistla = Vistula, Dzuba = Dziuba If you search takes you to the Ukraine their rules apply, made worse by the use of Cyrillic. (Slovak) Stuzicia = Stjuzicya (Uke) Hope this helps, Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Richard Taubar [mailto:richtaubar@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 11:51 AM To: bill@iabsi.com Subject: Names Bill, I want to tell you how much I appreciate the information you provide on the Slovakia-L list. I have probably learned more about Slovakia from you than any other source. When I see your name on a note, I read the information in detail and with a confidence that you have researched the subject and are providing reliable, accurate information. Thank you for your efforts - you do a great job! I noticed in reading your home pages that your name was originally Tarkulic and it is now Tarkulich. I have learned that my g-grandmother was Maria Simkovic and that when the family came to the United States in about 1909 from Toketerebes, her name was changed to Mary Simkovich. Can you explain for me (and others) what the name conventions and recordings were for Hungarian vs. Slovak vs. American? In other words, how would the same family name have been changed due to the language (political) differences and why was the (h) added to the end of your name and my ancestors? Researching: Bozosi, Danko, Simkovic(h), Hresko, Manko, Sirak, Varga, Wargo, Mesaris, Lovas, Cifranic(h), Stefan. Best Regards, Richard Taubar Sayre, Pennsylvania _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

Hello Gary, Have you researched these names on www.ellisislandrecords.org to see what village spellings arise? If you have, you may want to post your names and estimated dates of arrival here so that others who are so inclinded might take a look at these names. I have seen this activity be of great help, when more than one set of eyes are used to read some script or search for the ellusively misspelled name. A couple of other points. First, during the early part of the 1900's, prior to 1918, most EI records make the distinction between Austria and Hungary when they refer to the Austria-Hungary empire. Austria was typically the used to refer to Galicia (sometimes Galicia was used in its stead), a great part of Today's Poland, Austria and sections of Germany. "Hungary" referred to Hungary proper, Slovakia, Czech Republic, portions of Romania, Slovenia and other Balkan territories. So, my hunch is that Ralolto may be in Galicia, though you mention the renunciation of Hungary, so the jury is out. Have you used http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm ? It can help you do a sounds-like search. A search on Ralolto and it's variations comes up with a name in Romania. I just checked my 1910 Gazeteer of Hungary and don't find anything that comes close to RALOLTO or RALOLTS. The 1910 place names are valid for the periods of your GGPs births and emigration. As you may know, villages in the dominion of Hungary had been given Hungarian (Magyar) names in stead of their traditional names, in the mid 1800's. After WWI, the villages resumed their traditional names. It is also extremely helpful if you have some clue as to what language they spoke. This can narrow down the area of search. I stand firm on my remarks about misspellings. Just because the naturalization document is typed and easy to read, does not make is correct. In fact, naturalization papers are a poor source of village name, due to the name having been transferred and passed down several times before it gets to this document. I think you need to pursue a better source for the village name. This is an extremely critical step. Here are better sources for village names: The most reliable places to find the ancestral village is in one of the following documents, if they emigrated to US. a) Church (U.S.) records of immigrant's marriage or offspring's birth. (Actually immigrants as a group were more trusting of their clergy than bureaucrats and consequentially more truthful!) b) Social Security Application (if legally employed in US 1936 or later). c) INS File (Alien reports, 1st or 2nd papers, naturalization documents) d) INS Alien Registration Form (if a resident alien in the US in the year 1940 only) e) US Census from 1900, 1910 or 1920 f) US Port of Entry records, if you can identify date of arrival. Held by the National Archives (and filmed by Mormons). There is an index for records, organized by last name (SOUNDEX) referenced to date of arrival (records 1902 and later). www.ellisislandrecords.org contains a database and images of manifests from 1892 to 1924 from the Port of NY. 80% of all U.S. immigrants between 1892 and 1924 passed thru here. SOUNDEX is particularly useful in locating surnames that sound-alike. g) If all the above fails, consider looking at a present-day phone book. For Slovakia, see http://www.centroconsult.sk/Support/phone.html#codes Although descendants may have moved from the ancestral village, it is likely you'll still find some of them nearby. The LEAST reliable places to find the ancestral village are: a) U.S. Death Certificate - the information is only as good as the informant, who is many times uninformed or in error. b) Obituaries - For the same reason as (a). Good Luck, Bill Tarkulich > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:23 PM > To: Bill Tarkulich; SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Villages > > > Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is > more information that was requested. > > All of this information is coming directly off of the > Naturalization papers for my great-grandparents. The papers > were typed and are very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages > long. Again, each page is typed and very easy to read. > > Great-Grandfather > Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 > He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. > Another page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most > likely mean Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. > He swears to renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria > and the Apostelic King of Hungary. He states that his last > foreign residence was Ralolto, Austria. I cannot make out > what is written on his Ellis Island ship manifest to see if > it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was killed on the > railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. > > Great-Grandmother > Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 > She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in > 1880. Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her > late husband was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another > page has it spelled as Hencance. She states that they were > married in 1900 in Matasovce, Czechoslovakia. Of course, we > all know that Czechoslovakia didn't come into existance until > 1920 or so. She also states that her last foreign residence > was Klazan. (Present day > Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island > ship manifest. > > Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband > were from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. > This fact was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. > > I am hoping to identify the proper names of these villages, > and then try to obtain church records from these areas to > confirm if the information on the papers is correct. > > Thanks for everyone's help! > > -Gary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> > To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM > Subject: RE: Villages > > > > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA > county. ROHOD > > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do > you have > > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in former > > ZEMPLIN county. > > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) > Where did > > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? > Please re-check > > the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich > > > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time > > period in which the name was referenced. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization > papers. They > > > claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > > Matasovce > > > Ralolto > > > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this > > > village. > > > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to the > > > other names listed above. I do know that they were from the old > > > Zemplen County. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > -Gary > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > > records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 > > > > > >

Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. Below is more information that was requested. All of this information is coming directly off of the Naturalization papers for my great-grandparents. The papers were typed and are very easy to read. Each are about 3 pages long. Again, each page is typed and very easy to read. Great-Grandfather Declaration of Intention dated: March 1, 1917 He states his place of birth as Ralolto, Austria in 1879. Another page has the spelling as Ralolts. This would most likely mean Austria-Hungary, as the region was called then. He swears to renounce allegiance to the Emperor of Austria and the Apostelic King of Hungary. He states that his last foreign residence was Ralolto, Austria. I cannot make out what is written on his Ellis Island ship manifest to see if it matches this info. My Great-Grandfather was killed on the railroad, and never became a naturalized citizen. Great-Grandmother Declaration of Intention dated: June 11, 1936 She states her place of birth as Rohoc, Czechoslovakia in 1880. Another page has it spelled as Rohac. She states her late husband was born in Hencovce, Czechoslovakia. Another page has it spelled as Hencance. She states that they were married in 1900 in Matasovce, Czechoslovakia. Of course, we all know that Czechoslovakia didn't come into existance until 1920 or so. She also states that her last foreign residence was Klazan. (Present day Kladzany.) This is also what is stated on her Ellis Island ship manifest. Great-Grandmother told her children that she and her husband were from the "Zemplensky" region.....ie.....Zemplen County. This fact was passed on to me from more than 1 relative. I am hoping to identify the proper names of these villages, and then try to obtain church records from these areas to confirm if the information on the papers is correct. Thanks for everyone's help! -Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@iabsi.com> To: "'Gary Costel'" <gcostel64@attbi.com>; <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:12 PM Subject: RE: Villages > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA county. ROHOD > IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do you have > information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in former > ZEMPLIN county. > > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) Where did > you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? Please re-check > the letters or send a scan of the document. > Bill Tarkulich > > P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time period > in which the name was referenced. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Villages > > > > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization papers. > > They claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > > > Rohoc (Rohac) > > Matasovce > > Ralolto > > > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this village. > > > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to > > the other names listed above. I do know that they were from > > the old Zemplen County. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > -Gary > > > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > > genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 > > >

> Rohoc (Rohac) There is a ROHO which is present day ROHOV in old NITRA county. ROHOD IN SZABOLICS (still in Hungary, SE of Satoraljaujhely). Do you have information which leads you to believe it is in Zemplin? > Matasovce is present day Ondavske Matiasovce, which is in former ZEMPLIN county. > Ralolto - I can't find this one. RADOLYA , REYLO (Szepes) Where did you get this info from? Was it handwritten or typed? Please re-check the letters or send a scan of the document. Bill Tarkulich P.s., when posting village names, it's important to note the time period in which the name was referenced. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Costel [mailto:gcostel64@attbi.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:05 PM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Villages > > > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization papers. > They claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > Rohoc (Rohac) > Matasovce > Ralolto > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this village. > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to > the other names listed above. I do know that they were from > the old Zemplen County. > > Any ideas? > > -Gary > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 >

I found a Rohov in the eastern part of Slovia, near the Czech border, and a Matiasovce in the north, close to the Polish border. Lorrie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Costel" <gcostel64@attbi.com> To: <SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 10:05 PM Subject: Villages > I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization papers. They claim to have been born and married in these villages: > > Rohoc (Rohac) > Matasovce > Ralolto > > Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this village. > > I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to the other names listed above. I do know that they were from the old Zemplen County. > > Any ideas? > > -Gary > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

I recently found my great-grandparents naturalization papers. They claim to have been born and married in these villages: Rohoc (Rohac) Matasovce Ralolto Another name Hencovce (Hencance) shows up. I did locate this village. I looked high and low, and cannot find any village close to the other names listed above. I do know that they were from the old Zemplen County. Any ideas? -Gary

Here is a decode for those numbers: http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/history/MANIF/annot3.htm Bill Tarkulich -----Original Message----- From: Marlene Norton [mailto:marlene_norton@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 8:18 AM To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Need HELP please --- SLovak ancestor So THAT'S what the number on my grandmother's name meant!!!! I knew she became a citizen. Thank you so much!! Marlene --- WHew536674@cs.com wrote: > "...is there a way to find out if they became a > citizen?' > > One fast way, without even having to get up, is to look > at the EI ship > manifest, if the person you are wondering about is > there. If there is a > number written across the name, or somewhere near it, > they applied for > citizenship. I believe it was after 1903 (?) the courts > had to verify what > ship and the date they came over. The number correlates > to the district > court they were applying at. Just a little trick, > > Joyce > __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

So THAT'S what the number on my grandmother's name meant!!!! I knew she became a citizen. Thank you so much!! Marlene --- WHew536674@cs.com wrote: > "...is there a way to find out if they became a > citizen?' > > One fast way, without even having to get up, is to look > at the EI ship > manifest, if the person you are wondering about is > there. If there is a > number written across the name, or somewhere near it, > they applied for > citizenship. I believe it was after 1903 (?) the courts > had to verify what > ship and the date they came over. The number correlates > to the district > court they were applying at. Just a little trick, > > Joyce > __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

There is no Kolpeny in Slovakia, but there is a Kolpachy which is now called Bansky Studenec. No Volpeny or anything close. Bill Tarkulich > -----Original Message----- > From: Marlene Norton [mailto:marlene_norton@yahoo.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 7:07 AM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: KOLPENY > > > I found a Jurik who came from Kolpeny in 1905. Ellis > Island lists it as Volpeny but several people are listed > on the same sheet as Kolpeny. > > His first name is Janos. My grandfather was "Joe". He > went to Mansfield, Ohio. I would have guessed Lebanon, > Pa. The reason I am really curious about this person is > he went to his brother in law "Mike Pekovsky". Now the > Petosky, Peckovsky, etc. I am possibly related to was Stefan > and lived in Lebanon, Pa later in 1905 but there seem to be > so few "Peckovsky's" in the Ellis Island manifests I am > wondering if this isn't just too much of a coincidence not to > be followed up. > > Marlene Norton > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 > >

....But a > surname of Suzecky being from the town of Szuszek is a lot of > coincidence. Looks like a mistake in the transcription. BT > -----Original Message----- > From: Marlene Norton [mailto:marlene_norton@yahoo.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 10:57 AM > To: SLOVAKIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: SUSEK > > > I am still trying, with no luck so far, to find anything > about my grandfather. He came to America around 1906. We > spelled his name Urick but so far I've found it Uhrick, Uric, > Uhuch on census records, etc. I think he was from Erdevik or > near there. Somewhere across the Danube from Palanka, Hungary. > > Another family that might be related was Petoskey or > Peckovsky or something like that. > > On an earlier message to this site, someone replied the > ending "sky" can mean they were from that city. > > Searching Ellis Island, I found the wife of this Peckovsky > from Erdevik. What I didn't notice at the time on the > same page was Marton Suzecky from Szuszek going to the > same address and person as his brother in law. Following > the above information, Marton's surname could mean he was > from Susek. There is such a city and it is near > Erdevik!!!. I can't help but think there is a connection. > > Any suggestions about information on families from Susek? > I found the Peckovsky's in the 1910 census but not Marton. > If "Suzecky" means he was from "Szuszek" or Susek, > wouldn't he have a different Surname? Certainly not > everyone in the town would use the same "Suzecky"? But a > surname of Suzecky being from the town of Szuszek is a lot of > coincidence. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online > genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=> 1237 >