Hi Judi, Re your message below: "Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 17:18:23 +0800 From: "Judi Hollands" <dutchess@wn.com.au> Subject: [WIG LIST] Balsarroch To: <SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com Hi Wig Listers Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction? I am after any information on Balsarroch. Many of my early BELL ancestors are recorded as being born, dying or residing at Balsarroch - what exactly was it? A farm? A town? A region??? Thanks, in anticipation of a response. Regards Judi" I wonder if the place 'Balsarroch' could be the same as 'Balsalloch', a farm in Penninghame. Regards Ailsa ------------------------------ To contact the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE list administrator, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE mailing list, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 80 ***********************************************

I am not sure if I have replied properly but Balsarroch is a ruin (farmhouse?) about 2 miles due west of Kirkcolm in the elbow of the B738 road where it does a sharp turn to the left or to the south. I am not sure if there are any other places called by the same name. Donald Main.

Hi Judy, Balsarroch will have been a farm. There's only one in Wigtownshire by that spelling that I can see on the current OS Landranger map. It is in the parish of Kirkcolm, about 4km or 2.5 miles west of Kirkcolm village. Balsarroch Wood is marked close by on Google Maps. If your BELLs were not from Kirkcolm, there are other similar named farms in the parishes of Penninghame, Mochrum, and Stoneykirk. Perhaps there may have been one in Wigtown also. Spelling was rather arbitrary prior to the 19th century, and the farther back in time, the more variations one will find, so those other farms could easily have been recorded at some time as Balsarroch. What parish were your BELLs in, and over what time span? Regards, Bruce

On 04/05/2013, at 3:00 PM, sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Today's Topics: > > 1. Balsarroch (Judi Hollands) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Balsarroch is a ruined building about a couple of miles due west of > Kirkcolm inside the elbow of the B738 road which turns sharp left > when traveling from Kirkcolm. Presumably once a decent farmhouse but > I am not sure if there are any other places with a similar name. Donald Main

There is a farm in Mochrum called Barsalloch is it maybe the same place you are looking for Margaret McDowall

Hi Judi   There is a Balsalloch Farm, but it is in Ayrshire not Wigtownshire.   Mary From: "sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com" <sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com> To: sct-wigtownshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 4 May 2013, 8:00 Subject: SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 80 ********************************************************************************     When replying to a digest message, quote only the specific message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying.   ********************************************************************************   11 Feb 2013 All Wig list subscribers are in digest mode until list mode starts working again. ******************************************************************************** Today's Topics:   1. Balsarroch (Judi Hollands) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 17:18:23 +0800 From: "Judi Hollands" <dutchess@wn.com.au> Subject: [WIG LIST] Balsarroch To: <SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <001b01ce47df$29a2d760$7ce88620$@wn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" Hi Wig Listers Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction?  I am after any information on Balsarroch.  Many of my early BELL ancestors are recorded as being born, dying or residing at Balsarroch - what exactly was it?  A farm? A town? A region??? Thanks, in anticipation of a response. Regards Judi ------------------------------ To contact the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE list administrator, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE mailing list, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 80 ***********************************************

Hi Wig Listers Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction? I am after any information on Balsarroch. Many of my early BELL ancestors are recorded as being born, dying or residing at Balsarroch - what exactly was it? A farm? A town? A region??? Thanks, in anticipation of a response. Regards Judi

Hi Mary and Wig Listers, I would just like to say that I am quite enjoying receiving the Wig List posts in Digest Mode. It seems to be easier than receiving separate emails. I can read through the posts more quickly to look for any that are relevant to my family history. Regards, Ailsa

Last week, I offered tips about how to streamline your digest replies: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE/2013-04/1366924343. Now I'd like to add some further tips. If you're a list mode subscriber, you typically see your post appear promptly in your inbox. But when you're subbed in digest mode -- as we all are right now -- you won't see your post till the next digest comes out. This could be up to a day later. You can, however, verify that your message posted by checking our archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE. Messages appear there almost immediately. If you ever think your message hasn't posted, please check the archives before you repost. Indeed, it's a good habit to always confirm that your message made it to the archives -- at least while list mode is broken. We also recommend that you check the archives before replying to a post, as this may avoid some superfluous cross-talk. Thanks again for helping to keep our digests clean! Mary

Hi Mary I know we've spoken before but don't know if you remember. These people are related to us as well but I don't know anything about David McAllister.  I've kinda consentrated on John Cloy instead. John married Christina Ross McDowall and she's my hubby's 3rd. cousin John had two sisters that I know of Margaret born 1906 and Helen on 19 Sep 1910 Don't know much more on either of them as I said I followed John's family. Will help if I can however Regards Margaret. Margaret McDowallThe WhinsSouthendCampbeltownPA28 6RQ01586 830336 --- On Wed, 1/5/13, sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com <sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: From: sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com <sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com> Subject: SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 77 To: sct-wigtownshire@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, 1 May, 2013, 15:00 ********************************************************************************     When replying to a digest message, quote only the specific message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying.     ********************************************************************************     11 Feb 2013 All Wig list subscribers are in digest mode until list mode starts working again. ******************************************************************************** Today's Topics:    1. Cloy and McAllister (Mary Forsyth)    2. Cloy and McAllister (Mary Forsyth) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 10:30:26 +0100 (BST) From: Mary Forsyth <mar_for2003@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [WIG LIST] Cloy and McAllister To: "SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com"     <SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID:     <1367314226.85230.YahooMailNeo@web172606.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi ? Does anyone have any information on David McAllister who married Helen Thomson Cloy in Kirkcowan in 1941.? Helen was born in Kirkcowan 1910.? Her parents were Rachel Knight McCreadie and James Cloy. ? ? Mary ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:14:26 +0100 (BST) From: Mary Forsyth <mar_for2003@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [WIG LIST] Cloy and McAllister To: "SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com" <SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com> Message-ID:     <1367352866.73689.YahooMailNeo@web172606.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi Does anyone have any information on David McAllister who married Helen Thomson Cloy in Kirkcowan in 1941. Helen was born in Kirkcowan 1910. Her parents were Rachel Knight McCreadie and James Cloy. ? Mary ------------------------------ To contact the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE list administrator, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE mailing list, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 77 ***********************************************

Hi Does anyone have any information on David McAllister who married Helen Thomson Cloy in Kirkcowan in 1941. Helen was born in Kirkcowan 1910. Her parents were Rachel Knight McCreadie and James Cloy.   Mary

Hi   Does anyone have any information on David McAllister who married Helen Thomson Cloy in Kirkcowan in 1941.  Helen was born in Kirkcowan 1910.  Her parents were Rachel Knight McCreadie and James Cloy.     Mary

HI Jennifer, Here are some items that I have transcribed from Volumes 1 & 2 of the Index to the Wigtown Free Press: HORNAL James m Louisa Chesney at Creebridge 1851 10/04 1f Jane d at Locherbie 1844 01/02 1f John d at Gatehouse 1886 11/02 4h Mary Herries m George Hogg at Crossmichael 1897 16/12 3g Samuel d at Glasserton 1891 12/03 3g HORNALL Henrietta d at Edinburgh 1844 19/09 1f HORNEL Catherine Thompson d at Kirkcudbright 1848 18/08 1f Mrs David of Antigua b a son at Kirkcudbright 1859 24/03 4e James elected councillor for Kirkcudbright 1850 14/11 4e Mrs James b twins at Kirkcudbright 1844 23/05 1f Jane d at Gatehouse 1876 18/05 4g John elected councillor for Kirkcudbright 1850 14/11 4e Samuel d at Kirkcudbright 1851 20/11 1f HORNELL David 13 years d at Glenluce 1867 18/07 4g James grocer d at Kirkcudbright 1846 30/04 1f James shoemaker 1863 19/11 1c Mrs John b a daughter at Creetown 1879 09/10 4h Margaret Heron d at Kirkcudbright 1850 08/13 1f Mary d at Kirkcudbright 1849 29/06 1f Maxwell m Margaret Halliday at Creetown 1846 08/01 1f Robert d at Kirkcudbright 1852 09/12 1f William d at Kirkcudbright 1853 19/05 4g William Lidderdale m Ann Habbishaw at Kirkcudbright 1854 06/04 1f Elizabeth 4 years d at Creetown 1886 20/05 4h James m Maggie Halliday at Creetown 1891 23/04 3g Janet McClymont m Robert Hannam at Whithorn 1894 05/07 3g James m Magdalene (Nina) Coltart at Glasgow 1894 20/12 3g Elizabeth Margaret m George Yound at Whithorn 1900 11/01 3g Grace Parker d at Creetown 1886 04/03 4h Mrs James b a son at Creetown 1892 30/06 3g Mrs James b a son at Creetown 1895 23/05 3g Jane d at Creebridge 1881 08/09 4h John bequests 1882 05/01 2f John infant d at Creetown 1884 10/04 4h John m Annie Kelly at Creetown 1888 12/01 4h Mrs John b a daughter at Creetown 1881 04/08 4h Mrs John b a son at Creetown 1883 01/11 4h Johnston trusts 1888 19/01 3d Maggie Bennet m Samuel Chisolm at Creetown 1901 31/01 3g Robert m Bella McCreadie at Barmeal 1892 12/05 3g Wilhelmina m Samuel McCalden at Glasgow 1893 22/12 3g I hope the reformatting for list transmission doesn't garble the table too much. I didn't have time for Volume 3 and didn't look at the HORNERs. If you have time in either Dumfries or Stranraer during your upcoming trip, you may want to check out some of these from filmed images of the actual Newspapers. Have a great trip, Bruce

Hello All Many thanks those of you who replied.. What I am most keen to try and do is find if my William HORNELL b 1805/6 in Ireland (later in Glenluce and Minnigaff) married to Janet MUIR is connected to the grandparents of Edward HORNEL  b1864 and his father William Lidderdale Hornel b 1822 and grandfather William Hornel b abt 1796 . Descendants currently living in Newton Stewart assured us there is a link but I am more than a little doubtful. WILLIAM2 HORNELL  (JAMES1HORNEL) was born Bet. 1805 - 1806 in County Down, Ireland, and died 26 May 1862 in Mill Entry, Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright, Scotland.  He married JANET MUIR 18 May 1826 in Presbyterian Church, Kircubbin, County Down, Ireland, daughter of JAMES MUIR and JANET MCCONNELL.  She was born 06 Jul 1804 in Sinniness, Glenluce, Wigtown, Scotland, and died 21 Aug 1873 in Blackcraig, Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright, Scotland. Children of WILLIAM HORNELL and JANET MUIR are: i.      JAMES3 HORNELL, b. Abt. 1827, Ireland; d.. Abt. 1882, Scotland. ii.     JEAN HORNELL, b. Abt. 1829, Donaghadee, Ireland; d. Aft. 1881. iii.    JOHN HORNELL, b. Abt. 1832, Ireland; d. 30 Mar 1903, York County, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. iv.   WILLIAM HORNEL, b. 10 Jun 1834, Sinniness, Glenluce, Wigtown, Scotland; d. 19 Jan 1910, Dumfries, Scotland. v.    ELIZABETH HORNAL, b. 21 Aug 1836, Culwhasen, Glenluce, Wigtown, Scotland; d. Aft. 1881. vi.   SAMUEL HORNEL, b. 18 Dec 1838, Challochmun, Glenluce, Wigtown, Scotland; d. 27 Feb 1891, Auchness, Glasserton, Wigtown, Scotland. vii.  ROBERT HORNAL, b. 25 Sep 1841, Sinniness, Glenluce, Wigtown, Scotland; d.. 03 Nov 1929, Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand. viii.RALPH A HORNAL, b. 04 Mar 1844, Sinniness, Glenluce, Wigtown, Scotland; d. 25 Apr 1913, Dunedin Hospital,  Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand. ix.   AGNES HORNAL, b. 02 Jul 1848, Knock, Glenluce, Wigtown, Scotland; d. Aft. 1871. We are once again visiting the UK in 2 weeks for a 2 month holiday. While we are not staying quite in the area this time we are meeting up with HORNELLs living there now. They seem to have little historical knowledge. Regards Jennifer

Hi Jennifer, The Wikipedia article has mistaken the birthplace of Edward Atkinson HORNELL. He was not born in New South Wales, but in the Victorian town of Bacchus Marsh. That’s good news, as the BDM records are better for Victoria. The 1871 census is consistent with the Wiki info that the family moved from Kirkcudbright to Australia in 1856 and returned to Kirkcudbright in 1866. It shows: Wm Lidderdale HORNELL 48 Kirkcudbright Annie E HABBISHAM 39 ENG Mary HORNELL 13 Kirkcudbright Elizabeth HORNELL 11 Australia, Victoria Janet HORNELL 8 Australia, Victoria William HORNELL 6 Australia, Victoria Edward A HORNELL 6 Australia, Victoria Grace C HORNELL 5 Australia, Victoria David HORNELL 10 Mo Kirkcudbright Annie (HABBISHAM) HORNER shows up in Kirkcudbright in 1881 with another daughter, Annie, 8 y/o, but no husband. She also shows up in Kirkcudbright in 1891 and 1901. She died 05 April 1906. William Lidderdale HORNELL died in Victoria, Australia, in 1879, age 57. His parents were William HORNER & Margaret HERON. Perhaps he was visiting family there. The Victorian indexes show that his brothers Samuel died there in 1887, age 55, and Charles Lidderdale died there in 1900, age 59. (Charles Lidderdale HORNELL married in Victoria in 1865.) William Lidderdale HORNELL and his father were boot and shoe makers. FreeCEN shows the family in 1841: Piece: SCT1841/871 Place: KIRKCUDBRIGHT -Kirkcudbrightshire Enumeration District: 2 Civil Parish: Kirkcudbright Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - Folio: 2 Page: 4 Address: High Street Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born HORNELL William M 40 Shoemaker Journeyman Kirkcudbrightshire HORNELL Margaret F 40 Kirkcudbrightshire HORNELL Janet F 15 Kirkcudbrightshire HORNELL Margaret F 12 Kirkcudbrightshire HORNELL Samuel M 9 Kirkcudbrightshire HORNELL Mary F 6 Kirkcudbrightshire HORNELL Alice F 4 Kirkcudbrightshire HORNELL Charles M 2m Kirkcudbrightshire William jnr was not present, but this seems certain to be William HORNELL & Margaret HERON. The 1851 census from D&G CIS online database shows William jnr with his father: Name: HORNELL , William Address: High Street(871) Parish: Kirkcudbright Relationship: head of household Marital Status: widower Occupation: BOOTMAKER/shoemaker Age: 53 Born: born Kirkcudbright K Household No: 2/26 Name: HORNELL , Elizabeth Relationship: daughter of William Hornell Marital Status: unmarried Occupation: Age: 28 Born: born Kirkcudbright K Name: HORNELL , William Relationship: son of William Hornell Marital Status: unmarried Occupation: BOOTMAKER Age: 26 Born: born Kirkcudbright K Name: HORNELL , Samuel Relationship: son of William Hornell Marital Status: unmarried Occupation: BOOTMAKER/boot closer Age: 19 Born: born Kirkcudbright K Name: HORNELL , Alice Relationship: daughter of William Hornell Marital Status: Occupation: Age: 14 Born: born Kirkcudbright K This all would indicate that your William HORNELL who married Janet MUIR had no close connection with William Lidderdale HORNELL. Of course, one cannot rule out a connection a couple of generations back. Regards, Bruce

Thank you to all who helped to clear up the location of these places. Betty

Hi Diana, Thanks for clearing up the Kirkstyle location. Although this doesn't relate to my family, my curiosity got the better of me so I spent some time trying to find where it was. No doubt, Betty will also be pleased to know. We'll have to go on wondering if the present day Viaduct Cottage is the same one which was on Stewart's Croft, but at least there's no doubt where Stewart's Croft was. Regards, Bruce

Dear listers, When you reply to a digest post, please remember to change the subject to something pertinent to that post. Ideally, copy and paste the poster's subject and preface it with Re:. Also, please remember to delete any text that isn't relevant, including all headers and footers. Don't forget -- every post is archived, and it's really hard to find a message whose subject is inaccurate, plus it's hard to read a message that's full of extraneous verbiage. Thanks to everyone for helping to keep our digests clean! Mary

Hello Has anyone researched Edward Atkinson Hornel born 11 Jul 1864 Australia died 30 Jun 1933 Kirkcudbright, Wigtonshire, Scotland Son of William Lidderdale Hornel b  Kirkcudbright, Wigtonshire and  Ann Elizabeth Habbishaw Grandson of William HORNEL b abt 1801 I would love to be able to work out if he is connected to: William Hornell abt 1805 Ireland - 26 May 1862 Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright,  Janet MUIR 06 Jul 1804 Sinniness, Glenluce,  - 21 Aug 1873 Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright, Regards Jennifer

Jennifer - The painter, as I recall, is descended of Kirkudbright burghers, a more prosperous lot than our William. References to Kirkudbright Hornells exist (in my records) back to 1634 (when a Hornell married a Maxwell and inherited property). I could find no connection between his (E.A. Hornel) family and William's - although Kirkudbright and Wigtown not THAT far apart and HORNELL (by whatever spelling) rather a rare name - for a Scot or any other race. Been trying to piece together the Hornells of SW Scotland. Another bunch brought forth David E. Hornell, F/L RCAF and, for a time, thought to hold the first VC awarded to a member of that service. Those (Canadian now) Hornells were from Dryfesdale and reportedly married people who invented scones! Then there are the English Hornells, one of whom chieftain Clans Lennox-Kincaid by way of Adm Sir Robert Hornell RN, aide to George Vl. Unlikely he and William's kin were members of the same mess. Then there are the Swedish Hornells, one of whom/which founded the city of Hornell, NY USA. Ecktually, they weren't Hornells at all but changed their name from Pairsen due to some Baltic criminal irregularities in 17th/18th Century. Let us not speak of Finnish Hornells, one of whom/which called me a few years ago in search of roots/relatives. Turns out HIS family changed their name to Hornell after fleeing Finland. If I were going to change my name, I'd probably never consider Hornell as a nom-de-choix. Whatever? Then there are the Texas Hornells (probably descended of the Dryfesdale bunch and related to David "Scottie" Hornell, killed in a Colorado saloon circa 1880). I DO hope your query on this site will bring forth answers to our missing links. Your cousin Dave (of the Adirondack Hornells - of which there remains but one) ----- Original Message ----- From: <sct-wigtownshire-request@rootsweb.com> To: <sct-wigtownshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 3:00 AM Subject: SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 72 > > > ******************************************************************************** > > When replying to a digest message, quote only the specific message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > ******************************************************************************** > > 11 Feb 2013 > All Wig list subscribers are in digest mode until list mode starts working again. > > ******************************************************************************** > > Today's Topics: > > 1. HORNELL/HORNEL Kirkcudbright (Jennifer and Grant Hudson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:03:06 +1200 (NZST) > From: Jennifer and Grant Hudson <jhudson@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: [WIG LIST] HORNELL/HORNEL Kirkcudbright > To: "SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com" <SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <1366776186.15718.YahooMailNeo@web96001.mail.aue.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hello > > Has anyone researched > Edward Atkinson Hornel > born 11 Jul 1864 Australia > > died 30 Jun 1933 Kirkcudbright, Wigtonshire, Scotland > > Son of > William Lidderdale Hornel b? Kirkcudbright, Wigtonshire and? Ann Elizabeth Habbishaw > Grandson of William HORNEL b abt 1801 > > I would love to be able to work out if he is connected to: > > William Hornell abt 1805 Ireland - 26 May 1862 Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright,? > Janet MUIR 06 Jul 1804 Sinniness, Glenluce,? - 21 Aug 1873 Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright, > > Regards > Jennifer > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE list administrator, send an email to > SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE mailing list, send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of SCT-WIGTOWNSHIRE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 72 > ***********************************************