Hi Malcolm, You have misinterpreted something I wrote, in that I haven't yet looked for your records in the Penninghame OPR. I have only looked at the IGI, to see what can be anticipated from the OPRs. The IGI marriage record for James KELLY & Margaret HANNAY has been extracted from the Penninghame OPR, so we know that record is there to check. I can do that for you on my next visit to the library. As the IGI has no baptism record for the birth of James abt 1843, or abt 1810, it is most unlikely there is a record of them in the OPR. I see that there are such records for John 1834, William 1837, Joseph 1841, Margaret 1846, and Jane 1849, so I can check those for you. I really love problems with a special twist . . . . Whilst looking at the IGI, I noted that 1851 marriage of James KELLY & Elizabeth McCLELLAN, and wondered if it was the same James KELLY. I also noted that a James KELLY was baptised in Kirkcowan parish to James KELLY & Elizabeth McCLELLAN in 1841. Although I didn't mention this in my off-list message, I had intended to look at the Kirkcowan OPR to see if this was an illegitimate birth. It could be just coincidence that another couple were involved, but I wondered if it could be the same James, and he eventually married Elizabeth when free to do so. Now that you have said that your James KELLY is the one who married Elizabeth McCLELLAN, I am wondering if you already have proof of this? Does James' death registration name both wives? Do you have the 1861 and 1871 census details? If so, does either show children of both Margaret HANNAY and Elizabeth McCLELLAN in the same household? James KELLY born Penninghame abt 1843, and James KELLY born Kirkcowan 1841, both appear in the 1851 census. I wonder if you have them both in 1861 and/or 1871? (I had wondered if they were the same person, as although not a good age match, could have explained the lack of baptism record for the one born abt 1843. The 1851 census seems to have resolved this, although I do want to look at the original of that record also.) If it was your James KELLY who fathered the James KELLY in 1841, there should be mention of it in the Kirkcowan Kirk Session Records, which are held in National Archives, Edinburgh. If you can't vist Edinburgh, it may be best to get a professional researcher to do a lookup. First, I need to take a look see what that Kirkcowan baptism record has to say. That may be at the coming weekend, but could be later. Regards, Bruce __________________ Hi, I am a new subscriber and this is my first listing, so I hope I am doing it right! I have been researching my paternal grandfather John Lockerbie's family from Dumfriesshire for some time and now it is the turn of my grandmother Jessie Kelly. Although Jessie was born in 1880 in Minnigaff, her father James Kelly was born 1843/4 in Penninghame. Her mother was Jessie Maxwell christened 28.6.1850 in Wigtown. They married 5.7.1872 in Wigtown James father was James Kelly b.1810/11 in Penninghame (from census data only), to William Kelly/Margaret McKay,according to his 1878 death certificate. James married 5.10.1834 in Penninghame(IGI) to Margaret Hannah/y b. 1815/6 Penninghame? Margaret died between the birth of her last child Jane b.18.2.1849 Penninghame and the 1851 Census in Minnigaff where James was a 'WIdower'. James remarried to Elizabeth McLellan 31.5.1851 in Minnigaff. She died in 1868. As can be seen I have missing data on the two James and Margaret Hannay. I have contacted Bruce and Wayne directly and both suggest I post this enquiry. Access to Penninghame MIs might give some clues if any member can help? I do have the Minnigaff MI for the younger James(d 1914) which includes Jessie Maxwell and their children John, James, Maggie(Harper) and Elizabeth(Coley). No other Kelly Minnigaff MIs are relevant. Bruce could not find anything on the Pennighame OPRs, so again any member ideas. Also is any member connected to this Kelly family? My grandparents met and married in Liverpool in 1903 and all family contact back 'home' was lost after their early deaths in the late 1920s. I trust this makes sense and welcome any response or advice. Malcolm Lockerbie