I think you are right Lyrice, as I have a Thomas SHIVER, b. abt. 1862 in Worth Co. to James SHIVER (where did you get Annie's maiden name; do you have a marriage record? I'd LOVE to see that! <g>). James was the son of Alfred and Sarah of Lee County, Georgia. As of yet, I do not know who this Alfred's parents were. There is another Alfred, born in the same year (abt. 1816), with a wife Sarah who was the apparent son of John and Lyddia (as Lyddia was living with him in 1850 Dale Co., AL census), but I cannot seem to make a case for them being the same man... I intend to do a page for these two Alfreds that will appear on my web page as well. I have tried and tried to fit these two men together, but they just won't go quietly! :-) I don't have information on an Alfred Sr. either. The time frames won't fit for there being an Alfred Sr. as far as I can see, as the Alfred, son of John & Lyddia was born in 1816. Where did you receive information of an Alfred Sr.? I have not seen that before... (It appears that there is a LOT of stuff I haven't seen!) ;-) Let me know what you can about this and I'll see how else I can help... Mary Kathryn -- Mary Kathryn Kozy mkozy@attglobal.net My Home Page: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~marykozy/ South King Co. Gene. Soc. page: http://www.rootsweb.com/~waskcgs/ Dougherty Co., GA USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gadoughe/ Monroe Co., GA USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gamonroe/ Lawrence Co., IL USGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illawren/