RE : using records for priests and nuns, If you have a Irish born person enter the Convent or Seminary here in the US and you can prove they are family their personal information can be a gold mind....My 2 g-gaunts did that and when I was able to prove they were family the information I got in their personal info papers from the Convent got me back to Mylerstown Co Kildare and from there to Parish records and more info on the family ...without their information we never would have been able to get the family back to Ireland ..know there were 9 children in the family, know their parents names ...know there were 6 children in the family that emigrated to the US by 1884 for sure .... So don't over look those stories about past family members being in the Religious orders....it took me 2 yrs to get the info to prove to the nuns at the Convent where they were nuns at that they WERE my g-g-grandfathers sisters befor they would release the info....it was a long sometimes brick wall getting it but well worth it for all that their personal information provided...that info also gave a 'person' to a name and date ....I may know little about my gg-grandfather but I sure know what kind of people his sisters were warm, funny ,teasing, full of faith ,one was a wiz with mending shoes, one had a hard time obeying Mother Superior all the time ...one dedicated her time to nursing the sick ...and one was there when the other one died...that info is priceless.. SO if you have mention of a religious please follow that story through..you never be sorry for all the problems you encounter proving them to be family to get the info...my 2 yr quest was well worth it SLC

A big thank you to all who replied to my query on colored paper helping to read light or blurry microfilms. I do appreciate your tips and will put them into use. Patsy

"conaught" also has some good ideas about deciphering letters. One trick I've used is to project the image onto the piece of paper, then trace the letters you can't read -- and the whole word. Then go and trace some letters you *can* read (all 26 if you have to, lower-case and capital). Later you can compare the known and the unknown and at least limit the number of possibilities. Another hazard is the odd use of abbreviations. Good luck with this one! -- === Richard A. Danca, Newton, Mass. mailto:rdanca@ix.netcom.com =====

Ellen Naliboff is correct, yellow paper works well for reading microfilms. So do various shades of orange; pick up (or buy) a few sheets of yellowish and orangey paper at Staples and see what works best for you. I've also heard that a red filter over the lens works, though I have not tried this and have no idea how to fasten it. You can buy red filters at a camera store. Finally, a couple more hints for finding your place. If you're using a reader that projects the information down, draw a horizontal and a vertical line (slightly off-center) on your yellow or orange paper. This will help you follow information across the page. If you're using a reader that displays the info on a screen, use a wide Post-it Note or a piece of Post-It tape to create a horizontal line. Make sure you use removable tape or sticky notes so you don't damage the screen. Also, removable tape makes it easier to move the tape/sticky note to different parts of the screen. Hope this is useful. -- === Richard A. Danca, Newton, Mass. mailto:rdanca@ix.netcom.com =====

Anyone out there doing any research on the DORGAN surname? Specifically looking for the DORGANs of Ballycotton/Ballybraher/Churchtown South/Cloyne, County Cork. Love to speak with anyone connected with any other DORGAN families also. Bill Dorgan

I'm afraid that the rule of stating whether or not a bride or groom's father was or was not still living at the time of the marriage was not often observed. Therefore it is NOT safe to assume that no mention of the father being deceased means that he was still living ! Hope this helps. Cheers, Steven Smyrl APGI ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Davenport <kingfisher2@mindspring.com> To: <SHAMROCK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [SH] Irish Immigration to Argentina > In Civil Marriage Registration films I have viewed recently (for > Tipperary), father's name was included and if deceased that was noted. > > LizD > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shirley Hurrell" <shurrell@gte.net> > To: <SHAMROCK-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:25 PM > Subject: [SH] Irish Immigration to Argentina > > > > > > Margaret's marriage to Mr. Davis in Youghal showed her father's name > as > > George and that he was a carpenter. When that is listed does that > mean that > > George was still alive on her wedding day? - or - could he have been > > deceased? > > > > Any help appreciated. > > > > Shirley in Oregon > > shurrell@gte.net > > > > ______________________________

I sent for my Thomas McMann's death certificate and they sent me Thomas McMahon's from Jersey City. born in Ireland, a painter, died at age 49 at Jersey City Hospital, Jersey City. If anyone needs this info, contact me. Linda

Aall, I have made significant progress over the last months on the McEntee line of my family. I have actually been able to add a McConnon branch to my family! Yesterday I was at the LDS library reading the parish records for Kingscourt County Cavan and I found that the maiden name of both g-g-g-grandmothers was cut off because when they photo copied the page the name was written too close to the spine of the book. At the beginning of the micro-film it says that these micro-film were made from documents property of the library of Ireland. Does anyone know where the original documents are? Are the douments accessible? I will be leaving for Ireland on April 15. Annie

This is a heartful thank-you to two people: Betty, who had the smarts to ask, "What do I do now?" and Janet, who gave her a good, clear response. Now, I now what to do with what I've found in Griffith's Valuation. Thanks, ladies! Jeanne ===== Genealogy = disturbing the dead and irritating the living. Looking to disturb surnames FOLEY, DAVEY, COGERAN. Please contact me with any info regarding names in Jersey City or Co. Clare, Ireland. socrates_399@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

In a message dated 4/8/01 5:04:33 AM, smyrl@indigo.ie writes: << I'm afraid that the rule of stating whether or not a bride or groom's father was or was not still living at the time of the marriage was not often observed. Therefore it is NOT safe to assume that no mention of the father being deceased means that he was still living ! >> I agree. If it says "deceased" you can be pretty sure he was. If it doesn't say, you just cannot be sure which is true. Janet C-S

I'm looking for information that someone sent in a couple of years ago, either to this list or the Ireland list. It was tricks used in reading very unclear microfilm. I believe it involved using colored paper over the glass plate. Is anyone familiar with this? Thanks. Patsy

It is yellow paper on the reading surface, not the glass plate. A legal pad will do if you don't have a sheet of poster board. A friend wears her sun glasses to cut the glare. Ellen Plewie@aol.com wrote: > > I'm looking for information that someone sent in a couple of years ago, > either to this list or the Ireland list. It was tricks used in reading very > unclear microfilm. I believe it involved using colored paper over the glass > plate. Is anyone familiar with this? > Thanks. > Patsy > > ==== SHAMROCK Mailing List ==== > ** Visit TIARA for many helpful links > http://www.tiara.ie **

Hi Patsy, If you use light colored construction paper and place it over the written material it helps make the words a wee bit clearer. I also use the back of a spiral notebook, it is more stiff and sort of a gold color. Also if you use a magnifying glass it can help decipher some letters. Recently somebody suggested spelling out the word that you can't decipher and leaving spaces blank for the letters you can read, this sometimes helps with names. Also if you look some place else on the page for similar letters or words it might be clearer in the other entry and it can help you decipher your illegible word or words. These are just a few ideas. Good luck. Slan go foill, Margaret (Mairead) . > I'm looking for information that someone sent in a couple of years ago, > either to this list or the Ireland list. It was tricks used in reading very > unclear microfilm. I believe it involved using colored paper over the glass > plate. Is anyone familiar with this? > Thanks. > Patsy > > > ==== SHAMROCK Mailing List ==== > ** Visit TIARA for many helpful links > http://www.tiara.ie ** >

In a message dated 4/7/01 2:55:55 PM, LAPIN12@aol.com writes: << Hi Everybody. OK, so I've copied all the Lanigans in Kilkenny from the GV. What do I do now? Betty >> Get the actual GV (not the index) from your LDS FHC and using the info the index gave you, look up the townlands where you found Lanigans. Photocopy the pages. If possible, do the same kind of search in the index for the surname your Lanigan married (but this is only good advice if they married in ireland and you think the spouse was from Kilkenny, too.) If you find the other surname in the same parish, then go to the parish records to see if there is a record of the marriage or of children's baptisms. If not, you've a much harder job. First get out your rabbit's foot or four-leaf clover. You'll need lots of luck. Now start with a townland where you found Lanigans. Pick one where the first name is maybe a match, or at least exists in your ancestor's family. Then find out who owned the land (that's the immediate lessor in the GV) Then check into records for estates in the county, owned by this person. Hopefully, it is Lord Somebody, and the Dublin Archives has lots of his estate records. If you are really lucky, you'll find rent rolls or a lease with your ancestor's name. For more on Griffith's, read here: http://community-2.webtv.net/shamrockroots/shamrockfaq2/ Janet C-S

Hi Everybody. OK, so I've copied all the Lanigans in Kilkenny from the GV. What do I do now? Betty

In Civil Marriage Registration films I have viewed recently (for Tipperary), father's name was included and if deceased that was noted. LizD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirley Hurrell" <shurrell@gte.net> To: <SHAMROCK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:25 PM Subject: [SH] Irish Immigration to Argentina > > Margaret's marriage to Mr. Davis in Youghal showed her father's name as > George and that he was a carpenter. When that is listed does that mean that > George was still alive on her wedding day? - or - could he have been > deceased? > > Any help appreciated. > > Shirley in Oregon > shurrell@gte.net >

APRIL 2001 IRISH OBITUARY UPDATE, This is an extraction from OBITUARY DAILY TIMES, based on an association to Ireland, shown here as "IRL." Visit the ODT web site at < http://www.rootsweb.com/~obituary > There you may search the obituary index, and find help on newspaper abbreviations as they are shown here. _________________________________________________________ AYRES, Mary "Mai" (FRIZZELL); 92; Co Sligo IRL>Easton DE; Delaware SN; 2001-3-7 BRADY, Nora M; 88; COR IRL>Danvers MA; Salem E-N; 2001-3-23 BREHENY, Mary Ellen ( ); ; County Mayo IRL>Brighton MA; Boston Globe; 2000-8-2 BUELL, Catherine M (JOHNSON); 83; Coolboy Tinaheley IRL>Hampton NH; Manchester U-L; 2001-3-9 CARLOS, Agnes F; ; Co Roscommon IRL>Farmington CT; Newsday (NY); 2000-7-4 CHITTENDEN, Eileen Mary (THORNTON); 54; Wexford IRL>Fairbanks AK; Fairbanks DNM; 2001-3-11 COLLINS, Julia A (COLLINS); 88; Skibbereen COR IRL>Concord NH; Manchester U-L; 2001-3-14 CONNOLLY, Margaret R; 81; IRL>Tonawanda NY; Tonawanda News; 1964-10-13 CLARKE, George W; 74; Cty Monaghan IRL>W Hartford CT; Hartford Courant; 2000-5-21 CRAIG, Annie ( ); 87; Glenarm IRL>Swift Current SK; Regina L-P; 2001-3-22 DOHERTY, Bernard; ; Dunaff County Donegal IRL>Los Angeles CA; Los Angeles T; 2001-3-16 DONAHUE, Catherine M (O'ROURKE); 69; Gloundaeigh Currow Killarney KER IRL>Worcester MA; MetroWest DN; 2001-3-23 DRENNAN, Helen ( ); ; Donaghadee IRL>Vancouver BC; Vanc Sun; 2001-3-24 FLANAGAN, Thomas J; 57; Riverstown County Sligo IRL>Maybrook NY; Times Herald Rec; 2001-3-17 FLEMING, Nellie M C; ; Co Kerry IRL; Newsday (NY); 2000-7-5 FULLER, Mary Annastasia (CAMPBELL); 83; IRL>Bracebridge ON; Bracebridge Examiner; 2001-3-28 FULLER, Sister Mary William; 91; County Kerry IRL>Houston TX; Houston Chronicle; 2001-3-19 FORDE, Joseph; 92; Blackpool Cork City IRL>Tulsa OK; Tulsa World; 2000-9-6 HAUS, Etta (McNAMARA); 91; County Ckare IRL>Walnut Creek CA; Contra Costa; 2001-3-27 HUNT, Dymphna (KEANEY); 88; Leitrin IRL>Bricktown NJ; Asbury Park P; 2001-3-2 HYNES, Catherine (FINN); ; IRL>Brighton MA; Boston Globe; 2001-3-24 KENNEALLY, John Joseph; 76; LIM IRL>Paradise CA; San Jose M-N; 2001-3-29 KENNY, Thomas J; ; Co Roscommon IRL; Newsday (NY); 2000-7-1 McCLEARY, Helen Tobin (O'DONNELL); 72; Dublin IRL>Olympia WA; The Olympian; 2001-4-1 McCULLAGH, Susan ( ); 86; Donegal Cty IRL; K C Star (MO); 2001-3-22 McGINTY, Fred; 80; Donegal IRL>Sarnia ON; Sarnia Observer; 2001-3-20 McGOFF, Thomas J; 77; Ballintubber County Mayo IRL>Barre Town VT; World; 1998-6-17 MUNRO, Mary B (COUGHLIN); 94; TIP IRL>Bristol RI; Prov Journal; 2000-1-13 MURPHY, Laura Sister; ; IRL; San Jose M-N (CA); 2001-3-22 MURRAY, Kathleen Anne (COLLINS); 85; Galway IRL>El Sobrante CA; Contra Costa; 2001-3-31 O'BEIRNE, Joan M ( ); 93; IRL; SLT (CA); 2001-3-22 O'BEIRNE, Joan M ( ); 93; IRL; The Daily Review (CA); 2001-3-17 O'BRIEN, Catherine ( ); 92; Dubin IRL>Vancouver BC; Vanc Sun; 2001-3-29 O'BRIEN, George W Jr; 67; Cork IRL>Brunswick ME; Portland P H; 2001-3-26 O'BRIEN, Sarah A ( ); ; Co Down IRL>North Merrick NY; Newsday; 2000-7-12 O'CALLAGHAN, Sister Mary Agnes "Beauty"; 93; Castleisland Co Kerry IRL; Los Angeles T (CA); 2001-3-15 O'CONNOR, Patrick "Paddy"; 92; Dublin IRL>Calgary AB; Calgary Herald; 2001-3-27 O'SHEA, Mary (FLAHERTY); 95; IRL>Holyoke MA; Holyoke H-H; 2001-3-14 O'SULLIVAN, John F; 88; Kenmare County Kerry IRL>Wappingers Falls NY; Times Herald Rec; 2001-3-24 O'SULLIVAN, John P; 85; Dingle Cty Kerry IRL>Manchester CT; Hartford Courant; 2000-6-21 PICKARD, Margaret (YEWEN); 54; Belfast IRL>Calgary AB; Calgary Herald; 2001-3-23 QUINN, Mary (FORD); 97; Letterkenny IRL>Royersford PA; Norristown TH; 2001-3-17 RIEGEL, Margaret (SIMMS); 83; Carrickfergus IRL>Spring Twp PA; Reading Eagle; 2001-3-21 SHARKEY, Frederick Noel; 67; Tibohan County Roscommon IRL>Manahawkin NJ; Asbury Park P; 2001-3-4 SHAUGHNESSY, Beatrice M (KENNY); 76; Kilkenny IRL>Myrtle Beach SC; Sun News; 2001-3-30 SHEARER, Jack Rev; 74; Belfast IRL; Wash DC Post (DC); 2001-1-15 SMITH, Joan Elizabeth (ROSS); 79; Dublin IRL>Renfrew ON; Ottawa Citizen; 2001-3-6 TEDDER, Sheila Frances Julie (O'SULLIVAN); 86; COR IRL>Regina SK; Regina L-P; 2001-3-30 TULLY, Thomas; ; Cavan IRL>Passaic NJ; Asbury Park P; 2001-3-3 WALSH, Michael T Sr; ; Galway IRL>Norwood MA; Boston Globe; 2001-3-24 WATERLOO, Mary Ellen (DOLAN); ; County Caven IRL>Wonder Lake IL; Northwest Herald; 2001-4-3 WINE, Claire (GLASSMAN); ; Dublin IRL; Boston Globe (MA); 2000-8-4 Best wishes, Tony Riordan triordan@msn.com ______________________________________________________________ THE RIORDAN FAMILY GENEALOGY PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/triordan.geo/index.html

Were there any listings there for either an English or an O'Connor family? Kathy Marie Garness

The following look like interesting and useful Irish genealogy publications. *********************************************************** How to Trace Your Family History from Dublin City Libraries (Paperback; 5.00 IEP / 6.00 USD / 4.00 UK) This is a new brief guide to Sources of Genealogical Research in Ireland. ************************************************************ Irish Methodists - Where Do I Start? By Steven c. ffeary-Smyrl (Paperback; 4.00 IEP / 5.00 USD / 3.00 UK) This is the first of a new pamphlet series entitled: Exploring Irish Genealogy. It is a practical guide which establishes which records survive and are available, and explains their content and state where they are held. ************************************************************** Irish Civil Registration - Where Do I Start by Eileen M. O Duill and Steven c. ffeary-Smyrl (Paperback; 5.00 IEP / 6.00 USD / 4.00 UK) Second in the series Exploring Irish Genealogy. This book is a guide to the history of civil registrations in Ireland and the numerous records available at the General Register Office in Dublin and Belfast and at the local Registration Offices around the country. *************************************************************** Read Ireland @ Phibsboro Bookshop, 342 North Circular Road, Phibsboro, Dublin 7, Ireland www.readireland.ie web page. Orders, questions, criticism or general comments to: gregcarr@readireland.ie To compare prices, check a local bookstore. I was not able to find any of these titles at Amazon.com. Best wishes, Tony Riordan triordan@msn.com ______________________________________________________________ THE RIORDAN FAMILY GENEALOGY PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/triordan.geo/index.html

Kathy Marie Garness <kathleen656@earthlink.net> To: <SHAMROCK-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [SH] Tithe Applotments - Parish Tipperary > Were there any listings there for either an English or an O'Connor family? Hi Kathy, For O'Connor and English baptismal and marriage records, go to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~irishchurchrecords/index.html Irish Church Records; Tipperary, Limerick, Waterford & Clare It has over 3,000 baptismal and marriage records. Try a search of O'Connor and English. You will find 15 O'Connor and 73 English records. Most are from County Tipperary, and many are from the Parish of Tipperary. Best wishes, Tony Riordan triordan@msn.com ______________________________________________________________ THE RIORDAN FAMILY GENEALOGY PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/triordan.geo/index.html