Kenneth - Welcome to the group! I just want to make a caution though about posting personal information on a mailing list. All the postings to our list are archived. I have a policy on my web site that I don't post anyone's information if they were born after 1900, unless they died years ago. I do appreciate your information though, as I only have pretty sketchy information on Alexander's children (based on the census data I've been able to collect). I show a first marriage for Alexander to Elizabeth "Liddy" SHIVER, daughter of John SHIVER & Mary SHIVER. They were married about 1873 (prob. in Worth Co.) and had two children: Martha "Mattie", Oct 1875 in Worth Co., GA and Warren Judson SHIVER, b. 13 Oct 1877 in Worth Co., GA (d. 28 Mar 1942). Elizabeth "Liddy" (SHIVER) SHIVER, died some time before 1885 when Alexander remarried. I suspect she must have died sometime shortly after Warren Judson died, as there most likely would have been more children born before he remarried. Also, just so you know, Alexander was probably actually born in Irwin or Worth Co., Georgia. Alexander was born in 1854 (before Mitchell Co. was actually formed), and Ransom is found in the 1850 Irwin Co. census and his widow Sarah is found in the 1860 Worth Co. Census. From what I know of that family, they didn't live in Mitchell Co. John Arden Shiver was correct. We assume at this time that Ransom, Enoch, Fleming and Manning SHIVER were brothers. The John SHIVER who was the father of Alexander's first wife was the son of Fleming SHIVER. Given the SHIVER propensity for marrying first cousins, this only adds to the validity of our assumption (in my mind anyway! <g>). I would change this next week if I found more information. Problem is that most of these men lived in Dooly Co., GA in the pre-1850 years and those records were destroyed by fire or flood (I forget) for that period. Lyrice Shiver McCranie (another Enoch descendant and also a member of the list) and I are operating on the premise (for the moment) that Ransom, Enoch, Manning and Fleming were the sons of James and Elizabeth SHIVER (son of John & Hannah of Kershaw Co., SC). She found a newspaper article in a neighboring county for an application in Dooly Co. in 1831 for letters of administration by Enoch SHIVER on the estate of James SHIVER (who was only probably in his early 50s and obviously died without a will). If only we could find those estate papers (who purchased the estate, etc.) we could maybe make a more definitive link. For the moment, this is all we have to go on. It was thought for a while that they were the sons of John, but a man named Alfred SHIVER applied for LOA on his estate in 1833, and the two Alfreds I am aware of were considerably younger than all four of the above brothers. I would think that the older boys would have applied for the LOA, as opposed to the baby of the family... John's also right that if we can't confuse you, then nobody can! :-) Hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving! Just so you know, you and I are very close in age. I have 3 small children (actually not so small, they are all VERY tall for their ages), ages 4, 6 and 8. (Actually the younger two are almost 5 and 7). I've been working on my family history off and on for almost 20 years! You're doing wonderfully! :-) Let me know what you have on the above questions. I want to make sure that my database is correct on these families. Great to meet another cousin! Mary Kathryn -- Mary Kathryn Kozy mkozy@attglobal.net My Home Page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~marykozy/ South King Co. Gene. Soc. page: http://www.rootsweb.com/~waskcgs/ Dougherty Co., GA USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gadoughe/ Monroe Co., GA USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gamonroe/ Lawrence Co., IL USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illawren/