Hi Vickie and all, I looked back through my notes and I found that I had listed Charlie Ross Shiver (son of James Manning Shiver and not to be confused with the Charlie Ross who is son of William Jackson Shiver of Enoch's line) was married to a Josie Naomi Pitts. ( I wasn't showing any parents for her) No marriage date. A couple of things bother me. One was the dates that I am showing for Charlie and Josie. Charlie B: 16 Jan 1896 and D: 31 Oct 1970 unknown where he died Josie B: 3 Dec 1890 and D: 3 Nov 1932 in Florida Note that this would make Josie six years OLDER than her husband and she died 38 years before her husband! Of course, this is possible!!! I show 8 children: Julie; Miles Herman; Lucille; Naomi; Ellen; Manning; Melvin Ross (born and died same day) and Robert Ross. Ellen was shown as being born in 1932. Did Josie die in Childbirth???? Did Charlie Ross ever remarry??? I have a note somewhere that seem to indicate that he had had two wives! Where did I get that?????? And if he died, who was the second wife????? Well, I looked again and sure enough found a second wife - Alma Bailey - with whom he had two more children - Johnnie and Norman Shiver. Does this agree with what you all have??????? You stated that Josie was listed as Josie Clark - WHERE was she listed as Josie Clark??? If grandma is correct by saying that she was John melvin Pitts's sister, then her mother would be Mary Steadman and her father would be Cudge who is Melvin John Pitts. Is that correct ?? I'm a little bit confused here!!!! And that's not hard for me to be :) I don't have any data on D. B. irland and W. D. Ireland - I show Fannie Roxann Irland Shiver's parents to be Thomas J. Ireland and Sarah Bozeman (and for Mary Kathryn - I don't have the parents for Sarah Bozeman yet) Nor do I show any other children for Thomas and Sarah but "Fannie" though I am sure there were more!!! I think the 1920 census would be the first this family (Charlie Ross and Josie) would be listed going by him being born 1896 plus 20 years equal 1916. So need to look at 1920 census which I have not done yet - does anyone have this census record?? Let me know about the name Clark and where it came from - maybe we can straighten out the family!! I would like to have others input on this family - I could be entirely off base here -- so help!! Lyrice