A friend whom I introduced to the different rootsweb sites, found this in her sleuthing. Need it be said, mine didn't make it easy to follow either patter, and I'm still on the hunt for a few elusive Scarlet Pimpernels. Maisie ------ From: "Liam Martin" <L.Martin@zen.co.uk> Date: June 3, 2007 10:37:25 AM EST To: <nir-antrim@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [NIR-ANTRIM] Scottish naming tradition Reply-To: nir-antrim@rootsweb.com This is from Dumfries & Galloway FHS: Naming Conventions "In the 18th and 19th centuries families tended to name their children in a specific pattern, which can give some guidance to family names: Males: First-born Son Father's father Second-born Son Mother's father Third-born Son Father Fourth-born Son Father's eldest brother Fifth-born Son Father's 2nd oldest brother or Mother's oldest brother Females: First-born Dau Mother's mother Second-born Dau Father's mother Third-born Dau Mother Fourth-born Dau Mother's eldest sister Fifth-born Dau Mother's 2nd oldest sister or Father's oldest sister In some cases you will find that the order is reversed with the first and second children, i.e. the First-born son being named after the Mother's father and the Second-born son after the Father's father. If this is the case then the daughters are also reversed." The Irish Pattern First son after father's father Second son after mother's father Third son after father Fourth son after father's oldest brother Fifth son after mother's oldest brother First daughter after mother's mother (or father's mother) Second daughter after father's mother (or mother's mother) Third daughter after mother Fourth daughter after mother's oldest sister Fifth daughter after father's oldest sister Are these identical or not? Liam "A bird in the bush is worth two in the cat"