Alan, Thank you for this. Twenty years seems a long time to take to make up your mind!!! Gordon Smith (8479) ----- Original Message ----- From: "alan" <alan@stoner.org.uk> To: "Gordon Smith" <sativushouse@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [SFHG] Harman >I have two examples of delayed marriages. And one is a Miles! > > Elizabeth Rhoda Nicholls was born in 1872. In 1890 as Rhoda Elizabeth > Nicholls she married James Henry Stoner and in 1918 as Elizabeth R Stoner > married William Miles. The second m/c says widowed but that James Henry's > death has not been found in the indexes or on the CWGC site, before or > after. > > Four Stoner births occurred 1904-1912, two with Miles as a second forename > and two others with 'M'. The last birth has mother's maiden name Nicholls, > as does one certificate. The others have not been seen. > > The second example has births from 1930-1955 and the marriage not until > 1980. The husband had married in Malta and then separated from his first > wife. > > Alan > > > Gordon Smith wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> Thank you for this. You may well be right - the coincidence of "Miles" as >> a second Christian name is very strong! I realise that IGI is very >> unreliable but it is at least a starting-point! >> >> Thank you also for the NZ contact. >> >> Gordon Smith (8479) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Deborah Montgomerie" <ifm@whidbey.net> >> To: "'Gordon Smith'" <sativushouse@yahoo.co.uk>; <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:54 PM >> Subject: RE: [SFHG] Harman >> >> >> >>> Hi Gordon, >>> >>> I took a look for you and I see that both records in the IGI were put >>> there >>> by a member of the LDS church. Any time you see that it means that the >>> source could be unreliable. The info did not come from a parish >>> register. >>> Members of the LDS church are encouraged to give family members names as >>> part of sealings for the dead. The info could have come from a family >>> bible >>> or be just family hearsay and you may be relying on people's memories. >>> >>> Perhaps the record that Jackie found is the correct one and the couple >>> didn't get married until much later on. It does sound as if Kate/Kitty >>> Miles was the mother of John but perhaps John and Kate were not married >>> when >>> he was born. 20 years before deciding to get married was not unheard of >>> :-) >>> >>> Debbie >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Gordon Smith >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:44 AM >>> To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [SFHG] Harman >>> >>> To the list: >>> >>> I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles >>> Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman >>> and >>> Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the >>> spouse of >>> Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage between >>> a >>> John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an Abigail Gunn >>> or a >>> Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of "Miles" as a >>> second >>> Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles Harman was indeed the >>> son >>> of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for suggestions as to how I can solve >>> this. >>> >>> Gordon Smith (8479) >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>> in >>> the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > >

Hello Judith, I've had a qick look for Mary A. in Sussex between 1924 and 1926 and can't see anything that fits. I can however confirm Percy's death. Q3 1931 Brighton 2b 271 Percy C Taylor, age 55 Regards, Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Mooney" <judith.brooke@btinternet.com> To: "History Group" <SFHG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: [SFHG] Request for look-up > Hello there listers, > > > Could some very kind person with access to death records look up my > gt.gr.mother's death please? I have tried FreeBMD but they haven't really > got into the 1920s yet. I have also tried the IGI. The information I > have > is: > > Mary Ann TAYLOR (nee Hughes) born 24 April 1842 (widow of Robert Taylor, > d. > 7 Dec 1915). > She died 3 May 1925 (according to my information, which is suspect) > I don't know exactly where she died, but she lived in Brighton and had a > house in Keymer. > > I would also be grateful for confirmation of the date of her son's death: > > Percy Clarence TAYLOR b. 17 Jul 1876. > Died I think 25 Sep 1931, Brighton. > > Thank you very much, > Judith 10915 > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: > 17.Apr.2008 > 09:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hello there listers, Could some very kind person with access to death records look up my gt.gr.mother's death please? I have tried FreeBMD but they haven't really got into the 1920s yet. I have also tried the IGI. The information I have is: Mary Ann TAYLOR (nee Hughes) born 24 April 1842 (widow of Robert Taylor, d. 7 Dec 1915). She died 3 May 1925 (according to my information, which is suspect) I don't know exactly where she died, but she lived in Brighton and had a house in Keymer. I would also be grateful for confirmation of the date of her son's death: Percy Clarence TAYLOR b. 17 Jul 1876. Died I think 25 Sep 1931, Brighton. Thank you very much, Judith 10915 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: 17.Apr.2008 09:00

Hello again Judith, Have now also found the other death you were looking for as follows. Death: Taylor, Percy C. Age 55, Sept qtr 1931, Brighton 2b 271. Regards, John Green, 9502 in Ontario, Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Mooney" <judith.brooke@btinternet.com> To: "History Group" <SFHG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [SFHG] Request for look-up > Hello there listers, > > > Could some very kind person with access to death records look up my > gt.gr.mother's death please? I have tried FreeBMD but they haven't really > got into the 1920s yet. I have also tried the IGI. The information I > have > is: > > Mary Ann TAYLOR (nee Hughes) born 24 April 1842 (widow of Robert Taylor, > d. > 7 Dec 1915). > She died 3 May 1925 (according to my information, which is suspect) > I don't know exactly where she died, but she lived in Brighton and had a > house in Keymer. > > I would also be grateful for confirmation of the date of her son's death: > > Percy Clarence TAYLOR b. 17 Jul 1876. > Died I think 25 Sep 1931, Brighton. > > Thank you very much, > Judith 10915 > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: > 17.Apr.2008 > 09:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

-----Original Message----- From: Deborah Montgomerie [mailto:ifm@whidbey.net] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:26 PM To: 'Edward Sear' Subject: RE: [SFHG] Help Please Importance: High Hi Margaret, I believe it refers to W.H. Challen who lived in Worthing who transcribed original documents and I think BT means the source was the Bishops Transcript. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Edward Sear Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:19 PM To: SFHG Mailing List Subject: [SFHG] Help Please Being new to Family research and finding it very interesting I wondered whether anybody could help me. I have just got some information from the SFHG burials index and wondered what (Challen BT) means. Margaret 12577 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can offer two supporting examples of delayed marriages. And one is a Miles! Elizabeth Rhoda Nicholls was born in 1872. In 1890 as Rhoda Elizabeth Nicholls she married James Henry Stoner and in 1918 as Elizabeth R Stoner married William Miles. The second m/c says widowed but James Henry's death has not been found. Four Stoner births occurred 1904-1912, two with Miles as a second forename and two others with 'M'. The last birth has mother's maiden name Nicholls, as does one certificate, father unspecified. The others have not been seen. The second example has births from 1930-1955 and the marriage was not until 1980. The husband had married in Malta and then separated from his first wife. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Gordon Smith >> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:44 AM >> To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [SFHG] Harman >> >> To the list: >> >> I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles >> Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman >> and >> Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the spouse >> of >> Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage between a >> John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an Abigail Gunn or >> a >> Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of "Miles" as a second >> Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles Harman was indeed the >> son >> of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for suggestions as to how I can solve >> this. >> >> Gordon Smith (8479)

Hello Judith, I have found the following which may be your grt. grandmother's death. Found on Ancestry. Death, Taylor Mary A, age 60, Brignton Dec qtr. 1926, 2b 316. Regards, John Green, 9502 in Ontario Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Mooney" <judith.brooke@btinternet.com> To: "History Group" <SFHG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [SFHG] Request for look-up > Hello there listers, > > > Could some very kind person with access to death records look up my > gt.gr.mother's death please? I have tried FreeBMD but they haven't really > got into the 1920s yet. I have also tried the IGI. The information I > have > is: > > Mary Ann TAYLOR (nee Hughes) born 24 April 1842 (widow of Robert Taylor, > d. > 7 Dec 1915). > She died 3 May 1925 (according to my information, which is suspect) > I don't know exactly where she died, but she lived in Brighton and had a > house in Keymer. > > I would also be grateful for confirmation of the date of her son's death: > > Percy Clarence TAYLOR b. 17 Jul 1876. > Died I think 25 Sep 1931, Brighton. > > Thank you very much, > Judith 10915 > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: > 17.Apr.2008 > 09:00 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Debbie, Thank you for this. You may well be right - the coincidence of "Miles" as a second Christian name is very strong! I realise that IGI is very unreliable but it is at least a starting-point! Thank you also for the NZ contact. Gordon Smith (8479) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Montgomerie" <ifm@whidbey.net> To: "'Gordon Smith'" <sativushouse@yahoo.co.uk>; <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:54 PM Subject: RE: [SFHG] Harman > Hi Gordon, > > I took a look for you and I see that both records in the IGI were put > there > by a member of the LDS church. Any time you see that it means that the > source could be unreliable. The info did not come from a parish register. > Members of the LDS church are encouraged to give family members names as > part of sealings for the dead. The info could have come from a family > bible > or be just family hearsay and you may be relying on people's memories. > > Perhaps the record that Jackie found is the correct one and the couple > didn't get married until much later on. It does sound as if Kate/Kitty > Miles was the mother of John but perhaps John and Kate were not married > when > he was born. 20 years before deciding to get married was not unheard of > :-) > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf > Of Gordon Smith > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:44 AM > To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SFHG] Harman > > To the list: > > I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles > Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman > and > Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the spouse > of > Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage between a > John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an Abigail Gunn or > a > Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of "Miles" as a second > Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles Harman was indeed the > son > of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for suggestions as to how I can solve > this. > > Gordon Smith (8479) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > >

I`ve always used the term Great Uncle, Tony thats` the way it is with my family, both sides. Joe Austen 9934 in oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com> To: "Researcher.E." <researcher3e@tiscali.co.uk> Cc: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator > Thank you very much Eileen, a very clear chart. > > Another thing that puzzles me is that in my family the term 'grand' > uncle has never been used. We've always referred to 'great' uncles. Is > this a local thing, or have others used this variation? > > Tony 9967 > > On 16/04/2008, Researcher.E. <researcher3e@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >> Hello fellow listers, >> I tried to send a scanned relationship chart to the list but it would >> only >> go as an attachment so if anyone would like a copy I am happy to send the >> attachment off-list. The chart is easy to use and clears up many a >> mystery. >> Regards, Eileen >> - >> -How are you related? >> Once, Twice or Three Times Removed? >> The diagram uses male family titles but it is easy to substitute the >> female >> equivalents. >> The whole pattern will repeat itself, not only on your mother's side but >> also for your partner (husband, wife) >> You will probably find you have a bigger family than you may have >> expected. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com> >> To: "Warwick and Eleanor Dilley" <dilleywe@bigpond.net.au> >> Cc: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: > 15/04/2008 6:10 PM > >

Thank you Margaret - it will be a great help - I have saved a copy and printed one as well. Helen On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:17:26 +0100 (BST), "MARGARET LESANTO" <m.glesanto@btopenworld.com> said: > http://www.obliquity.com/family/misc/cousin.html > > I have this site Cousins Explained, may be of help. > > Margaret > > Helen Shipley <natbrent@fastmail.fm> wrote: > Perhaps it is a local thing to sue the term 'great' re uncles and aunts > - it is the term my family has always used as well as other families - I > have not come across the useage of 'grand' instead - it could be a term > that was used more in the past of course and has been changed over time, > as with the term 'in-law', which used to be used for any relationship > which was by marriage rather than by blood. Be interesting to find out > what others think. > > I must find my relationship calculator as I get in a terrible muddle - > usually end up describing everyone as distant, or not so distant > cousins.... > > Helen > > > > On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:45:26 +0100, "Tony Holkham" > said: > > Thank you very much Eileen, a very clear chart. > > > > Another thing that puzzles me is that in my family the term 'grand' > > uncle has never been used. We've always referred to 'great' uncles. Is > > this a local thing, or have others used this variation? > > > > Tony 9967 > > > > On 16/04/2008, Researcher.E. wrote: > > > Hello fellow listers, > > > I tried to send a scanned relationship chart to the list but it would only > > > go as an attachment so if anyone would like a copy I am happy to send the > > > attachment off-list. The chart is easy to use and clears up many a mystery. > > > Regards, Eileen > > > - > > > -How are you related? > > > Once, Twice or Three Times Removed? > > > The diagram uses male family titles but it is easy to substitute the female > > > equivalents. > > > The whole pattern will repeat itself, not only on your mother's side but > > > also for your partner (husband, wife) > > > You will probably find you have a bigger family than you may have expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" > > > To: "Warwick and Eleanor Dilley" > > > Cc: > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:23 AM > > > Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > Helen > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Laura, Can I just say a few words regarding the subject. During my service with the Royal Marines all personnel involved with the 'Policing' of a Royal Marine Barracks, Depot etc were termed as 'PROVOST STAFF'. I never heard them referred to as Royal Marine Policeman. Whilst serving on a Royal Naval Ship the 'REGULATING BRANCH' would administer discipline of the Naval Ratings. and The Officer Commanding Royal Marines would administer his own men, A lot of R.N. shore establishment had 'Dockyard Policemen', and these were usually Naval Hospitals and perhaps other establishments that did not warrant Regulating or Provost staff.Perhaps if you Googled' 'Provost' something might turn up. Best of luck. Don FRASER

Philip, An interesting thought - thank you! I think this particular poser will continue to nag away at me for some time to come! Gordon Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Evans" <info@philevans.org> To: "Gordon Smith" <sativushouse@yahoo.co.uk>; <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [SFHG] Harman > Hello Gordon, > > As every entry I have looked at for John's baptism so far has been "Member > Submitted", my advice would be to ignore it, especially if the extracted > entries for that period are on the IGI. > > Have you considered that, if illegitimate, his mother may have been a > Harman and his father is the Miles. > > Regards, > Phil > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gordon Smith" <sativushouse@yahoo.co.uk> > To: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:43 AM > Subject: [SFHG] Harman > > >> To the list: >> >> I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles >> Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman >> and Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the >> spouse of Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a >> marriage between a John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with >> an Abigail Gunn or a Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use >> of "Miles" as a second Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles >> Harman was indeed the son of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for >> suggestions as to how I can solve this. >> >> Gordon Smith (8479) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > >

Jackie, Thank you for this. The coincidence of names is attractive but the dates make it unlikely, I think - there is too much evidence for the dates I have! Gordon Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Rowntree" <jackie.rowntree@becksidemill.fsnet.co.uk> To: "'Gordon Smith'" <sativushouse@yahoo.co.uk>; <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [SFHG] Harman > Gordon > Checked BVI below is the only one I found but 20 years later > > HARMAN, John Marriage > Wife: Kitty MILES > Marriage Date: 23 Oct 1785 Recorded in: Brighton, Sussex, > England > Collection: St Nicholas > Source: FHL Film 1067105 Dates: 1754 - 1797 > I also checked Baptism > There is a John Harman for both the marriages you mention but not yours > > Regards Jackie 10751 > > -----Original Message----- > From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf > Of Gordon Smith > Sent: 16 April 2008 10:44 > To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SFHG] Harman > > To the list: > > I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles > Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman > and > Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the spouse > of > Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage between a > John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an Abigail Gunn or > a > Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of "Miles" as a second > Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles Harman was indeed the > son > of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for suggestions as to how I can solve > this. > > Gordon Smith (8479) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hello Gordon, As every entry I have looked at for John's baptism so far has been "Member Submitted", my advice would be to ignore it, especially if the extracted entries for that period are on the IGI. Have you considered that, if illegitimate, his mother may have been a Harman and his father is the Miles. Regards, Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Smith" <sativushouse@yahoo.co.uk> To: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: [SFHG] Harman > To the list: > > I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles > Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman > and Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the > spouse of Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage > between a John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an > Abigail Gunn or a Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of > "Miles" as a second Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles > Harman was indeed the son of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for > suggestions as to how I can solve this. > > Gordon Smith (8479) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi there Tony, 'grand'uncle has come into use in the last 30 years or less. You might call it an anomaly, but there were only 'grand'parents when I was a child in the 40s and 50s. Everyone else of that generation was 'great'. And I don't think that was local use - I heard it from all my relatives, in various parts of the country. I wonder whether 'grand' has come over from America, or maybe it has come about with the new popularity of family history and people not knowing of the generation jump in terminology. I heard it for the first time long after I came back to England in the 80s (many years abroad give you a chance to hear clearly changes in language), in fact I would say I've only heard it in the last few years. I wonder what other people think. Regards, Judith 10915 -----Original Message----- From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Tony Holkham Sent: 16 April 2008 10:45 To: Researcher.E. Cc: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator Thank you very much Eileen, a very clear chart. Another thing that puzzles me is that in my family the term 'grand' uncle has never been used. We've always referred to 'great' uncles. Is this a local thing, or have others used this variation? Tony 9967 On 16/04/2008, Researcher.E. <researcher3e@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > Hello fellow listers, > I tried to send a scanned relationship chart to the list but it would only > go as an attachment so if anyone would like a copy I am happy to send the > attachment off-list. The chart is easy to use and clears up many a mystery. > Regards, Eileen > - > -How are you related? > Once, Twice or Three Times Removed? > The diagram uses male family titles but it is easy to substitute the female > equivalents. > The whole pattern will repeat itself, not only on your mother's side but > also for your partner (husband, wife) > You will probably find you have a bigger family than you may have expected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com> > To: "Warwick and Eleanor Dilley" <dilleywe@bigpond.net.au> > Cc: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:23 AM > Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1378 - Release Date: 15.Apr.2008 09:12 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 15.Apr.2008 18:10

Gordon Checked BVI below is the only one I found but 20 years later HARMAN, John Marriage Wife: Kitty MILES Marriage Date: 23 Oct 1785 Recorded in: Brighton, Sussex, England Collection: St Nicholas Source: FHL Film 1067105 Dates: 1754 - 1797 I also checked Baptism There is a John Harman for both the marriages you mention but not yours Regards Jackie 10751 -----Original Message----- From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: 16 April 2008 10:44 To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SFHG] Harman To the list: I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman and Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the spouse of Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage between a John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an Abigail Gunn or a Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of "Miles" as a second Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles Harman was indeed the son of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for suggestions as to how I can solve this. Gordon Smith (8479) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gordon, I have just looked in Rootsweb in the Sussex-Plus-L archive messages and there is a lady named Denise McKenzie in NZ who has researched Catherine (Kitty/Kate) Miles and family. She says she has a lot of information. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:44 AM To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SFHG] Harman To the list: I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman and Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the spouse of Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage between a John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an Abigail Gunn or a Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of "Miles" as a second Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles Harman was indeed the son of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for suggestions as to how I can solve this. Gordon Smith (8479) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Tony, The chart probably originated in America. It was given to me when I joined the Family History group at our local U3A and I hadn't questioned the "Grand", knowing we always say "Great" when speaking of Uncles, Aunts etc and "Grand" when speaking of Grandparents, in England.. I am relieved the scan transferred ok. Regards, Eileen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com> To: "Researcher.E." <researcher3e@tiscali.co.uk> Cc: "Warwick and Eleanor Dilley" <dilleywe@bigpond.net.au>; <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator > Thank you very much Eileen, a very clear chart. > > Another thing that puzzles me is that in my family the term 'grand' > uncle has never been used. We've always referred to 'great' uncles. Is > this a local thing, or have others used this variation? > > Tony 9967 > > On 16/04/2008, Researcher.E. <researcher3e@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >> Hello fellow listers, >> I tried to send a scanned relationship chart to the list but it would >> only >> go as an attachment so if anyone would like a copy I am happy to send the >> attachment off-list. The chart is easy to use and clears up many a >> mystery. >> Regards, Eileen >> - >> -How are you related? >> Once, Twice or Three Times Removed? >> The diagram uses male family titles but it is easy to substitute the >> female >> equivalents. >> The whole pattern will repeat itself, not only on your mother's side but >> also for your partner (husband, wife) >> You will probably find you have a bigger family than you may have >> expected. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com> >> To: "Warwick and Eleanor Dilley" <dilleywe@bigpond.net.au> >> Cc: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >

Hi Gordon, I took a look for you and I see that both records in the IGI were put there by a member of the LDS church. Any time you see that it means that the source could be unreliable. The info did not come from a parish register. Members of the LDS church are encouraged to give family members names as part of sealings for the dead. The info could have come from a family bible or be just family hearsay and you may be relying on people's memories. Perhaps the record that Jackie found is the correct one and the couple didn't get married until much later on. It does sound as if Kate/Kitty Miles was the mother of John but perhaps John and Kate were not married when he was born. 20 years before deciding to get married was not unheard of :-) Debbie -----Original Message----- From: sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:sfhg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:44 AM To: SFHG-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SFHG] Harman To the list: I would be grateful for help and/or advice. My 3Ggrandfather, John Miles Harman (born about 1767), is said (by IGI) to be the son of John Harman and Kate Miles, and indeed IGI also shows the elder John Harman as the spouse of Kate Miles. However, neither familysearch nor SMI has a marriage between a John Harman and a Kate Miles; IGI shows marriages with an Abigail Gunn or a Rose Mary Moore at the appropriate time but the use of "Miles" as a second Christian name is strong evidence that John Miles Harman was indeed the son of Kate Miles. I would be grateful for suggestions as to how I can solve this. Gordon Smith (8479) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I suppose logically grandfather's brother would be a grand uncle and great grandfather's brother should be a great grand uncle. Having said that my family only spoke of great uncles. Alan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Shipley" <natbrent@fastmail.fm> To: "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com>; "Researcher.E." <researcher3e@tiscali.co.uk> Cc: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator > Perhaps it is a local thing to sue the term 'great' re uncles and aunts > - it is the term my family has always used as well as other families - I > have not come across the useage of 'grand' instead - it could be a term > that was used more in the past of course and has been changed over time, > as with the term 'in-law', which used to be used for any relationship > which was by marriage rather than by blood. Be interesting to find out > what others think. > > I must find my relationship calculator as I get in a terrible muddle - > usually end up describing everyone as distant, or not so distant > cousins.... > > Helen > > > > On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:45:26 +0100, "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com> > said: >> Thank you very much Eileen, a very clear chart. >> >> Another thing that puzzles me is that in my family the term 'grand' >> uncle has never been used. We've always referred to 'great' uncles. Is >> this a local thing, or have others used this variation? >> >> Tony 9967 >> >> On 16/04/2008, Researcher.E. <researcher3e@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >> > Hello fellow listers, >> > I tried to send a scanned relationship chart to the list but it would >> > only >> > go as an attachment so if anyone would like a copy I am happy to send >> > the >> > attachment off-list. The chart is easy to use and clears up many a >> > mystery. >> > Regards, Eileen >> > - >> > -How are you related? >> > Once, Twice or Three Times Removed? >> > The diagram uses male family titles but it is easy to substitute the >> > female >> > equivalents. >> > The whole pattern will repeat itself, not only on your mother's side >> > but >> > also for your partner (husband, wife) >> > You will probably find you have a bigger family than you may have >> > expected. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" <t.holkham@sky.com> >> > To: "Warwick and Eleanor Dilley" <dilleywe@bigpond.net.au> >> > Cc: <SFHG-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 1:23 AM >> > Subject: Re: [SFHG] Relationship calculator >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > Helen > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SFHG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >