Bonnie - Welcome to the group! :-) I've seen your name floating around, but I don't think we've actually corresponded... I'm grateful for you posting your family tree, as it has finally cemented the connection on that CHANCEY line (Jim Swailes, did you catch that? <g>). Jim was sure there had to be a connection, since he kept seeing them "popping up" next to the AL SHIVERs. Since I'm obviously in the mood for creating conflict (;-)), I'm going to throw out another question that will probably get a good discussion going. What about the TWO Jacob's born in 1789? (We seem to have a similar situation to the two Alfreds going here...) Here's my quandry: There appears to be a Jacob, b. 1789, who md. Mary ??? abt 1823 or so, lived in Lee Co., GA and had the following children: 1. Jacob J. SHIVER (b. 1825), md. Rebecca SHIVER, dau. of Enoch. 2. Miles K. SHIVER (b. 1829), md. 5 different wives! 3. a dau. b. abt. 1830 4. another dau. b. abt. 1832 (I speculate -- notice that word, this is NOT proven -- that this might be Lydia SHIVER found in the 1850 census living in Lee Co. with the Griffin SMITH family...) 5. Samuel A. SHIVER, b. 1836 6. John SHIVER, b. 1840. They are found in Dooly Co. in 1830, and then in Lee Co. in 1840 and 1850. After that I lose them... (and the 1850 Lee Co. Census information is VERY confusing at best...) Next we have the Jacob Jr. line (as I like to call it), as it appears that this Jacob, b. 1789, who md. Sara Ann SWILLEY abt. 1809 is the son of Jacob and Darcus. I probably have census data around here to back this one up too, but don't seem to have it loaded in the computer yet (much to my chagrin). Their children were: 1. unknown SHIVER, sex unknown, died as an infant. 2. Nicholas SHIVER, b. 1813, md. (1) unknown, (2) Frances. 3. Jacob SHIVER III b. 1814, md. (1) unknown, (2) Catherine COOPER. 4. Samuel James Augustus SHIVER, b. 1815, md. Sarah Jane PRESTWOOD . 5. Gilley SHIVER, b. 1818, md. William Terry PRESTWOOD. 6. Abraham SHIVER, b. 1819, md. Minda or Minnie JOHNSON. 7. unknown SHIVER, sex unknown, died as an infant. 8. Mary SHIVER, b. 1823, marriage unknown. 9. Elizabeth SHIVER, b. 1828, md. Henry SNELLGROVE. This branch appears to be the AL branch. They are all in and around Dale and Pike Cos., and appeared to stay there. Also, does anyone have information on Sara Ann SWILLEY's parents? I suspect that her father was Nicholas SWILLEY, a man that appears in both the early SC records as well as the 1819 Dooly Co. land lottery right along with the SHIVERs. His notable accomplishment appears to be that he fought in the Revolution and the War of 1812, as he was allowed 4 draws in the lottery as opposed to the 2 granted War of 1812 vets. Given that Jacob and Sara's first son was named Nicholas and their second son was Jacob, I think this Jacob is in the right place. But alas, where does that leave the first Jacob, b. 1789 with the wife Mary and the 6 children in Lee Co., GA? I'm fairly certain he must belong to either John or James, since they have no "official" children tied to them. Since Dooly Co. records were destroyed, their early-1830 probate papers are unavailable to us, making it difficult to tie any of their children to them. Anyone have any ideas? Boy! I'm being rather long-winded this morning. Must be because I got up with the chickens and the kids are still asleep... allows me time to think clearly without having little ones asking for this and that... but I do love them! :-) Anyone feel free to respond to this if you have input. Thanks! Mary Kathryn -- Mary Kathryn Kozy mkozy@attglobal.net My Home Page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~marykozy/ South King Co. Gene. Soc. page: http://www.rootsweb.com/~waskcgs/ Dougherty Co., GA USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gadoughe/ Monroe Co., GA USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gamonroe/ Lawrence Co., IL USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illawren/