Hi List I wonder if anyone can assist. Douglas Ivone Kirkpatrick-Picard Bn: 25 Nov 1869 in St Johns Wood, London is my maternal Grandfather. He last appears on the 1881 England Census with his family residing in Marylebone. He married Ada Maud Alice Bird on the 13 Jan 1896 in Victoria, Australia. It appears that Douglas emigrated to Australia sometime between 1881 and 1896. I have been searching The National Archives (England) and other sources but have been unable to discover his actual date of departure and vessel details. Douglas' father, Dr Peter Kirkpatrick-Picard wanted his son to follow in his footsteps and become a Doctor. However Douglas did not share this ambition, so his father disowned him, giving Douglas some money and telling him to make his own way in life. So Douglas came to Australia. (Good choice) It's possible that Douglas used the surname Picard or Pickard in any travel records. In any event I have not been able to find his emigration details. If anyone has better access to these records, I would appreciate help in finding Douglas. Regards Doug Child Western Australia

Sandra,   It happened quite often, though technically it was illegal, and I think most people saw it as a sensible arrangement.  Some clergymen may have had a problem though, which might explain why such marriages often took place in London.  This was the case with my 2x great grandfather. He must have known it could lead to family feuds, as the children of the "illegal" marriage were illegitimate, and he tried to cover that in his will where he referred to his children "whether or not born in wedlock".   Neal ________________________________ From: sandra moffatt <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2012, 2:55 Subject: [SFHG] Jane and Ellen Gander....sisters? I have a bit of a mystery. I know that men sometimes married sisters of their deceased wives. I have a George Hobden marrying a Jane Gander in 1857. She was born in 1838 in Cuckfield. She died in 1872 leaving 2 children,  and he remarried an Ellen Gander the next year.  Both Jane and Ellen name their fathers as Henry Gander. I don't see 2 Henry Ganders in Ditchling, so would it be right to assume they were sisters? The 1841 and 1851 Census show Jane living with Henry and his wife Sarah.The 1861 and 1871 Census show Ellen living with Henry and Sarah and no Jane. Sandra                          ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Doug, At first glance, I only see a vague possibility: Mr.Kirkpatrick (single) Departed Southampton Oct.5, 1890 Ship's name was Kaiser Wilhelm II Destined for Adelaide, Australia More details to be sent offline. Phil Vaughan Canada -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Doug Child Sent: November-15-12 12:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [SFHG] Douglas Ivone Kirkpatrick-Picard Hi List I wonder if anyone can assist. Douglas Ivone Kirkpatrick-Picard Bn: 25 Nov 1869 in St Johns Wood, London is my maternal Grandfather. He last appears on the 1881 England Census with his family residing in Marylebone. He married Ada Maud Alice Bird on the 13 Jan 1896 in Victoria, Australia. It appears that Douglas emigrated to Australia sometime between 1881 and 1896. I have been searching The National Archives (England) and other sources but have been unable to discover his actual date of departure and vessel details. Douglas' father, Dr Peter Kirkpatrick-Picard wanted his son to follow in his footsteps and become a Doctor. However Douglas did not share this ambition, so his father disowned him, giving Douglas some money and telling him to make his own way in life. So Douglas came to Australia. (Good choice) It's possible that Douglas used the surname Picard or Pickard in any travel records. In any event I have not been able to find his emigration details. If anyone has better access to these records, I would appreciate help in finding Douglas. Regards Doug Child Western Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a bit of a mystery. I know that men sometimes married sisters of their deceased wives. I have a George Hobden marrying a Jane Gander in 1857. She was born in 1838 in Cuckfield. She died in 1872 leaving 2 children, and he remarried an Ellen Gander the next year. Both Jane and Ellen name their fathers as Henry Gander. I don't see 2 Henry Ganders in Ditchling, so would it be right to assume they were sisters? The 1841 and 1851 Census show Jane living with Henry and his wife Sarah.The 1861 and 1871 Census show Ellen living with Henry and Sarah and no Jane. Sandra

Hello again, I have a Nancy Florence White who married Frederick Thomas Hobden in 1904. In the 1911 Census, they are living at Coombe Place, Lewes where he is shown as a painter and "gentleman caretaker". I know this was a large country estate. Does anyone know who was living there at the time? Nancy was a domestic servant/cook before getting married. She was living at Wickham Hall in the 1901 Census. (although they show her as Florence N. White :/) Of course I can't find any records after 1911. So if anyone knows anything about this place and maybe where I might find some archival records for post 1911?? Thanks everyone, Sandra

hello listers this months meeting went very well with all our memories of shops , and especially as we had a contributor from new Zealand Margaret sent a recollection of her father which I read out at the meeting. so if you can not come but see we are talking about something you would like to join in just send a short message a couple of days before the meeting and I will include it at the meeting. next month "a memory of your childhood Christmas." Christine God Bless

Hi everyone, Many thanks for the rapid responses from Ann, Gwen and Victor. It's great to be on a mailing list that is so responsive.... Some answers: "...What relation is this Thomas TAYLOR to you? ... " He's my great great grand-uncle. His brother Robert emigrated to Australia, and I am a direct descendant. " .. Who else of his relations are in NSW????.." ... Many descendants of Robert, b 1834 - I have an extensive tree I shall happily forward to anyone researching this family. "... Who are Emma's parents??..." I think she is the Emma Bristow baptised 28 June 1846 St Pauls CoE, Deptford, Kent - parents: George and Elizabeth Bristow. However, Victor's information casts doubt - why does she show Deptford Kent on 3 census entries (1871/1891) and then change to Oakwood Hill (1901) and Ockley Surrey (1911)? Nevertheless, I think this Emma Tickner is the one I'm looking for. ".. emigration records from the UK National Archives / Ancestry UK ..." No luck there - having a common surname like Taylor is a real disadvantage with these lists, which usually only show "T. Taylor" anyway. Victor appears to have been most successful in tracking them down - may be something to do with those long Manitoba days and nights below freezing!. "...Thomas and Emma appear to have had 10 children starting with Emma C born c 1869, followed by Thomas H in 1870 then © Katherine, Ada, Alice M, Silas, Lydia, Herbert Edward, Amelia and lastly Ellen in 1890...."  (Yes, I've got them all!) "...I find a death for a Thomas Taylor, Sep 1893, Poplar, 1c, 414 aged 51...."  His death obviously caused great problems for the family  -  Emma is able to remarry, but doesn't seem to have the youngest children with her - Herbert Edward has died (June q 1892 Wandsworth 1d 343) but did Amelia (b 1887) or Ellen (b 1889) die? Hard to believe a mother wouldn't have a 7 year old or 5 year old daughter with her ... " ....Ada married Arthur Thurtle Sep 1900, Greenwich, 1d, 1951...." " ...Lydia in the 1901 census is in Merton, Surrey as a servant aged 19...." "....Silas Taylor married 26/11/1901 at Stockwell, London to Rosanna Taylor...." Many thanks for all that extra info on Ada, Lydia and Silas. I did find an entry for Thomas H.in 1891 - alas, he was "(21) prisoner, gardener's labourer, Wandsworth Prison, London (b Deptford Kent)" The others will remain a mystery I fear - did Emma marry after 1881? Or Catherine and Maud after 1891? Did Ada Thurtle die (no record found) or separate and remarry? What happened to Lydia/Lilian and Amelia and Ellen. It looks like it was a family destroyed by a series of tragedies. Again many thanks to all who responded. Mark Taylor in overcast and rainy Sydney, only 19 degrees today

I have a large number of Starleys from the same period in my tree but they are all centred on Cuckfield. Is there any connection? Gordon Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "sandra moffatt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:27 PM Subject: [SFHG] Martha Batchelor > > > > > Hello everyone, I have a Martha Batchelor marrying Thomas Starley in > Twineham. The only date I can find for her birth is 1764. Is there a > baptismal record which shows her parents Richard and Ann Penfold? Also, > this Richard is shown baptised 8 April 1727 in Cuckfield. Does it show on > a parish record who his parents were? Does anyone know what the Batchelors > and Starley's did for a living back then? Without census records or wills, > it's very hard to determine what their occupations were. Regards,Sandra > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Mark, just a few bits more detail for your records. Silas Taylor married 26/11/1901 at Stockwell, London to Rosanna Taylor. They appear in 1911 at 4 Brailsford Road, Tulse Hill, London, SW2 together with a son Leonard aged 7 a daughter Laura Rose aged 6 and mother in law Laura Taylor aged 74, widow. Laura”s husband was Albert and he died between the marriage in 1901 and 1911. Rosanna died Dec 1951, Lambeth, 5c, 1217 aged 76 and left a will to son Leonard Silas Taylor. Effects £460. 7s. 3d. Silas the husband died Mar 1855, Lambeth 5c, 1445 aged 76. Ancestry has the images. The census transcriptions on Find My Past are incorrect as regards the 1911 for the Laura’s noting them with the surname Rose. Happy hunting, vic in chilly Manitoba, where it’s minus 22c tonight.

Hi Mark What relation is this Thomas TAYLOR to you? I take it that his parents were Robert & Elizabeth and that this NSW death is not your Thomas District Purchase Certificate 1907/1902 TAYLOR THOMAS P ROBERT ELIZABETH LIVERPOOL Who else of his relations are in NSW???? Registration Number Last Name Given Name(s) Father's Given Name(s) Mother's Given Name(s) Who are Emma's parents?? I also assume that you have gone thru the emigration records from the UK National Archives Regards Gwen Connolly Qld -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Taylor Sent: Monday, 12 November 2012 5:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [SFHG] Thomas Taylor and family Hi there, For my first post, I have a missing family ... Thomas Taylor was born 1840, baptised 14 June 1840 at St Nicholas' CoE Brighton, married 28 July 1867 to Emma Bristow (b 8 May 1846, christened 28 June 1846 Deptford Kent). In the census records from 1871 to 1891 he is a cheesemaker, and living at 18 Wood St, Lambeth St Mary Surrey in 1891. I can find no further records and suspect the family emigrated, but where to? Can anybody help please? Mark Taylor, member 15623, in sunny Sydney ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mark think I may be confusing everyone, It was Hilda that was with Grace Thurtle in Cranleigh in 1911. Lilian was with Jesse and Emma Tickner in Cranleigh in 1911. By the way Ada’s death was Sep 1903, Ongar, 4a, 212 aged 33. Apologies everyone, vic in snowy Manitoba. Think the cold has affected the grey matter somewhat.

Hi Mark, well for a first post it’s a wonderful teaser. Not sure how much family info you have so if I repeat your research I’m sorry. Thomas and Emma appear to have had 10 children starting with Emma C born c 1869, followed by Thomas H in 1870 then © Katherine, Ada, Alice M, Silas, Lydia, Herbert Edward, Amelia and lastly Ellen in 1890. Like you I had been unable to find them in 1901/11 or as named passengers on the ships lists. Going around the houses I find a death for a Thomas Taylor, Sep 1893, Poplar, 1c, 414 aged 51. Was he with Ada? see below. There is a marriage for Emma Taylor to Jesse Tickner Sep 1894, Lambeth, 1d, 762. Ancestry has them in 1901/11 in Cranleigh Surrey. In 1891 Alice is with them as Maud Taylor, Step daughter aged 26 born Vauxhall. in 1911 they have Lilian Taylor, Daughter with them aged 30 born Vauxhall. This could be Lydia? Ada married Arthur Thurtle Sep 1900, Greenwich, 1d, 1951. They had a child Hilda Millicent Thurtle, born 19/10/1901.address 146 High Street, Poplar. Hilda was baptised at St. Matthias, Poplar, her father being a Poor Law officer according to the parish record. (available on Ancestry) Ancestry also has a school record for her and also a death in Mar 1966, Sutton, 5e, 277, aged 64, Unmarried. In 1911 Hilda is with Stepmother Grace Lilian Thurtle (married Arthur Dec 1905, Westminster, 1a, 1110. She being Nee Hillier. Arthur Thurtle I think is the one on the 1911 census at Fair Green, Mitcham, Surrey. Lydia in the 1901 census is in Merton, Surrey as a servant aged 19. Silas seems to have joined the Navy as he is found on Vessels in the census in 1901. I have not tracked the other family members but there are a few trees on Ancestry that seem to coincide with some of the details. Maybe worth getting in touch and helping each other. The site I used were Ancestry, Freebmd and FindMypast. Sorry if this duplicates your research but hope it helps in some way. Regards, vic 9082.

Hi there, For my first post, I have a missing family ... Thomas Taylor was born 1840, baptised 14 June 1840 at St Nicholas' CoE Brighton, married 28 July 1867 to Emma Bristow (b 8 May 1846, christened 28 June 1846 Deptford Kent). In the census records from 1871 to 1891 he is a cheesemaker, and living at 18 Wood St, Lambeth St Mary Surrey in 1891. I can find no further records and suspect the family emigrated, but where to? Can anybody help please? Mark Taylor, member 15623, in sunny Sydney

hello Roffey meeting members Tuesday 13th we are discussing Shoppers under counter over the counter behind the counter. what do remember of the old shops ? were your ancestors shopkeepers see you there st Andrews church Hall Roffey 1x30 to 3x30 Christine God Bless

hello Roffey meeting members Tuesday 13th we are discussing Shoppers under counter over the counter behind the counter. what do remember of the old shops ? were your ancestors shopkeepers see you there st Andrews church Hall Roffey 1x30 to 3x30 Christine God Bless

Sandra, The Sussex Group Data Archive shows the baptism of Martha on 25th March 1764 showing the parents as Richard and Ann as were a number of other children to them. There is also an interesting entry for the baptism of a Katherine Bachelor on 8th March 1778 to Martha Bachelor a singlewoman. The Archive does not show the baptism for Richard in Cuckfield. Regards, Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of sandra moffatt Sent: 10 November 2012 14:28 To: [email protected] Subject: [SFHG] Martha Batchelor Hello everyone, I have a Martha Batchelor marrying Thomas Starley in Twineham. The only date I can find for her birth is 1764. Is there a baptismal record which shows her parents Richard and Ann Penfold? Also, this Richard is shown baptised 8 April 1727 in Cuckfield. Does it show on a parish record who his parents were? Does anyone know what the Batchelors and Starley's did for a living back then? Without census records or wills, it's very hard to determine what their occupations were. Regards,Sandra ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2624/5883 - Release Date: 11/08/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2624/5883 - Release Date: 11/08/12

Gerald, I must admit I saw the marriage of Thomas Goland, but didn't have the chance to research further. With regards your other Thomas Goland, he married AnnTicehurst in Peasmarsh on 4th Aug 1786. There is another Thomas Goland marriage in Peasmarsh.....m Charlotte Uprain on 16th April 1821. Cheers, Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gerald Peskett Sent: 10 November 2012 17:36 To: [email protected] Subject: [SFHG] Missing Peasmarsh marriage solved. Thanks to Brian and Brian for the information on the marriage of Thomas Wait to Rebecca Goland.  They were unable to find the second marriage I was looking for of Thomas Wait to Philadelphia ?.   Based on the information they provided I believe I've actually found the missing marriage.  It appears Rebecca Goland had a child prior to her marriage to Thomas Wait.  That child was baptized in 1826, Thomas Goland would become the oldest child of Thomas Wait.  It appears he carried the name of Goland for some time, including for his marriage (that I've found on FreeBMD) to Philadelphia Thomas in 1845 in Rye (presumably in Peasmarsh).  Interestingly enough he uses the name of Wait for the censuses. Perhaps someone might be able to verify the details of this marriage for me please.  Thank you. If possible could someone also look at the marriage of Thomas Goland and an Ann presumably also in Peasmarsh.  The earliest child listed on the SFHG site was born in 1787, so I assume the marriage to be someone earlier than that. Many thanks, Gerald Peskett Ontario, Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2624/5883 - Release Date: 11/08/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2624/5883 - Release Date: 11/08/12

Hello Gerald, I found the following on the SFHG marriage index: 4 Aug 1786, Thomas Goland to Ann Ticehurst Peasmarsh, East Sussex. Regards, John Green, 9502, Bolton, Ontario, Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Peskett" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 12:36 PM Subject: [SFHG] Missing Peasmarsh marriage solved. Thanks to Brian and Brian for the information on the marriage of Thomas Wait to Rebecca Goland. They were unable to find the second marriage I was looking for of Thomas Wait to Philadelphia ?. Based on the information they provided I believe I've actually found the missing marriage. It appears Rebecca Goland had a child prior to her marriage to Thomas Wait. That child was baptized in 1826, Thomas Goland would become the oldest child of Thomas Wait. It appears he carried the name of Goland for some time, including for his marriage (that I've found on FreeBMD) to Philadelphia Thomas in 1845 in Rye (presumably in Peasmarsh). Interestingly enough he uses the name of Wait for the censuses. Perhaps someone might be able to verify the details of this marriage for me please. Thank you. If possible could someone also look at the marriage of Thomas Goland and an Ann presumably also in Peasmarsh. The earliest child listed on the SFHG site was born in 1787, so I assume the marriage to be someone earlier than that. Many thanks, Gerald Peskett Ontario, Canada ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to Brian and Brian for the information on the marriage of Thomas Wait to Rebecca Goland.  They were unable to find the second marriage I was looking for of Thomas Wait to Philadelphia ?.   Based on the information they provided I believe I've actually found the missing marriage.  It appears Rebecca Goland had a child prior to her marriage to Thomas Wait.  That child was baptized in 1826, Thomas Goland would become the oldest child of Thomas Wait.  It appears he carried the name of Goland for some time, including for his marriage (that I've found on FreeBMD) to Philadelphia Thomas in 1845 in Rye (presumably in Peasmarsh).  Interestingly enough he uses the name of Wait for the censuses. Perhaps someone might be able to verify the details of this marriage for me please.  Thank you. If possible could someone also look at the marriage of Thomas Goland and an Ann presumably also in Peasmarsh.  The earliest child listed on the SFHG site was born in 1787, so I assume the marriage to be someone earlier than that. Many thanks, Gerald Peskett Ontario, Canada

Hello everyone, I have a Martha Batchelor marrying Thomas Starley in Twineham. The only date I can find for her birth is 1764. Is there a baptismal record which shows her parents Richard and Ann Penfold? Also, this Richard is shown baptised 8 April 1727 in Cuckfield. Does it show on a parish record who his parents were? Does anyone know what the Batchelors and Starley's did for a living back then? Without census records or wills, it's very hard to determine what their occupations were. Regards,Sandra